log☇︎
70700+ entries in 0.488s
Framedragger: probably worth thinking about it more, it'd be quite a spiffy thing indeed... that said, i have a more general concern with time-sunk-cost-to-trb. i do wonder how realistic it is to expect a trb-i in the years to come. if it is, then working on shitty legacy trb codebase is opportunity cost par excellence :( ; but, maybe testing harness could be generic enough to be easily re-usable.
mircea_popescu: yeah a blockchain-and-mempool testing harness would be a mighty fine item to have.
Framedragger: this would require a decently thought out testing framework (i don't mean shitty-web-framework, just, a systematized approach)
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> signatures don't match, scripts are bad, inputs are bad, outputs are too long, on it goes << yeah, exactly. eventually coverage like this is a must. eventually.
asciilifeform: literally, 'material part', that is, of the immutable physical pieces of a problem.
mircea_popescu: but yes, it's not a novel thought by any means.
asciilifeform: we have a w0rd for it
mircea_popescu: mp goes hunting. if mp goes hunting without a rifle and bullets, mp has fucked up the tanks part of engineering. if mp goes hunting in unknown martian planet, ends up eaten by hunter-eater, mp has fucked up river part of engineering. if mp goes hunting in zoo, shoots english bobby through overpenetration, mp has fucked up tanks part of engineering. if mp goes hunting in hunting place and hunts quarry but misses his shot, tech
asciilifeform: how does aiming the rifle differ, other than timewise, from designing a house that you then build with own hands
asciilifeform: how does aiming the rifle differ from drawing up a house, other than time parameter ?
asciilifeform: but not 'i draw up a house and expect that the floor will hold my 48 pianos' ?
asciilifeform: well in the particular example given, failure would have become apparent within a millisecond or so
asciilifeform: the expectation is that the capacity of the reg is > the current drain. of the floor in a house > the pianos. etc
mircea_popescu: that's a pile alright.
asciilifeform: at no point did asciilifeform make a physical 'pile' to determine the correct answer, it was arrived at on paper, with pen
asciilifeform: why does he fail, if not from refusing to agree to a verifiable expectation of correct function ?
asciilifeform: shifting from a conceptual to a present 'this is the bridge you have, motherfuckers, drive' is dirty thinking.
asciilifeform: failure is not a defined concept absent expectations.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-08 18:29 mircea_popescu: which is why all the impudent cuntlets want to be "in a creative career" aka hallucinated non-science. if irresponsible activity bereft of verification, ie, the antithesis of science, then their imposture has some space
asciilifeform: engineering without expectations is not detectably different from taking a shit and other excretory exertions
mircea_popescu: well, i said it's not even a bad idea back then.
mircea_popescu: prolly but that's finnickyer. unless of course we bother to create 3rd item here, which would be a test chain.
mircea_popescu: it means you feed a trb to be tested randomly generated "txn"
ben_vulpes: if afl is not a lurking piece of garbage, plugging trb into that might yield some interesting strange.
mircea_popescu: prolly should churn the chain as a test yeh. also a tx fuzzer would be great in general.
ben_vulpes: (well, not entirely baseless, i've put a modicum of thought into the topic and have been pricing a new box to boot)
ben_vulpes: probably could be done on a machine costing ~2btc/yr
ben_vulpes: i went so far as to set up a solipsistic test net before bumping into the dumb-as-rocks "needs 2 nodes in order to mine" shit
mod6: ben_vulpes' is making some super cool v automated tests as well. there is a bit of overlap, but perhaps one day, his will become the defacto-standard tests. mine are a bit brittle to say the least.
mircea_popescu: that's a degree of magnitude.
mircea_popescu: also wtf are they on about, 3600 bitcoin mined a day, 10-15k traded a day (on fiatola outlets), 30-50k total.
ben_vulpes: to jump over to mod6's thread for half a second, both he and i have our own suite of automated tests
ben_vulpes: "daily trade volume is only a small volume of total bitcoin mined"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was attempting a nonretarded trb-fs.
mircea_popescu: ahahahaha. so in further "everyone in sweden is just asking to be raped with a toilet plunger", nobel prize for literature -> bob dylan.
asciilifeform: however ! looks like we ~do~ have a fixed-size element: the script.
asciilifeform: pruning ain't a thing
mircea_popescu: it mostly wipes a large script bs.
mircea_popescu: nah. though a 999kb one existed.
asciilifeform: massive as in, most of a block ?
mircea_popescu: ~profoundly retarded~ has a meaning.
phf: possibly proper adatron solution would be to allocate a block and use it as operational space too
asciilifeform: and it is possible to compute a mintx.
phf: everything's limited by how much you can stuff into a block
asciilifeform: ( for a certain purpose i need to calculate the max bytefootprint of a tx )
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, i have combed trb src for a cap on tx input and output maxima, and found none
mircea_popescu: oh. a riding fucker.
mircea_popescu: a common cage
asciilifeform: if 'at least', the degenerate case wins, i can qualify a block as the successor to itself
mircea_popescu: this alone puts a large kaibosh on shitty mining.
mircea_popescu: this is a fundamental and inescapable problem of usg-style hash functions. stuff like mpfhf mitigate THAT problem, but at a humongous cost.
mircea_popescu: the largest problem being that as difficulty increases, it becomes more and more feasible to simply seek a hash, in comparative terms. considering the disproportion of effect (one gives you a 1/2/2/2/2/2 of 50 btc, the other fucks up the toy entirely) it's a virtual certainty that eventually it will be economically reasonable to divert resources from mining to this hash colliding.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the obvious interesting sequel to the q, is what would be the first symptom of a colliding pair of tx having been fired.
mircea_popescu: tis been in the logs a few tiems.
mircea_popescu: which explains a lot of things includingthe miner/node bug
mircea_popescu: i don't think at the time he did this he had a very clear idea of the mempool / blockchain tx disjunction.
asciilifeform: given that a tx is >256bits long, these pair necessarily exist.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: all you need is an x, y, x!=y, where sha256(sha256(x))==sha256(sha256(y)), and x is a valid tx
phf: (searching through a particular press doesn't work yet)
mircea_popescu: in principle it should not be possible to collide a tx.
phf: there's also a search function that lets you search through patchset, and it shows ~first appearance~ of particular string with corresponding file/vpatch
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, didja ever calculate what would happen to trb (or for that matter prb) if one were to produce a colliding txid ?
phf: ok, so experimental features on btcbase is that in memory presser now works. each patch has a "tree" link, that shows you a list of files (ones that are explicitly touched by the patch are marked as "modified"), and can look at each individual file
mircea_popescu: but from a management perspective, it makes you write < 1k lines code 3x as slow and > 10k lines code 3x as fast.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ci as such is not even a bad idea. compile and run pile of tests frequently, an expansion of "save whenever you stop typing"
asciilifeform: seems like a shit idea tho. 'oops there isn't a trb running on dulap, because ooops i broke the build'
Framedragger: guess that's a *good* sign
asciilifeform: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170311/#873 << lemme guess, a 'bashop' is a bishop who is handy with bash ?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: where thing builds software and runs it tests every time a change is made. i assume you know his and are therefore asking rhetorically tho
phf: yeah, i know, i broke a deploy
Framedragger: just a feeling.
mircea_popescu: phf not a bad heuristic, except for the part where 30odd yo is kinda too old to work for a salary just like 20something yo is kinda too old to "work in pr" / http://trilema.com/2010/bani-pentru-piariste/
ben_vulpes: last few times i cracked a pyject, elpy and python-mode and friends proved...resistant to providing utility
phf: that's another reason, why i don't for example, "hack my python with vim like a real hacker". give me the filthiest, most feature rich IDE, where i can just push spacebar to get half of my scaffolding, or whatever kids these days ☟︎
phf: in my experience places that have oracle tend to pay best rates, and paraphrasing http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592046 when choosing a zaibatsu to pledge allegiance, choose the one that pays the most ☝︎
ben_vulpes: "hey boss, this looks like something written to suck devs into paying a consulting company to fix bugs in their own software, shall we introduce it as a dependency in our stack?"
ben_vulpes: time-cost of audit impossible to estimate at least, and if so and security is a concern, why bother.
ben_vulpes: time would be better spent curating a tumblr full of naked girls and american muscle
a111: Logged on 2016-05-15 15:56 mod6: what i also want to build is a CI thingy for trb
ben_vulpes: "can you give us a tldr, kiddo?" "NO TLDRS ARE FOR FAGGOTS SIX MONTHS STARTS YESTERDAY"
ben_vulpes: heh now i'm imagining a research report which is just a link to log line
Framedragger: @all thanks to this chat i'll now make some urgent recommendations to startup i'm involved with. maybe it's not even gonna be fucked in the ass if moves decisively away. a bit ashamed i had $opinion on $thing-not-researched in the first place. ☟︎
trinque: understand the only thing it exists is so some faggot at a web startup can make his makework job even more complicated so he can hide the fact (mostly from himself) ~that he produces nothing, and is nothing~
trinque: within a few inches of the left side of the bottom case
mircea_popescu: prolly worth a vlog
ben_vulpes: nor is it a computer!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you don't have a mains failure alarm ?!
asciilifeform: if i find that a piece of iron behaves nondeterministically in whatever way (purpose-built rngs aside) -- i throw it out.
ben_vulpes: eh you have a ups in play as well
asciilifeform: this is the elementary, 0th thing required of a comp.
ben_vulpes: bezosnet is a far more capable docker than docker ever will be.
ben_vulpes: yeah the thing approximately works as an uptime monitor for impoverished ustards running 20 side projects on a single aws t1.micro
Framedragger: (spoiler, wow it's a pos)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes otherwise it'd be a little lulzy, what, dude stuffs girl in van, rapes her, it's now his through the magic of fuckjuice ?
mircea_popescu: that's a little rich.
ben_vulpes: kinda surprised to not see a gf lending metaphor from mircea_popescu
trinque: really it's a reaction to poverty, "lala no I really can't hear my neighbor taking a shit"
a111: Logged on 2017-03-06 16:26 shinohai: https://arxiv.org/abs/1702.08719 " we extract 96% of an RSA private key from a single trace."
Framedragger: trinque: asciilifeform: i concede your point lol. (last good one re cache was just a few days ago, too http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-06#1622509 ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: Framedragger: 'isolation' in the sense you picture it, would be a useful thing if it actually worked. items like, e.g., vmware, come close, but still no cigar (you can leak bits via cache skulduggery, as discussed every six months or so in the log for past 3+ yrs, and various other ways)