log☇︎
6500+ entries in 0.126s
diana_coman: well, that doesn't have the scripts too, does it?
diana_coman: sorry, the ref to previous mess wasn't quite clear, you're right
diana_coman: coming back to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895807 aka http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1esL2/?raw=true if it converges, it seems to be diff on diff machines+diff gnat; I might note also ftr that the times there on very short runs (i.e. a few loops) are not reliable ; other than that though, so far with this test there doesn't seem to be much penalty on having sjlj ☝︎
diana_coman: yes and moreover weirdly enough it DOES have the correct one too, but it comes only after the wrong/old one and so it fails 'cause it can't find that
diana_coman: I'm trying to rebuild it because current build doesn't have sjlj
diana_coman: t shows that it is looking for them in the wrong place and more specifically in the place where they were on the previous system where the working gnat was built! so hm, where and why does it store that path and how do I point it correctly?
diana_coman: ave1 or anyone else more experienced in rebuilding ave1's gnat with a previous incarnation of same: I'm trying to build using the scripts in ada-musl-cross-2018-09-24.tgz on a machine that has as only existing and perfectly working !) gnat a previous ave1 gnat version; I ran as the readme says simply ./build-ada.sh absolute_path_to_dir but the whole thing fails because it doesn't find some libs such as libgmp.la; a closer look at the outpu
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, hard to say from here what seekrits she handed over that they don't want to print. Hence the focus on Facebook tardism.
asciilifeform spend yrs in the unfortunate company of erry known species of usgtard , and came to conclusion that the principal 'limiting reactant' for defections is... they ain't got where to. ~nobody outside the amerigulag needs ~any of'em for anyffin.
asciilifeform: 'Facebook, Twitter and Google are actively restricting conservative content through biased algorithms. Silicon Valley doesn't want you to read our articles. Bypass the censorship, sign up for our newsletter now!' << BingoBoingo write'em a mail ? ☟︎
asciilifeform doesn't like benchmarks where 1 shot takes moar than coupla min, for the reason that unix box is a shitfest, liable to decide 'hey nao is the time to munge the fs' etc. and suddenly eat cpu for multiple min, whenever
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally and unrelatedly, since i'm fixing this other article : do you happen to recall the trilema piece where "middle age crisis" ie, dood getting rid of older wife hooking up with younger girl is explained in terms of "well, she won't be as fucking annoying" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically, we found i can't math ; that aside, we found that in one context serpent takes ~3us, and in another ~0.3us.
diana_coman: can't quite tell tbh
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, somehow it ain't easy to compute
mircea_popescu: might've been http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-02#1002258 dork, but i can't fucking find no trace of it. ☝︎
asciilifeform: or 'fuck no you won't find' ~= хуй найдешь
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking about it -- 'zxc' strikes me as a classic case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866191 and impedence mismatch generally. it was clearly written as attempt to 'deterministic scheduler on ??? iron/os', but fails, cuz you can't actually spackle away impedence mismatch b/w the underlying platform and the proggy ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 23:03 bvt: asciilifeform: sure, cpp code won't be instrumented. the 'polled' mode was iirc in the guts of the ancient linux threads implementation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't specifically know, but suspect that the eggog happens when parent thread dies and (for moment) the children keep fandangoing
mircea_popescu: it doesn't seem so.
asciilifeform: imho zcx isn't actually of use on the current gnat, at all
mircea_popescu: if there's a mechanism in computing that's supposed to be push not pull, that's exceptions. can't fucking have a pull mechanism for exception handling, and i see 0 gaisn from moving the honest braindamage of "if ZCX_By_Default then return;" into an elaborately & contrivedly hidden same exact thing.
asciilifeform: a linear process can still be heavy enuff (e.g. a 8192-bit primality test on ffa) that you wouldn't want to wait for it to finish when killing a thread
bvt: it won't we poll-killable if the whole loop is in cpp/asm. if just a linear code - should not be too bad; sjlj should still work better.
asciilifeform: if you have cppola ( or even, e.g., an asm-enhanced ffa ) in yer loop, it won't be poll-killable.
bvt: asciilifeform: sure, cpp code won't be instrumented. the 'polled' mode was iirc in the guts of the ancient linux threads implementation. ☟︎
bvt: may be. tbh i don't think i can reason on this q based on only the test code.
bvt: you can enable polling per scope/loop, don't have to do it globally. re cpp things - true.
asciilifeform: not to mention, the s.mg folx invoke external cppisms , and these won't have poll markers inside'em no matter what you do
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: couldja plox add the billing calendar (with the hash-pseudonymised subscriber names from earlier) to the public www ? so folx dun have to ask why they're being billed at time t and for what << We have customer accounts here on the public www http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-records/ listed just below the price points. I have been updating it as part of compiling the statements. I don't recall if I pass out
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: couldja plox add the billing calendar (with the hash-pseudonymised subscriber names from earlier) to the public www ? so folx dun have to ask why they're being billed at time t and for what
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ffacalc fwiw builds an' runs on crapple, but only in 'debug' (misnomer, you can't actually debug..) mode
asciilifeform: gdb, for instance, doesn't.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 14:13 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895234 << ffa uses exceptions strictly as 'fucking stop whole program (and if it's running on a micro, whole machine, and flash 'dead!' lamp) right nao!' , so won't impact. my understanding is that it'd impact only speed of the ~exceptions~, longjump is slower cuz it crosses pages -- cachaistically.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that was just the 3 loops (a,b,c); over 1000 runs, the avg were similar with and without longjmp i.e. 0.46744 without and 0.46754 with longjmp; atm running the full version aka a-v and that hasn't yet finished
asciilifeform: ( fwiw i (and other ru warez folk) like ancient at&t 'djvu' format, it is moar or less jpeg with optional ocr searchable track. a 300MB pdf turd becomes a 2-3MB djvu. )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895198 << btw diana_coman , if you know of other readables , plox to post (or at least the titles, i can dig up with own hands ) ; i oughta have posted burnes et al earlier, but seems like errybody is allergic to scans , so didn't hurry . and lemme know if you end up wanting others, i have the 'spark' text for instance. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-06-22 21:22 mircea_popescu: ascii_field this goes right into our discussion about how the only reason lisp is ok where c is shot is that the hordes haven't sat on lisp but on c, would have been the other way around if they had sat the other way.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how's it to have timeout if it doesn't know time ?
asciilifeform: hrm i can't actually think of a periph that 'wants to know time'
mircea_popescu: which is either ada or isn't.
mircea_popescu: but in any case one can't have an ada machine without working abort (which specifically means, NOT import the c consrtruct, cuz wtf am i gonna do.)
mircea_popescu: seems to me self-evident that there's need for exactly two layers of exception handler : a) our code fucked up, in which case end it all or else b) some ~item~ such as whatever, a fg fucked up, in which case REPORT THIS TO ME, don't wait for it forever./
mircea_popescu: diana_coman in ~principle~ zero cost exception handling is this thing : ~instead~ of calling code when exceptions arise, you instead unroll all calls in place, where exceptions might arise. this way you don't get a run-time penalty (because you paid for it in code space)
diana_coman: that one might not care about that or the other maybe but that doesn't mean it dun' exist now
diana_coman: but put_line doesn't block, no?
asciilifeform: the 1 thing that you can't async-stop in the zxc model, looks like, is a straight loop with no i/o
mircea_popescu: problem is you can't put a delay 0 ~inside~ the only thing we fear, which is unix peripheral calls.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 13:18 bvt: i expect it will be slower, but it won't hurt to do the check. the impact will depend on how exceptions are used (i don't think it can have any impact on ffa, for example). but i don't have enough experience with it to provide any numbers
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895234 << ffa uses exceptions strictly as 'fucking stop whole program (and if it's running on a micro, whole machine, and flash 'dead!' lamp) right nao!' , so won't impact. my understanding is that it'd impact only speed of the ~exceptions~, longjump is slower cuz it crosses pages -- cachaistically. ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: fucking lulz of all time. zcx : zero cost exceptions!!! it's like the zero cost restaurant : you don't have to pay anything and htey don't give you any food.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 13:03 diana_coman: bvt's investigation of my ada-won-t-stop test program: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sRqWV/?raw=true
diana_coman: I don't quite get the branches and iterators aka what exactly do you want in there?
diana_coman: nope, pragma abort_defer doesn't help (it has to be outside loop because it's not accepted anywhere other than immediately after begin and program is stuck just the same)
mircea_popescu: of course, that's when they moved to unicode. but if memory serves, dwarf2 was kinda braindamaged in some corner cases i now don't recall.
diana_coman: I read a bit on that and it seems to me that it is meant to actually add ANOTHER "won't abort here" point so I don't quite see it; but yes, I'll try it anyway
diana_coman: myeah, sjlj is going to be slower; onth now I don't quite get it WHY is ZCX not able to support async abort
mircea_popescu: just, i don't think it can be whipped into a workable exception handling mechanism.
mircea_popescu: but yes, it can't hurt anything to run it once see what happens.
diana_coman goes to test with --RTS=sjlj, can't hurt
bvt: i expect it will be slower, but it won't hurt to do the check. the impact will depend on how exceptions are used (i don't think it can have any impact on ffa, for example). but i don't have enough experience with it to provide any numbers ☟︎
mircea_popescu: wasn't the long jump thing slower ~generally~ ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: right. besideswhich we can't go about inserting random numbers in code now.
diana_coman: but ftr when a task is not in this sort of "can't hear you la la", there's no need for any wait, no
diana_coman: bvt's investigation of my ada-won-t-stop test program: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sRqWV/?raw=true ☟︎
diana_coman: hm, asciilifeform from what I see at a quick glance in that s-taprop-linux__adb it actually calls pthread_kill ONLY if "abort_handler_installed" and that in turn seems set only if not some default state ? might be a clue to follow perhaps, I haven't dug much deeper yet
phf: if any log reader is getting a 404 not found, even if intermittent, please let me know. i was just getting it for a couple of minutes, but i can't figure out if that's the actual situation on the machine or some russian dns problem
a111: Logged on 2019-02-11 03:56 trinque: if it's the case that he left it as an external usb disk, looks like kernel didn't know the disk was there, so the kernel he builds would have to know of the usb chip he has.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1895003 << re: So I didn't ever use a USB boot disk, I actually was just using the Live CD to do the chrooting/troubleshooting. But I did the `./bootstrap.sh` from the working gentoo environment. ☝︎
BingoBoingo: Notice I didn't use the Pantsuit term. If anything we ought to preserve 'deadnaming' in our namespace for characters like bitcoin_charlie, Nefario, Taaki, Toomim, et al. Actual dead names whether or not the corresponding meat recieves oxygen.
asciilifeform: supposedly didn't even splat. coupla would-be imitators (as late as 18th) did, tho
mircea_popescu: white man also didn't build straw & cardbox airplanes.
trinque: but even if the kernel knew it was there, if that disk wasn't "sda", nah, wouldn't work. this didn't stick out at me because "bootstrapper" grew out of my own tooling for stamping out an internal boot disk for new machine.
trinque: if it's the case that he left it as an external usb disk, looks like kernel didn't know the disk was there, so the kernel he builds would have to know of the usb chip he has. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: well then of fucking course it can't find a sda3 that doesn't exist, he needs sda2 or w/e ?
mircea_popescu: trinque is it actually the case that cuntoo can't boot off a non-first drive ? if so easy enough to check.
mircea_popescu: people HERE fcuking love it. bought an armful of roses few days ago, dood selling it was like "that's a great hat, mr! say, when you're done with it, don't throw it out, throw it at me, i'd love to have it."
asciilifeform: it is clear that barclay didn't know a word of orig de !!
asciilifeform: and the 'translation' -- ain't
mircea_popescu: check out that horror, <div class="exampleblock"> <div class="content"> <div class="dlist"> <dl> <dt class="hdlist1">. and of course i can't use #hdlist1 because all comments are hdlist1.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 20:51 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894713 << i specifically don't even WANT the "rich media" / dvds / epubs / pdfs / whatever bullshit. i don't even want their pagelong blathers about how all-important inca is or whatever shit.
trinque: at any rate, don't trash your computer just yet!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo defo you don't want to chunk up the dc payments
BingoBoingo: jurov: My disinclination to committing to splitting chunks and putting them all up for auction here comes from those times the local liquidity is more generous than the grizzled veterans bidding here. For the two reasons of prudence with Pizarro's capital and the cause of continuing to spread Bitcoin's corruption... the local market can't be ignored.
mircea_popescu: risky enough. dood who failed to bid when he was supposed to is much less likely to go "oh, this high invoice is what i deserve for my failure" and rather "o no, bill too high, won't pay [nevermind that i made it too high by being deliberately stupid, that shouldn't count, nobody should ever have to do anything]"
a111: Logged on 2019-01-14 03:53 mircea_popescu: in other arcana : i have here a copy of trb that has died a mysterious death on dec 31st. the process itself hasn't returned, ps aux lists it as expected, however the last time it touched any files was two weeks ago, nor does a call to getinfo ever return.
mircea_popescu: fail that, even something as vague as "on particularly this-and-so hw mix this thing fails in a manner i can't fucking understand" is better than nothing, witness eg http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886738 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: so either write the blog article or don't ; but in any case be like "yo trinque, the problem's X, reproducible through Y, approach a dun work because q happens, approach b dun work because w happens, wut do ?"
mircea_popescu: but if these aren't structured in the manner where they're useful... unsurprisingly enough, they can't be used.
mircea_popescu: mod6 no man, the difference ain't that one's topic is ada and the other's topic is cuntoo. the difference is that she said "here's the top level problem, here's the list of possible solutions, here's the failure mode of each, let me know if either the list's missing an item or wtf." ; you said "here's an error message pasted and i've been having problems".
trinque: you're evaluating things towards the purpose of avoiding negative reflection upon you, rather than from the cause of your circumstances. thus when I ask you what was on your workbench when http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894746 happened, you either don't know or shy away from saying. ☝︎
mod6: Well, it seemed to me there was a pretty lengthy conversation about Ada threading issues over the last two days, I didn't want to make my problems (with a possible questionable box) the center of attention for everyone.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 20:00 mod6: Well, during the information gathering of my blog post, I went to boot back into my never-has-failed me Gentoo installation on my 500Gb SSD. And now I'm getting: "Welcome to GRUB! \n error no such device: e45d853f-... \n error: unknown filesystem \n Entering rescue mode... \n grub rescue>" which doesn't let me boot by selecting: linux (hd0,1)/<kernel_name> root=(hd0,3) \n boot different than the normal gr
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 20:54 mod6: trinque: what do you mean by 'angular'? If you mean, why so terse? Because I don't want to flood #t with a ton of information, as I'm afraid I'll also leave something out.
mircea_popescu: it very well fucking is not. it's not even remotely as important. having usg.cmu or usg.anything-else spew on actual literature is nothing short of vandalism. i don't want their grafitti, and i don't care why they think they're owed it.
trinque: I'm certain the cuntoo script is *not done* which is why I'm having folks test it, but I want more out of these tests than "ow, it wasn't a debian installer"
mod6: I've conducted quite a bit of work over these last 10 days, and I know mod6 seems like a "n00b" and "doesn't know what he's doing", but I have managed to install gentoo quite a few times since '15. But yeah, always learning.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 18:11 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893756 -> this makes in fact a lot of sense esp given asciilifeform's observation that indeed, that's an unrecoverable error state; so this sounds good: if child task doesn't die when aborted then kill self (taking the task with self too ofc); I'll experiment with this but afaik so far it should work