log☇︎
53300+ entries in 0.391s
spyked: mircea_popescu, yeha, but maths ppl I read/talked to "by convenience" define prime as "a number greater than 1 which is divisible ..." the reason escapes me. and as usual, online sources are shit.
mircea_popescu: spyked "a prime number is one which is divisible by only itself and the meter".
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 19:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, the above example of "alt-addition" is mostly based on the happenstance that in base 10, the set of digits that are also prime is {1,2, 3, 5, 7} and the set of digits that are not prime is {0, 4, 6, 8, 9} ie it just so happens to be a perfectly balanced split.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716177 <-- why 1? don't want to start a debate on that. dunno if debate was ever settled by mathematicians, but I learned in school that primes are strictly > 1 ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( really a lengthy .txt , but can be formatted however wanted )
mircea_popescu: with the perhaps eventual result of actually producing a well grounded numeric-theoretic notion of what alf wanted, ie a fucking hash already
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been thinking about sending ffa , when finished, as an article into the saecular derps' 'cryptology journals', strictly for the lulz of getting their reject barf , and then posting, a la al schwartz
mircea_popescu: can come up with a few mp-extended additions of your own, and for that money even formulate a general theory of addition extension in this sense,
spyked: will have to work out a few more examples on paper.
mircea_popescu: they're not expensive either, two for a benjie or somesuch
asciilifeform: hilariously, asciilifeform has a 'romeo&juliet' cigar tube from 1970s
mircea_popescu: and in other ways and means, i just bought a pile of primo cigars, presidents and romeo y juliets and whatnot at this... cathouse, basically. ☟︎
asciilifeform: 2 ain't a real prime!1111!wasjustputtherebythegodstofuckus
asciilifeform: it ain't as if you're ever getting a prime from prime+prime, tho
mircea_popescu: anyway, the above example of "alt-addition" is mostly based on the happenstance that in base 10, the set of digits that are also prime is {1,2, 3, 5, 7} and the set of digits that are not prime is {0, 4, 6, 8, 9} ie it just so happens to be a perfectly balanced split. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 19:19 ben_vulpes: and as the keccacteams mention, little incentive for cryptoacademia to formalize how ARXceteras might fall over. hard work with little guarantee of payout apparently terrible strategy in a world of publishorperish + everyone pretends to ignore that none of the academics ever bothered to do the hard work of an actual ffa, preferring instead cheap outs like leaky tables
asciilifeform: it's a triviality: if you have 1 , you can make the other out of it with ~no effort
asciilifeform: incidentally iirc we did the proof of 'if there is a good hash, there is a good blockcipher, and vice-versa' ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: does it even work in a ring
mircea_popescu: i was not proceding towards a purpose! but it is worth pointing out that the addition understood in terms of "sum+bit diddle" can readily be extended ; and probably should be.
asciilifeform: i'd prefer a macroscale numbertheoretical hash, even one that explicitly stands on strength of, e.g., rsa, to the currently extant soup.
asciilifeform: then it'll be a table
asciilifeform: and incidentally i dun have a nonleaking miller-rabin yet, need nonleaking gcd ( have on paper, but not in ffa yet ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: anything involving 'isprime()' during everyday life is either a table lookup (leaks!) or miller-rabin (slow as fuck, temptation to cut iterations and introduce eggog)
mircea_popescu: addition is "and you flip a bit if and only if the digits overflow the mod", but this is historical accident.
mircea_popescu: there's a whole class of generalizations that can be done in this same vein.
mircea_popescu: consider something like mp's generalized addition : the sum of two numbers flips a bit if and only if one of them is prime.
mircea_popescu: while the carry property of addition is cryptographically valuable, it'd be better to use a general transform with bit coda instead.
ben_vulpes: and as the keccacteams mention, little incentive for cryptoacademia to formalize how ARXceteras might fall over. hard work with little guarantee of payout apparently terrible strategy in a world of publishorperish + everyone pretends to ignore that none of the academics ever bothered to do the hard work of an actual ffa, preferring instead cheap outs like leaky tables ☟︎
asciilifeform: and imho there is a serious problem with 'not ARX' in linked piece : omitting additions makes the hash ~considerably~ nsa-friendlier : it is easier to implement xor/and/not/shift on, e.g., optical computer, when you don't need addition (and ergo carries)
asciilifeform: bonus lul: https://archive.is/tK1o1 << list of public catastrophic bugs in bigint libs . bonus-2 : compiled by the perpetrators of mit's attempt at faux-ffa ( won't link separately, it's a megalith of mechanical 'proof' crapolade )
asciilifeform: ( ...handwaves!1!11!... ) this sums to a potential 25% saving of clock , if finessed.
asciilifeform: there are a total of Bitness * DividendWordness cycles , in this example 64*128 == 8192
asciilifeform: ( the 'corrector' at the end of barrett will have to go through a mux, and fire a fixed # of times, and gotta prove that this-many and no-greater suffices. )
asciilifeform: ^ no barrett yet. and there is still room for polish in barrettless variant, there is still a great deal of avoidable shifting and subtraction of guaranteed-empty words in FZ_Mod ( exercise for alert reader, to see where ! )
jhvh1: shinohai: Error: "~" is not a valid command.
shinohai: !~later tell lobbes You're gonna hafta to tell me the story of this one over a beer one day. [~]D
mircea_popescu: yes "anticolonialism" was bullshit, but not because it destroyed a supposed rational approach of the colonisers. it was bullshit because it exactly mirrored "civil rights" at home, ie was driven by INTERnationalistic, socialist elite-wannabes.
BingoBoingo: lol, a "part of evolution": https://archive.is/jP8gb
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-9-14#205675 << i have a line open to "UESTC" in chengdu, i'll keep y'all in the loop
ben_vulpes: "i'm cultured, i had a stool transplant!"
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 02:47 mircea_popescu: soo, given the "cultured milk" yoghurt bs these days, i wonder what % of us population's entire exposure to that concept is in that context, and as a result has come to believe "cultured" means you know, you've had some germs injected or something.
BingoBoingo: Don't be a murderer, Don't be fat bob
BingoBoingo: Anyway, that was all a fucking setup. Look at the real link aggregation site: https://voat.co/v/Conspiracy/2140102
mircea_popescu: i have this friend (ie, chick that was dating hotter guys than me in highschool and never sat with me in cafeteria) that's (((being))) a real estate agent except she's not closed on anything since 2015. it'd REALLY make my day if I could introduce her to some beta trading in their govt issued paycheck for a govt issued house certificate.
mircea_popescu: would you like to buy a house together ?
mircea_popescu: it's basic, good thinking such as this that saves elections, i'll have you know. goood thing hilarity still has a chance!
BingoBoingo: Completely neglecting the whole point of... A couple catholics burried their bishops in little boys and news pushes it decades later
mircea_popescu: what's a hrc ? teh pantsuited hilarity ?
BingoBoingo: "that's barely English, and the only reason "pantsuit" is in there is because of a high correlation with "liberal" thanks to HRC."
BingoBoingo: Apparently since https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/716tmr/its_been_nearly_a_week_since_seattles_mayor_quit/dn8rarr/
mircea_popescu: soo, given the "cultured milk" yoghurt bs these days, i wonder what % of us population's entire exposure to that concept is in that context, and as a result has come to believe "cultured" means you know, you've had some germs injected or something. ☟︎
asciilifeform: google trans or similar with a small bit of manual delousing (or perhaps not even)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1715990 << on second thought, this is prominently not true in... FUCKGOATS ( just as every other rs232 device, it must be connected to a machine that knows what to do with 8bit byte and NEVER pads it to any other size with nulls or otherwise ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 01:35 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715948 << i suspect that was the original idea of pointers. "you want to insert X between A and B in AB memory ? NO PROBLEM! make A point to X instead of B and X to B itself AND IT IS DONE! MAGICALLY!"
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 01:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715929 << and yet nano can handle tb. it'll take a while to bring it up, but it will. insertions np, seek-next back and forth np, whole line deletions etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 22:15 phf: it would be interesting to try and design architecture where you have an insert operation on a memory region (cons and lisp machines is kind of it, but that's done by sidestepping the issue; i'm talking a traditional von neumann machine)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715948 << i suspect that was the original idea of pointers. "you want to insert X between A and B in AB memory ? NO PROBLEM! make A point to X instead of B and X to B itself AND IT IS DONE! MAGICALLY!" ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:51 phf: additional point is that traditionally when someone said "multi-gb" what was really meant is "file bigger than can fit in memory", and suddenly(!11) your whole underlying editor algorithm changes drastically, because you have be doing partial updates, and temp files, and all kinds of cut-and-paste trickery. that's why emacs has a special cased "big file" support. with ropes if you want to achieve multi-gb that way you basically have to
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715929 << and yet nano can handle tb. it'll take a while to bring it up, but it will. insertions np, seek-next back and forth np, whole line deletions etc. ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: also, the splitting must be a view (ie, toggleable).
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:39 phf: i've actually tried putting ropes in a bunch of projects and they never have good performance characteristics. in fact for text editors no one has invented anything better than "one string per one line", and if you want to be fancy you split it at point (what emacs does)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715903 << interestingly, same here. is there a known-good application of the rope ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:30 phf: i don't know why you explain to me things that ~i argued in the past~. fwiw, i argued "utf-8 is a whole spittoon" back when the question of encoding first came up, to somewhat fierce opposition
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's fine on some platforms. i think we might be like the only people who even touched such a platform this decade.
mircea_popescu: there is ~no benefit in maintaining a "quarter byte" antiquated notion, this isn't the museum of Z80 computing science.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715881 << here's an alt take on this : the problem comes from having the notion of byte be anything else but bus width. if 64 bit machines natively worked on 64 bit bytes, all the message fucktification bs known as unicode would be significantly less of a conversation issue. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:04 phf: i was trying to be ~polite~. if you put "10 years of unix" on your resume, i sort of assume "tell me your favorite editor and then ssh into the box for interview" is a bushido level of politeness
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 21:02 phf: same thread as a guy who freaked the fuck out, because i told him to ssh into a box for the interview
mircea_popescu: "who the fuck designs a p2p network like this ?" "hey, thank your lucky stars he didn't build it out of wxwidgets"
BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/716tmr/its_been_nearly_a_week_since_seattles_mayor_quit/ lol
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 22:15 phf: it would be interesting to try and design architecture where you have an insert operation on a memory region (cons and lisp machines is kind of it, but that's done by sidestepping the issue; i'm talking a traditional von neumann machine)
phf: it would eliminate the need for a very large number of data structures
phf: it would be interesting to try and design architecture where you have an insert operation on a memory region (cons and lisp machines is kind of it, but that's done by sidestepping the issue; i'm talking a traditional von neumann machine) ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ( btw i always found it interesting that the unix authors never saw it fit to include a binary equivalent for diff/patch . but iirc we had this thread. )
asciilifeform: dun think i've ever done one for a >coupleaMB bin tho
asciilifeform: i typically write a perlism for those, with a seek()
phf: hand patching binary blobs before you write a tool for it, traditionally
barpub: memory should cache disk, implying the filesystem rep should also, yes, be a rope
phf: and yes you have to use mmap, but that's not the end of the story by a long shot
asciilifeform: barpub: actually i've been having a pretty good time avoiding pointerism in, e.g., ffa, on ordinary pc
phf: make your ropes persist on disk, and then have a single pass that build ropes out of the complete contents of file (which you already have to do), and then you offload rope subtree that doesn't fit in memory, and then you edit the whole monster by swapping rope subtrees in and out, and FINALLY you have to walk the whole rope structure, file and memory alike, to serialize it back into file
phf: additional point is that traditionally when someone said "multi-gb" what was really meant is "file bigger than can fit in memory", and suddenly(!11) your whole underlying editor algorithm changes drastically, because you have be doing partial updates, and temp files, and all kinds of cut-and-paste trickery. that's why emacs has a special cased "big file" support. with ropes if you want to achieve multi-gb that way you basically have to ☟︎
barpub: is a reasonable prerequisite to having nice things, like ropes, and variable-length encoding
asciilifeform: i'll take that as a yes then
asciilifeform: incidentally anybody who really yearns for 'ropes', can approximate the effect on his box right now: go and directly edit a gzipped text...
barpub: and robustness is a cogent and reasonable objection to using them
barpub: it's the only example of a rope i've actual experience with
asciilifeform: if i were to randomly flip a bit in a bitstring representing roped text, it will quite possibly turn it to liquishit. if i do the same to normal string, you have 1 bad char in 1 particular place.
barpub: if there was a structure editor whose structures include free text, and one whose structures do not, i would pick the former
phf: barpub: nah, real structure editor doesn't. but then i've no idea what asciilifeform is talking about. there's not really any real structure editors in production. i know of a dead one, and it's an interlisp programming environment
barpub: in which case the ast is just a rope and has no further semantics
barpub: agreed, but even a structure editor has, or should have, a prose mode
asciilifeform: ... and if you've decided to 'be fancy', go the whole hog and write a structure editor
phf: i've actually tried putting ropes in a bunch of projects and they never have good performance characteristics. in fact for text editors no one has invented anything better than "one string per one line", and if you want to be fancy you split it at point (what emacs does) ☟︎
asciilifeform: barpub: if you know where i can buy ram that ain't a flatarray, please tell
barpub: if you're stuck representing strings as flat arrays, yes, o(n)ism is a necessity
asciilifeform: oh hey trinque we have a fella from yer favourite geography
phf: i don't know why you explain to me things that ~i argued in the past~. fwiw, i argued "utf-8 is a whole spittoon" back when the question of encoding first came up, to somewhat fierce opposition ☟︎