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asciilifeform: within a given bitness category

asciilifeform: reminds me, not long before the beginning of the time of dulap troubles, and the isp winter, asciilifeform was experimenting with statistical tests of the ~moduli~ a la dieharder

mircea_popescu: you now look for the signature blocks of a in b, and have the whole show.

mircea_popescu: afaik "shadow brokers" didn't release this principal rsa exploitation tool of "teh equation group", but : imagine you have a machine a) working on your own special-purpose made prng ; and b) generating rsa keys all the time and on call.

mircea_popescu: there ~are~ extension attacks, but those typically require more than a dozen bits known.

asciilifeform doesn't expect to see a pill against this, other than he already obvious engineering margin of using respectable number of bits of entropy for whole thing

mircea_popescu: of course, the odds of getting a FF FF q and a FF FF p are 1/2^32

asciilifeform: ok i misread a leading ...

mircea_popescu: ftr, octet is the fucking right word for 8 bits. a byte should be 64 bits these days.

mircea_popescu: i have a serious issue with bit/byte confusion trying to get myself out of it somehow.

asciilifeform: the other thing, diana_coman , is that if enemy knows that you will never use a p or q below limit l -- he can start bruting from l

asciilifeform: diana_coman: generally speaking, anything one could conceivably walk over, is unsafe - i.e. primes smaller than the number of femtoseconds in a millenium, if i had to give a heuristic

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737516 << this is no leak ; it is a restatement of "first two bits set to 11, so you only use 2045 bit keys" ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: spyked: i use generic, which (quite unlike in cpp) results in a fully static structure that is created at runtime

a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:29 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737294 <-- not sure if possible with ffatronic ada subset, though, because of "no dynamic objects" restriction. in my (yet-unpublished) prototype, lisp memory size is a static knob.

a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:22 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737268 <-- this. ftr, current adalisp prototype (not-yet-published and thus yet-vapourware!) represents "pointers" as indices in a statically-allocated array.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737525 << this is therightthing. but note that not only is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737533 not a problem, but the behaviour is fundamental to ffa. in ada a structure is considered nondynamic if its size doesn't change at run time. not if 'magic number' size, like in overflowlang. ☝︎☝︎

diana_coman: asciilifeform, I meant in the final pair; i.e. you get p=3 and q=2^4095+1 sort of thing; ofc throw both in a pair if product not right size; but if not enforcing any size condition at all on p and q then you can end up with any small prime too

asciilifeform: imho ^ is The Right Thing, at least for folx who aren't generating keys in a burning hurry

a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 03:58 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737253 << time will tell. Depends on how much the logs-to-date worth of archives end up being in drive space. Bandwidth also a factor. Many things left to be sussed out.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737465 << i'd expect a few thousand items at 15kb each or so, so maybe 100mb total ? ☝︎

mircea_popescu: a. yeah.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is no communication among unknown parties. someone somewhere gives you a key.

a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:09 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734517 << not quite. for encryption, if I get your modulus, and you actually want to read my messages, I can generate a public exponent between M/2 and (say) 3M/4, and attach it to the message in plaintext.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737520 << what keeps a million enemies from offering false pubexps in false conversations, preventing us from agreeing on a genuine one ? ☝︎☟︎

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737294 <-- not sure if possible with ffatronic ada subset, though, because of "no dynamic objects" restriction. in my (yet-unpublished) prototype, lisp memory size is a static knob. ☝︎☟︎

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737264 <-- strings are (lisp) lists-of-characters. which, as it is, unfortunately makes parsing and evaluating builtin functions (e.g. cons, car, cdr) a pain in the ass. can be structured cleanly though. also, this makes it not a simple matter of find+replace in shithub scheme.adb. ☝︎☟︎

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737268 <-- this. ftr, current adalisp prototype (not-yet-published and thus yet-vapourware!) represents "pointers" as indices in a statically-allocated array. ☝︎☟︎

apeloyee: assuming M is a modulus of a useful RSA key, this will work

apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734517 << not quite. for encryption, if I get your modulus, and you actually want to read my messages, I can generate a public exponent between M/2 and (say) 3M/4, and attach it to the message in plaintext. ☝︎☟︎

apeloyee: fwiw I just realized that this ^ leaks a little via the modulus

deedbot: Provide a paste URL to the ascii-armored GPG public key or the full 40 character key fingerprint without spaces or dashes.

BingoBoingo: Perhaps register a key while you are here? You never know when you will need it.

hubud: Hard to find a sane btc community these days

hubud: He's a goat farmer

asciilifeform: a la microshit.

lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737253 << time will tell. Depends on how much the logs-to-date worth of archives end up being in drive space. Bandwidth also a factor. Many things left to be sussed out. ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: ( it could buy a veeeery small, in a bottle , flotilla... )

asciilifeform: pretty sure i still have a coin i paid 0 for, lel

asciilifeform: ( i could even readily believe that an , e.g., 25x rise in the heathenbux:btc exch rate would make no practical diff to mircea_popescu . but i suspect that i am not the only one here for whom it would make a palpable diff. )

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737451 << i see the q of whether a coin buys a rowboat, a battleship, or entire flotilla, as broadly interesting one -- but mebbe that's just me ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737435 << keep in mind, this was not a high bar -- ru soldiers took home even toilets from germany ☝︎

hanbot: <mircea_popescu> (asciilifeform's ticker idea) << nah, autospeaking bots to be kept at a minimum which is 0. << for the curious, why is say deedbot's rss announcer a non-auto event whereas a market movement isn't?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737334 << nah, autospeaking bots to be kept at a minimum which is 0. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: if we had a way to quantify we could just decide.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737321 << this is a problem ; but perhaps opening it up to the market may be helpful.\ ☝︎

ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737405 << currently working the 4th permutation of a 65536 byte message for a 32 bit hash ☝︎

mircea_popescu: i get odd viral influenzas in the first months of mingling with the whores of a new land also.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, because see, if you don't use nextprime you lack the "nop bridge" so to speak. rolling number 6 does not take you to 7. to get 7 you need a natural 7, and this is equiprobable to rolling a natural 2^74207281-1 on the space of (0,2^74207281-1).

a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 19:29 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737247 << it looks like a properly structured scheme evaluator, but it's ~explicitly~ lacking a native cons, which might be a very good exercise for whoever™ adding a static allocation space, adding mark-and-sweep, then all those To_Unbounded_String look like they can be simply search/replaced

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737262 << this is actually a pretty good approach. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 17:47 ben_vulpes: and in ancients, dusted off mpfhf benchmarker, finished the bit-banging of inputs, fired off a run late last week that is *still hashing*

mircea_popescu: clarity is more valuable than a nearer asimptote, in many contexts.

a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 01:02 mircea_popescu: im not going to have my tech people do backflips to seamlessly bridge imperial idiocy into reality when i could just have the marketing people point out to how the empire lied by making the difference a point of difference.

mircea_popescu: ok, you'd conceivably squeeze a little more, but again, see http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737360 ☝︎

asciilifeform: (last digit of a product is not a straight product of the last-digit-of-p and last-digit-of-q )

asciilifeform: you don't actually get a 10x10=0100 because carry bits ripple up

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737241 << tell him that if he regs a name ima donate to his project. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 0 led either one, or rather, non 11 led either one gives you a sub 4096 N

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only case where this is a problem is 0-led p + 0-led q

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i made a stab of computing a lower bound of bitness for hypothetical '4096b of possible prime' but ran out of juice.

mircea_popescu: im not going to have my tech people do backflips to seamlessly bridge imperial idiocy into reality when i could just have the marketing people point out to how the empire lied by making the difference a point of difference. ☟︎

asciilifeform: fella oughta chat with his cto, vizier, etc before becoming a public clown.

asciilifeform: 'The Chinese miners were instructed to continue mining the coin, even at great financial loss, to support a pretension of value and use, minimally sustaining its life. When the price troughed, those who were in the know about the plan accumulated it in large quantities' etc.

diana_coman: at a first pass this duplex thing based on keccak seems to be a similar attempt really, hence my question if anyone looked at it more closely (I'm still trying to fully grasp it, not there yet)

a111: Logged on 2017-10-06 23:13 mircea_popescu: basically the scheme is, you rsa a random bitfield, then you expand that into as much otp as you want by doing recursively Fi = hash(bitfield + Fi-1). there's a limit on i, obviously, which can be set to 1.

asciilifeform: tbh i dun expect to live to see such a thing

asciilifeform: ( we dun have a scientific approach to symmetric ciphering. )

diana_coman: yes; but it's unclear if a simple bitfield xor is best option

asciilifeform: what's hard re using otp ? it's a xor

asciilifeform: keccak is immune to length-extension attack so it is pretty straightforward to convert it into a cipher

phf: well, i'm thinking in terms of a TMSR MACHINE. scheme.adb linked against ffa linked against that com1 hack you posted some time ago :p

phf: right, so that scheme.adb would benefit from a way to cons onto an arbitrary sized array, and then later someone can bolt a gc on top of that. can even implement it as an explicit function call rather than a threshold thing

a111: Logged on 2017-11-12 23:12 asciilifeform: i'm not fully convinced that a scripting lang ~needs~ a gc

asciilifeform: phf: you can run your entire heap of a mmap'd region , neh

phf: the array instead of pointers approach gives you free save (in fact you can run it against a mmaped region and have a ghetto core file)

phf: somewhat relatedly one handy thing i saw on CADR is named cons regions, i.e. explicit memory regions where you can cons and every allocation function having a *-in-region equivalent, like (cons-in-region x y region). i'm not sure if that's there, but you presumably can do some kind (with-cons-region (region ...) body) thing. naturally those regions can be saved (preserved referential integrity) or cleared, etc.

asciilifeform: ( there's no particular reason why you can't have a schemetron use strictly arrays and integer indices into same )

phf: there be dragons. i mean, if you're rewriting a parser in lisp, then you might as well have proper readtables, rather then hardcoded sexp hack

phf: well, right. i'm not sure what ada.strings is (i.e. is it a protocol or concrete datatype), so i can't really comment further

a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 18:13 asciilifeform: use Ada.Strings.Unbounded; << mno ben_vulpes this is ~specifically~ a Do Not Want

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737247 << it looks like a properly structured scheme evaluator, but it's ~explicitly~ lacking a native cons, which might be a very good exercise for whoever™ adding a static allocation space, adding mark-and-sweep, then all those To_Unbounded_String look like they can be simply search/replaced ☝︎☟︎

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: absolutely, have a benchmarking in place, will be implementing those two changes and recording improvements

asciilifeform: but if you want to make a fast mphftron, for experimentation, the recipe is 1) compute upper bound of the scratch space length and preallocate. NEVER realloc 2) NEVER flip-all-the-bits, flip a 'did-we-flip' bit instead, and the latter always get xor'd with whatever bit you read from the flippablespace.

asciilifeform: though asciilifeform will admit to still being at a loss re what the appeal is , after these...

a111: Logged on 2017-08-15 22:51 asciilifeform: but instead flipping a single bit that gets xored with the result every time you read from the would-have-been-flipped reg.

a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 17:47 ben_vulpes: and in ancients, dusted off mpfhf benchmarker, finished the bit-banging of inputs, fired off a run late last week that is *still hashing*

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737245 << if you apply the bound we found in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679483 thread, and the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-15#1698509 trick, mphf a not-especially-slow hash ☝︎☝︎☝︎

asciilifeform: use Ada.Strings.Unbounded; << mno ben_vulpes this is ~specifically~ a Do Not Want ☟︎

ben_vulpes: and in ancients, dusted off mpfhf benchmarker, finished the bit-banging of inputs, fired off a run late last week that is *still hashing* ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: ( 1 caveat is that this is a leaking operation , theoretically )

asciilifeform: 5) you have a winner: a prime selected from 2^4096 possibles.

asciilifeform: 2) generate a random k, k < 2^b

asciilifeform: 1) calculate what a certain b is, such that there are likely to be 2^4096 primes below 2^b-1

asciilifeform: tho here's a somewhat barbaric method :

asciilifeform: ( it's a 3000yr unsolved megaproblem )

asciilifeform: nao ideally one would have a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-07#1733382 i.e. 4096b of ~possible prime~ phase space ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 12:44 mircea_popescu: this is not "true for very many keys like a billion trillion keys". this is true all the way up, by the time one's made 10^609 keys we're starting to get into five-nines assurance of unicity.

a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 11:43 mircea_popescu: this is evidently a "loss" of entropy, in the sense that what is advertised (4096) differs from what is actually delivered (no more than 4090). i am of a good mind to start calling them 4090 bit keys tbh.