log☇︎
46300+ entries in 0.34s
phf: btw one of the reasons for dodgy delete function in the diff is that patches theoretically a reversible, -'ing all the lines of file can conversely be +'d back
phf: actually phf-shiva-swank is still broken in the experimental patchset, because it was produced by vdiff/patch combination (vdiff made some claims of shasums, which patch didn't verify. the fact that i should've verified the press is a different question)
phf: well, this goes back to the threads about whether or not it makes sense to patch sigs on your workbench. i use patch in my workflow frequently outside of pressing a tree to bring things from one state into another. i might have a dozen of unsigned patches, that i'm working with that won't see the light of day
phf: i don't think that's a good idea, but i can't articulate an objection. vpatch now needs to know about your wot and wot management, or else the process of patching now becomes explicitly providing a pub key, a corresponding sig and a vpatch itself.
phf: or the thinking that vdiff doesn't sig, but then vpatch expects a sig never the less?
phf: from that perspective both vdiff and vpatch ~could~ also produce a corresponding sig, in which case the protocol is that patch/diff produce an always valid vpatch (i.e. vpatch/sig combination)
phf: in my thinking vtroner is a larger beast, that's responsible for the management of the entire press chain. patch/diff are dealing with a specific problem of comparing two states, producing a difference of those two tays, and then taking a state into a next state according to differences
mircea_popescu: in principle we could do incremental builds ; but only if they can be cleanly upgraded later, that's a major point.
phf: mpi is a fraction of what gnupg is, are we then moving away from pgp keys and signatures?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-14 19:42 mircea_popescu: phf are you amenable to re-writing diff btw ? http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-06#1747792 is going to happen later this year, and v-immutability is a pita.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-05 00:49 mircea_popescu: i do not wish to live in a world where people can make patches consisting of 512kb lines of a
mircea_popescu: making your file comvertible to old style patch through a truncation op.
mircea_popescu: you ~could have a diff format whereby first line is x y z with x = total line count, y notation line count z data line count, and then instead of +++ --- bs you just have line count references in the notation part. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: kinda open matter yet ; but procedurally one takes the diff source code, genesises it, patches the differences and produces a drop-in diff replacement.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: consider making a spec for the One Troo Diff ?
asciilifeform: iirc ben_vulpes had a prototype .
mircea_popescu: phf are you amenable to re-writing diff btw ? http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-06#1747792 is going to happen later this year, and v-immutability is a pita. ☝︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-14 19:22 mircea_popescu: that could've meant tmsr-diff. what it means practically is that there's going to be a "new" mpi in eucrypt, textually identical to the genesis one ; and people will be re-reading and re-reading and RE-READING whole lots of the same exact code as if new, resulting in a situation where instead of the problem being pushed into "a filesystem hierarchy standard" it'll be pushed into a "code standard". which happens to be exactly
asciilifeform: it's what i do for a living.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu decides to have the eulora programmers not only copy the thing verbatim, as if v never existed, but to retype it, and whack'em with a stick for each mistyped letter, who am i to object . it's his proggy.
mircea_popescu: like how oral culture worked, the concept of a trope, as found in folk tales, is really simply equivalent to "and this is how mpi goes, and this is how bubblesort goes..." and so on.
mircea_popescu: that could've meant tmsr-diff. what it means practically is that there's going to be a "new" mpi in eucrypt, textually identical to the genesis one ; and people will be re-reading and re-reading and RE-READING whole lots of the same exact code as if new, resulting in a situation where instead of the problem being pushed into "a filesystem hierarchy standard" it'll be pushed into a "code standard". which happens to be exactly ☟︎
mircea_popescu: yes we don't have a gns yet, but this doesn't excuse us from... doing the same computations by hand as if we had it! it's not suddenly allowable to go "well since i have no running water i therefore do not wash". no bitch -- since you have no running water, you walk fifty miles uphil each way to GET water in a bucket. still wash.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-14 16:13 phf: rs~ might a little bit more meaning out of the press namespace. one pill to satisfy later group of people would be to come up with a filesystem hierarchy standard, i.e. you always press at the same root, but you're pressing into a tmsr namespace. so it'll be /bin/bitcoin/... /lib/mpi/...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-14#1751486 << i considered this. it's not evidently broken, but i think it subtly is broken, and the principal cause of the failure of the unix actually -- a failure to correctly handle namespaces. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: this is me opting out. now go read thefucking logs ; copy BY HAND on a notebook what you did wrong, in fucking gothic longhand, a dozen times, and get it in your thick skull.
mircea_popescu: mpi is a SUB. and if it can't act the sub part it's getting cut out with hot irons and the ground where it stood salted.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-14 15:39 asciilifeform: i.e. why can't 'eucrypt' be a ~sibling~ dir to 'mpi'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-14#1751448 << because it's not a fucking sibling to fucking mpi ☝︎
mircea_popescu: (humor necessarily feeds of contradiction of expectations ; hope is always and no matter how disguised continuation of expectation. the contradiction between the two is absolute and a matter of definition.)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-14 13:49 shinohai: But the concept of a UBI is hilarious period.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-14#1751431 << nah. there's a straight relationship between humour and hope : anything thats hopeable is not humorous and vice-versa. ☝︎
ben_vulpes: which is kind of impressive because bumble was already a shitty tinder, providing a cover for short-term coy behavior in online dating.
ben_vulpes: so it's a shitty bumble now.
asciilifeform: ( and the supposed converter boxes, dun work worth a shit. ) but iirc i already mentioned this.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-14 05:14 ben_vulpes: concretely, trying to figure out what it would take to prototype a tuneable phase locked loop channel
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-14#1751422 << where does one find a ~non~-tunable pll , ben_vulpes ? ☝︎
phf: it is to some extent a bsd model (that slackless os also follows it), where you have baseline system, where the source is owned by a cabal of maintainers/developers
asciilifeform: this also makes the vtronic-linux a moar tenable, imho, proposition.
asciilifeform: also oughta satisfy mircea_popescu's 'there was 1 genesis' item. because under phf's unification, there in fact ~was~ , created an empty universe with a 'bitcoin' dir.
phf: rs~ might a little bit more meaning out of the press namespace. one pill to satisfy later group of people would be to come up with a filesystem hierarchy standard, i.e. you always press at the same root, but you're pressing into a tmsr namespace. so it'll be /bin/bitcoin/... /lib/mpi/... ☟︎
phf: well, the nature of v is that you're pressing into a global namespace. in fact that was a property of the original idea to a great extent (hence mp and his insistence on there being only one genesis). we compromised that already by having multiple projects, but you still run into the same issue when you're trying to combine multiple projects together. you're basically saying that the press namespace doesn't matter as long as there's no collision. ~othe
asciilifeform: though i'll admit that i personally dun get the fixation with moving mpi to being a subdir of $newproj.
asciilifeform: now here's a 3rd pill :
mod6: I understand that sentiment. We discussed this at length. Which is why I actually have a test-vpatch pgp key for that purpose only.
mod6: That is fine; if it has a valid corresponding signature.
asciilifeform: mod6: if you dun have a testmode, you gotta sign it yerself to run it, what can i say
asciilifeform: imho the item i posted just nao, illustrates the cleaner method. but it has down-side in that one has to give up on 'i get to decide exactly what the unix dir structure will look like, notwithstanding the fact that gnumake was dropped as a baby and has nfi what file moving is'
mod6: your example will not work with my vtron, for one simple reason: the new rules state that we do not do ANYTHING with vpatches that do not have a corresponding signature - we IGNORE WILD vpatches and drop them on the floor.
asciilifeform: if phf , or anyone else, can think of a 3rd ( that is, one that actually preserves the v-genealogy , rather than idiot-cut-and-pastism ) i'm all ears.
asciilifeform: now let's come back to my much earlier pill, which i suggested in the mircea_popescu thread. which is imho even uglier. in that one, diana_coman would have to introduce the three mpi-ism vpatches comprising her working set, as ~files~ into eucrypt. and a sed script, and a vtron invocation, into her eucrypt makefile.
asciilifeform: i.e. why can't 'eucrypt' be a ~sibling~ dir to 'mpi' ☟︎
asciilifeform: it isn't required for the linker, nor for maintaining v-lineage ( the latter works just as well if diana_coman were to simply add a comment to 1 or more items in mpi dir , that 'this is nao part of eucrypt' )
asciilifeform: phf: this is the basic insanity of gnupatch. a proper vpatch ought to see that the hashes are the same incoming and outgoing , and Do The Right Thing without the idiot spew
phf: diana_coman: it's not going to be pretty. it'll be twice the amount of text: once to delete the old file with - - - - and once to create a new file with + + + +
diana_coman: mind telling me how you see it done? it's hopefully faster than debugging a wrong approach; once I have it working I'll write up the failure too if that's the thing
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I need to create a vpatch that performs the change of dir structure from a/mpi to b/eucrypt/mpi where the contents of the mpi folder in both cases are identical; or more specifically for the task at hand: I want to create a vpatch that has as antecedent my previous sane_mpi_eucrypt.vpatch (whose output is an mpi folder with all sorts) and results in eucrypt/mpi where this new mpi folder has precisely same contents
shinohai: But the concept of a UBI is hilarious period. ☟︎
shinohai: Is this UBI thing a meme now? http://archive.is/q3fXn
ben_vulpes: concretely, trying to figure out what it would take to prototype a tuneable phase locked loop channel ☟︎
asciilifeform: also it is not so hot , as a tuner, 'shits where it eats' quite severely
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1751176 << nah, too complex and therefore frail system like that. simply : host ALL sigs for ALL things yourself ; let the urls be known publicly and don't change them. << This works. Having the redundancy is a good thing too. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1751240 << you know, it's only 1250 lines by btcbase count ; i recall in the past we had 2, maybe even a coupla 3k line days. yet NEVER before was it the case convo got so dense i had to switch to log reading WHILE AT THE TERMINAL. ☝︎
asciilifeform: will emphasize, nobody should sign unless fully ready to say ' i know for a fact that this piece works, would jump with the parachute '
mircea_popescu: the fact that chick's depicted "under a cover" rather than in the frank position ( http://img.tfd.com/medical/Davis/Tabers/v26.jpg ) is a ~stylistical~ choice.
mircea_popescu: this is a fine example as to what i mean by http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1750802 btw. "oh, i found a couple more". really bitch, you did ? ha-ha funny. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: "not hosting your sigs" is therefore a low level "can't be bothered to rate but still dun like you" sorta hostility
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1751173 << it's a good idea to host a whole set of "approved" (by your own lights) sigs for all vpatches. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 22:50 mircea_popescu: fun fact : total land area on this planet being 510 mn sqkm ; and bitcoin cap being 21 mn, it therefore follows that the absolute maximal average price for land is a dime per square km.
mircea_popescu: in a sense, yea
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1751237 << aha, and to think about the various symptoms individually, is rather like thinking of each individual fractured bone in d00d dropped from a skyscraper, as separate injury ☝︎
mircea_popescu: (stug is like a tank without turret, larger cannon)
mircea_popescu: had less power than a modern muscle car, at that.
mircea_popescu: corndiesel marginal, and corn is a lot more uniform than man
asciilifeform: nobody makes bank, it's a 'this is slightly cheaper than immediate boiling for soap' option.
mircea_popescu: it's just not a very good concept.
mircea_popescu: fun fact : if 1960s vietcong invaded, the us could not muster a defense.
asciilifeform: it's building material. for, say, a belomorcanal. or a ww1. etc
a111: Logged on 2017-12-12 23:58 mircea_popescu: <30yo females don't need a hundy.
mircea_popescu: but also nobody gives a shit. nor ever has.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 23:17 mircea_popescu: it's true that women also have the avenue of not-being-animals anymore, but this happens to have opened just as most "jobs" got destroyed. so yes that works for a 5% of them, and another 10% or so could pretend and convincingly hope. the majority however, very much confront the pork bellies are $2 problem.
mircea_popescu: though that's an overpopulation problem ; india is stuck in a different sphere.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 23:16 mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem of eg, india, where everyone aborts girls because they don't want to pay for their raising to the level where they can be married ~because the trade value of the she-cow is NOT ENOUGH~ is really the fundamental problem of humanity : yes the cost of living went up, but the price of a head of cattle, or a goat, OR A WOMAN as such didn't go up. it went down. it's much cheaper to buy an ox now, either in s
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 22:30 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> o yeah, through careful management the foundation ended up with like a quarter million dollars in its coffers or some shit ? << Careful management that further attracted an especially large donation from whatshisname
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1751194 << there was a d00d, iirc he was going mad, decided to get rid of his coinz.. ☝︎
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Error: "tr" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: there was a brief craze with "ostrich farms" at some point late 90s, but meh. it's just not very good.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 22:27 mircea_popescu: o yeah, through careful management the foundation ended up with like a quarter million dollars in its coffers or some shit ?
mircea_popescu: which neatly sends the precious-cuntlet syndrome straight into metaphysics, "there's a thing beyond the sensible which makes me valuable, let's call it emotions and you could never understand".
mircea_popescu: it's true that women also have the avenue of not-being-animals anymore, but this happens to have opened just as most "jobs" got destroyed. so yes that works for a 5% of them, and another 10% or so could pretend and convincingly hope. the majority however, very much confront the pork bellies are $2 problem. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem of eg, india, where everyone aborts girls because they don't want to pay for their raising to the level where they can be married ~because the trade value of the she-cow is NOT ENOUGH~ is really the fundamental problem of humanity : yes the cost of living went up, but the price of a head of cattle, or a goat, OR A WOMAN as such didn't go up. it went down. it's much cheaper to buy an ox now, either in s ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "snowderella or what's her name DIDNT EVEN HAVE TO STAY ALIVE till the prince came, why should i hit the threadmill". how did he come ? well... that's his problem! and his business! as a prince, to come! (ie, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-12#1749973 ) ☝︎
mircea_popescu: a concern with "privacy", preoccupations with "feminism" in the ustardian sense, complete unskilled cluelessness etcetera are all great predictors of the underlying syndrome.
mircea_popescu: drives a whole class of neurotic behaviour that ultimately ensures her social marginality, economic poverty and personal dishappiness (not mere unhappiness, as the absence of happiness, but the exact constructed OPPOSITE of happiness)
mircea_popescu: girly ends up persuaded that she has a very valuable something she must take great good care of between her legs -- her precious cuntlet.
mircea_popescu: now, as it happens said behaviour is a terrible strategy in postmodernity (basically, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-21#727929 ie you'll lose out on EXACTLY the long tail SV.VC can not afford to lose) ; but the remnants of a pre-modern time manifest in the lowest forms of culture -- such as disney films ; and passive socialization. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 18:26 asciilifeform: what exactly is a 'precious cuntlet'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1750808 << this possibly deserves dwelling. so, as far as biology is concerned, there is a very direct problem sexual dimorphism bestows upon the female, referenced now and again in logs (eg http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551894 ) as well as the possibly related psychological issue (coy behaviour, lotta words on trilema re this). ☝︎☝︎
mircea_popescu: fun fact : total land area on this planet being 510 mn sqkm ; and bitcoin cap being 21 mn, it therefore follows that the absolute maximal average price for land is a dime per square km. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: In other news, Yellen poked US interest rates up by a quarter point before the door meets her ass.