42100+ entries in 1.387s
solrodar: I haven'
t sold anything of this nature before, but I have managed a number of domain names including one I bought at auction
mircea_popescu: well good, but i don'
t think he's buying. at any rate, so what do you plan to do to actually get cash out of the goods ? list them for sale somewhere ? simply run an auction here ? details help.
mircea_popescu: i don'
t think you take my meaning. have you for instance ever auctioned a domain name successfully ? are you well known in those circles ? anything ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: the interests of that force will never align with your naive market theory, and so no, categorically, market in v's isn'
t happening.
mircea_popescu: it is eminently difficult to reconstruct what people thought years ago ; famously - one can'
t actually do this for oneself, which is how proust got to be famous.
humanoidity: kakobrekla: didn'
t imply you needed them, but getting other knowledgeable folks' opinion on a particular situation doesn'
t strike me as unreasonable.
humanoidity: jurov: ah, yes, the pgp signed contracts which can'
t ever be renegociated when external circumstances change. I hadn'
t realized that.
phf: i take it the issue is not "where" the money comes from (because there's a valid existing venue that worked in the past for this particular usecase), the issue is that of trust, i.e. kako doesn'
t trust mp for future bitbet operations
humanoidity: kakobrekla : have you guys explored selling more bitbet shares ? Might be another way to recover those 17BTC, diluting shareholder value a little. And then let bygone etc... and focus on making sure the payout problem can'
t happen again.
humanoidity: jurov: first time on irc, don'
t even know what 'wot' is :)
humanoidity: Yeah, 750. But what I mean is that spreading that 17BTC loss over the 740BTC outstanding bets might be a way out. The only liability will be the site's rep, and the damage won'
t be irreparable looks like
humanoidity: Also, I'm thinking ... 17/240 is 0.0229 which ain'
t much.
humanoidity: kakobrekla: for the sake of the newcomers here ... can you expand on why mp's 17BTC offer wasn'
t acceptable ?
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:20:43; asciilifeform: i won'
t bet so much as a satoshi at a betmoose or fairlay or whatever other wotless wild derpery.
BingoBoingo: But so long as alf doesn'
t get to telecommute from Ohio, everything to rent bezzle
thestringpuller: does company get lent credit and just book the bill as an expense? it's probably justifiable if done in a way where shareholders still get to see ~some~ profit monthly, but company doesn'
t go bankrupt paying of credit.
thestringpuller: phf: so zero assets is obviously an oversight << since corporation doesn'
t hold any cash outside of "day to day operations" and all profit is distributed, dealing with credit is tricky. what if company needs to buy a foo-machine but is too expensive to book as a one time expense?
humanoidity: phf : gotcha. So there's quite a bit of cash parked in there atm, and 17btc doesn'
t look like at huge amount to build back. Why on earth was mp's loan offer rejected ?
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 22:22:18; phf: but as an advertisement platform for mpex and steady stream of income for investors i don'
t see ~anything~ wrong with bitbet. my current interpretation is that a lot of various people overreacted and a sure thing was killed.
phf: but as an advertisement platform for mpex and steady stream of income for investors i don'
t see ~anything~ wrong with bitbet. my current interpretation is that a lot of various people overreacted and a sure thing was killed.
☟︎☟︎ phf: jurov: you're right, there's not much that can be done as far as bickering. i find some of the positions rather petty or outright alarmist, but i can'
t keep people from talking. i'm only thinking that an arbitration procedure could produce tldr that at the very least will focus the attention.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Who knows, maybe after reciever cuts it up Betmoose would be willing to buy parts and carry it as the sort of reddit betting thing they've been somehow floating for a while. I don'
t know if I would bet there, but seems like possible buyer for domain/software.
jurov: i did want bbet restarted, but since today i realized the "can'
t be valued" part, this is not feasible
jurov: yes, i understand it too. i only don'
t understand the "can'
t be valued" part.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 19:34:02; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> << just how deeply in the red ~was~ bbet, if we consider this ..? << i dunno man, how much for a night with my slave of your choice ? for me she'll do it for free, you she will not even consider. and this speaks to phf's and other's q as to why assets weren'
t on the books since they can be trivially enumerated : yes they can be ; but they can'
t be VALUED. what's the accounting value of
jurov: asciilifeform: i don'
t see anything like that in this case
phf: ftr i didn'
t raise that as a question, i was clarifying how things are for myself and others.
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2016 03:45:55; mircea_popescu: there's a graph, it doesn'
t touch 1bn.
mircea_popescu: solrodar> they chose not to charge it to the company, therefore it didn'
t count << this is correct. but he's welcome to consider counterfactuals also. just - shouldn'
t expect me to present factuals for counterfactuals, should write his own story himself!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> << just how deeply in the red ~was~ bbet, if we consider this ..? << i dunno man, how much for a night with my slave of your choice ? for me she'll do it for free, you she will not even consider. and this speaks to phf's and other's q as to why assets weren'
t on the books since they can be trivially enumerated : yes they can be ; but they can'
t be VALUED. what's the accounting value of bitbet codebase ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> mircea_popescu described the high-S thing as noncontroversial << wasn'
t that the other one ?
PeterL: Or it can be viewed in terms of WoT, random guy off the street has no trust from bitbet that he won'
t doublespend, bitbet has been holding the coins and thus has implicit trust from guy that he will get paid eventually
solrodar: they chose not to charge it to the company, therefore it didn'
t count
PeterL: I still don'
t see the need for any malisciousness, just somebody holding it in some sort of "side mempool"
PeterL: aha, so the high-S thing only proves the miners don'
t like it, you would need to find something the miners allow but prb does not
mats:
http://log.b-a.link/?date=14-03-2016#1432527 << as i've been reading it, the 17btc is still in dispute? i don'
t want to be in the position of resolving this, but i'd be happy to audit whatever coins still reside in s.bbet public (or not) addresses and publish results
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i didn'
t think so, the qntra piece would have read "fuck vc sybils already".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can i relay directly to miners, or can'
t i ?
phf: PeterL: oh from ~sale~ you mean. i don'
t think that shareholders have any claim to sale. since it's a zero asset corporation, the only movable part is "bets come in, percentage collected, payment sent out". "assets" is the percentage that's collected at the end of month, and immediately distributed to shareholders. what is being sold is domain/codebase and a negotiation rights with mp for hosting. that was never funded by shareholders
mircea_popescu: well, i'm not entirely sure it can charge 1% if it doesn'
t resolve the bets.
mircea_popescu: iirc originally a chunk was sold, then sometime early last year or perhaps late 2014 the remainder of the shares were distributed to the principals. iirc i didn'
t sell much, mostly now and again to try and temper overexcited price action. should be something like .5 to maybe 3mn shares outstanding depending how much kako himself sold.
mircea_popescu: it's a disease of the mind that i don'
t really think can be cured, just quarantined.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> and don'
t need a 'speaker for.' <<< the problem with the democrat's mind is that he's been ruined by low effort "success" and so will forever be seeking this fantasy of a "silent electorate" to propel him through a life without labour.
solrodar: so you're saying that bitbet hasn'
t really been profitable in a long time, but you kept it running for entertainment value?
mircea_popescu: but currently, the actual bitcoin network fee doesn'
t even ammount to 1% of the actual cost of interacting with this sprawling pile of shit.
phf: seems to be that most? every? aspect of bitbet operation was funded out of mp's pocket, so it's zero asset because it literally doesn'
t own any of the parts required for its operation. bitbet as an entity existed purely as a "bets come in, house takes percentage, payments come out" operation.
phf: solrodar: nothing need have happened to warrant that question. reserve is there to pay out what was payed in. can'
t pay for server from reserve. ascii's question is not pointed, he's never seen bitbet's paperwork and is surprised that a business can run without own assets.
nubbins`: what, you can'
t fuck around with novel ways of doing things because s.bbet imploded?
thestringpuller: "The server at qntra.net can'
t be found, because the DNS lookup failed."
mircea_popescu: going through a game of go is rare among endeavours in that i can'
t be doing other things.
mircea_popescu: ow fuck, that's ANOTHER thing i won'
t have to do, resolve that god damned bet, huh.
mircea_popescu: and to disabuse THAT notion, i don'
t personally think stalin was either very apt, very smart, or any sort of example to be followed. is, indeed, a notable example for all sorts of things,
mircea_popescu: and on the other hand, the lulzy "a man that doesn'
t believe in allah can'
t possibly not go on a murdering rampage" deeply held if ridiculous, and certainly unexamined belief of egyptian peasants, except translated in time and space to you know, "one in a position of authority is necessarily both bad and responsible!"
mircea_popescu: "They consider themselves leaderless. They can have representatives, they can have "evangelists" but they have to believe that their conclusions are all their own, through individual reflection and objective consideration. Interestingly, and on purpose, they believe their brains can handle such an analysis, any analysis. This isn'
t arrogance. They are told, by universities and the media, that their mind is prepared
mircea_popescu: jurov i said, at the time, that i can'
t in good conscience allow people to vote largesse out of mpex. plox, read the thing you're talking about.
PeterL: didn'
t MP follow decision of Rota?
mircea_popescu: this usually attracts talkers, if they be any good, at least. exactly the same way it worked for satoshi, and exactly the same way it always seems to work out, a little later you look around and there's all this democracy and "consumers have come to expect" and general bullshit imported, which you don'
t even rightly feel able to explain whence it came.
phf: nubbins`: it's a shame that you chose this approach for your denouncement. some people are here (myself, maybe ascii) not to make money, but to fuck around with novel ways of doing things. it would've been nifty if, as a "lord" if you will, you picked up the game and made your accusations formal, maybe solicited a judge from the wot, made it interesting somehow! you don'
t have to obviously, but the approach that you chose was basic and
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432210 << so basically we have a community full of people who confuse "voice of sanity" and "people on tilt" liberally, and by and large is willing to "discuss" everything from this arm's length position of "whatever, as long as we're spending other people's money here's what we think", but by and large can'
t do anything AT ALL ?
☝︎ mircea_popescu: if you ever throw a party somewhere that isn'
t in a swamp i wanna come.
mircea_popescu: you don'
t, however, have a manner to walk out of this WITH bitbet, no matter what discussions may pass. it does not belong to you, irrespective what you may think.
solrodar: snorera: there is no reporting, it's a fiduciary arrangement, they can'
t actually control what the receiver does
mircea_popescu: well yeah, creditors generally. it can'
t just go, "hey, shareholder's interest is they get all moneyz so there. problem solved."
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 14:35:55; nubbins`: hey, do you guys remember yesterday when MP said he'd steal 750 BTC worth of outstanding bets if he can'
t find a receiver for bitbet?
thestringpuller: bystander shouldn'
t be standing up during a bank robbery!!!1
nubbins`: You weren'
t caught in some occult and unknowable coincidence that was out of your hands [when you chose to send a 0-fee tx and you got bitten as a result]. You either didn'
t make sure you understood the basics of using bitcoin, or else you decided not to care.
nubbins`: i'm not interested in discussing what my conclusion would have been if something that didn'
t happen happened.
nubbins`: "i shouldn'
t have to pay fee because i'm me"
nubbins`: if i couldn'
t bear to wait X amount of time
nubbins`: hey, do you guys remember yesterday when MP said he'd steal 750 BTC worth of outstanding bets if he can'
t find a receiver for bitbet?
☟︎ thestringpuller: I'll text-ify it later. But I guess point it, don'
t you think computational power plays a role in what AI does in practice?
polarbeard: I don'
t commute, code can be transfered over the wire :)
polarbeard: it actually doesn'
t for despicable cyclists like me
thestringpuller: meatspace is always over busy. if only traffic didn'
t exist.