log☇︎
30300+ entries in 0.193s
Mocky: if you could upload your consiousness to a pc, would you notice when when your process got swapped out. and if no, how long a pause could you tolerate
phf: i've accidentally read greg egan's quarantine, followed by schild's ladder, i take it once you read one of his novels you've read all of them, unless i choose a particularly similar narratives
Mocky: kind of a weird book imo, permutation city
esthlos: btw asciilifeform: saw you're a fan of greg egan. ever read permutation city?
mircea_popescu: "if i had a ring whereby i'd fuck women by myself..."
mircea_popescu: esthlos ruling the world is not a solitary endeavour.
esthlos: neal stephenson gave a pretty lulzy rendition of the dynabook in the diamond age. poor kid gets ahold of the republican technology, goes on to rule the world
asciilifeform: believe or not, this was a nearly exact replay of almost identical nonsense surrounding introduction of tv
mircea_popescu: "if only children floated in a soup of abstraction there'd be no world hunger" sorta wikiwank.
mircea_popescu: "oh, the children" hurr durr, always boils down to a sort of listless, old pedophile's excitement.
mircea_popescu: phf amusingly, this is a ~type~, like the 90s academic in the pepit jacket with the square bag slung over shoulder.
phf: but his goal with smalltalk etc. wasn't to build a machine for grownups, it was supposed to be a montessori creative exploration device
phf: mircea_popescu: i don't know if there's a definition, "idea" would've been a better term. in any case i've never heard anything concrete, except for the papert/piaget/montessori like esthlos said statements.
phf: alan kay's fixation on children though always confused me, and i think was the undoing of most of his children. like his definition of what children want or like is that of a person profoundly out of touch.
esthlos: phf: you know, about a year ago I wrote Alan Kay asking wtf happened to computing since the days of darpa and xerox parc. his response was "funding now sux"
phf: esthlos: that was never the case (though it certainly looked that way didn't it), the golden age of vlsi happened because of a darpa grant, essentially "give us your designs, we'll fab it for you free of charge"
asciilifeform: esthlos: they only ever built it in the '1 chip at a time with slave labour and oh most of'em dun actually work' sense.
ben_vulpes: once upon a time.
mircea_popescu: come to think about it... i don't know of a single case of girl laying a... student.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i doubt there's what knows how to use a slut on that campus
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i dunno about that, man. from the slut's angle, there's a lot of plain fucking going about.
asciilifeform: there's a fab in usa where, believe or not, they still make 2um classics like cdp1802 for usg. but they dun take walkins. ☟︎
asciilifeform: esthlos: one of the yet-uncured ills is that you cannot actually pay to have a 1980s cpu made, at the current houses, all they offer is 'download this winblowz crapola and use our 60nm standard cells and oh here sign nda for whole thing'
ben_vulpes: esthlos: ah, once a classy joint i hear. since then, well, epicenter of "i don't date nazis" nonsense
esthlos: asciilifeform: I've heard stories from someone who works the floor of an Intel plant in Oregon. seems like a very costly operation for those low-nm processors
mircea_popescu: esthlos baking hardware is a ways off.
phf: from that perspective climacs is a better approach: common lisp as a vm, mcclim as an application authoring framework, climacs as an editor widget
phf: Mocky: fwiw everything inside emacs is a side effect of essentially confining the lisp machine vm to the emacs process. on lisp machines proper the process was inside out: stick emacs everywhere you needed a text editor, but otherwise have separate programs.
asciilifeform: emacs lives on because it is a kind of oasis
mircea_popescu: Mocky like what, a browser ?
Mocky: emacs. which to me explains org mode and emails and browser in emacs, and i suppose the emacs+ratpoison. but in any case a lot of that useful shit dun belong stuck inside an editor
Mocky: revisiting emacs: the problem for me, and the reason i quit it after ~1 year is that the cut between editor / os / keyboard was so obviously wrong. once you get comfortable with the useful stuff in there it sucks that you then can *only* use it in emacs. what, i can't have a decent editor for anything outside of emacs? most of the answers to that question are either a) fuck emacs or b) fuck everything outside of
asciilifeform: some time last yr , asciilifeform , for lulz, stuffed a few units from stash into reader, read. they contained apparently valid z80olade. and, when erased and written to, hold the contents 100% ok
asciilifeform: there's often half a gram of au in these.
asciilifeform has a stash.
asciilifeform: in that last pic, the gluelogic loox to be a mix of su and ro
mircea_popescu: so anyway, if you find a z80 with that beta on it, you got a genuine ro made item.
asciilifeform: aside from rom/ram all it needs is a uart , of which there is also a good '80 supply .
asciilifeform: btw i still haven't tracked down a ro-made z80, most of my collection is from ddr
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-11#1823173 << ru windows eprom. asciilifeform owns a qty, for fyootoor ☝︎
mircea_popescu: esthlos yeah, by now there's a very large userbase for emacs established.
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826916 << I try to do everything I can in emacs, it being the "retarded cousin" lisp machine emulator for C machines. even used exwm for a while. ☝︎
asciilifeform: there is apparently still a subculture around that thing
asciilifeform: ftr, prolly the most enjoyable programming asciilifeform ever did as adult, was on a device called 'pic16', a microcontroller with 68 addressable byte ( and 1k of program rom, it was a 'harvard arch' )
mircea_popescu: this generally is the thing, "what a man and woman can do in their bedroom instead of another pregnancy"
mircea_popescu: the golden age of the z80 games was principally driven by the fact that an intellectual unit (at the time, one guy + one gal) could churn out a game per season. most of the great "studios" of the time were this, coupla married math teachers.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very tellingly, there were afaik 0 great gamez made for mk-85 , despite the latter featuring a pdp11-compat chipset ( in, forfuckssake, a pocket calc!! runinng on , what, 20 milliamp ) and rom basic
asciilifeform: ada, for instance, is a very, very heavy kludge around the c overflows/pointerola iron.
mircea_popescu: this is not directly evident to me. it is impossible to use the killer micro as a timeshare machine, yes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: believe or not, mk61 was a troo breakthrough, a computer (of sorts) that could be actually mass-produced in orcistan. buncha folx did their physics dissertation models on the thing, even
asciilifeform: the i/o device consisted of, what, 40 buttons and a 7-digit vacuum flask display.
mircea_popescu: also not such a great machine.
mircea_popescu: tell you what, get me a box whose only remaining problem is that well... hardware sucks.
mircea_popescu: which fucking hell makes me itch for a knight's bounty session
mircea_popescu: when i was 16, my informatics teacher in the informatics lab told the kids upset at being stuck with the 286s (there were like half a dozen 386s too) that "if you ever get to where you mastered THAT cpu, you'll be way ahead of anything they teach in college anyway".
asciilifeform: re 'manifest matter at will' : in early 2000s asciilifeform grasped the mega-problem , that programming ain't actually hard, except for stripping away the monkey shit produced by 50 yrs of monkey. 'i want a sane emacs' turned into 'sane prog lang' and quickly 'sane os' then 'sane iron' , and afaik this actually the inevitable correct cut, rather than caprice
mircea_popescu: i will download a luxury liner.
mircea_popescu: it's not "oh, errybody has a rotten plank or two keeping'em afloat." it's "oh, everybody ~can manifest matter by will~, currently everybody hanging off the bare minimum rotten plank and they're not even COMPARED". ☟︎
asciilifeform: the current alternative, tho, is not a luxury liner appearing out of nowhere from the sky, but simply no plank, and watery grave.
mircea_popescu: i still gota plot < if i wanna see the graph of a csv. that's floating in lalaland.
asciilifeform: it's moar of a shipwreck, errybody has a rotten plank or two keeping'em afloat.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, the reasoning "a. i have here toe of mummified saint justinian ; b. saint justinian once saved people from drowning ; ergo c. drowning is solved problem in my case" is batshit.
asciilifeform: www tools are in a sorry state, the choice is roughly 1) lynx 2) ipadism
asciilifeform: iirc there is a wwwtron , of a kind, built into emacs; it is in roughly the same condition as climacs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform point is, if i am using emacs wm, WHY should i kludge everything. and if kludge is the way of the land, why do we give a shit about emacs.
mircea_popescu: THIS is what i fucking mean re views. if i wanna see my data as a graph it'd be useful if it were right there in the editor, and if i wanna see websites it'd better also.
asciilifeform: and what's to stop you from diddling the strings in a http proxy. ( prolly easier, really, than making a 'greasemonkey' kludge for erry possible www browser )
mircea_popescu: and it doesn't stop there ; are you aware "modern browser" won't even allow luser to set referrer string ? it's either "nothing at all" or else "Speak the truth". why ? so that fetlife can imp[lement faux security a la "oh, your referrer is incorrect, best relogin".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nevertheless, consider : when the ~only~ possible use of x11 comes to fore, which is to say, playing a video game, all EVERYONE can think of is "how do i makew this a texrt client"
a111: Logged on 2015-02-26 21:07 asciilifeform: mats: for one thing, it it can't be piped over ip, it isn't a substitute for x
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform has nearly a whole www devoted to subj... )
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 19:45 mircea_popescu: leaving this briefly aside, consider the idiocy of "traditional" linux stack. there's a... wm, running x11 ; and in it you load a ... browser... which does it's own windows management (now called tabs).
asciilifeform: the tunneling behaviour of x11 makes it practical to use a box with no video card, no kbd, etc. as a full-bore workstation ( and this was used as early as the bolix lispm )
mircea_popescu: maybe i really don't want to look at it as a succession of numbers. why, because i'm such a troglodyte ?
mircea_popescu: is it ~so wrong~ to want to have either literal or graphical display for a csv, as an option ?
mircea_popescu: but there;s a difference between graphical = "rounded corners" (in the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-10#1821998 sense of that term, "One of the motivations for the changes is to enable animations and transitions. If you use gtk_style_context_save/restore in your draw() function, that prevents GTK+ from keeping the state that is needed to support animations; so you should avoid it when you can.") and graphical = "mp would lik ☝︎
mircea_popescu: DM.molFeComponents.setConfig('molFeSmartBanner', {"android":{"averageUserRating":4.5,"formattedPrice":"FREE - In Google Play","trackCensoredName":"Daily Mail Online","storeUrl":"https://play.google.com/store/a
mircea_popescu: do you have any idea what a ~proper~ model for javascript would be worth in productivity terms ?
mircea_popescu: so you propose we keep a dom and an ast ?
ben_vulpes: implementing the DOM and all of the california complexity doesn't mesh neatly with the text rendering already extant. i use emacs as wm around browser and some other things (not many other things, really, but 'modern' dom-o-tron is sadly yet central to $work), for the expediency of my workbench having a single scriptinglang to move windows around, split whole monitor and arrange for specific workflows...
mircea_popescu: best definition of what a cult is, incidentally. "why was this cut there specifically ?" "i dunno." that's it, that's a cult. can't answer as to why was something cut where it was.
mircea_popescu: anyone ever tried to turn a csv into a png ? something like say http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-as-seen-by-mircescu/ ; very practical need driven item. it's a fucking travesty!
mircea_popescu: if emacs is the wm, then it'd better a) rid me of browser and b) be capable of previewing for me the graph / naked slut / we i'm about to put on trilema, both BEFORE uploading and as part of the final page preview.
mircea_popescu: which is why the idiots make feeble efforts to reunite them, as recently lulzed at wrt unity, a few days ago
mircea_popescu: you need these two piles of idiocy separate like you need a penis for peeing and another penis for also peeing.
mircea_popescu: leaving this briefly aside, consider the idiocy of "traditional" linux stack. there's a... wm, running x11 ; and in it you load a ... browser... which does it's own windows management (now called tabs). ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i would very much support a lot of emacs effort if it gets one rid of having to ~also~ support x11 ; and vice-versa. for instance.
phf: but the first one is about explicitly maintaining multiple contexts, the other one is a technical detail (at the end of the day who cares that emacs is the one doing the management?)
mircea_popescu: phf trying to whittle down the "ide" vs "wm" dispute. multithreading is a major point here.
mircea_popescu: so to beat this horse : is multitasking a desired feature, actually ?
phf: emacs, in dos flavor and in general, has a support for transliteration in both input and output, so you can even edit orc language with some minor discomfort
asciilifeform tried last yr, on a purpose-made box, to replicate it, and failed, lost the ancient art
phf: i've used emacs under dos for almost a year..
asciilifeform: trinque: believe or not, at one time i had a patched msdos to do 120 column txtmode
trinque: possible I'd be entirely comfortable most days in a DOS + emacs, provided the term was big enough
mircea_popescu: but this yes, exposes a major question that may help. is emacs "ide" ? or is emacs "wm" ?
asciilifeform: ( tho i can picture a hypothetical commonlisp-emacs that doesn't ever need to socket , because has compiler inside, like ye olde borland )
asciilifeform: phf: i dun think anybody will cry if we lose ssl. uniturds is tricker matter, e.g. asciilifeform routinely edits proggies with uniturds in'em , in ru, cn, etc, and they gotta at least display ( i'd be ok to swear off ~input~ of uniturds ) . socket of some form is prolly a must, to have either slime or anything like a replacement for it
mircea_popescu: myeah. and maybe the discussion is both a little premature and a little touching raw nerve ; but nevertheless the progress on packaging, first ave1 with musl, coming up trinque cuntoo, etc etc WILL lead to it.
mircea_popescu: nobody involved with lisp coding, starting with rms, and onwards, had a functioning noggin.