log☇︎
30200+ entries in 0.258s
mircea_popescu: he... did. "por milagro", dood fished out my plate out of a sunken highway ramp.
mircea_popescu: in pleasantly surprised : yesterday driving through flood (it rained here like the end of hte world, 15cm+) car lost... the front fucking plate on a highway ramp, when water came as high as the windows.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827999 << a static mysql would be a thing in and of itself! could go in mp-wp too! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 12:37 asciilifeform: i solved this same problem for trb -- i.e. building 100% musltronic proggy with '9000' deps , on a conventional box
asciilifeform: Mocky: imho the best intro text re vtronics is still ben_vulpes's , http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
asciilifeform: Mocky: the design of v is to give thoughtful, careful, honest folx , a sword with which to cut the sloppy, careless, and mendacious.
asciilifeform: Mocky: v rejects the traditional concept of 'merge'. therefore in order for a patch to continue through time, it must be not only correct, and simple not only to understand but to manually reintegrate ( see l0gz re 'regrind' ) .
asciilifeform: Mocky: to function as a troo vtronicist, gotta grasp the concept, described by e.g. dijkstra, that a line of code you have written is not an asset, but an expense. (specifically, an expense against the time budget of other thinking people, who must read and grasp what you have written. ) ☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu , in one of his essays, described how gurlz from nato reich who enlist in his harem sometimes suffer from the effects of fat-soluble poisons, which accumulated in their meat, as the fat burns up in exercise. there is a similar malady suffered by escapees from 'open sores' world on those occasions when they show up here. the toxins gotta work their way out.
asciilifeform: fella had enthusiasm, even some talent, but could not grasp the essential idea that a patch gotta be compact and touch a strict and justifiable minimum count of moving parts
asciilifeform: Mocky: not merely this. there is also a set of human-enforced conventions re: 'fits-in-head' of any proposed change.
a111: Logged on 2014-11-15 00:28 asciilifeform: one would read instructions. another, turn a wrench, whatever. third would check that 2 corresponds to 1. then, all three sign under that step in recipe.
asciilifeform: Mocky: trb , roughly speaking , is a legacy item, in the same way as the icbm targeting comp and similar. i.e. a museum piece that gotta be kept in working order, rather than 'sexy, new' thing bubbling with development
trinque: to particular hardware architectures, particular justwantedto variations like use of systemd or nsa.selinux, so on. the profile dir is about 20mb, so serious yak shaving needs to occur there. it's a task I've already done elsewhere (produced a minimal profile for an embedded system for printers recently), just needs to be done here.
trinque: let me know if you're interested in the script, and I'll be happy to upload. otherwise I'll hold off until done with the genesis.vpatch. what remains there is trimming the fat. the pile of ebuilds necessary to build a minimal userland is approx 4mb, though I can probably shave several mb of alternate versions of same ebuilds. then there's the profile directory, which contains environment settings pertinent
trinque: so if I were to upload the current version of the script for you, it would produce a system which is classical gentoo, my recipe, plus the musl and libressl overlays. this'd be what you'd get if you were hand-spinning own musl/libressl system.
asciilifeform: Mocky: the rpc thing is ugly and there were experiments re replacing it ( e.g. 'shiva', scheme interpreter bolted on to trb ) but this took a back seat to moar pressing matters ( control of memory footprint ; sane sync behaviour; coupla other items ) and to this day rpc is still there.
Mocky: I'm confused about trb rpc. Log search suggests for the first year+ of bitcoin foundation rpc was marked for death: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-28#1417175 but then there's dump / eat block based on rpc? Is this a new version of rpc, I don't see a new version announced on the mailing list. Can someone sum this up for me, I'm having trouble following the history. ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: generally speaking unless one or moar of your deps is weird in the 'emacs' way (i.e. does something obscene with glibc-specific pheatures) it's a straight mechanical job, like rotor.
asciilifeform: it is my understanding that trinque has a quite complete list of what worx and what -- not; ping him when he wakes.
asciilifeform: i solved this same problem for trb -- i.e. building 100% musltronic proggy with '9000' deps , on a conventional box ☟︎
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it's unclear that a musltronic version of euloratron is in way easier to achieve atm because of dependencies
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you were making simply a musltronic version of euloratron, it could be done rotor-style (buildroot env) . but sounds like you want cuntoo straight away.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827977 << 're-emerge' seems to imply systemwide ? you're more or less guaranteed a borked box, muslism has to be done either rotor-style (i.e. 100% user-local build of 1 proggy at a time) or systemwide ( trinque's cuntoo ), on account of the impossibility of cleanly linking glibc libs to musl proggy or vice versa ☝︎☟︎
diana_coman: I should add in case it's not clear that part of the reason for trying to do it starting from a conventional gentoo is that it gives a recipe to apply afterwards (if it works, obv) to current server too
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 00:25 mod6: jurov: just as a reminder, http://deedbot.org/bundle-526308.txt
asciilifeform: phf: i thought you had a working dos emacs..?
phf: emacs still has msdos folder in tree, all the way to 26. i wonder if that still compiles, or the folder is a lie
asciilifeform: a complete dos toolchain would rock unspeakably.
asciilifeform: 'build that iterates over the keys of a Perl hash will have problems, since these elements are also returned in a variable order' << perlism has gotta go.
asciilifeform: 'Unix doesn't specify an order in which readdir() and listdir() should return the contents of a directory, so components can get built in an unpredictable order' << this is gonna need a cure.
asciilifeform: 'Lamb referred to a build that had been made non-reproducible by a 15-digit random number that was generated during each build and baked into the resulting binary. It turned out that it was used as an OpenID secret, which meant that everyone running a given build of the software was using the same secret key.' << genius...
asciilifeform: also didjaknow! , 'Building everything from sources that one has hand-inspected is a solution to this, but it doesn't scale. Many of us aren't qualified to spot security weaknesses...' etc
asciilifeform: 'In the tricky middle ground of 95-96%, his position would depend on why builds were non-reproducible, as there are a few valid reasons for this to happen. In response to another question, he said that two good reasons for a non-reproducible build were packages that build inside their own virtual machine, such as Emacs, and security packages with signing keys such as secure boot. ' << lolwaaat
mod6: jurov: just as a reminder, http://deedbot.org/bundle-526308.txt ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-20 16:46 mircea_popescu: which brings us to : ben_vulpes would pizarro be amenable to bring up the spare sometime so she makes it a full gnat musl thing, test whether we can move everything there, and either move it (so basically, moving servers) or else backing down (so basically i guess either renting both for a while or powerting back down the spare) ?
mircea_popescu: and in other "ddr trainset" memorabilia, went by wurstspezialitäten tienda, got gal a packet of maoam
asciilifeform: right, ave1 produced a working self-builder gnat. nobody's bolted it into a gentoo in such a way that ~everything~ gets built with it, of yet. ( this as i understand is in the cuntoo conveyor )
mircea_popescu: so it's a fully ada/musl machine.
mod6: <+diana_coman> asciilifeform, BingoBoingo it is NOT asap, no; take your time, no hurry << barring a straight out emergency, I can't get away at the moment. About a month ago, I was trying to plan a trip around end of July; but now, that's locked out.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: ^ plox to confirm << >> <+asciilifeform> there is a 860 in bilge, marked 'tbf' << sounds like TBF has a spare 860 then. makes sense.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: plox to gpggram to BingoBoingo , tracking # etc, when it has sailed << Between these and the disks... mod6 interested in a trip?
asciilifeform: i just now tried the quote , it's a linear equation
asciilifeform: even so, better to start the train going, so disks etc can be 'yes!! we have disks!' if suddenly a primary box goes up in smoke, rather than 'oh hmm where do we get some disks'.
asciilifeform: there is a 860 in bilge, marked 'tbf'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I sent a signed and encrypted cabinet inventory report, can repaste
asciilifeform: hey ben_vulpes do we have a Troo Full Inventory posted somewhere ?
asciilifeform: iirc there is also a cold spare ssd belonging to mod6 , can work something out with him.
asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu if you need this box asap, it is possible to pull the hot spare from primary and make a single-disked staging box out of the spare.
ave1: Yes, that one looked like a build / host / target def problem. Which usually goes back to the build-tarballs line.
asciilifeform: ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-03#1820460 >> https://archive.li/mFPtM << not a memory problem ☝︎
ave1: asciilifeform, I did get it to cross compile on aarch64 too, it was a question of more memory. Do you still have an error log? Also the order has to be correct in the build-ada.sh. Like so: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-04#1820499 ☝︎
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> diana_coman: plox to gpggram BingoBoingo re necessary qty of FGs, the raid geometry to use ( 5? 10? ) , necessary # of nic connections, he will bring up the box. << The server needs drives to set up a raid
asciilifeform: a musl-gnat is first built, using a conventional gnat; this is then installed in user homedir, placed in path, and becomes the active gnat; with which then can build musltronic proggies.
asciilifeform: i do not presently have a cuntoo box
a111: Logged on 2018-06-03 18:36 asciilifeform: ch10 ffa builds a (stripped) 320kB elf
diana_coman: so there is a chance it'll work; if not, at least I'll know what part is even more idiotic than the rest
diana_coman: i.e. on a musl system I can rebuild everything or not?
asciilifeform: ( there may be a pill to work around this, but i do not currently know it )
diana_coman: the server is a ball of fuck that was trimmed from earth-size to country-size, but still
mircea_popescu: which brings us to : ben_vulpes would pizarro be amenable to bring up the spare sometime so she makes it a full gnat musl thing, test whether we can move everything there, and either move it (so basically, moving servers) or else backing down (so basically i guess either renting both for a while or powerting back down the spare) ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: in other news, diana_coman reports that we've actually managed moving the actual server on a .gpr process ; there's some remaining problems with linking bits, but seem perhaps resolvable.
diana_coman: (for the innocent reader, see point #2 in http://trilema.com/2014/a-compendium-of-basic-points-about-bitcoin-for-the-benefit-of-various-confused-noobs/#selection-127.0-127.77)
FundsAreSafuh: The thrill of buying 60 BTC, and spending it all on cannabis. The exhilaration of learning PGP for the first time. The realization that FeedZeBirds was a scam. ☟︎
FundsAreSafuh: I guess nostalgia brought me back, and the realization that things are never going to be the same. I'm just a former MPOE holder come back to join the ol' gang
FundsAreSafuh: I made a small fortune trading Friedcat's ASICMINER shares on GLBSE, before Nefario disappeared. Now I'm a crypto nomad spending time between NYC and the Republic of Panama
asciilifeform: e.g. 'i am a chimney sweep from calcutta, and i break nsa block ciphers in spare time' , format.
asciilifeform: not having been a reader of tardstalk, asciilifeform does not know who is FundsAreSafuh . care to introduce yourself ?
ave1: I used to program in Smalltalk for work, was a lot of fun.
ave1: I'm currently on vim again with a lot of work done on in bash.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/so-im-having-a-cup-of-coffee/ << Trilema - So I'm having a cup of coffee...
phf: honestly half of the ones i saw, from a totally different range of companies, look familiar, but i suspect that at least moscovites got the ussr version, probably something like this http://scaletrainsclub.com/portal/images/portal_files/vasily/istoriya_proizvodstva/ov_05.jpg
mircea_popescu: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/M%C3%A4rklin_2881_-_KPEV_S10_1008.jpg/800px-M%C3%A4rklin_2881_-_KPEV_S10_1008.jpg << definitely ; had this exact item.
mircea_popescu: mine were definitely rigid. pre-curved elements. had to mix and match, i had a ballot of them
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform https://www.maerklin.de/en/products/z-scale/locomotives/ << check this out a) apparently it was maerklin ; b) still available.
mircea_popescu: let's see how far this goes. square, olive green converter box, with a white selector, sorta angular shape ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the plastic pine trees, round things go on a stick ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, beautiful handpainted railcars, too, had a double beer barrel thingee, all sorts.
mircea_popescu: even something as simple as a figure 8 with 2 engines of diff powers was fun to watch
ben_vulpes: "flies" is a bit strong; i like big kinetic-energy toys and have friends with them.
ben_vulpes: any goon can get a powered bird to do simple things
phf: well shit buy him a squirrel suit then i dunno
ben_vulpes: i eventually learned that unless i can feel the gs in the seat of my pants i have trouble giving much of a fuck
phf: but yeah, there was a shortage of age appropriate games in russia. parents would keep you from breaking something by basically going "if you break it, i'll give you away to mr. policeman" and such.
phf: ben_vulpes: well, you need a nice length of tracks, nor do you need to make it a circle (just close the circuit by other means). it can figure nicely in any kind of gameplay, but honestly it gave me my first experiential understanding of electricity
ben_vulpes: phf: i had a set quite like that as well, but never got into it. "so, it goes around? and if you go too fast, it pops off the track?" brio also more for the 2-5 set
trinque had a proper brio set as a kid
phf: i guess this was also popular in u.s., because i'd see it in movies and such, and presumably original mit hackers were model train fans, but i take it it's not really a 80s-90s kids thing..
phf: traditionally in ru we had https://www.fleischmann.de/en/productsearch/0-0-0-0-0-0-0-001001-0/products.html which was powered from outlet and down converted. trains would go, when place on conductive tracks and you controlled the speed with a potentiometer, so there's some fucking montesori going on
ben_vulpes: the fuck kind of kid wants to watch a train roll about at 1 cm/min
ben_vulpes: i have a stack of blank index cards upon which i write or draw whatever thing i feel like training the kid on at any given moment. "memory" games with shapes and letters and numbers, the alphabet and numbers, just starting in on word shapes. beyond that, no blinkenlichten, no plastics, a commitment to correcting diction and grammar all day and i'm pretty sure one's into diminishing returns after that
mircea_popescu: but yes, the universal, uniyelding, perpetual and ubiquitous problem of "people" who were born even though god didn't have souls to supply the meat with is this : life's too heavy a burden.
esthlos: to be fair to egan, the actual supposition is not that consciousness exists "in" computer, but that it has a mathematical representation. not that it affects mircea_popescu 's point
phf: yeah, a computer program will produce the same result whether it runs on slow cpu or fast cpu. fascinating read.
asciilifeform: it's a phlogiston.
mircea_popescu: not anymore than remanence of vision can exist "in" a camera.
mircea_popescu: esthlos consciousness can't exist "in" a computer.
asciilifeform: esthlos: i do not know whether egan knows this, but buncha doped californirasts took his 'software souls' thing and turned it into a religion, of sorts
asciilifeform: esthlos: d00d was sorta obsessed with this notion. he had another, earlier short story where mob boss is walking a schmuck into the forest to be shot, and tells him this yarn, and offers him a magic pill that will make it sink into his head, and ends up taking it himself, and eating own pistol
esthlos: my vague understanding is: if consciousness can exist "in" a computer, then what happens when the cpu states are reorganized arbitrarily, or distributed spatially? egan supposes that conscious entity can't detect the effect.