29700+ entries in 0.017s
lobbes will admit
to committing cardinal sin of not fully reading
the cuntoo bootstrap scripts before my first run-through (which
trinque rightfully whacked me over
the head for)
mircea_popescu: one somethong
to do with
trinque 's unhapiness with
the cuntoo userbase ;
the other something
to do with wtf
to do re v & portage/ebuilds.
mircea_popescu to bed. but ima
try
to be on
tomorro (tho prolly on
the viaje nick) because it seems
to me
there's
two different layers of unhapiness preventing cuntoo from making meaningful progress, neither of which properly gotten
to
the bottom of.
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 19:03
trinque:
these communicating over gossipd makes a pretty clear picture
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 18:36 asciilifeform: i.e. connect
to one, its state changes, and it sends message
to others, which majoritate ?
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 18:22 asciilifeform: cuz imho an envir where you can build yer os/proggies at home,
then upload whole
thing
to piz (or even yer own box wherever) an' run, and
then snapshot, download state, run again at home, or (exotica) sync 2 running instances -- would be a win
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 18:17
trinque: perhaps all
that's needed
there is a cut ISO.
mircea_popescu: this isn't because "we're building housing for
the sort of braindead morons who literally can not avoid walking into fire", but because "holy shit, spending life avoiding spurious pitfalls is such a sad way
to go about
things".
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 18:09
trinque: and perhaps
this is what's wanted, but
the ubuntu-like installer
that supports all hardware without anyone needing
to learn
to spin a linux kernel is a different kind of item
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919297 <<
there's an immense difference between usability and nurturing idiocy. yes, "not walking into open flame" is basic
test of cns functionality ; nevertheless patterns of bursting flames on
timers are found in video game platformers, not in between one's bedroom and bathroom.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2019-02-06 04:21
trinque: hanbot: hm,
this got right past me.
the cuntoo builder is 64bit only at
the present.
mircea_popescu: now, if you wish for your
takeaway from
this
to be "hanbot is not cool enough
to run cuntoo"
that's your priviledge, but i
tell you i don't see
the wisdom. for
the same money you could say you never read
the damned scripts, and butress
the claim on eg
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-06#1893199 ☝︎ a111: Logged on 2019-06-04 12:12 diana_coman:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-04#1917013 -> until we change OS basically;
the
test one was step
towards Cuntoo and
that's pretty much
the only real reason for having 2 since playing around with
the OS on a production server is rather iffy.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-27 18:18 diana_coman: asciilifeform, smg's
test machine is running proto-cuntoo so it's not just any gentoo really
a111: Logged on 2018-07-23 14:08 diana_coman: eulora server is happily compiling on proto-cuntoo with ave1's gnat+gcc; all
tests passed so far, LOC greatly reduced
too, loads of shit cleaned away and discarded; we are looking forward
to move it
to production, so any eta for cuntoo?
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 18:07
trinque: I noticed
that not a soul read
the scripts
that bootstrap cuntoo
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 16:43 asciilifeform: re: loose ends: fwiw asciilifeform did in fact add
the final missing piece
to
mipstron. BUT! can't
test with
the
dummkopf's orig linux image as he... guess wat, his system had little-endian word accesses but big-endian byte read/write ! so his image in fact will boot on NO existing mips, nor any afaik other emulator.
mircea_popescu: you don't mean "pls
try again" as in, issue command again ? as opposed
to "put !!v strings in again" ? do you ?
trinque: was little more
than "pls
try again"; I
think you caught me before I updated records
mircea_popescu: whereas if we decide we dislike
the "packages" abstraction (and not merely dislike it a little bit, but quite a lot, enough
to justify a lot of rewriting)
then
the available solution's
to just make one big v
tree. coming with
the obvious problem
that if indeed
the whole world's just one
tree,
then
trying
to play BOTH duke nukem AND warcraft 2 will result in
two copies of
the kernel compiled, like if we were idiots.
mircea_popescu: in
this context
then, if we decide we like
the "packages" abstraction, for whatever reason,
the obvious solution would be
to maintain ebuilds of various vtrees as packages, and emerge
them into a desired pile
together.
mircea_popescu: whereas implicit v-ism would be "all code is made one pile,
then built once and linked, and
that's it".
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i suppose
the one
true break here, is
that portage system actually excepts
to build and link by bits. "out of
the codemass intended
to be used, arbitrarily selected portion A is built and linked first, producing object files,
then B is built and linked against
those binaries"
mircea_popescu: well, in gentoo world. in
tmsr world, what orchestrates
that is v.
trinque: what orchestrates building A first,
then B, and finally C
that links A and B, is portage
trinque: moving every needed package
to gprbuild will
take years, and sure.
mircea_popescu: well, wouldn't
this be better
than just moving everything over
to portage ?
trinque: yep, if it had a sensible build system, and
the work was done
to port needed items
to
that build system, portage would be obviated
mircea_popescu: so is rather
the problem
that v-tron doesn't come with
the right
toolkit ? should get a
tar and an interface for make ?
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 18:06
trinque: lmk if still not getting anything
trinque: the deal of portage is it does what'd otherwise be days of pointless labor untarring and making programs
to stand up a new system
mircea_popescu: at
the very rock bottom of
this :
the ~deal~ of portage is
that it installs
things for you without you necessarily understanding why.
this is
the pay-off, yes, "you don't have
to be concerned with every little detail" or however it goes. and
the cost for
this is,
that you don't get
to understand how it installs
things for you. because ultimately, you don't, whether you want
to or not entirely immaterial, ungermane an' spur
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 22:00 mircea_popescu: i mitigate
this problem by very pointedly only buying certain kinds / classes.
trinque: retrieving from power rangers can be snipped off
trivially
trinque: this is why I packed every dep
tarball into my snapshot
mircea_popescu: i mean, maybe all local wot failed
to sign a patch portage deemed essential so it downloaded it from power-rangers.net. yes ?
mircea_popescu: that also wouldn't be a
trb server, practically speaking.\
trinque: mircea_popescu: end up with a working
trb-running server more quickly
than I do
today
mircea_popescu: trinque, let's go at
this a different path. what would you even do with a
trb ebuild ?
mircea_popescu: i evidently have,
the damned story's in
the recent logs.
trinque: my contention is
there won't be gentoo
to speak of in
that world, which is desirable, and far ahead yet.
mircea_popescu: so
then don't go at me with "calibers" and other such selg-aggrandizing nonsense, mr alchemist man.
mircea_popescu: trinque, yes, but how about actually giving
this
teeth from
the get go, in
the sense of working out some sort of something
that both conserves
the gains and opens up gentoo
to being raped raw
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 22:01 mircea_popescu:
trinque, if everyone includes ebuilds of everything and in a few years'
time everyone's just doing portage because "it's easier, man" ima be very damn sad.
mircea_popescu: you understand
this, yes ?
there's no definite utility
to computers. for all
the promises of grandeur and wunderbarness, a gun's a gun's a gun, and a computer's a smartphone's a
tivo.
trinque: asciilifeform: heh, wealth opens up
these approaches!!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform,
there's nothing
to do between a gun and a computer. a gun is a
tool. a c omputer is a piece of shit.
mircea_popescu: trinque, if everyone includes ebuilds of everything and in a few years'
time everyone's just doing portage because "it's easier, man" ima be very damn sad.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i mitigate
this problem by very pointedly only buying certain kinds / classes.
☟︎ trinque: implicit in
this is no approval of staying still
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem here is
the implicit dwim-ism involved in "i don't have a vax/dec/cuisinart, i have a COMPUTER, as in
the abstract"
trinque: that human forms only ever approximate
the godly ones, even if always approaching
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, suppose fellow wants ffa. how does he pick
the one he needs ?
trinque: possibly
tangent, but imho
there needs
to be a distinction between
the language of
the gods (and
the rules
thereof) and handbook of suitable places
to
take a shit.
mircea_popescu: just
the "merely not liking rain doesn't
turn off
the storm" portion of it.
mircea_popescu: both
the mips and
the x86 ffas pretend
to ffa, do
they ?
mircea_popescu: because it doesn't seem like so much of an idea
to me.
mircea_popescu: don't
tell me your idea is "ifdefism only acceptable if done by hand"
mircea_popescu: if
tomorrow we have a ffa-for-pc and a ffa-for-mips alternative,
there WILL BE AN IFDEF.