231900+ entries in 0.149s
a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 17:46 phf: i'm already spelunking logs for v history,
to go on another
trip at
the moment :)
phf: word on
the street,
that u.s. alibaba office is hiring like crazy, and
that
the salaries are so high, microsoft/amazon/apple no longer attempt
to match compensation in
the event of
the poaching. so "blacklist"
mircea_popescu: ah whatevs. dude what a fucking
tabloid
this nytimes is. no, us didn't "blacklist" anything.
mircea_popescu: the republic is undefeatable ;
the empire is indefensible.
mircea_popescu: the boys are shockingly shy, it surprised me. 10 years ago used
to be about 100x more virulent.
mircea_popescu: hahaha.
this ~has not yet appeared~. no mention. 0. it simply does not occur.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, speaking of misfortunate subhumans : anyone care
to guess
the most frequent answer my bot gets ? it's "most frequent" in
the sense
that
the next-frequent is like 2 std deviations rarer. hint : it's a question.
phf: asciilifeform: actually Esperanto was big in su. it was not an anathema
to say
that in
the communist future
the peoples of
the word are going
to speak not just Russian, but also some other, better, universal language. certainly interstellar
trade would need something better. or when you
talk
to machines.
mircea_popescu: on
the other hand i could readily notice
the havoc
this had wrought upon her poor brain.
mircea_popescu: but fwiw, serbian chick stands out in my mind, she was 19, her poor head had just come out of 12 years of which 6 were spent doing cyrilics and
the other 6 doing ~BOTH~ latin and cyrillic and who genuinely
thought
that you know,
this is BETTER EDUCATION!! because where other people got one, she got both!!1
phf: i still remember how my hired driver crossed
the state line and had
to speak a very broken english with
the locals
to ask for directions
mircea_popescu: well, india is a sort of china's africa. except
the chinese were
too lazy
to properly fuck
theirs.
mircea_popescu hasn't fucked
that many indian womenz has not much clue as
to
their native barking system.
phf: indian children still mostly speak conlang "by
this measure".
there's something like 15 ~official~ dialects, all of which have a significant post panini sanskrit incursion so
that in say malayalam you have
two different ~grammatical~ structures available
to express
the same
thing, malay and sanskrit.
mircea_popescu: but w/e, maybe my very dim view of "scholarship" in
the field is entirely unwarranted, i'm just a meadhater and library contains "a river of gold",
to quote obama.
mircea_popescu: you have a better shot at finding well written c-s implementation in
the library.
mircea_popescu: now
this may well be a great use for one linguist-anthropologist's career. you wanna be it ?
mircea_popescu: wolf children of india also spoke "conlang" by
this measure.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
the problem is
that for most people, language is
the only
thought-amplifier
they have. once you
teach
them a non-language
they're very severely fucked.
mircea_popescu: natural language dictionaries are usually in
the 100k symbols range ; however natural languages altogether are very large graphs, and i'd venture in
the yottabyte range.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-11 19:54 mircea_popescu: phf suppose you make an ai expert system
to beat us at go.
this gives you
two practical options : either include 10gb worth of binary flags preset ; or else have us beat it at go for 10 centuries before it gets
to where it plays like a freshly fucked 19yo.
phf: well, asciilifeform's reaction
to it is consistent
to his perspective on conlangs, so i learned something
mircea_popescu: it's just not clear if it has much substance on
the jaguar's side. but clearly when ~you~ look into its eyes, ~you~ perceive a soul
there.
phf: i'm not here
to ~defend~ common lisp, i made an analogy
that didn't stick
phf: elt can potentially escape in
the error clause
to handle extensible sequences (and it does on SBCL)
phf: asciilifeform: elt is a sequence operator, nth is a cons cell operator. cons/car/cdr/nth/list etc. you can express nth in
terms of car/cdr. you can't express elt in
terms of any of
those
phf: asciilifeform: last
time i said
that cons structures and sequences solve
two entirely unrelated problems. cons specifically is a fundamental memory management abstraction for a von neumann machine (it solves
the insert problem), so has its own set of operations
that can predictable performance and behavioral characteristic.
mircea_popescu: this otherwise defensible stand (at least in general) is why computer languages may never become more
than shopping lists ; but
then again fashion-behaviour (as seen in both languages and github/reddit) may have
the last word.
phf: i'm already spelunking logs for v history,
to go on another
trip at
the moment :)
☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: we had
this
thread, and i had an answer for you
that you didn't like
phf: lisp natively, you find all
these nooks and crannies in
the language
that facilitate. nothing like
that exists in scheme
phf: another
take on
this might be common lisp vs scheme. cl was standardized after
the fact, existed and evolved on lisp machines. i'm looking at mit's cadr at
the moment, and at a certain point you have maclisp, interlisp, zetalisp and "common lisp" all coexisting on
the same machine, 10 years before
the standard was written. scheme on
the other hand was esparantoed for a purpose.
the result is
that as you move closer
to speaking common
mircea_popescu: you will ~never provide a better solution
to
the waterflow via running equations
than via running
the fucking water.
mircea_popescu: yes, but
they were idiots in another way : much like stalin's central planning committee (as implemented by
the stuart court in london) can't beat
the disorganised merchants of
the low countries - just so five dorks with nary a clue can't compete with
the combinatorial experimentation of
the actual pigdin.
mircea_popescu: and your objection
to "ukrainian" which is a lulz much like
the "croatian" for instance doesn't come and isn't informed nor supported by "the poor quality of conventions employed". it's its lack of history
that marks it, correctly, as nonsense.
mircea_popescu: but
the historical matrix of language (on which for instance myth is merely encoding artefact of lived experience) is
the key ingredient
to language - which is why romanian, a language spoken by a people for many years is much more powerful
than enlgish, a language spoken by much more mongrels, but not so long really.
mircea_popescu: yes, eventually, once v is so old
to have been forgotten like
the original calculations for
the pyramids, robots will perhaps have enough linguistic history
that you could pretend idiomatic-c is no less a language
than latin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform robots
that speak natural languages ? where
this, at mit ?
mircea_popescu: language ~is a convention~, yes, but it is ~made from~ experience ; not consensus. people don't say "people"
to denote people because ~they~ agreed
to, but because people in
the past ~have~.
mircea_popescu: viable conlang is impossible for
the reason woman-cut-from-marble is impossible :
the substance uses lacks
the capacity for
the intended usage.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: anyway ; language reform sometimes works - but
this because it was a language, not because it was reform. similarily
to how cutting fruit
trees works, but
this is because
they are
trees, not because of
the cutting. if you cut a broom whatever way it's not gonna make plums.
mircea_popescu: eh, hiding behind
that
to salvage your pretense
to engineering power is exactly how and why engineer kids are always
the ones who don't see any cunt at slut parties.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ok so
then if you know, what are you on aboot!
mircea_popescu: nor do
the average old women who put forth
their usual menopausal engineering pretense within my earshot and get
treated
to a large helping of stfu and make sandwiches.
mircea_popescu: the result was
that 3rd generation girls reverted naturally
to
the coy behaviour, and
the whole
thing is
today forgotten
to
the point you don't know about it
mircea_popescu: bear in mind
that at
the height of jewish idiocy (well, 2nd height, after being stupid in
the 30s) manifested as israel socialism, uppity bitches pretended
to "teach"
their daughters
to be naked in public because "no shame" because hey, old woman engineer
thinks herself powerful enough
to repress
the male gaze.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re
the "taught
their children" : engineer-parents are no fucking better
than engineers generally. and again
the dr moreau reference rules supreme.
phf: asciilifeform: so was Sanskrit, but at
that point
the line of "engineered" becomes very blured
mircea_popescu: much like serious
theologians in
the 1000s did
to idiot shamans.
mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea why
the postmenopausal worldview is even
tolerated by actual engineers ; if i
thought myself one i'd actually spend half my
time having people a la "we'll make a language" whipped at
the public stake
mircea_popescu: and engineered languages are exactly an island of dr moreau, a place
that a) can't exist and b) whose only conceptual function is
to show how fucking unbearably
tedious old women are.
mircea_popescu: anyway. an airplane is very strictly not a bird without feathers ;
there's no relation
to a bird whatsoever, an airplane is a sort of bus not a sort of bird.
mircea_popescu: this can be
trivially verified at any party of models/sluts where we invite a few engineers.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a language is not a car nor an aeroplane. also engineers are not nearly as important ; or powerful as
they like
to pretend.
mircea_popescu: this is a stupid idea, not unlike "to make more compact human, without apendix,
tonsils etc"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
tbh,
the reason a "constructed language" is readily forgotten is precisely
the fact
that it was constructed.