log☇︎
21500+ entries in 0.186s
billymg: phf: ty and apologies for the simple questions. definitely learned a few more things about v this evening
phf: vtools_genesis is a very reduced gnu diff, which has a place for hash, but doesn't know how to produce one, until either sha or keccak is attached in later patches
billymg: mircea_popescu: happy i was able to provide a bit of light entertainment
billymg: i ran `make` after pressing and got a `vdiff` binary, used that one
billymg: a Makefile, yes, but don't see a vdiff.gpr
phf: billymg: at the top of your vtools directory, is there a file called "Makefile" and is there are file called "vdiff.gpr"?
phf: i suspect you only have the first patch applied, which comes with a makefile, and which will indeed produce a vdiff that doesn't know how to hash
mircea_popescu: this is a great conversation.
phf: billymg: did it come pre installed? you can do gnatmake --version for a point of reference
asciilifeform: ( but yes it's a proper ending, not a 'more studies needed'(tm)(r) )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: soo asciilifeform had a bit of sleep and wakes up and turns out the serpent thing has a twist ending
billymg: managed to press vtools and use vdiff to create a patch of the css tweaks for the "default" theme included in mp-wp http://billymg.com/downloads/mp-wp-css-refine.txt ☟︎
billymg: hi all, sorry i've been away for a bit. last weekend ended up being a social one and tonight's the first chance i've had to poke around with vtools
shinohai feels nostalgic watching a trb happily sing along again ....
shinohai: Just battled a round of that meself and won. Whiskey and limon ^.^
BingoBoingo: It appears to take the occurrence of a serious cascade of failure.
BingoBoingo: Seriously though, asciilifeform has met me in person and confirm I am not built like a person who should be seeking out fights. Yet... It isn't rare to be walking about and the sight of some local dork fires something in the brain roughly equivalent to "they aren't as opprosed as they are signalling they should be"
mircea_popescu: fact : no female that sucked a mean cock was ever stabbed at night.
mircea_popescu: you're contemplating something along the lines of "today nov 1st the sun rose because someone said ''the sun also rises'' in a book"
mircea_popescu: yes, i get it, if those characters lucked out with a better author, they wouldn't be so fork-eyeingly boring and trite and omfg enough already.
BingoBoingo: You poison a rando you gotta poison the rando stoolies or pay them off to not notice you poisoned the rando they were told to keep tabs on in exchange for getting prettier twinks in their block
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: erry once in a while when planets align , these dickens chars step out of the page and actually do sumthing, neh
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the talking bags don'\t actually do anything or matter in any sense. it's like going "i wonder why dickens' characters didn't murder dickens, he's such a tedious pile of crap"
mircea_popescu: bvt what's a "bvt" anyway ?
bvt: i also intend to genesis a ffatronic base64 encoder/decoder that i wrote as an exercise (also todo for the weekend).
bvt: can't say these results are any useful until i write a summary (todo for saturday).
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with giving that a breather, see where heroes may lie hidden in the woodwork.
mircea_popescu: well, drop-in in the sense that once it's published ima ask trinque for a timetable for moving deedbot to using it ; and future aspirants to registration will have to use it, bake their own equivalent, or get lost.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: happens to be exactly what i set out to; on top of that, even got a gpg extractor (currently in py, but slated for adaization) , precisely for same ☟︎
mircea_popescu: ima pay s.nsa a coupla bitcoin for your trouble, and donate the result to the republic, in lieu of donating moar money to the dead end foundation.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform speaking of "taking suggestions" : suppose you bake me a proper drop-in gpg replacement. in ada, constant time, does FG-aware keygen, signing, verification, and encryption/decription. 100% rsa, none of the "cipher" bs as per current. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: linux, for instance, has a "code of conduct" instead.
mircea_popescu: hey, if there didn't exist a bunch of unwashed morons polluting san francisco bay area, such obvious statements wouldn't be needed.
mircea_popescu: in fact a lot of everything is very much like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-01#1868412 -- before republic tells you to go figure out talking to people, you don't know you can because you don't know to think to try. ☝︎
Mocky: I didn't have any more experience talking to orcs than chatting up chicks or writing c++, or rebuilding my bike engine back in the day, or fixing a million and one things for the first time. I don't know shit about shit. I never did
asciilifeform: for that matter, earlier, BingoBoingo : a++ terraformer
asciilifeform: so it is good that there is a Mocky
asciilifeform: 'time' aint a scalar, no, time spend balleting when yer 5 y.o. counts infinitely moar than same when yer 40
a111: Logged on 2018-08-24 18:39 mircea_popescu: a shop of used computer parts is a great complement for a dc op.
mircea_popescu: take http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844323 ; the one thing the bimbo whose summaries you don't like and whose marked improvement over time you disparage had to say was "oh, great idea. we did that at purdue, made a lot of money." she happens to be right, too ; she also hasn't the decades of doing this. or anything else, for that matter -- she can barely speak english. ☝︎
asciilifeform: it's a cost of specialization / finite hrs in the day. i suppose i could prolly become a middling-to-ok chukcha talker, instead of what i do nao, if comes to it. but i dun think i will ever be a champ, i dun have the decades of doing it, that other folx have.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is not a+++ chukcha talker / polar explorer, this aint a seekrit, that crown goes to others.
mircea_popescu: we're not even talking "magic number only dragons know" sorta items here. take the easy example of "go dig up qatar/uruguay/whatever", not because im trying to underhandedly make you move but because it's a fabulously easy to see example.
mircea_popescu: im not disputing you're consciously trying to overcome it. but as a factual matter -- yes, very adverse.
asciilifeform: while we're on subj, mircea_popescu had a pretty interesting observation in '16, 'the boecks were rousted because we're on to sumthing, but we dun know precisely what yet'
mircea_popescu: yet a picture is starting to emerge.
asciilifeform: a++ heuristic, can take to the bank
mircea_popescu: i suppose this is a major (if unsurprising) moral of this story : always start with what htey don't discuss.
asciilifeform: could have very easily done same amt of spading, and not found. i dun even know if i'll find a reduction of the matrix, just yet.
asciilifeform: it's a problem common to pretty much all folx who experiment regularly with techno-crapolade
asciilifeform: sometimes i suspect that i threw mircea_popescu's 'how hard is $problem' meter out of all possible calibration, given as very often when asciilifeform posts a thing, it is result of year or two of experimentation; and on other hand if i put ~all~ of the intermediates and dead ends into the l0gz, there'd scarcely be any room for anyffing else
asciilifeform: ( if mircea_popescu dun need it, i'ma bake it anyway, it's imho a great demo )
asciilifeform: back upstack, this is why i even suggested rabinism, it's a less-expensive rsa that actually plugs into this hole.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-30 19:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ok, how about this : let K being the key n bits long (say 512), and let f(x) = 2 * K[0] * x ^ n + 3 * K[1] * x ^ n-1 + 5 * K[2] * x ^ n-2 + 7 * K[3] * x ^ n-3 + 11 * K[4] * x ^ n-4 +...+ 3643 * K[n-2] * x ^ 2 + 3659 * K[n-1] * x + 3659. f(x) will produce a pile of bits, this pile is cut in half and xored together, the result is cut in half again. one such half is returned as the prng output ; the other such half
mircea_popescu: (the whole idea behind eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867780 is that the only way for this to work is to have both a key AND an input. which... it is.) ☝︎
asciilifeform: right, took me a few sec to see that it aint
asciilifeform: then it's a perfectly valid injective expand, for whatever purpose.
asciilifeform: the 'nobody has priv' is not even a necessary condition, if you can make it so that only the parties who are actually party to the link, have it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: btw here, if we must, is an example of an injective key expander that is physically possible, but requires an exotic object : a rsa pub that nobody has the priv to. then can 'hash-expand' by rsa-enciphering message to it.
mircea_popescu: ie, not a cipher anymore, becomes blockcrypter.
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to it : "blockcipher takes 10 bits of P and no more ; spits out 16 bits of E exactly" a) needs entropy and b) probably reduces to rsa-with-oaep.
asciilifeform: it is possible to have a hash like this. simplest example,
mircea_popescu: imo there's a difference between "the hash for this plaintext is undefined" and "we've divided the space of possible plaintexts in synonimy rings for your convenience (which we separated packagely)."
asciilifeform: it's essentially what serpent's ( and afaik errybody's ) key inflater already does. except that it doesn't bother to tell you, simply shits out a colliding output.
asciilifeform: then you still have a hash, simply with unknown input space, neh
asciilifeform: i.e. 'sorry, this won't output a hash' ?
mircea_popescu: F(A)->B : bijective : each A has one and exactly one B correspondent. injective : each A has one value ; surjective if each B is corresponded.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. multiplication of primes, is a ~conjectured~ trapdoor, we dun have any provable trapdoors, nobody ever discovered such afaik )
asciilifeform: but if a transform is injective, it is necessarily reversible.
asciilifeform: there is btw a deeper point re key-expanders -- there is a fundamental contradiction between two of the things that folx both want from 'cryptographic hash'. one one hand, they demand 'not reversible', but on other hand they ~also~ demand 'conserves key space'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm moar of a coroner than oncologist.
mircea_popescu: hey, "why didn't you see the goat" is in the end a boundless question, "i just fucking didn't. i don';t know why, obviously it's there, but i did not see it"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dunno about this. even 3y ago i saw 10coin as a fortune.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: point being, i actually take the 'causes, not purposes' thing seriously. even have a poster ver. of it, for pet.
mircea_popescu: but the manager in me wouldn't never buy it, because management goes a certain way, and distrusts a certain way.
mircea_popescu: BECAUSE, bitcoin, and ~everything else in the republic this bitcoin is the currency of, ~~~EVERYTHING ELSE~~~~ has a very unlinear time function.
mircea_popescu: so a review of extant candidates is not a self-obvious first step in attempting to sit down for such a competition ?
asciilifeform: i have a 'i want to find out what it loox like in algebraic form , let's fpga it'
asciilifeform: i dun have a 'it's no good'
asciilifeform: i still dun have a proper 'winner' for that tourney ! and neither does anybody else
mircea_popescu: and i have like a strong suspicion that nothing else you did hence had the same btc/hour return, either.
mircea_popescu: it's healthy, let alone necessary, to rage in certain circumstances. this here being a fine fucking example -- because i still not for a second believe had you earnestly sat ass down in 2015 you couldn't have earned that 10 coin.
mircea_popescu: this should be a series of fucking cartoons.
mircea_popescu: might as well capitalize on Mocky 's experience turn it into a ruby gem, yes ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, maybe your thread. my thread was re "are we fucking idiots ?! we have a foundation that wants to publish statements of the nothing as its only output, we have a bunch of smart people not helping our own industry avoid pitfals, and in this vein forever" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: they can go to a posh afair and show the designs to each other.
asciilifeform: aha, http://trilema.com/2018/so-i-designed-a-block-chipher/
mircea_popescu: yes, im going to use a shittier-than-hoped for cipher, for lack of alternative.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu actually kicked off thread where 'could have replacement ? ' so added one to the record, in case a replacement turns out to be needed.
mircea_popescu: it's, as they call in busioness, "a no brainer" -- i ain't doing jack.
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu is a trained maths fella, in fact theoretically moar qualified than asciilifeform to have found it
asciilifeform: coad dun come into it, it's a mathematical find
asciilifeform: turning up the (potential! i aint even got a proof yet) weakness of the scheduler algo, took specifically the 'let's fpgaize, i think this is solid!' approach.
mircea_popescu: and yes, ima implement "a cipher alf doesn't like" over alf's objections. because the only way alf'd be a stakeholder in this is... if... he had participated at a usefgul time. not at the time he felt like.
asciilifeform: it's a software, neh.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you haven't launched $billion mars probe with serpent in silicon. so you have option ( not proposing 'let's rabin! right nao!' , it's naturally a measure-7-times-cut-1ce subj )
mircea_popescu: i suspect, if you care to know, that you have a major problem in that you only want to work on anything once it's too late. not coincidentally, but structurally, it being too late is principally part of the criteria impelling you to work.
mircea_popescu: and if you're curious -- the reason they "whisper" is because they have 0 confidence there's any listeners. and listener means a very specific thing : the sort of person who both a) meets the intelligence bar AND!!! ALSO!!!! b) does not hallucinate options. such as "oh, dun need to do this now."
mircea_popescu: not a matter of ~want~. i DO NOT HAVE THE OPTION.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun get it , you'd willingly use a broken cipher to make a point ?