log☇︎
200000+ entries in 0.12s
BingoBoingo: Also that shit is incredibly poisonous
shinohai: I've never tried personally. The woods behind my house however are chock full of Phytolacca decandra.
shinohai: No thanks to Spain, I can't be running of Moors from my garden all day.
BingoBoingo: Or at least that is my vague impression.
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> There are only two seasons in Georgia, slightly chilly and sweltering, humid summer << Too cold for citrus, too hot for legumes and cole crops
mircea_popescu: why did i think you liverd in like, southern spain
shinohai: There are only two seasons in Georgia, slightly chilly and sweltering, humid summer
mircea_popescu: shinohai most of the legume soil improvement happens through the root anyway
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> beans / lentils prolly work better for same purpose. << Clover works well too. Assuming shinohai's climate is too hot to get big legumes going
BingoBoingo: Technique can be adapted to the lawn. Sub tilling with overseeding root crops, and instead of glyphosate burn down with 2,4-D and substitute last tilling with patience
shinohai: But then I'd *really* want to eat the tasty lentils
BingoBoingo: * shinohai has only planted radishes and cucumbers, has shitty soil in new locale. << Protip: till a plot and sow densly with turnips/radishes. Do not harvest and burn down with glyphosate before first frost. Till vastly improved soil next year.
BingoBoingo: Have planted Black Krim, Cherokee x Carbon heirloom cross, Juliet Roma x Grape cross, Obligatory yellow cultivar, Beefmaster hybrid, and obligatory cherry tomatoe cultivar
BingoBoingo: Tomatoes also go well eated whole like an apple so long as consumed no further than 100 feet from the vine
BingoBoingo however has planted what should yield and incredible and constant variety of tomatoes until this fall's first frost.
shinohai: You can always opt for the other udder cheese in your neck of the woods, BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu is more than willing to share his dollar-a-lb bounty with l1 all-comers. i also made myself fruit salad out of [actually ripe] mango, [actually ripe] pineapple, [actually ripe] banmanas, drenched in fresh oj etc. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: From here good cheese involves inconvenient drive to Wisconsin
shinohai: I have no nearby monasteries unfortunately .... there is a farm in this little place called Ellijay nearby that makes decent goat cheese.
phf: there's a benedictine monastery in bangalore where make italian style cheese. considering how bad cheese is otherwise in the country, i'm contemplating making a pilgrimage to bangalore just to see how they do, next time i'm there
asciilifeform spends moar on cheese than typical homo redditicus does on rent. with quite variable results, in these savage lands.
asciilifeform: now this, is so.
mircea_popescu: anyway, today watched sunset by the pool, with dog and woman. dog is a friendly pitbull, woman has nice tits. there could be worse fates.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 01:05 mircea_popescu: but as a side point : i went to town yest, bought jug of milk. guy kept trying to warn me it's not milk! i bought it anyway. it is FABULOUS buttermilk. best i ever had. also got a strong sheep cheese and a mellower one. i am happy like i've not been in a long time - finally, food! like god at home made it!
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641243 <<< Hope it was much better cheese than the floating in ice, triple-wrapped variety from a few days previous. ☝︎
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu was by the sea then
mircea_popescu: i evidently wasn't in the right place.
asciilifeform: they had not yet learned to make cheese then ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu did not encounter all of this on his last run of CR ?
mircea_popescu: i tell you people - do not live with the plainsdwellers, for they are retarded and eat shit.
mircea_popescu: UNTIL I HAD THE FUCKING SENSE TO GO ON A HILL.
mircea_popescu: long have i sought the native foods of my land, and never have i found them before,
mircea_popescu: but as a side point : i went to town yest, bought jug of milk. guy kept trying to warn me it's not milk! i bought it anyway. it is FABULOUS buttermilk. best i ever had. also got a strong sheep cheese and a mellower one. i am happy like i've not been in a long time - finally, food! like god at home made it! ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's realy no more to it. ☟︎
phf: chukcha brings his novel to a su publishing dept. the editor reads it and goes "you know, you ought to read some classics, pushkin, turgenev, etc." chukcha goes "naw, chukcha is a writer, not a reader"
asciilifeform: so far i follow the logic..
mircea_popescu: disconsidering this fundamental in any manner opens the chasm of hell, in all its presentation from evil to insanity.
mircea_popescu: anyway, imo the principal point of the discussion is that knowledge, any knowledge, enacts a partition upon the world. this is the only difference - chucka and man are distinguished not by skin color, not by anything else but the overpowering fact that chuka doesn't know what to do with the rtg ; or with pushkin ; or with etcetera.
asciilifeform: greenblatt thought he could lead. etc
asciilifeform: self-perceived, this chiefdom.
mircea_popescu: i didn't perceive this cheifdom in the chief characters. mebbe my antennae too blunt, but who ? how ?
asciilifeform: which is sorta opposite, as i understand, to your hypothesis
trinque: and that the folks that "tried" in the first round lost because of deficiency of character
asciilifeform currently brain-melting over the total and airtight lack of any public data re beta-luminescence of lanthanide-strontium aluminate vs metal-doped zinc sulphide
trinque: dunno what's hard about the notion that look, you do not get computers until you have both the leadership category and engineering category maxed on your character
asciilifeform: who exactly, in mircea_popescu's model, are the monkeys ?
mircea_popescu: but yes i'm aware not being stupid results in a deary lack of monkey island special olympics participation trophies.
asciilifeform: and when the necessary transistors were finally ~free, they went to tlb cache instead so that winblowz could run 5% faster.
mircea_popescu: notrly how this works.
mircea_popescu: because yes the monkeys could win if not enough to eat, BUT you know this because there's 12 starved men.
asciilifeform: nobody starved, but the lispm was abandoned, the way moon rocket was.
mircea_popescu: other than rms.
asciilifeform: which imho is what happened. environment could not sustain the man.
mircea_popescu: "i think the whole charade is a sickening display, personally."
mircea_popescu: "who do you think will win, mr 13, the team with two guys and monkeys or the team with three guys and monkeys ?" ☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: the monkeys, as discussed in old thread, could easily win, if there is not enough for men to eat on the island.
mircea_popescu: well, on top of a world ontologically constituted as "12 men on monkey island" attempting to construct alternate world hallucinatorily constituted as "men and money teams compete for island special olympics". ☟︎
asciilifeform: what means to cross this line ?
mircea_popescu: crossed this line -> stupid.
mircea_popescu: at the time they did this, the world split. there were the people who built the "something quite like a proper comp", on one side. there were the people who did not so build, on the other side. you see this ?
asciilifeform: (they eventually resorted to 'credit card' and ended up simply making a titanic black hole for entire ~industry~ to fall into, when it finally imploded)
asciilifeform: or live long enough on 'credit card' to live to see the cheap-enough transistor.
mircea_popescu: alright, so then let's continue from there.
asciilifeform: but were unable to build it economically.
mircea_popescu: im not capable nor interested in specifying. fact remains - a dozen dudes either did something ro didn't do something. if they did something we can discuss the history of the thing they did and what it says about them ; otherwise, we can not.
asciilifeform: possibly i'm thick
asciilifeform: let's have expansion re the sense contempated by mircea_popescu then
mircea_popescu: but that is not the sense contemplated in context.
asciilifeform: my contention is simply that they failed to ~resolve~ their problem , in the sense of achieving item#2 from my http://www.loper-os.org/?p=305 essay
asciilifeform: which is in a way a parable re engineers going to the bottom of the sea
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is quite impossible to 'unconsider inconvenient problem' in a thread about bolix
mircea_popescu: phf im starting to understand the problem though. here it is : engineer will not consider inconvenient problems. NO MATTER WHAT. that is why he's an engineer : because paradigm made him a personal promise.
asciilifeform: phf: a bolix-style machine that -- hypothetically - could have cost-competed with the 'i can't believe it's not butter' state of the art, would imho count as 'resolve'
phf: there's only one computer asciilifeform acknowledges as "resolved", and that's the computer built by asciilifeform. i suspect similar dynamic was at the root of smbx/lmi
mircea_popescu: you will note however that ~all communication~ rests on hallucination in the sense here contemplated. and we're right back to 4->5.
asciilifeform: they took a serious technological risk - and lost, like dirigible; rather than won, like steamboat.
mircea_popescu: aite, then i guess it can't epxlained what the people invovled were stupid for having not done.
asciilifeform: early steamboats were expensive deathtraps (boiler explosions were still a quite familiar thing in mark twain's time, even)
mircea_popescu: look, there's no crevice here to slither into. either you grant "they did" or else you admit they didn't do anything. pick one.
asciilifeform: the trouble is that this is how tech actually advances
asciilifeform: the analogy is not a whim of asciilifeform's, it is quite exact -- what bolix et al did, was a 'stretch' of the tech of the time, quite near its breaking point
mircea_popescu: you'll have to pick a door (for the needs of this conversation only)
asciilifeform: bolix box would then be me262.
asciilifeform: say it was tried in ww2, and then not again.
mircea_popescu: so then why do you deny ?
asciilifeform: picture if we had no jet turbine.
mircea_popescu: so you don't particularily want symbolix metal, it\s just some random thing.
asciilifeform: i don't actually see it as resolved, even today.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform indulge me for a moment here. so, would you agree that a specific and specified problem (make a computer!) was actually resolved by a number of people ?
phf: asciilifeform: true king is a later invention, actual process is "choose king amongst yourself", and failure to do so is stupidity ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: what, exactly, were -- in mircea_popescu's view -- these people 'fucking stupid' for having not done ?
mircea_popescu: why is this important ?
asciilifeform: even 40+ yrs later, and to quasi-serious student of the subject, imho it is not clear who -- if anyone -- was 'true king'.
mircea_popescu: the mechanism is -- them not being fucking stupid.
mircea_popescu: except for them being not fucking stupid.
asciilifeform: so off he went, with subset of the possible participants.
asciilifeform: let's say for sake of argument that greenblatt was 'the true king.' he had no mechanism for somehow forcing the others to come along.
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as an actual dispute.
mircea_popescu: when you're the only twelve guys on monkey island you don't fucking disagree. because there's nothing to disagree ~about~. because there can't be.
mircea_popescu: the time for "debates" is when you're installed in power and are preparing to withdraw the power from the plebs. you create a trappings-of-power artefact through the magical working of dialectics, heap it upon them in exchange for the actual thing and move on. that's when you do "disputes".