log☇︎
2400+ entries in 0.126s
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's try something else. suppose key = 512 bit prime and suppose cipher works as E = P ^ K | 2^512.
asciilifeform: ( they're the same thing, if you had a provably working one, you get the other 2 gratis )
mircea_popescu: diana_coman E[2] = 1 (because P[2] = 1) xor 1 (because K[2] = 1 and RB2[2] = 1) xor 1 (because K[4] = 1 and RB4[4] = 1). thus E[2] = 1.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, but uhm, isn't that precisely the example I give in the comment and which leads to the wrong value? this: but with the formula above it would be E(2)= P(2) xor 0*P(1) xor 1*P(2) xor 0*P(3) xor 1*P(4) = P(2) xor P(2) xor P(4) = 1 xor 1 xor 0 = 0 .
asciilifeform: ideally what i'll find is a proof that there are exactly 2**256 528byte expansions .
diana_coman: no? (specifically, W(2) = (RL11 (XOR C (XOR A D) (RL11 (XOR B E G (RL11 (XOR A D F H #9e3779b9 0)) #9e3779b9 1)) #9e3779b9 2)) )
diana_coman: asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867369 -> there's something I don't get here: if A xor D xor F xor H = 0 then this imposes F xor H = A xor D and so you'd need to substitute that everywhere else because F and H are not anymore free to be whatever or the initial a xor d xor f xor h won't hold anymore; more precisely: further down the line for instance at W(2) that F xor H is in fact A xor D so A does actually still appear, ☝︎
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local news 2 kilos of meth per person cuffed, moving up in the world https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/incautaron-10-kilos-de-metanfetaminas-y-hay-cinco-brasilenos-detenidos-2018102922040
asciilifeform: and c -- in w(2) ; d -- in w(3) .
asciilifeform: err if i encrypt message=2 with key=10, i get same 5 as if i encrypt message=7 with key=10
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if i encrypt message=2 with key=10, i get same 5 as if i encrypt message=2 with key=10
asciilifeform: .. and how do i eat P[2] = P[2] x P[3] x P[5] , it's recursive
mircea_popescu: E[1] = P[1] x P[2] x P[4] ; P[2] = P[2] x P[3] x P[5] is what i meant.
asciilifeform: how does P[1] = P[1] x P[2] x P[4] work
asciilifeform: and you prolly meant 'P[1] = E[1] x E[2] x E[4] ;' neh
mircea_popescu: for a 5 bit key you only have to try 2^3 permutations or so, it's true. but anyways.
mircea_popescu: To obtain P back from E without K : P[1] = P[1] x K[1] * P[1] x K[2] * P[2] x K[3] * P[3] x K[4] * P[4] x K[5] * P[5] ; P[2] = P[2] x K[1] * P[2] x K[2] * P[3] x K[3] * P[4] x K[4] * P[5] x K[5] * P[6] ; and so following all the way down.
mircea_popescu: To now obtain P back from E and K : P[1] = P[1] x P[2] x P[4] ; P[2] = P[2] x P[3] x P[5] ; P[3] = P[3] x P[4] x P[1] ; P[4] = P[4] x P[5] x P[2] ; P[5] = P[5] x P[0] x P[3].
asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uX1BM/?raw=true << for convenience, the recurrence eqs rewritten 1) as sexpr 2) with the orig constant-xors included
asciilifeform: you dun need 'acres of crays' to walk 2**64 or however many, troo-keyz.
asciilifeform: thus far, afaik, we already know that there aint 2**256 possible 528-byte serpent expandedkeys. nor 2**128. and as i currently suspect, not even 2**64 .
asciilifeform: W(2) = RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))))))
mircea_popescu: and the reverse is 1,2,3,4.
asciilifeform: well i put in {1,2,3,4} and out came {1,2,3,5}.
mircea_popescu: can't throw in 5. the P set is 1,2,3,4.
asciilifeform: let's try this. so i throw in {1,2,3,4,5} and the rng cranks and i get a {1,2,3,5,5}, then i put it back and rng cranks again and i get a {1,2,3,4,4}, with nonzero probability. so i reversed ??
mircea_popescu: consider the sets P {1,2,3,4} and E {1,2,3,4,5}. now, the function taking all numbers <4 to themselvews and 4 to either 4 or 5 with 50-50 probability IS in fact reversible (because E5 and E4 are directly P4). is however not in fact entropy conserving.
mircea_popescu: consider the sets P {1,2,3,4} and E {1,2,3,4,5}. now, the function taking all numbers <4 to themselvews and 4 to either 4 or 5 with 50-50 probability IS in fact reversible
asciilifeform: let the key words (32bit ea.) be A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H. so W(-8)=A, W(-7)=B, W(-6)=C, W(-5)=D, W(-4)=E, W(-3)=F, W(-2)=G, W(-1)=H ;
mircea_popescu: and it's almost 2/3 ?
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1866992 >> using a variation this algo you can stuff a block half full of bits without any 2 consecutive bits being from a known plaintext, while the accumulating xor prevents the penguin ☝︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this isn't much of an argument, let alone "proof". + and * also conserve entropy, yet y=x/2 - x/2 +4 does not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: somewhat related observation: designers of blockciphers are fixated on 'what if known plaintext block', but it is not clear to me why this has to be a living problem when you can fill up 1/4 or 1/2 or whatever of block with rng
deedbot: BingoBoingo rated nicoleci 2 << Mircea's chattle, summarizer in training, Outside the Wire
BingoBoingo: !!rate nicoleci 2 Mircea's chattle, summarizer in training, Outside the Wire
BingoBoingo: !!rate nicooleci 2 Mircea's chattle, summarizer in training, Outside the Wire
asciilifeform: ( where 'normal' is ps/2 say )
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2627 << Loper OS - Serpent in ICE40, Part 2.
asciilifeform: 'As explained in Section 7.2, we use ASM.JS code in Firefox 50 to trigger the implemented x86 div Trojan. It is shown in Listing 9.'
asciilifeform: ( and conceivably, worth sumthing even if it takes having ~two~ on the board; problem is that i dun presently have a board with 2 , to actually try )
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866643 - to detail this: technically speaking one CAN test top bit until it's 0 for the oaep block (hence for *sure* < modulus) but I don't think it's great mainly because: 1. this fixes one more bit 2. it's really a way bigger hammer than needed - it can start with 1 and be smaller than modulus so potentially increases the number of repeat-oaep without any good reason 3. it's not even particularly clean, ☝︎
diana_coman: or b. make an Ada comparison of 2 arrays of octets
mircea_popescu: diana_coman http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/25/smg-comms-chapter-4-c-wrappers-for-rsa-and-mpi/#selection-45.2-45.209 << couldn't just test top bit ?
asciilifeform: i have a vaguely buran-like chinese thing, with 2 holes, but it eats paper filters, typical modern sad
asciilifeform: had, conveniently, 2 holes, suck hole and blow hole. dunno why this aint standard today.
asciilifeform: approx same 'by byte' as ordinary 2.5" samsungs
Mocky: they eyes are closing, passing out in 3... 2..
asciilifeform: ( and from this we get to 'why didja not write the proggy in asm, if it only worx on linux 2.4 on mips ' etc )
asciilifeform: btw, ftr, subj : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/romburn_1.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/romburn_2.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/romburn_3.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/romburn_4.jpg , in case anybody cares.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 16:07 asciilifeform: reminds me of process of buying autos in usa. picture, you walk in with chequebook. 'i want toyota' --- 3 hrs later, you MAYBE drive off in a toyota, or more likely yer still fighting over 'no, i do NOT want loan, not at 3%, not 2, not 0 , i want to pay with money'
asciilifeform: reminds me of process of buying autos in usa. picture, you walk in with chequebook. 'i want toyota' --- 3 hrs later, you MAYBE drive off in a toyota, or more likely yer still fighting over 'no, i do NOT want loan, not at 3%, not 2, not 0 , i want to pay with money' ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Kinda suggests the 2+3 option seems like it could be had sooner than a neutral field of gates FPGA
mircea_popescu: yes. but it's been 2 years.
asciilifeform: there's 2 well-known minuses. 1 is that yer making circuit out of immovable parts, connected by drawing line though multiple elements ( bus lines are generally few ) , this gives you much slower circuit with many fewer logical elements than if you had made the device physically from scratch .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've outlined several items, historically. will summarize for the l0gz, in order of descending ( per asciilifeform's lights ) universality : 1) sane fpga 2) sane minimal cpu 3) 8192-bit arithmetizer ( a la ye olde weitek! but for ints ) 4) 2+3 , if somehow can be fit into 1 die 5) 1chip carrierless radio ( per thread ) 6) sane ethernet controller .
mircea_popescu: we were discussing the "2-3" figure.
asciilifeform: and yes if you instead spend 2-3mil you get wafer, cut, and package, from china etc. but we were discussing 'minimal' fabs..
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865831 << it's a hand-cranked 'for small runs' shop, 1 of 2 known to exist. hence the riotous per-unit pricings. ☝︎
asciilifeform: sooo taking only the lower bounds ( 4mm^2 ; 700 eu. per mm^2 ; 30 eu. per tin can ) and not counting eu fees / taxes / exorbitant shipping couriers , and assuming 25 , we end up with a figure of 3550 eu, 'old toyota' gets you 25 units, some of which may even work...
asciilifeform: nao multiply it all by 2 or 3, because that's how many shots it usually takes to properly polish off ic product.
asciilifeform: a reasonable die is 4-10 mm^2 .
asciilifeform: here's what i was able to find , via the pdf turd : base charge is 700 -- 12000 euro / mm^2 , depending on density ( 0.35uM to 28nm ); this gets you 25 ~bare~ dies , + 'phree 15 if available' ;
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 01:26 asciilifeform: previously , from last 2+yrs of reading docs, i laboured under the impression that the only process that demands secondary stack, is ~returning~ variably-lengthed objects. rather than simply passing'em forward as 'in' param. which in erry context OTHER than generic, worx .
asciilifeform: previously , from last 2+yrs of reading docs, i laboured under the impression that the only process that demands secondary stack, is ~returning~ variably-lengthed objects. rather than simply passing'em forward as 'in' param. which in erry context OTHER than generic, worx . ☟︎
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 2 days, 2 hours, and 23 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> in bolix lulz : loox like dks relisted that 'ivory' for 3rd time nao... apparently not so many eager-worth-of-$5k archaeologists any moar
asciilifeform: Mocky: you're , what, 2 weeks into your 8 ? or what was it
asciilifeform: so revv-up time is never same for 2 units
asciilifeform: again for the l0gz/n00bz: this worx in practice, even if 2 boxes are started off same power supply, because of inescapable variation in the size of the power intake capacitors on each FG
asciilifeform: now, for an erryday piece of critical gear like otptron, i'd prefer an algo that ~provably~ terminates with correct (i.e. opposite polarity) pair, rather than 'oh it never ties in practice cuz no 2 crystals are exactly same' thing.
asciilifeform: correct, you need a sram big enuff to hold 2 blox.
asciilifeform: current FG moar than fast enuff, to do 1/year pad flights b/w 2 hypothetical points.
Mocky: yeah but that card took 2 months for FG x10 to fill, no?
asciilifeform: or if yer doing voice, 100*10**9 / ((9600 / 8) * 60 * 60 * 24) / 365.0 ~= 2.6 ~years~ of 9600 baud voice, with 100G card.
Mocky: ah yes, i see the 2 cards angle now
asciilifeform: the method where you exchange cards, has 2 wins: it is not enuff for enemy to get copy of simply 1 card, must get one of each ; and rng failure on 1 side doesn't sink you, you get combined reliability of the 2 rng's ( perhaps yours is of 1 type, and other fella's -- another )
asciilifeform: Mocky: it's an old idea of asciilifeform's -- otptron gets 2 sd slots. fill switch triggers fill-up of both with identical otp. then you fly to bananistan with ~one~ and trade with the other fella for his. then you both have identical xor of pad-a and pad-b, in the respective slots.
asciilifeform: ( at the cost of occupying 2, rather than 1, serial ports )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the 1 crackpottery i've considered adding to FG-2, is an 'authenticated' mode, where userland proggy gets ability to verify that rng bits actually came from a particular FG. the way to do it would be to have a keccak salt, printed on the board, and have the thing send , instead of naked bytes, packets, of b0,b1,...bN bytes, followed by keccak(salt, b0,b1,...bn) . could be enabled by jumper setting, conceivably.
asciilifeform: right nao, 2 FG ~just barely~ fit in a 1u serv, and it takes adhesive fasteners
billymg: right now i have two items in my queue 1) figure out how to submit a vpatch for mp-wp with those few lines of CSS tweaks on the default theme 2) write a completely custom mp-wp theme
lobbes: on my conveyor, absolutely. I still need to 1) finish de-heathenizing lobbesbot's functions 2) redo #eulora logs 3) get auxiliary #pizarro logs up 4) probably something I'm forgetting
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 10:00 jurov: ^^ the first try was !!pay BingoBoingo 2
a111: Logged on 2018-10-21 19:18 Mocky: no, i'm subletting a room via airbnb from a nigerian who rents it from someone who also sounds african on speakerphone. and thankfully unseasonably cool with now 2 years worth of rain in the last 2 days
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman : '6.3. The server will issue type 5.2 messages encrypted to the corresponding client RSA key in response to any client messages for as long as it doesn't have a preferred client Serpent key set. The client is responsible for either maintaining or explicitly burning ~all~ of these, and will pay for them in any case' means that if a serpent key is currently set, serv won't issue another unless client explic
asciilifeform: soo from my pov it's still a 4096bit key ( my rsa worx strictly on powers of 2 )
diana_coman: will probably cut it in 2 parts two, namely the wrappers first and then the whole big .vpatch bringing in everything needed (mpi, keccak, oaep-but-this-time-from-ada-only)
BingoBoingo: jurov: Can confirm that the "!!pay BingoBoingo 2" did not go through. Made a note to look out for it if it does pop up in my ledger at some point.
jurov: ^^ the first try was !!pay BingoBoingo 2 ☟︎
deedbot: jurov paid BingoBoingo invoice 2
Mocky: no, i'm subletting a room via airbnb from a nigerian who rents it from someone who also sounds african on speakerphone. and thankfully unseasonably cool with now 2 years worth of rain in the last 2 days ☟︎
diana_coman: so "impulsiveness" would be "don't think it through"? or "won't listen/care about more than 2 steps ahead"?
BingoBoingo: Mocky: It could also be that you hit the 2 week mark and the local viruses caught up to your presence
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: best as i can tell, nuffin but samsung n30, n150, lenovo s10-2 (but not s10-3, i opened one and no dice, cabling too short) will eat the thing.
asciilifeform: in moar minor noose, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863610 is a++ display but pretty sad box, i forgot just how rubbishy these were, cramped kbd with coarse molded plastic feels like sumthing straight from toy store, touch pad thing is the size of 2 postage stamps, arm rest creaks... ☝︎
Mocky: that reminds me how overstaffed everything is here. jewelry store in side a hypermarket, 7 dudes behind the counter. not enough room to all stretch arms out. 3 guards. zero customers. in the mall no matter where you go, will be in sight of 2 security guards
a111: Logged on 2018-10-19 09:36 Mocky: ie year one do this, year 2 do this...
Mocky: ie year one do this, year 2 do this... ☟︎
diana_coman: how's the "qatar week 2" coming along, Mocky ?
asciilifeform: iirc it is worse in 'flyoveristan', there they have regularly gas boom, takes out 1-2 blocks
asciilifeform: man with 2+ passports is already escapee, republikflucht, ohnoez