asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cDPk3/?raw=true

asciilifeform: lol check out what their www shat forth ?

asciilifeform: these look solid. tho i fuckinghate laces.

asciilifeform: sometimes i think half of the mud in the world, lives right here in swampistan

asciilifeform: mud esp.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: yea, the kind where you can do rain, shine, winter, summer, through standing water, wherever

asciilifeform: ( and will look for'em when i finally get the chance )

asciilifeform: i admit i have some difficulty picturing proper, winter-capable fur-lined boots sold in cr, but if mircea_popescu says he saw this, i will believe

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: holy mother of fuck is that d00d's www a snoar nowadays ☟︎

asciilifeform: i didnt see much worth buying in BingoBoingostan.. or was mircea_popescu speaking of his locale ☟︎

asciilifeform: how the fuck is it, that in '40s they not only had shoes that one could walk from moscow to berlin and back, but cheaply enuff that erry piece of cannon fodder could have a pair. ☟︎

asciilifeform: in usa you can walk into supposed shoe place ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769002 ) and pay $maxint, and will still get ~this ( not to mention , it's a lemon market, the folx with ~money here buy decorative fucktardery with wooden soles , not actually made for walking ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: filled'em with high pressure silicone for petrol pumps. but still fucking outrageous.

asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform walks ever closer to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-21#1882654 , the ro item http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-26#1729202 turned out to contain an exact 1x2cm ~purpose-made cavity~ in each heel, and they wore through simultaneously . i.e. obsolescence bomb. ☝︎☝︎

asciilifeform: could've sworn that item was subj of old thrd

asciilifeform: e.g. the infamous circle-squarers, sometimes produced book-length piles o'???

asciilifeform: 'pyramid' is typically product of 'linear mind' ( from mircea_popescu's recent piece on subj ) pilin' up whatever dung he could muster

asciilifeform: it's in the 'whole thing is a bridge to nowhere on acct of [noether's symmetry or other item perpetrator is entirely innocent of]'

asciilifeform: right! it's ~never in the 'pyramid' sense

asciilifeform: ( arguably a variant of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686299 thinking ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly was schwartz. had also a great point where 'crackpot will find how to take the 'proof' to where its demolition requires ever slightly moar advanced grasp of subj than he is able to muster'

asciilifeform: and hrm where was that three-cycle engine thread.

asciilifeform: buncha these.

asciilifeform: 'identifies similars as idempotents'

asciilifeform: 'won't commit to writing down an equation for love or money'

asciilifeform: wish i could dredge up the orig. but from memory it had a 'resists formalization' definitely

asciilifeform: was a kind of taxonomy of dodges/'fatlogic' gymnastics

asciilifeform: ( i dun recall whether was on trilema, or older, elsewhere )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this reads like ye olde (imho great, btw) guide to perpetuum-mobile aficionados

asciilifeform: oh neato, ty, i'll eat

asciilifeform: aa, the kind that runs off with 'investor'olade , rather than public coffer

asciilifeform: was this that very same 'varanul' ? or lesser clone ?

asciilifeform wonders whether e.g. that microshit compound in bucharest, is run along http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893837 trad, or ustard.conventionally ☝︎

asciilifeform: not many folx remember old champ tennisist either

asciilifeform: aa

asciilifeform: ugh wat happened there ? they built a mcd and she took up eating in it ?

asciilifeform: 'smellovision' when.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol! even in ro, '3d tv' ?!

asciilifeform: ( in re the q of how to keep thread from wedging ~each other~, consult dijkstra, not asciilifeform )

asciilifeform: ideally you wouldn't even i/o from a worker thread, imho, only main prog would i/o.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893807 << the 1 concern there is blocking unix i/o calls, these can potentially wedge ( if not wrapped with appropriate timeout ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: i admit i did not exhaustively peek in each

asciilifeform: incidentally virtually all the cages in BingoBoingo's magic cellar contain 1 or moar (old enuff to show yellowing...) desktops/towers

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893803 << i was reading this and waiting for the inevitable 'and then one day elbow' but apparently nodice ☝︎

asciilifeform: i.e. even ~there~ you dun have the desired 'thread could have been doing anyffin at all, but can cleanly async-term it' .

asciilifeform: incidentally, before $thread is forgotten, oughta add that unix's model of process-killin' is a convincing illusion, but not the Real Thing, given e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838388 ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: afaik what passes for comp nowadays ( where 'it dun fit on the pnoje screen!!11' ) often dun even ~have~ a reset.

asciilifeform: used to , at least.

asciilifeform: for extra lulz, asciilifeform's brother introduced the red button to him as 'эникей' , and for yrs later thought this, 'ha, programmers sadistically exhort green n00b to reset cpu'

asciilifeform: https://archive.is/mOXQE << for thread-completeness. iskra kbd. the magic 'anykey' is on upper left hand.

asciilifeform: it's a bitch tho, what you really want is to lose the wedge, rather than errything you keyed in the past xx min. hence asciilifeform's elaboration of the principle in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=215 .

asciilifeform: ( to the point that the sov pc clone 'iskra', 1st comp i ever laid hands on, actually had a cpu reset key ~on kbd~ , nice big red thing )

asciilifeform: aha, erry dos box i ever owned, i truly 'programmed with the mains switch'

asciilifeform: btw in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893771 , ye olde dos, for all of its virtues, is possibly worst example, when you run yer proggy there, os loses all control, you may as well have booted straight into yer proggy without any os ☝︎

asciilifeform: that also a broken soft of a kind.

asciilifeform: otherwise yer running abbatoir, with cows, rather than army.

asciilifeform: rright but with the implicit 'and after kill you, will get new one, who does what was told'

asciilifeform actually grasps mircea_popescu's pov quite well, after coupla decades with broken soft that does 'whatever it feels like', one starts thinking of 'i want control' in the sense of 'all i want is a big enuff spiked club to smash it all with'. but if you ~actually have~ proper control, cuz you wrote a correct proggy, then what you really want is 'feldmarschall's baton', not club.

asciilifeform: to run with mircea_popescu's analogy, you want to birth the sons such that they go, when ordered, to the seppuku room, lay down the white sheet, and carefully dump out their guts into the provided pot; rather than having to chop'em up in yer living room, where they'll shit selves, thrash around breaking the fine china, and make whatever other mess.

asciilifeform: aha, imho it's a 'yer iron is on fire' condition.

asciilifeform: pretty sure you can get at the underlying pthread and term it, if you gotta. just like you can get at raw c ptrs , as illustrated in e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_genesis . my observation aint 'shuddyp and suck, lang tied yer hands for yer own good' but 'if your proggy is actually correct, you won't find yerself ~having~ to individually scalpel out threads'

asciilifeform: the mains switch is right there lol

asciilifeform: rather than letting'em infinite-loop and having to async-kill'em

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you accomplish this by giving the subs a termination condition

asciilifeform: ( could be dead iron, say )

asciilifeform: this is entirely correct, if you have a wedgeable subprocess in a correctly-written proggy, there is a catastrophic mistake and time to switch whole thing off and find where.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the q is why you even ~have~ a wedgedeable -- i.e. having to be async-killed -- subprocess in yer proggy.

asciilifeform: in this case the thing is loaded, cocked, and pointing at yer foot.

asciilifeform: so it's same 'so' as 'hey i'll follow a dangling pointer if i damn well please, so'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you permit asynchronous killing of thread, ~any~ part of your proggy could conceivably end up as that N, you have nfi what that thing was doing when you shot it

asciilifeform: the appeal of asynchronous killing is an artifact of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892449 ☝︎

asciilifeform: and why wouldja want undefines in your proggy ?

asciilifeform: correct

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893706 << consider this gedankenexperiment: say you have an infinite loop, incrementing a variable N. at some point you asynchronously kill it. what is N then ? ☝︎

asciilifeform: could easily; no reason why this kinda thing gotta be limited to plant kingdom

asciilifeform: either that or choked on the mcfat.

asciilifeform: wonder what happened to that.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893711 << iirc it was seriously usg.considered to introduce proper, african lion to 'midwest' usa ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893662 << as i currently understand, it will be whatever the pthread overhead is on the given linux ☝︎

asciilifeform: i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893671 specifically aint so. ( tho you ~still~ may want to specialize'em for ~different~ reason, if , say, it makes the proggy moar clear ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: in the pictured example, the only item that ends up loaded is the requested one. ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893667 << this is mistake, and imho subtle and worth addressing , i wrote an illustration for mircea_popescu : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TXKlj/?raw=true ☝︎

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wtf is even flammable in these.

asciilifeform: so won't work here.

asciilifeform: but usg moar 'modern', goin' 'paperless' supposedly.

asciilifeform: in su there were always legends of d00d who keeps cow in city flat and feeds to it 'pravda'

asciilifeform: see, they haven't found how to make a jonathan apple from anthracite just yet. Moar Studies Needed (tm)(r)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: verily. see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891456 ☝︎

asciilifeform: ( coal is moar or less the 1 mineral resource left in north a in any substantial qty )

asciilifeform: it is even rumoured that usg is pouring printolade into fischer-tropsch , a la the ~prev~ reich

asciilifeform: i expect there will be plenty of attempted-'substitute' lulz, a la the wooden spokes in wheels of late imperial jp trucks.

asciilifeform: amerisads forgot long ago how to make even such thing as electric motor.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty sure even ~these~ they buy from siemens.

asciilifeform: it's a bitch to make e.g. small stepper w/out magnet.

asciilifeform: y'know , lifts, submarines, etc

asciilifeform: ( large motors include 0 magnet, i suspect mircea_popescu knew this )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: small ones certainly

asciilifeform: i suppose in 1 sense 'succeeded', iirc principal eater of nd magnet was ye olde mech hdd. tho i dunthink the rise of ssd had any to do with usg idjicy, only w/ korean coolies slaving in 4 shifts

asciilifeform: 'spreading -- works'

asciilifeform: lol substitutes ?!!