log☇︎
15500+ entries in 0.032s
mod6: is the 6502 those cocaine looking packages you got?
mod6: but until we all have shit that doesn't suck... we're kinda just waiting until it doens't suck. in the context of blame and "i don't have to /hope/ this thing works, I know mod6 said it does, ergo, it works."
mod6: well, maybe alf is farther along on this journey than anyone had thought. and maybe "sucks" is only very temporary.
mod6: turing complete?
mod6: is it deterministic?!
mod6: i may want one!
mod6: no fucking way
mod6: no way
mod6: we can't have real true responsibiltiy of code ownership.
mod6: until we have computers, and i mean "have computers" in the sense that alf would be happy to say he has a "comptuer", whatever that means.
mod6: we have no computers, we have almost no sound money, everything is faux.
mod6: we're just at this moment in history where everything sucks.,
mod6: yes
mod6: hhaha
mod6: for sure
mod6: mircea_popescu: formally, a group would have to be constructed to investigate and analyze failures and place blame where beyond required -- if it can be proved beyond any doubt.
mod6: mircea_popescu: well, indeed. i mean, i can "swear and affirm" that my code won't fail you, but really, I can't be certain one way or another. too many variables.
mod6: 99.9995% of time it works. except for when it doesnt.
mod6: it doesn't mean that it's still not probablistic.
mod6: hey hey
mod6: we're all just rolling the dice.
mod6: nothing is certain.
mod6: but "i swear this werks!!", then someone runs your shit and it ~should~ work, but doesn't because of unforseen hardware, or configuration or cosmic rays.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> well, the implicit 'i swear with my life to this' - leaves me reluctant to sign anything i did not write 100% of << and who's to say, even if you wrote everything at one layer, that something doesn't fuck you in the butt from a layer below? we don't have computers. never did.
mod6: yup ok
mod6: jurov: your mempool work was important. reading the vpatches and the ml and the SoBA is important too -- and iirc doesn't take that long to get through most of them at this point
mod6: further, all other vpatches are signed by me and me and you. there are some you haven't signed either.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> this patch has 'all signers: mircea_popescu trinque asciilifeform mod6' << i'll note that this signatures you're referencing are strictly for genesis.vpatch
mod6: trinque: nice!
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> hanbot mod6 maybe an extension to deedbot where people could go !tag <string> and then a collection of clickable tags is published somewhere, each leading to a list of loglines ? << This could work -- it's in the vein of the 'BUTTSECKS' flag. Which seems simple enough. And the given topic-'tag' is a decent idea, i.e. 'OOM' or 'Cramer-Shoup' or 'keccak'
mod6: And beyond that, as you were saying, it didn't get oomkill'd, just kept right along going. i think you're right, we should throw a fatal exception in the event of oom.
mod6: *looked at
mod6: asciilifeform: about that error I saw, thanks for your insight. I looked the other system logs to see if that was the issue, but didn't see the OOMKILL like I have before. So I was thinking it wasn't related to that somehow. Anyway, good to know.
mod6: thoughts on that?
mod6: at minimum that could point a person in the right direction to find #b-a discussions in the log about said topic.
mod6: hanbot: hmm, ok that makes some sense as far as the philosophical components. i wonder if simply an index with pointers to indexed topic wouldn't just be something worthwhile. i.e. "Discussion around MP's change requirements and keccak hash family => [LOG_URL_1] [LOG_URL_N] [...]"
mod6: fwiw, my node doesn't die, just keeps on running in the event of this exception.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ok thanks for checking.
mod6: Does anyone else see these error messages running the latest trb (minus shiva)? Looks to be in main.cpp:ProcessMessage around lines 1855:1913. It doesn't look to me to be related to the malleus patch, but I could be wrong there. Thoughts? Seen the same in your logs? Plz let us know. http://dpaste.com/21PJMY4.txt ☟︎
mod6: interesting thought tho
mod6: anyway, interesting concept.
mod6: not sure yet.
mod6: this seal vector thing is pretty cool.
mod6: ummm
mod6: be a few days or something. will let you know. cheers!
mod6: danielpbarron: thanks for writing that up on your blog. the job is yours if you want it. i'll write up something formal and we can go from there.
mod6: got my treeware SICP and ADA ref manual today.
mod6: anyway, think it over for a bit. i'll get some coins into the foundation in a few days and then will try to write something up that can be signed.
mod6: hanbot: hi, cool. probably would have to go back to at least the beginning of this whole hard/soft fork discussion i'd think.
mod6: ok, cool
mod6: :P
mod6: kakobrekla: if you don't like the weather, just wait a few days.
mod6: Work amongst yourselves to decide who's on duty when so you don't have to worry if out of town or at whorehouse or whatever.
mod6: I'd even be open to the idea of two people splitting up the work there. Say, split 2BTC/yr between 2 individuals so that we get good coverage at all times.
mod6: *nod*
mod6: but it's a hell of a lot more than you get when you just volunteer for some shit.
mod6: well, no one said you were gonna live off of 2 BTC a year, unless you live on the dock and eat fish-heads for dinner every night.
mod6: jurov: yeah, totally could be something that already exists like that sure. the realy problem is finding souls to actually DO the work there.
mod6: *nod* yeah, needs to be editable in a way incase of mis-quote or something.
mod6: shinohai: eh, I'd say more like a really well kept-up wiki, but yea, that's kinda the idea.
mod6: heheheh
mod6: that exactly.
mod6: right.
mod6: The key to this job is to save the really succint details of technical discussions surrouding future development. Needs just the right amount of information, too much will be cumbersome.
mod6: I'd even say TomServo or thestringpuller would be good candidates as well. Any wot regs.
mod6: shinohai perhaps
mod6: asciilifeform (who is one arm shy of this job)
mod6: jurov (who's got too much other shit to do)
mod6: hanbot
mod6: bingo.
mod6: ben_vulpes: any thoughts on this? If I dump 10 BTC to the foundation, will you approve 2BTC/yr for a stenographer?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> so do it on the foudnation and donate the needed funds to it. << i guess i could just do that.
mod6: the foundation makes money by not spending any.
mod6: naw, this is a mod6 request.
mod6: hell, i'd do it myself, but there's no way i can keep up with that too.
mod6: dare i say, that I would lay out 10 BTC, 2 BTC per year for someone to handle this task.
mod6: hah, yes.
mod6: then we search for that flag, and we see exactly where we should for whatever important topic.
mod6: unless we use a flag, like BUTTSECKS.
mod6: yeah, but i can't ever find shit. and these details are too important to be lost.
mod6: we need like a tmsr stenographer.
mod6: all of this good information needs to go somewhere other than the logs. ☟︎☟︎
mod6: -s
mod6: well, i guess one could just add in the shifting and then make it a toggleable things.
mod6: it's too bad we're so time constrained on this, it'd be nice to see a poc of both : with shifting and without.
mod6: ah right.
mod6: ok and this goes back to the discussion this am right? re: sha(header+nonce) AND sha(digest+nonce) ? or did i read that wrong?
mod6: ya.
mod6: i like what i've read, more analysis and discussion of implementation decisions are required for sure. i think we'll get there as this thread continues over the next 45 days.
mod6: jurov: ah, very much so.
mod6: hehe, ofc.
mod6: However, my main objective is still to finish up the v054 release before diving into any of that quite yet. It's my fault, I havent done jack-shit all month basically. I've been meaning to work with trinque and get these makefiles battle-ready, but have had a number of meatspace things get in the way.
mod6: mircea_popescu asciilifeform ben_vulpes trinque phf, et. al., I've been mulling it over while i've been following the logs for some days now about what seems like a good fork to have in our possession: at this point, im inclined to think implementation of Mr. P.'s outlined ideas are the best choice, currently.
mod6: s/you/your/
mod6: anyway, I see you patch, thanks for posting. when I get around to making another version of V, i'll throw that in there.
mod6: also: /bin/sh: 1: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string << i think you can resolve this locally by installing gawk
mod6: <+trinque> mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for v.pl? would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself? << hey, uumm... so yeah, i think it does tell you which one barfed on press. did you use (v | verbose) in there? or have a dpaste of what it did?
mod6: o/
mod6: <+ascii_field> from under every rock. << yes, im sure.
mod6: thanks for testing that out