log☇︎
13200+ entries in 0.096s
asciilifeform: !A @aa@[a]; LC @bb@[b]@aa!; RC @bb!
asciilifeform: !A @aa@[a].7:.1-",_; @bb@[b].5:!.1-",_; .3:[c]!.1-",_
asciilifeform: !A @aa@[a].7:!.1-",_; @bb@[b].5:!.1-",_; .3:[c]!.1-",_
asciilifeform: !A @foo@.3R*; .3!!!#
asciilifeform: !A @foo@[foo]([;]); ! QY
asciilifeform: !A @foo@;; ! QY
pehbot: asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 2 IP: 2 Symbol: ';' : Currently in a Loop state; but this Op exits a Subroutine !
asciilifeform: !A :; QY
pehbot: asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 24 IP: 13 Symbol: ',' : Currently in a Subroutine; but this Op exits a Loop state !
asciilifeform: !A @foo@[foo].1,; ! QY
asciilifeform: !A @foo@[foo].0{;}; QY
Mocky: I think I get it but havn't used yet, other than a trb build from online that didn't require much thinking.
asciilifeform: Mocky: the likbez by ben_vulpes is still imho the gold standard
asciilifeform currently suspects that '1 sane comp for all problem domains' is a misapprehension of the problem, and that '1 for crypto, 1 for other things' is merely the beginning of it.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-26 21:18 diana_coman: if it's about wants, I can throw in that I want a sane computer already!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904962 << not to let this escape; i'd actually be quite interested to read diana_coman's own thoughts re what is a sane comp. ( asciilifeform wrote at great length re the subj, would also like to see where folx disagree / expand ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: but prolly cannot escape to have a glue for it, while we sit on irc , load www for various uses, etc
asciilifeform: asciilifeform sees tcp as a legacy tech, really
mircea_popescu: might tbe a better route, esp if it delivers a cheap way to a tcp-based republican web, to replace the www.
asciilifeform: i'll add that even a tcp skin wouldn't be entirely useless ( right nao the only way to write a wwwistic proggy in ada is to use adacorpse's 'gnatsockets' crock of shit ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: shortest path to wrapper would be a http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2557 -style skin for unixsocketism.
mircea_popescu: no argument there ; also so far, let's just first get a wrapper.
mircea_popescu: yes man, but trad dbs do a lot of things, including http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-15#1872293 ; i can appreciate the "fuck this mn lines of c" argument, but this isn't the time to feather-macaroni just yet. ☝︎
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's mmap thing (ideally a working ver of the latest iteration, but even the original 'horsecocks') already gives ability to write simple , fast db, for uncomplicated schemas
diana_coman: if it's about wants, I can throw in that I want a sane computer already! ☟︎
asciilifeform: ideally what you'd want imho is a sane db solidly in ada, rather than coupla mil+ loc of c ??? . but this may be bridge too far just yet.
mircea_popescu: in another order : an ada prototype for db interaction, at the very least with mysql and postgres, would probably get imported into a lot of projects. anyone has one unpublished ? anyone wanna write ?
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 14:29 mircea_popescu: this is a matter of best practices that's by its nature a republican standard candidate, so i'd very much like to hear the esteemed lordship.
a111: Logged on 2014-08-20 01:01 asciilifeform: '…like a refugee from very rural Pakistan who gets relocated to Oslo, Norway, and still thinks that he could make better food if he were only allowed to light a fire in his living room instead of using that complex electric stove. (This is a real news item. Every now and then, landlords discover indoor fireplaces and occasionally the “newbies” to civilization burn down the building.)' (herr naggum)
mircea_popescu: a most useful abstraction / model, in any cas.e
mircea_popescu: yet -- if it works as a bootstrapper it works as a bootstrapper ; and if it does not we understand why and wherefore.
asciilifeform: imo peh is considerably closer to a tabletop model for sane iron cpu, than to bootstrapper for x86 etc
asciilifeform: i would not presently go as far as to say 'peh is ~the~ bootstrapper' ( current peh cannot even output a raw byte... ) but suspect that the solution will have approximately its shape.
mircea_popescu: in any case, a very tentative possible repoublican alternate machine can be already intuited : if p backend is welded to gcc;s frontends, one can code in ada (or c#, why not), compiler for p-machine and live happily ever after.
mircea_popescu: if peh can be its own bootstrapper quite so transparently nobody notices, then maybe it is actually a good general purpose bootstrapping tool. maybe.
asciilifeform: ( peh per se is a 'peh compiler', arguably, in that it can and does produce peh tapes as output, this is how e.g. keygen worx )
asciilifeform: ( in fact ada per se has a fascism knob that, if set, prevents early return from subroutines . i have not thus far used, cuz in ffa per se this is already the case, nuffin gets to terminate early when 'constant time' algo )
asciilifeform: all of this, is to 1) make easier to 'fit in head' the flow of a pehtape by eyeballing 2) reduce cachemiss sidechannel chatter
mircea_popescu: this observation is a major driver of the foregoing.
asciilifeform: 'random access' is a very expensive illusion .
asciilifeform: ( recall incidentally the fate of 'bubble memory.' mega-invention, btw. d00d discovered that you dun need a tape deck to use tape, in a certain config of magnetic field, you can make the bits on tape ~walk~ in circles. and r/w'em as they move past a particular spot. )
mircea_popescu: but we are very specifically not discussing what to do to read trilema. we're discussing what to do at a relatively early stage of bootstrap!
asciilifeform: all of this being said, i suspect mircea_popescu would still barf if to e.g. fetch a trilema pg, 5km of tape had to move a full circle.
mircea_popescu: because no, this is a cop-out, "oh, it's arbitrary". like the poorly trained cook, "arbitrary use of tools"
asciilifeform: you can do a surprising amt with N tape decks that ordinarily 'demands randomaccess'
mircea_popescu: obviously (i would hope) i'm not proposing any naive solution will necessarily work well ; i'm just saying that it's not obvious to me a smart solution isn't available somewhere. in point of fact not merely p, but ~the whole class of things for which it stands as a most illustrative example~ is, if arguably not new, in any case the continuation of work in fields and along lines neglected for at least three if not more than
mircea_popescu: the dood's historical blackjack playing program is a better model of "bootstrapper" than what you find in average "systems design" in orclang books.
mircea_popescu will import by reference the story of mel. what "random access", it's onlty random if you don't know what you're doing and at bootstrap phase the item's too close to starting position to have complexity-exploded out of your hands already as a matter of necessity.
asciilifeform: or a 2pass compiler. or anyffin that gotta walk a substantial length of bits >1ce
mircea_popescu: no. because see, THAT is a false constraint.
asciilifeform: somewhat heavy ram-wise for a general-purpose script lang tho
mircea_popescu: and it ~might~ even be a candidate bootstrap language.
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, e.g. ch18 peh actually worx as 'a php' (i.e. can do string substitutions and elementary arithmetics... )
mircea_popescu: but look how it mirrors what we want from a putative tmsr.php or tmsr.xml or tmsr.tcl or w.e!
a111: Logged on 2019-03-26 19:58 mircea_popescu: bvt, http://archive.is/febOU#selection-255.67-255.135 challenge specifically offers you excellent entry point : there's a bunch of contact details available, what's "me" resolve to as a provision endpoint.
mircea_popescu: i suspect though the earlier discussion of "what do we want for a scripting language" is deeply if unobviously related to "what is bootstrap done by"
asciilifeform: bvt: the other thing, is the 3-ring circus aspect of elaborately dethompsonizing a box in order to... bring up 1M+line of linusolade ☟︎
asciilifeform: bvt: imo c is intrinsically broken ~conceptually~ as a bootstrapping lang ( entirely aside from how it is broken as a ~platform~ lang, re which subj asciilifeform has entire www... ) -- in that it intrinsically demands a massive pile of nickel and dime utils ( bash, 'make', etc ) to work as usable platform
bvt: i also don't like how at the 'mes' stage a linux kernel 'magically' appears as the underlying substrape, while stage0 parts are designed to work without os
asciilifeform: pretty sad, imho : esthlos wrote a++ log summaries, a working vtron, possibly other items i cant recall
mircea_popescu: bvt, http://archive.is/febOU#selection-255.67-255.135 challenge specifically offers you excellent entry point : there's a bunch of contact details available, what's "me" resolve to as a provision endpoint. ☟︎☟︎
bvt: OriansJ in #bootstrappable has a notion of hygiene (at least basic, ie groks fits-in-head), and still works on the stage0; i had no interaction with janneke (mes author) yet, so can't make claims about him. he does make some noise in the #bootstrappable and #guix
asciilifeform: bvt: seems like mircea_popescu's original eyeball verdict was 100% on target? i.e. 'mes' is a pile o'shit masquerading as they usually do for a solution
bvt: hello. i did not manage to finish work on mes report part 2 last week, and i don't have a possibility to do any work this week. i plan to finish it around weekend next week.
asciilifeform: incidentally '50s usa had own version of term for 'aspirational product'. popular decoding of auto brand 'pontiac', famously, was 'poor old nigger thinks it's a cadillac'
mircea_popescu: a ok then.
mircea_popescu: poor but stupid yankee kids, hearing of something in that vein, imagined the ~same can be obtained not only very cheaply, but importantly using only items accessible -- the only enduring ideology of that place. and so... the yankee is moronic enough to act as if a feather suffices to be 2nd line english elite.)
mircea_popescu: (likbez : as grand tours became popularized, in the interim before cook's mass commercialization thereof, a lot of 2nd hand british elite kids were exposed to italian fashion and atmosphere ; gained an appreciation of aforeunknown pasta, ie maccaroni, and started a whole epicene fashion including ridiculous dress and assorted faggotry.
asciilifeform: a la 'bob the bridge-builder'
mircea_popescu: in the words of their national anthem, "he puts a feather in his cap and calls it macaroni"
mircea_popescu: the latter's a little more fopish and sophisticated, but then again the former's born in whichever unknown swamp amidst our colonies.
mircea_popescu: so i dunno that there's a substantial difference, ideologically, between kennan and churchill.
asciilifeform: i can't picture how to argue that c ~wasn't~ a socialist
mircea_popescu: i don;t have a very clear view of patton ; but churchill is exactly as much a socialist as the whole temperance movement. he was unequivocally identified as such by ~all contemporaries, what, just because dumb soviet kid never heard of churchill other than for one newspaper notice dated 1945 this means something ? by the time hitler came to power churchill had been an openly socialist politician for a decade+
BingoBoingo: I got the plata back. Picking up different beefier machine tomorrow from a vendor in centro.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-26 09:18 mircea_popescu: "The present generation of Russians have never known spontaneity of collective action. If, consequently, anything were ever to occur to disrupt the unity and efficacy of the Party as a political instrument, Soviet Russia might be changed overnight from one of the strongest to one of the weakest and most pitiable of national societies."
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
a111: Logged on 2019-03-26 08:58 mircea_popescu: nt: namely, the fact that the leadership is at liberty to put forward for tactical purposes any particular thesis which it finds useful to the cause at any particular moment and to require the faithful and unquestioning acceptance of that thesis by the members of the movement as a whole. This means that truth is not a constant but is actually created, for all intents and purposes, by the Soviet leaders themselves. It may v
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904773 << seems to me that kennan had a problem with http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704268 ☝︎☝︎
BingoBoingo: In discoveries, Spain has a pantsuitist party named "Podemos"
mircea_popescu: "The present generation of Russians have never known spontaneity of collective action. If, consequently, anything were ever to occur to disrupt the unity and efficacy of the Party as a political instrument, Soviet Russia might be changed overnight from one of the strongest to one of the weakest and most pitiable of national societies." ☟︎
mircea_popescu: ont-fucking-yield/][an unshakable stubbornness and steadfastness] in its orientation. This orientation can be changed at will by the Kremlin but by no other power. Once a given party line has been laid down on a given issue of current policy, the whole Soviet governmental machine, including the mechanism of diplomacy, moves inexorably along the prescribed path, like a persistent toy automobile wound up and headed in a give
mircea_popescu: nt: namely, the fact that the leadership is at liberty to put forward for tactical purposes any particular thesis which it finds useful to the cause at any particular moment and to require the faithful and unquestioning acceptance of that thesis by the members of the movement as a whole. This means that truth is not a constant but is actually created, for all intents and purposes, by the Soviet leaders themselves. It may v ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "On the principle of infallibility there rests the iron discipline of the Communist Party. In fact, the two concepts are mutually self-supporting. Perfect discipline requires recognition of infallibility. Infallibility requires the observance of discipline. And the two go far to determine the behaviorism of the entire Soviet apparatus of power. But their effect cannot be understood unless a third factor be taken into accou
asciilifeform: ( in early 1900s, there was a fiction that fed gov 'only has power to tax', and so ban was dresses as a 'tax' )
BingoBoingo: This is for the ammo to be in illinois, maker has to serialize bullets plus + 0.005 USD tax per bullet so Illinois can bungle a tracking system
BingoBoingo: ^ 500 counts of Class A Misdemeanor could be yours for the low price of 19.59 USD and presence in Illinois after January 1st, 2020
asciilifeform: !A @foo@[foo]; @bar@[bar]!!; @baz@[baz]!!; !
asciilifeform: !A @foo@[foo]; @bar@[bar]!; @baz@[baz]!!; !
asciilifeform: !A @foo@[foo]; @bar@[bar]!; @baz@[baz]!; !
asciilifeform: !A @foo@[foo]; !!!
hanbot: meanwhile billymg phf mircea_popescu et al my patch from last night needed a reground, sorry for the pain in the ass. http://thewhet.net/2019/03/mp-wp-patch-for-enabling-html-comments/
mircea_popescu: how do you say "burghezo-mosieresc" in ru ? term as in "Despre politica externă antinațională a guvernelor burghezo-moșierești din România, în timpul politicii imperialiste de așa-zisă 'neintervenție' "
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'preoccupation with crimes' also comes in diff. variants. consider e.g. lafonde, vs the typical ameri-suburbanite who has never so much as personally seen a homo-lafondicus with naked eye but nevertheless fixated , etc
mircea_popescu: in a sense, the children have taken over the insane asylum -- to anyone outside they make just as good mental patients as the older ones ; but inside they move quicker and are more vivacious, which are natural advantages.
mircea_popescu: because, specifically, reds have a lot more trouble dealing with alterity than blues. the blue has little trouble with alterity because they're mostly mentally retarded, no strong notions of self.
mircea_popescu: hanbot, it's not even coincidental that the pantsuit used "ts" as in trans-sexualism to liberate themselves from the traditional ("reds") socialist mindset and erupt like puss from a scab.
asciilifeform: aha. would require a sub-line difftron tho, as i understand.
mircea_popescu: socialist accounting of costs is a thing of wonder. obviously no such thing as 0-cost exists in nature, but they're ideal sorta folk.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-30 00:40 mircea_popescu: in a sense, the "fascists" are more progressive than the "progressive"