dexX7: bitcointa.lk appears to be actually quite useful. while btctalk is returning 502, bitcointa.lk is still available
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21346 @ 0.00093304 = 19.9167 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: if only you could mirror thermos' wallet.
benkay: ;;later tell bitcoinpete subject of creative marketing and cars, did you ever see the frisky dingo scion episode?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00094024 = 7.945 BTC [+]
BCB: dexX7: bitcointa.lk is pretty fast too.
joecool: !isitdown bitcointroll.org
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6186 @ 0.00094024 = 5.8163 BTC [+]
benkay: ;;isitdown bitcointalk.org
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05899 = 0.5309 BTC [-]
radan: are there btc index funds?
benkay: not really, radan. what would they be indexing?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 39 @ 0.0055584 = 0.2168 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.059 = 0.59 BTC [+]
radan: I'm an engineer, not a banker
nubbins`: what sort of train do you run?
benkay: nubbins`: many thanks for design consult
benkay: ;;rate nubbins 1 designs and prints
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
benkay: ;;rate nubbins` 1 arts and prints
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user nubbins` has been recorded.
benkay: wow "excellent javascript skills"
nubbins`: i actually added nubbins without a ` to my highlight list because i was missing so many pings
nubbins`: and convinced nanotube to urlencode nicks so my rating page would display as nubbins%60 and not break clients
nubbins`: i tell ya, the things i do for this ` ;(
benkay: nanotube's generally amenable to not horrible ideas.
nubbins`: javascript, language of tomorrow
nubbins`: you might want to adjust the way footnotes are presented too
nubbins`: i.e. put the <sup> of the footnote number inside the <p> of the footnote text, so it doesn't put a huge break in there
benkay: javascript: it's totally lisp
benkay: ha yeah excellent idea, nubbins`, ty. fixing that's been on my agenda for a minute now
benkay: is there a non-horrible web analytics operation?
nubbins`: google analytics is at least easy to implement, but people have strong opinions on it
nubbins`: lel yeah even without getting to the second word in the product name
benkay: having used it, it also sucks.
nubbins`: we used this one analytics package at my last job from -- i think -- adobe
benkay: shit operator, shit product.
benkay: any experience with piwik?
nubbins`: it took weeks to figure out what the fucking stats and graphs represented
nubbins`: i avoided working with analytics stuff whenever possible
nubbins`: innocently add analytics to a website, next thing you're spending your weeks tweaking goal funnels
benkay: let me tell you something, dear client, you must actually sell your product.
benkay: right up there with "sometimes the best mobile strategy is no mobile strategy"
nubbins`: just went downstairs to reclaim and recoat some screens -- found two fresh ones already coated and ready to burn
nubbins`: we've got a rush job lined up for tomorrow and we won't get the final content for the posters until like 4am ;0
benkay: where can I see hashrate stats etc for atc?
gribble: ReutersEmily was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 58 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <ReutersEmily> same album as Mistadobalina also features a wonderful song called "What Is A Booty"
cazalla: i wonder if she will return
KRS-One: I love that song Mistadoblina lol its good
KRS-One: i think the singer is ice cube's cousin or something
benkay: lame that's the same one!
KRS-One: someone needs to delete these black and whites..damn
cazalla: well, she didn't take the time to register her nick
BCB: ozbot, are they PM's girls
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00093627 = 17.7891 BTC [-]
diametric: oh was showing my wife the command when she glanced over
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00093641 = 2.9965 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 45 @ 0.00324 = 0.1458 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 55 @ 0.0032295 = 0.1776 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10296 @ 0.00093627 = 9.6398 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00334999 = 0.1474 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 153 @ 0.00319985 = 0.4896 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07467777 = 0.3734 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22778 @ 0.00093579 = 21.3154 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07467777 = 0.1494 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10501 @ 0.00093472 = 9.8155 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.07475801 = 0.6728 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 155 @ 0.00315301 = 0.4887 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 803 @ 0.00315301 = 2.5319 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 27 @ 0.074989 = 2.0247 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.075 = 0.675 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.075 = 0.75 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50300 @ 0.00094066 = 47.3152 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00093976 = 14.1434 BTC [-]
Namworld: So anyway, yes, it seems the US-Russia clusterfuckshowfest is returning.
Namworld: There is a touch of Cold in the air.
dignork: Namworld, try reading the same text twice, it's FUD. Punchline is Jay Carney's phrase from two days ago
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49700 @ 0.00094091 = 46.7632 BTC [+]
Namworld: Oh, that text doesn't matter. If it's FUD it doesn't matter either.
Namworld: I'm just referring to US-Russia bitching each other once again, which is actually happening.
Namworld: How serious it gets, not going to speculate on that.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05899999 = 0.118 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06200001 = 0.124 BTC [+]
KRS-One: Word is that if serious sanctions are imposed the Russian economy could crash. Jeez we need to work toward global economic growth and this isnt going to help. Hope at least it will save lives.
chetty: Its a global economy, all these guys are tied together, one economy doesn't go down alone
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 303 @ 0.00313706 = 0.9505 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 886 @ 0.00083169 = 0.7369 BTC [-] {10}
KRS-One: yeah that was more or less my point
dignork: KRS-One when did it happen that economic sanctions saved people lives?
dignork: US is dropping sanctions in hope that people will revolt, and overthrow Putin, surely it will save lives
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 39 @ 0.00315301 = 0.123 BTC [+]
KRS-One: dignork: not debating that..more or less a contrast to using military force..dont look too much into what i'm saying.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00094103 = 21.4555 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00094127 = 6.4006 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00625 = 0.1563 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6621 @ 0.00094127 = 6.2321 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00315046 = 3.1505 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20750 @ 0.00094177 = 19.5417 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00093932 = 15.4988 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 56 @ 0.0062889 = 0.3522 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19295 @ 0.00094231 = 18.1819 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00082303 / 0.00090392 / 0.00096 (1146822 shares, 1,036.64 BTC), 7D: 0.00079506 / 0.00084304 / 0.00096 (6294202 shares, 5,306.29 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00085078 / 0.00096 (29652343 shares, 25,227.87 BTC)
dub: !ticker havelock am1
assbot: [HAVELOCK:AM1] 1D: 0.59000000 / 0.59855272 / 0.62000000 (89 shares, 53.27119209 BTC), 7D: 0.59000000 / 0.61090914 / 0.63900000 (486 shares, 296.90184044 BTC), 30D: 0.45000000 / 0.57221105 / 0.68000000 (3538 shares, 2024.48269555 BTC)
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 523 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.0779% in 3d 3h 45m 8s
Neil: Hmm, higher than that I think. The 16% is looking a little close.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00094278 = 11.4548 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.59380001 = 1.7814 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25550 @ 0.00094324 = 24.0998 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: mircea_popescu: is there an archive of logs prior to 26-04-2013?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.0009417 = 13.9372 BTC [-]
cryptoflood: Hey guys, Never really have chat here before just lurked, but I've been learning the ropes for a while now. Lost my last identity due to learning ignorance. Trying to build my WOT rating back up.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.0009437 = 21.8467 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.0009393 = 7.4205 BTC [-]
chetty: hello cryptoflood this tends to be a quiet time of day here
chetty: cryptoflood, maybe spend some time reading the logs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23966 @ 0.00094567 = 22.6639 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.62111065 = 3.1056 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.6213 = 1.8639 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62149004 = 1.243 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.62164446 = 8.0814 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.075 = 0.15 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62158008 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62169999 BTC [+]
jurov: cazalla, kako said he has them but they need cleaning up
jurov: (i do have some such too)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 74 @ 0.07206758 = 5.333 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12050 @ 0.00094098 = 11.3388 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 479 @ 0.00313008 = 1.4993 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.07200269 = 1.152 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00094098 = 11.1977 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00094135 = 18.6858 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00094491 = 16.158 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: jurov: are they online anywhere?
cazalla: nice timing mircea_popescu, do you have logs prior to 26-04-2013?
cazalla: available online for public consumption?
mircea_popescu: you'll have to bug kako, and probably volunteer a lot of work
mircea_popescu: i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy
cazalla: perhaps volunteer work is an opportunity to earn some wot
dnivi3: Anyone bought Cryptorush shares?
dnivi3: Seems like I jumped on the train a bit too early thinking that the price would rise (which it did for a little while). I am dumping my shares, can't justify the investment with regards to their shitty dividen.
mircea_popescu: dividends aren't really the chief consideration in investments.
dnivi3: Sure, but their business does not seem to thrive anyways so I'd rather pull out. What do you consider the chief consideration?
VanCleef: i wish there was something decent to invest in
mircea_popescu: Untermyer: Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?
mircea_popescu: Morgan: Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it
a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom.
dnivi3: @micea_popescu: OK, what is that supposed to tell me? @VanCleef: there are some decent funds on Havelock, for example Peta Mine.
VanCleef: isn't petamine just a PMB tho?
dnivi3: PMB? Not sure what that means, to be honest. Care to explain?
ozbot: The problem with PMBs, ie “Perpetual Mining Bonds” pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
VanCleef: so like each share locks you into a hashrate not a percentage of the companies total hashing power
dnivi3: Ah, that's true. Hmm, interesting.
VanCleef: thus being worth less as the network difficulty goes up?
dnivi3: Yes, indeed. However, it is not the case though if the mining operation is intending to reinvest (something which PETA intends to do).
dnivi3: They have a reinvestment plan for the future, to increase their hashrate. 35% of all profit goes to reinvestment for hash power.
ozbot: SEC-Bitcoin, Shadow Banking, Levitt on N.Y. Probe: Compliance - Businessweek
B007: made it into my inbox via google alerts on bitcoin
mircea_popescu: i have a bottle of coca cola. 35% of what i drink goes into buying more coca cola
mircea_popescu: what is this, logic 101 for people that haven't mastered the arrow in flight "paradox" ?
B007: anyway time for bed
dnivi3: I am not quite sure how the arrow in flight paradox relates to this.
mircea_popescu: the fact that they reinvest some portion of the dividends is completely irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: if they paid out that 35% you could reinvest it yourself.
mircea_popescu: and it'd even be better, because you wouldn't be locked into whatever braindamage they come up with
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, you're just getting 100% dividend, except a 35% portion of it is actually worth less
dnivi3: Interesting. Thanks for the insight. I gotta go!
ozbot: So here’s a problem for you… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
chetty: A workbook handed out to seventh grade students in Springfield, Ill., states that all Americans must register their firearms in order to have a Second Amendment right.
VanCleef: In an echo of the Cold War, MasterCard and Visa have stopped processing payments by some Russian banks after the United States issued sanctions over Russia's recent annexation of Crimea.
VanCleef: Putin the next C.E.O of bitcoin
HeySteve: Putin tried to get a regional processing centre for credit cards several years back
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.0061 = 0.1159 BTC [-] {2}
samson_: WTF has Crimea got to do with the US ?
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
VanCleef: more i think aboutit my god that whatssapp deal was such a bad buy
VanCleef: i would rather buy wechat for alot cheaper
FabianB: i don't think tencent would ever sell
wao-ender: let's use telegram instead of whatsapp
VanCleef: heh iunintalled whatsapp already
chetty: no wonder people are so clueless about finance
MisterE: So I guess if you'e in a fund that invests in a Russian company you could get screwed f that the Russian holdings are sanctioned...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34558 @ 0.00094047 = 32.5008 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 9324 @ 0.00310323 = 28.9345 BTC [-] {24}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8272 @ 0.00093849 = 7.7632 BTC [-]
Mats_cd03: Zerohedge is poorly disguised dog shiy
kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy < like a year of bullshit isnt enough
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1230 @ 0.0031 = 3.813 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.0031 = 0.775 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 520 @ 0.0031 = 1.612 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00094091 = 17.548 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00094224 = 8.9513 BTC [+]
ozbot: Let's talk about BTC.SX and MT.GOX
Namworld: My antivirus considers Google's DoubleClick cookie as an infected files and keeps deleting it.It classify snooping cookies as viruses.
Namworld: It seems an apt classification.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093849 = 0.9385 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093913 = 0.9391 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: but i would need to register a sock, thats the issue
ozbot: We have decided to donate 100btc to those who lost funds from mt gox
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07100125 = 0.426 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: maybe make a sock that isnt a sock, like call yourself Bitcoin Assets
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61999997 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.61999998 = 3.72 BTC [+]
jborkl: That is very generous of them
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00093913 = 14.8383 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 469 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.4934% in 2d 19h 13m 57s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093984 = 0.9398 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92517 @ 0.000938 = 86.7809 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00093452 = 2.3363 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27433 @ 0.00093586 = 25.6734 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00094245 = 28.6034 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: In response to the argument that Title III provides no explicit provision for disclosures under the present facts, the court noted that "[Title III] does not prohibit all that it does not permit".
artifexd: And if there was no bias in the coin, a straight forward flip would be good enough.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00094232 = 7.2559 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6191 BTC [-]
artifexd: I recoded my test for that change and the results are an even distribution regardless of flip bias. Cool.
artifexd: Unless the bias is 100%, in which case there is no entropy to tap so you can't get any entropy out.
mircea_popescu: in computational terms, the algo doesn't crash, it just never finishes.
artifexd: True. But a generator that never generates can hardly be called a generator.
mircea_popescu: depends if you're discussing it as an engineer or as a computer scientist.
mircea_popescu: neumann was the later, and in that context yes it can.
chetty: they got this wrong, the bitcoin should be the bite
artifexd: Change line 9 to vary the bias to your hearts content.
artifexd: That may explain why google failed me
mircea_popescu: whoa you don't know the greatest mathematician that ever lived ?
artifexd: I did discover him in my googling. I didn't expect you to misspell his name though so I though you were talking about someone else
artifexd: "Ok, so did you come up with Newman’s method or not ?"
nubbins`: so pascale's art school was "donated" a bunch of inks from a local screenprint shop
nubbins`: which they in turn donated to us
nubbins`: about a third of them were usable, the rest (10-15 gallons) aren't fit for use
nubbins`: brought em out to the dump today, and they wouldn't take them because it's commercial waste
nubbins`: so now we have 15 gallons of "donated" ink that's gonna cost us $2-300 to dispose of
nubbins`: really old, starting to separate
mircea_popescu: you can probably reemusify them if you have an old washing machine
nubbins`: they're plastisol inks, PVC particles in emulsion
nubbins`: either way, old inks break down
nubbins`: you can take a quart of old ink and mix it with a power drill for an hour and it's still shit
nubbins`: that's what we get for taking donations without inspecting em first
mircea_popescu: you put it in the tumbler, stuff the tumbler with rags or packing peanuts or w/e to keep the cans flush to the side, then hook it to dry for a while.
nubbins`: impressed me with your knowledge of random things
nubbins`: unfortunately i can't even sneak em into the trash
nubbins`: well. not with a clear conscience
mircea_popescu: you can just pour them into the toilet, one ounce a day
nubbins`: well, i've gotta get to printing
nubbins`: try to turn this shit day around
nubbins`: fun fact, we dumped raw sewage into the atlantic until 2 years ago
ozbot: Science & Environmental Health Network - Ecological Medicine: Essays
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15246 @ 0.00094232 = 14.3666 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00305112 = 0.1098 BTC [-] {3}
ozbot: Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. All say aye.., say AYE, "AYE!"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.003075 = 0.1015 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.0710566 = 1.0658 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07100124 = 1.42 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28304 @ 0.00094257 = 26.6785 BTC [+] {2}
artifexd: relevant quote "the Bitcoin network is performing enough computation to generate SHA-1 collisions every 131 minutes!"
only: 45m+ 1 pound coin fakes in circulation
mircea_popescu: that's almost enough to start a fake bitcoin mining farm
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.42564200 BTC to 4`100 shares, 59162 satoshi per share
ThickAsThieves: Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. So let's discuss!
mircea_popescu: guy's worried that all his shady work promoting various scams may land him in hot water.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] [PAID] 2.17250000 BTC to 86`900 shares, 2500 satoshi per share
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 118000 @ 0.0109775 = 1295.345 BTC [-]
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN Bids: []
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['127000 @ 0.0109775']
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 5000 @ 0.0109775 = 54.8875 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 100132 @ 0.0109775 = 1099.199 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 454 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.2920% in 2d 17h 27m 5s
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 26868 @ 0.0109775 = 294.9435 BTC [-] {2}
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN 1 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 7 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 30 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 25393 @ 0.0109775 = 278.7517 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.00326812 = 0.4902 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: ten-twenty years ago there was nothing really major that depended on them so.
mircea_popescu: most experts are over 50 and don't hang out in the right places, so
mircea_popescu: one can prolly make a living for years just out of that observation.
artifexd: For some people, talking is not fun. Or maybe it is, but writing code is orders of magnitude more fun than writing english.
mircea_popescu: possibly because they never bothered to learn english properly.
artifexd: It isn't about the medium. It's about the audience.
mircea_popescu: i never heard of a programmer that judged the languages on the basis of the machines involved.
kakobrekla: alert('whats wrong with the audience here?');
mircea_popescu: "javascript is really cool, it works on every shitty laptop out there"
mircea_popescu: as opposed to "lisp is crap, they only run it on shit"
artifexd: The audience of english is other humans, generally. The audience of code is the machine.
mircea_popescu: that's trhe very point of having a language : abstracting the audience.
mircea_popescu: otherwise you'd just carry a soldering iron everywhere.
mircea_popescu: because.... wait for it... c++ IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH :D
Ghaleon: as programmers we must rise up now and be better bridges between humans and machines, money is the lifeblood of human energy, thus we must improve as ambassardors
artifexd: Success in communicating via code is much easier to measure than in english. "Did it compile?" vs "Did he/she understand me?"
mircea_popescu: artifexd if you're limiting yourself to successes you can measure you're more likely to become obese than get laid.
Ghaleon: hence the typical irc, leet jerk attitude is bout to be extinct
☟︎ assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.07148303 = 2.1445 BTC [+] {8}
kakobrekla: but 'did it compile' check is equal to 'did i make any typos' not 'is the code fucking shit'
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla stop fuding and slandering bitcointalk CEOs.
artifexd: Standard of success? No. Measurement? Sure. "Yes compile" is further along than "No compile"
mircea_popescu: Ghaleon as you approach mastery you'll notice the leet asshole is an epic bridge builder type.
Ghaleon: mp, yes, the challenge is finding that person who can build the epic bridges and present the right face... without going insane for long enough
Ghaleon: this community is doing an awesomejob
Ghaleon: your letter to sec was an example of that
Ghaleon: respectable, legally sound, defiant.. yet friendly
mircea_popescu: but im the elitist asshole to end all elitist assholes.
Ghaleon: people can look up to that
mircea_popescu: and by that penis i have represented a proper equality.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 48 @ 0.62805964 = 30.1469 BTC [+] {11}
Ghaleon: we had a great article about bit coin archetypes before
Ghaleon: bit coins greatest value is that it is getting people to ask "what is money really" ?
Ghaleon: henry Ford's vision is coming to pass
Ghaleon: as things move forward we will be able to ask "how do people use money really?"
Ghaleon: and get an answer thanks to the blockchain
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.63 = 10.08 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.00598292 = 0.3829 BTC [-] {5}
Ghaleon: i have a feeling that carl jung's archetypal mode.. a consdesnded version will give the right person a keen edge going forward
mircea_popescu: "Gilliams received $4 million from Morfopoulous and $1 million from another investor for investment in the STRIPS program. As evidence that the funds were so invested, Gilliams created a screenshot from Bloomberg Finance showing $1 million worth of U.S. Treasury STRIPS, which Gilliams represented was proof that he had purchased Treasury STRIPS. A screenshot? He must have been in the virtual office that day. A
mircea_popescu: screen shot is not a confirmation. And nobody investing foundation funds should think it is."
mircea_popescu: " He also generated a document, which he supplied to a representative of the investors, in which he purported to show a series of $5 million trades, as well as over $100,000 in purported profits on trades during September and October 2010, [but] this document was false. Anyone can generate a professional looking document on their computer."
mircea_popescu: Gilliams lives an extravagant lifestyle, much of which is depicted in videos filmed by videographers he hired to follow him around. The videos appear on TLG TV, which purports to be some sort of reality TV show starring him. A host of such videos still remain on YouTube, although some were deleted from Vimeo. One such video apparently depicted Gillaims posing with stacks of money on his lap.
mircea_popescu: (for the rap fans among us : this is some friend of p. diddy's)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00594301 = 0.1189 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.63011 = 1.2602 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07589959 = 0.3036 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07589959 = 0.4554 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07589958 = 0.2277 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00094254 = 2.8276 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00307001 = 0.1535 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 178 @ 0.00555884 = 0.9895 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: How Deep Learning Analytics Mimic the Mind
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.0726 = 2.178 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: Arden Elizabeth @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Improvement, Part I: Grit Is More Important Than Talent (link)
mircea_popescu: Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu RT @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Satisfaction, Part I: Girth Is More Important Than ta Length (link)
benkay: re chetty's zerohedge sanction link "Carney...said. 'I wouldn't, if I were you, invest in Russian equities right now, unless you're going short.'". << is this the great mechanisms of war ratcheting one step further? is the US seriously biting off an economic war with Russia?
chetty: benkay, it sure looks like an economic war is a brewing. It will crash the whole world economy if they keep it up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00094278 = 5.421 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32984 @ 0.0009431 = 31.1072 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 522 @ 0.00307122 = 1.6032 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00305318 = 3.0532 BTC [-] {9}
bounce: so god's grace is in the quality of your RNG?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0589876 = 0.118 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform you mentioned in the past that you did not care for mechanical hard drives. Does this mean you put a flash drive in your Libretto?
decimation: how did you adapt to the ancient ide connectors?
decimation: I like your idea of underprovisioning the drive to leave room for bad flash cells
bounce: or a pata<->cf converter
decimation: I guess capacity isn't an issue here really
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24271 @ 0.00094235 = 22.8718 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+]
decimation: I wish there were an ssd available that let you examine its innards
decimation: but now that you mention it, they would be a good place to find cheap flash chips
BCB: mircea_popescu, did Gilliams list on mpex
decimation: bunnie has a whole post on hacking SD cards
ozbot: On Hacking MicroSD Cards « bunnie's blog
decimation: the microcontroller on board is basically free
decimation: I was speaking to a greybeard EE last night. He lamented that most compE kids coming out of school want to put a high-end media CPU on embedded projects so they can run java or something stupid
decimation: thus making most of the cost of the development for these things go to firmware
benkay: "Those concerned about e-waste may (or may not) be pleased to know that it’s also common for vendors to use recycled flash chips salvaged from discarded parts."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the guys are retards of prime order, which is why i quoted it.
decimation: Or get weeks of battery life out of a lithium cell
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: bounce the thing is, evolution algo looks for fine little hairs on things. bad rng adds hairs of its own. it's as if you'd be having two species fighting it out. often enough the one you're interested in gets overwhelmed
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nn, "expert systems" and other prime snake oil has long been the substance used to maks government graft.
decimation: of course, NN do work as ascii pointed out
decimation: just not against problems of the "I don't know what I want" variety
ozbot: Thinking Machines - The Daily WTF
ozbot: The Rise and Fall of Thinking Machines, Bankruptcy Article | Inc.com
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform freer people would make home candy in the pattern and distribute it to neighbourhood kids.
mircea_popescu: decimation asciilifeform also point out that even a broom shoots once.
bounce: "hairs of its own"... well, that sort-of works. my understanding was more along the lines of bad RNGs have higher risk of getting stuck in local minima, but anyway. nothing like having and obscure joke get dissected to death.
decimation: " According to a press release from the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA), until 2008, the CBP would snap pictures of the trademarks and other info on suspected counterfeit chips and send the images to semiconductor firms for verification. That stopped with when the Department of Homeland Security implemented a new security policy."
decimation: Because actually inspecting things would violate the rights of the grey-market importers
decimation: or, to be more precise, hiring and paying competent inspectors is a bridge too far for USG
ozbot: Fluke, we love you but you're killing us. - News - SparkFun Electronics
decimation: did you ever wonder how many TSA agents could identify diddled electronics with their xray machines?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00094421 = 23.5108 BTC [+] {3}
decimation: so, in the land of the free, the USG has granted a monopoly on yellow DMM's and then began enforcing the monopoly using taxpayer funds.
decimation: Except, that's exactly what happened with the boston tea party
ozbot: Puddy Paints His Face [Seinfeld] - YouTube
decimation: yeah I have noticed a trend here with a variety of electronic products
decimation: yeah, but making lame patents isn't going to win in the end
decimation: well, in this specific case, I think it will be impossible to create a ring of patents that will stop the mongol hordes
decimation: It's always going to be more expensive to pay lawyers than to develop a patent-evading version of a device
mircea_popescu: you familiar with the concept of invincible ignorance ?
mircea_popescu: stuffing hands in ears and yelling works "indefinitely".
decimation: well, in the specific case of high-end test equipment, most buyers are not going to be easily swayed by bs
mircea_popescu: but there's going to be a corner somehwere the retarded kids gather
mircea_popescu: and talk among each other about how "putin is living in a different world"
ozbot: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage - Michael S. Teitelbaum - The Atlantic
bounce: loved $article about shenzen though. made me wish for actual EE skill.
decimation: Even in electrical and electronic engineering?an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad?U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013.
☟︎ decimation: what do you say about a "superpower" that can barely employ 300,000 EE's
mircea_popescu: but it can't turn 100mn ghetto kids into more than 300k passible ee's
decimation: asian countries will subsidize them to the hilt
mircea_popescu: afaik actualy us-citizen ee's vs total ee's have a worse salary problem than women/men in non-government, actually productive jobs do.
mircea_popescu: he couldn'rt force them to work webcams naked for a month is the worst part.
decimation: my experience as us undergrad EE about 10 years ago
ozbot: MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery. - YouTube
decimation: 1/3 chinese, 1/3 indian, 1/3 white males
mircea_popescu: "we are the premier engineer and science institution in teh werld"
decimation: grad department (and profs) 80% chinese/indian
decimation: wrt embedded stuff "lifting off the net" never works well
benkay: all americans are lacking supervision, though.
mircea_popescu: see, if the context is, "be able to power bulb with battery on request or spend the next month poledancing in mumbai"
decimation: well, as long as the asians keep shipping those parts
decimation: to be an American today is to put your head deep in the lion's mouth, on the understanding that he won't bite
mircea_popescu: decimation indefinitely extensible. "be able to also design the battery"
decimation: at some point the bills will come due. It's hard to see how the US is going to add much value to anything with only 300k EEs
mircea_popescu: "we are adding the TRUE value to everything through teh social media"
benkay: i wish i'd had an education in the classic sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform vaugely reminiscent of all the chinese administrative reorganisations
benkay: old books, hard problems, canings, etc.
mircea_popescu: basically the chinese ran all the middle ages on a sort of govt-sponsored us university program
bounce: nothing for it but give yourself one, even if N years late.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.07270143 = 1.0905 BTC [+] {3}
decimation: from the article: Surprisingly, some of the largest and most heavily financed scientific fields, such as biomedical research, are among those with the least attractive career prospects, as a recent blue-ribbon advisory committee reported to the Director of the National Institutes of Health. "
mircea_popescu: i hate greenspun for having deleted his original discussion of his adventures with "expert vcs"
benkay: bounce: that's what i'm working on. -assets has been an intellectual godsend.
benkay: in other news, my user group got kicked from our corporate sponsor's shop next month for a "women in tech event"
benkay: "great!" i said to the desk operator responsible for scheduling things while I seethed internally.
benkay: mircea_popescu: you're not paying me to spend any time at that domain i don't think
decimation: at least Mr. Cray had the good sense to die in a car accident
mircea_popescu: i had a friend. he was a touch paranoid, so he ended up carrying a bodyguard with him everywhere, in spite of living in a controlled town
mircea_popescu: eventually he got an electyed position, which gave him a driver.
mircea_popescu: he hated being driven around, so his car arrangement consisted of him driving two people about, who had nothing to do.
mircea_popescu: eventually he died, in a car crash, rushing home tired etc.
mircea_popescu: i wanted the obituary to read "at least he had his bodyguard with him" but people thought it's too soon.
decimation: yeah perhaps it is still too early for my dark Seymour Cray joke. He was a giant amoung elves
mircea_popescu: anyway, check out benkay ascetically depriving himself of internet lulz.
ozbot: Seymour Cray Biography
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Always interesting to see your stats
benkay: internet lulz are cheap, mircea_popescu.
benkay: and those aren't even terribly lulzy!
benkay: pantagruel and gargantua is more entertaining than btctalk.org
benkay: Wooster and Jeeves being far more entertaining on basically every metric.
benkay: written by professionals, acted by professionals...
bounce: I say. In the spirit of expensive lulz, wish I had the spare change to buy up cray and move their headquarters to 4 2nd inf loop
the20year1: without him we wouldn't have the last starfighter
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves is that dope ? /// is what what now?
ozbot: Markopolos Letter to the SEC about Madoff | Doug Cornelius - JDSupra
mircea_popescu: (of course, the guy was ignored. by the sec and everyone else on the fiat-forums)
ThickAsThieves: i started this writing thinking i wouldnt be a hipster and use footnotes
mircea_popescu: "Yeah I am just messing with your minds and have no actual technical ability. But maybe someone does who is reading my points and maybe they will do something. I am hoping. You see I don't really care how we get the solution, as long as we get one. I am not the young productive programmer that I once was with two good eyes (not very productive since losing one eye and acquiring an apparently progressive, incurable peri
mircea_popescu: pheral neuropathy auto-immune condition caused by an incurable STD which is also morphing into neuropathy every where not just peripheral and causes me chronic fatigue syndrome which causes frequent deliriousness+pain which makes it easier for me to write in a forum than to do the more intellectually sharp+focused work of actual programming... I only get opportunities to program depending on my body maybe every few day
mircea_popescu: Neuropathy is unpredictable. One minute I am doing fine, the next my face aches, tinnitus (motor in my ear), then suddenly my abdomen, then feet, then can't swallow and have a "fear of imminent suffocation" anxiety attack, feeling that my stomach wants to exit my body, etc.."
mircea_popescu: why is it that bitcoin attracts all the weirdos and assorted cruft refused everywhere
mircea_popescu: what are we supposed to do, erect columbia's statue on riker's island over here ?!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6334999 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17166 @ 0.00094503 = 16.2224 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7034 @ 0.00094618 = 6.6554 BTC [+]
jurov: mircea_popescu: if they accepted me at ibm, maybe i won't be here, too
jurov: what i heard ibm job is much cozier than getting worried for several months if that coinbr contraption is actually gonna fed you someday
mircea_popescu: but in the sense of accident "i'd have been to busy to hear of bitcoin" or in the sense of stupidity ?
jurov: not stupidity, just choosing easier path
jurov: but ibm had no part-time position for me, so i said fuck you. i'll try freelancing
mircea_popescu: here's the difference : suppose a guy is a carpenter, and he goes to new york. there's no jobs there, so he goes to oregon and makes himself a cabin.
mircea_popescu: suppose there's a guy with no profession. he loiters a while in new york but eventually all the beat cops know him so he goes to oregon
mircea_popescu: now you telling me there's no difference you see here ?
jurov: i'm just telling you why i think non-cruft fails to be attracted to bitcoin
mircea_popescu: "This article explores this fourth possible explanation for the dearth of women in science: They found better jobs."
jurov: cannot say anything about the cruft group
jurov: i see surprisingly large part of intellingent people (in sense they can get easily over-average salary) trapped in conspirational mindset
jurov: to them bitcoin looks like another conspiration, i spose
mircea_popescu: i've had it up to here with in-their-mind slick fucks trying to turn bitcoin into some sort of corporate sales management device.
mircea_popescu: not that they're hard to crush individually, but there's a fucking pipe of them.
mircea_popescu: Part of the answer may be that young people fail to appreciate the risk that they will become more like old people when they are old. The young person sees the old tenured academic, ignored by his younger colleagues in a culture that values hot new ideas, sign up to be on committees. The youngster never asks "This oldster has tenure. He draws the same salary regardless of whether he sits through those interminable bori
mircea_popescu: ng committee meetings. Why would he agree to do it? Why wouldn't he rather be playing squash, riding a horse, flying an aircraft, walking his dog, etc.?" The distressing possibility that the oldster agreed to be on the committee so that he would have a venue in which people would listen to him does not occur to the youngster.
benkay: mircea_popescu: regarding weirdos and cruft - is not everyone else busy running their businesses, tending to their mistresses etc?
decimation: well, academia has been transformed into bureaucratic employment
mircea_popescu: you'd have to be an idiot to structure your business (and especially mistress!) so that you tend to them.
benkay: wait how does the business tend to you?
decimation: what's the difference between the gentleman sitting on a porch waiting for a welfare check and a professor sitting in a committee waiting for a tenure check?
mircea_popescu: for instance by producing ready resources (cash flow, but not just) in disproportion to your actual effort
benkay: mistresses i get, mircea_popescu but the business? does it not take ongoing tweaking and leadership?
mircea_popescu: if you want bread, and i want bread, and you spend an hour and make a loaf
mircea_popescu: and i spend an hour and make forty-nine and a half loaves
mircea_popescu: i'd say my business tended to me worth 48 loaves and change.
mircea_popescu: decimation but i suspect pg's point stands from a time before that.
decimation: certainly those who desire attention would be willing to pay to work as a teacher, actor, etc
mircea_popescu: now, obviously, training a new girl or starting a new business will be a net negative
mircea_popescu: but provided you're any good the end result is so far out of proportion to the original that your net negative becomes a rounding error.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24650 @ 0.00094618 = 23.3233 BTC [+]
benkay: ah sorry net negative? even after the time and energy pumped into the new girl or venture?
benkay: strikes me that at a certain point you come out ahead, dishes getting cleaned/loaves getting tendered.
decimation: ?SAP is the best thing that ever happened to
decimation: computer people. It appeals to businesses that are too stupid to
decimation: understand and model their own processes but too rich to simply
decimation: continue relying on secretaries and file cabinets,?
decimation: and why are they "too rich" to simply rely on secretaries and file cabinets? fiat loans, fiat bills, fiat life
mircea_popescu: the one affront an old lion could never forget, let alone forgive, would be hiring his secretary away.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 174 @ 0.00591526 = 1.0293 BTC [-] {13}
mircea_popescu: the reason is that do you have any idea what a spider monkey capable of navigating those filing cabinets is worth ?
mircea_popescu: to this day the most respected woman on a hospital floor is she who knows where the binder goes.
mircea_popescu: not she who can take out the pancreas, make a liver out of it and pluck it back in.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 21 @ 0.05897618 = 1.2385 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06200105 = 0.124 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0639314 = 0.1918 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.631 = 1.262 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07589957 = 0.3795 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: yeah it's obvious to me that a good secretary is extremely valuable
decimation: the fact that she might spider through electronic rather than physical files changes nothing
mircea_popescu: you can write a good secretary for bash or perl if your records are digital.
mircea_popescu: analog dusted old binders are as of yet an unsolved problem
ninjashogun: the main reason is that when it takes a minute or to do something, you take more time with it. Same if thre's a physical good. It's why moleskine notebooks contain better diagrams and sketches than legal pads do.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 500 @ 0.00571404 = 2.857 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1028 @ 0.00094618 = 0.9727 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 40 @ 0.06148784 = 2.4595 BTC [+] {12}
mircea_popescu: benkay incidentally, this approach also illustrates what exactly the current "privilege" discussion spearheaded by the socialists is, and why exactly it is braindamaged.
mircea_popescu: "underserved" and "unearned" income are exactly the cornerstone of productive economic activity.
mircea_popescu: they are as much a part of life as hot water and kitchen appliances, and moreover prerequisite to both.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.06449997 = 0.258 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 25 @ 0.00453907 = 0.1135 BTC [+] {3}
decimation: the question is: who is getting the unearned income and for what reasons?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10826 @ 0.00094747 = 10.2573 BTC [+]
ninjashogun: I thought about some of the architectural things you point out re cardano. As a practical question, how do we determine the limits of risk compensation arguments?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07416684 = 0.445 BTC [-] {3}
ninjashogun: For example, it is doubtless true that people who use condoms will have sex in some situations (with unknown partners they're not really sure of) that they wouldn't otherwise.
ninjashogun: But I don't think the Risk Compensation argument is effective against condom use.
ninjashogun: (I mean, for example, in theory you can do a deep check on all of your partners and KNOW they have no STD's and also don't sleep with anyone else othre than you. Condom use lets you have some protection in cases where this isn't done.)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60251201 BTC [-]
ninjashogun: by deep check I mean you can get to know them deeply, even run medical tests, as well as trust their behavior on a deep level, as you do with your brothers and sisters for example.
CheckDavid: My fellow brothers and sisters praiser the lord
decimation: ninjashogun are you saying that if the enemy possesses your cardano, then it is suspect?
ninjashogun: he said that the only thing is that it's a bad, cheap laptoop
ninjashogun: decimation, so this relates to an architectural discussion I had with asciilifeform on it. Specifically, a very GOOD reason not to include ANY second factor, not even the most trivial one (such as not writing your name and bitcoin address on the Cardano) is because any second factor will INCREASE the risky behavior in its users.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.11950724 = 0.5975 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.059 = 0.295 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06200008 = 0.31 BTC [-] {2}
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, could you continue on your $300 netbook example?
decimation: there's no method to gaurantee the integrity of any device that could have been in the enemy's hands
ninjashogun: Integrity is, obviously, right out the window.
decimation: well, then how does checking for std's map to this?
ninjashogun: decimation, the example is actually not about integrity. :)
ninjashogun: decimation, i.e. if it has been in adversary's hands, the result is obviously 0% integrity. What else is the result? I identified a couple of results to asciilifeform (including threat verctor back to PC should it be replaced without the Owner's knowledge)
ninjashogun: Both map to STD's. Both reducing the threat vector back to the PC, and reducing the immediate loss without any effort on the part of the enemy, will increase risky behavior.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform - let's change the approach slightly. Suppose that the "risk compensation effect" were 500x, and the SLIGHTEST reduction in risk will be compensated 500x by risky behavior.
decimation: nevertheless, I fail to see how this is the ammo manufacturer's problem
mircea_popescu: yet versace purse makers intimately understand why cheap chinese knockoffs are their problem
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, in this hypothesis, clearly it would make the Cardano MUCH safer to physically print the private key on it (ascii-padded) on a piece of paper that is folded a single time and taped to the Cardano. If users MUST do this or there is no way to do this, they will treat the Cardano much more safely.
ninjashogun: So that is true of a 500x risk compensation psychology. In this case, every Cardano should have a private key easily legibly printed on it for anyone tosee.
benkay: how does this printed key work with the "fry" switch?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so, how do we determine the difference between Steering Wheel Spike - print the private key on the Cardano for anyone to see - and genuinely sound decisions added for gravity?
benkay: or are you proposing abandoning the fry operation, ninjashogun?
benkay: i'm trying to drag the lunacy out into the open, asciilifeform.
ninjashogun: benkay, yes it's just a thought experiment. Clearly to SOME extent people would treat their cardano's slightly more securely physically if the printed key were on it.
benkay: (kicking and screaming though it may)
ninjashogun: benkay, but you see it would be wrong to do so. That is too much added insecurity.
ninjashogun: even though it would cause people to treat their Cardano's in a slightly more coveted manner.
benkay: if the users of the cardano need the key printed on the outside to incentivize them to treat it carefully, those are the wrong customers for NSA.
benkay: again with this "mass market, make it stupid" SV bullshit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00094635 = 19.4948 BTC [-]
ninjashogun: benkay, not so. This is asciilifeform's current argument for refusing to add any fallout mitigation for stolen Cardano's (including use of a passphrase that gets discarded after a while and memory cycled.).
benkay: don't you understand the importance of capturing markets with shoddy products asciilifeform?!
ninjashogun: So under the current Cardano architecture, there is 0 mitigation for even accidental loss, or theft. There is no pass phrase that is possible without rewriting the firmware yourself.
ninjashogun: Oh, this is what I understood from asciilifeform
benkay: sign the cardano key with your master key, and revoke it when you lose it.
benkay: there's more to it than that, but that's the high-level approach.
ninjashogun: benkay, fair enough :). However if you are not aware that it has been out of your possession for a few minutes or hours this does not help.
ninjashogun: I personally don't like tamper evident seals at all.
ninjashogun: I don't think it's possible to make a true tamper evident device.
benkay: ninjashogun: that's the whole point of "you guarantee physical security, cardano guarantees electrical security."
benkay: if you can't guarantee physical security, the device is useless.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00094607 = 11.684 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0.000145 / 0.00015512 / 0.000156 (1000 shares, 0.16 BTC), 7D: 0.0001 / 0.00010918 / 0.000156 (6000 shares, 0.66 BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.0001236 / 0.00021 (79650 shares, 9.85 BTC)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, let me ask you this. Will any Cardano ever be lost or stolen?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it is a good question because in the case of the Soviety Submarines, it is possible that none will ever melt down due to user error, ever.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, in which case any change to that (by making it "safer") would in fact result in worse effects.
ninjashogun: (asciilifeform had an example of how soviet submarines did not self-regulate their nuclear reactors but always had a person in the loop, who therefore understood the gravity of his situatoin.)
ozbot: Shall be Delivered | The Whet
ninjashogun: So, if we know, for sure, that in some cases Cardanos will be lost or stolen - is it possible that an architectural change MAY make the Cardano more secure oerall by reducing the immediate fallout from these cases?
decimation: can you propose such a technology? a spike in the steering wheel is not such a precaution.
benkay: asciilifeform: do you think this is a case for Hanlon?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I did learn from it, yes. Clearly Risk Compensation is not a law :) :) It is possible to mitigate fallout in some ways without automatically getting an exact compensation.
decimation: it's also obvious that any precautions taken could be bypassed, and thus are worse than features
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, for example if you introduced an architectural change that, as a direct result, meant half of thefts did not result in key becoming accessible to thief - would there be instantly twice as many thefts as a result?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if only one tenth of thefts actually resulted in the key becoming known to the thief - would there be exactly ten times as many thefts as a result?
decimation: he's a high-functioning troll, as best as anyone can gather
ninjashogun: Apocalyptic, I am trying to understand the architectural trade-offs in the Cardano, and, specifically, why the private key MUST be stored in the plain with no mitigation against loss. (Except key revocation, if the user is aware of it). Why it has to be "fail-dangerous" and not "fail-90% dangeorus"
benkay: ninjashogun: how would you make the key less accesible to an attacker?
ninjashogun: For what it's worth, I'm not a troll and do have some experience with product design trade-offs.
benkay: mircea_popescu: tib's my thesis here.
benkay: ninjashogun: all trolls say "I'm not a troll".
Apocalyptic: ninjashogun, I hope i don't use any products resulting of your experience
ninjashogun: benkay, that's not true. Some trolls are happy to troll and tell you they're trolling.
ninjashogun: benkay - through the methods other people have alreayd suggested (or something similar) to asciilifeform.
ninjashogun: benkay, a variation on one of the known methods.
benkay: less accessible is not acceptable.
benkay: (for reasons you fail apparently to grasp)
ninjashogun: benkay, and I understand the Risk Compensation argument deeply and with nuance.
benkay: seems as though you're the only one.
benkay: i think there's a good reason society's locked you up in a 100/mo shithole, sir.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0619926 = 0.124 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: you're incapable of even convincing the government to pay your welfare.
ninjashogun: benkay - Yes, you have just written a good example of trolling.
ozbot: Keyboard fight - YouTube
decimation: ninjashgun has your startup managed to acquire financing?
Mats_cd03: whenever i see tumblr my brain tells me "boobies"
Mats_cd03: ive been trained by mp to react to tumblr
ninjashogun: decimation, as I mentioned before we are at the pre-financing stage - the startup is not raising money right now. I know a lot of stories of people who built great things with burn rates near $0. Airbnb is now closing a round at $10B. They sold cereal to launch.
Mats_cd03: your knowledge of how other startups work is impressive
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, I worked for a startup that was acquired, as one of just two employees. Yes, I know how typical funded startups operate.
Mats_cd03: thats cool, what was the service or good being sold
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, it was called "don't feed the trolls" and we sold custom consulting services that consisted of "Don't feed the trolls". Hope this answers your question.
Mats_cd03: but consulting firms are cool, i guess...
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, I humbly disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion.
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, honestly I clearly have given this channel way too much access to what I'm doing already. There's a reason stealth mode startups operate in that way.
Mats_cd03: i think youve spent too much time drinking the silicon valley koolaid
Mats_cd03: if an idea was special nobody would be
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, very humbly, perhaps people here may benefit from a bit more experience with them.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, have you had bad experiences with startups?
decimation: 'last mile' power line modems are particuarly idiotic
mircea_popescu: "send emails over your farts! it's great for the environment and ok for your wallpaper"
decimation: spam the shortwave spectrum for a few megabits
decimation: sending data through an accoustically coupled gas pipe would be amusing but slow
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06200001 = 0.186 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: PricewaterhouseCoopers: Global: Insights & Solutions: MoneyTree
ozbot: super sewer robots
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.11950724 = 0.717 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: decimation and if there's a gas explosion everyone gets unfriended ?
ninjashogun: It's the difference between "How can I help you get from a $500K nominal valuation - your last round - to $10M" and "Wait, you're not taking a salary? Why don't you just go on welfare?" -- this channel above :)
dub: I know someone that implemented IPoW(et)S(tring) at university
ozbot: INSPECTOR SYSTEMS - MAKRO Plus, Service robots for sewer inspection
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18076 @ 0.0009479 = 17.1342 BTC [+] {3}
ninjashogun: benkay - you are reinforcing my point. valuation might not be value, but it's clear that airbnb is worth more than $200K in cash.
ninjashogun: benkay - moreover valuation literally is value, in that it literally is someone paying literally that price.
benkay: you miss the point again.
ninjashogun: benkay - I think you miss the point. Valuation literally, bydefinition, is value.
benkay: so all of GLBSE is worthwhile i guess.
ozbot: Forbidden Hillcrest, The Sewer Robots of Pulaski County
decimation: interesting. Such a robot could be quite useful for setting up covert data connections
ozbot: Insight Vision Jet Propelled Camera
ozbot: The risk compensation theory and bicycle helmets -- Adams and Hillman 7 (2): 89 -- Injury Prevention
Mats_cd03: what is this "stove discipline" you speak of
Mats_cd03: is this something you can only experience in the dreaded lubyanka
mircea_popescu: well, natural gas is dangerous, in that it'll level a house.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way kids and senile old people have of causing serious trouble
ozbot: Merchants shut down after East Harlem gas explosion plead for help - NY Daily News
mircea_popescu: 116th street wow. and yet it has buildings and everything ?!
ozbot: Crews focus on gas lines in New York building explosion
mircea_popescu: data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAArwAAAGbBAMAAADU1V5jAAAAJFBMVEX////g4OAgICBgYGBAQEAAAACgoKDAwMCAgIDl5f/U1O3d3d00vM7SAAAURUlEQVR4nO2du3MbNx7HoQcszbjR5DF3paLHJaXOGWVSchwzcQnThG0NG41z7jWZ81zryUWX9hoWTH9FOjWs/M/d4rUvYHcB7EKiud/vaChyd38L8MMfQQD7w28JgSAIatZnR37HeR4Wpb2LhCd/UH3B50ePnp5dE35D5pTzud6+d/JNtvPsiHB+KsgeMvLPs5uDpz9lz80x08qZ9l6T8yN6rF9lx9CJeipPn72eyw2fn/yYPe48Obs2+4sjt0+X73+ZXJ4+eUn4JHv/p99+Z7Y/n16Qk9sJ
mircea_popescu: mX2bPSGHU3Yw/+31++fTmya8j97s8Ov3xg9LeOXpDd6d8x/OP2TfmfmTNwXU6Wm6N/iwmtJH/8ne+vR69ka7l9IJ2Z+Qky8vMi67x5lrPmF7L3ZeXh5lW7JN81+/Jm+/mWYOff3u4vaDMpk/Ort4d51tOnj6Y3bM93RyebM7IY/k6Q3evVdkl2XIr8k5fX5ys3dyejR/ez63K7Ydup0e7b0g5MuL+eXNnJ49+0lvn/6ePfxyKlh+dpw93Wf7jMyn0iXnhH87P5j9xg9e/vx6/9WZNnl6+Pz4Umx6/112rv2v6OT9h/fXRJ2eZ+2OsBWf1ZH49MgOnV8eX353ezE7297G4fB8/gUTX+T57kS0va+yTc8yD/3r+fxo5+mbvQ8Zlw+kjndGzjNq54ezZy93zl9rk3df/M7OxKbbs+
mircea_popescu: nF7OkRneweXx5lluL0s2fPJF5NUrgrPd5l/9p5P5ltcdtL6O0PynsP3ujGYY8fi39vj/e/un1yPXv2XLyq4p2TafZyuid+Ci8n2uTLt9ev3ohNl5xP+CzDe/g682z95dCNQ+a9OzfSe/9CJ/vs85PLyXyL8f6b7v5NN46X5bb3LAOxe7w3M79j+9W2N0MrvPcFOdo5ea1Nds+Pnr4Qm26Pdsjs7YROdubZl8Fue49l23si8E6zD2Gb8V6+0z2H7CdM9By+N9uznsPe/Fd+k+M9mP36+v035zcar2h7d85+frX/+kSbHM7I7bHY9NmPl9fzw1cZtOkxKfccTr/9e6XnkOH9fprh3f363t/3PWk/+xbrjumBaHtnevuh6Pc+Of3sOMdL/nF280j3ezO85O3pue456M7YwUvy7oLk
mircea_popescu: PYfMO8Xrcr9XNO3lfu8+++Ls7VdzcnhmV2xL9GXK4djtdcKTfxLaS3ju3Vn3MVC09n7qPgaCoAcV5YRzlj0Swpn4g4YUI4zJR0IJzf4euj5bpka8HOotphoHF96rVaD+DDUo648+xj2tk9X8v0yCFQ4MvMOXDbxSafGyBrzLrPW4WmX/ruTBS75aXcnHVbZlKbdl/5dyT/b3pzyWr9ThysZplJ0wNzJ7dBnDv0UfJcSbtb36r9Yxy/EWKK+WV+Ixe71ccb1tqfZkf//LjhXY1OFXqzajpTHSe5Z/LBO9RR8lxNuoMt7lUpMwpFZl75V7VlfSe8t4eaPRKjfSn9DI8epvsyG1NB6dHaH3mMbhKm8cJGeX0dXK7MmeZo/i9H/wRG/RRw+Od7VcrUqOeLWstL2F9670sTlet5HZow
mircea_popescu: iLPXzU3lsjtYrBu7Lwlg5E49CK98q0vV54cyOzZ8Rtr+hHiZ+2vI+11H2sK/PTlnfMlrqPdSVaZfnEZSQ7ZmJPdnqzZ1s7Zi14C7ld66r68s/GPS1GHpX00CeIt7zLOY9W33jXfnj7rsfNJh7qZ12qec+y6++OWRNjrNgVqMEqed/WQ9WcAa9TQ+FlNl6mx8IZWTk0Bt7osrkDL+VU/XHGmfgrdgVq9Hhd3ivAqj/GOfAGiz7OSTU0DoKtuJ7JKOMEeIPEOvBSxVZ4r6QLvEFinBpmrAEv4wqvbB6AN0iMduKVLS9+2qIk8PIWvFnbS0R3LKOLjlm4mPj2K1TchRfDiqSNA/D2w0sUXknZgb
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6139998 BTC [+]
benkay: nice steady rate of inflation in the usd?
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 the ^OEX, ie standard and poor 100, is the index of us stocks. which supposedly have been moving like it's animated by the gosplan
ozbot: S&P 100 INDEX Index Chart - Yahoo Finance
Namworld: Damn, I decoded what was pasted and i got a large image with just a few pixel high line of actual picture.
mircea_popescu: the image comes straighyt from there, who knew these guys use mpex tech o.O
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, madoff chose a return that was set not to be "too good to be true" while working more on giving the appearance of very low baked-in risk. He did not give out returns that made anyone wealthy - he was just very consistent about it.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1700 @ 0.00012401 = 0.2108 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 34 @ 0.0730414 = 2.4834 BTC [-] {4}
benkay: i start to understand the furor over QE ca 2007
benkay: "but we're already printing money every week! what else are we to do?"
benkay: "i have a pwan! pwint MOAR!"
benkay: what timeframe? just out of curiousity.
benkay: i've been looking for fb puts on the same scale.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00094859 = 7.2093 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, the berkshire bitbet is something else
ozbot: Facebook, Inc. (FB) Option Chain - Stock Puts & Calls - NASDAQ.com
mircea_popescu: 98 no bets for a 34.98 btc pool. 14 yes bets for a 1007.6 pool
benkay: smart money is big money.
mircea_popescu: i'll end up making 3% over a year and people will be o noes, such low return
benkay: i was under the impression that 2% was an outrageous return in btc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00094949 = 13.0555 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15358 @ 0.00094855 = 14.5678 BTC [-]
taub: what exchange is lake
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 36 @ 0.0055591 = 0.2001 BTC [+]
hdbuck: i really cant tell so far
hdbuck: lol yeah, i just digged up MK essays and got caught between fires
kakobrekla: yeah, i better stop using initials for my email signature
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11522 @ 0.00094589 = 10.8985 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: mp, mk, the keys are right next to each other
mircea_popescu: "The sooner this community gets rid of these stains/schemes currently tainting the innovative and revolutionary world of bitcoin which they are piggybacking, the sooner we will make progress."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6230002 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: are these the idiots who whine at facebook about whether x y z is a country ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 58 @ 0.00608565 = 0.353 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.00619576 = 0.2602 BTC [+] {3}
cazalla: Jewish Internet Defense Force
ozbot: Check Fund Manager Wall of Shame
cazalla: I would probably get along great with radan lol
hdbuck: what?! they havent had add Karpeles to that list yet? ^^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00094323 = 2.2638 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <mpoe-pr> you're aware that there's this bitcoin forum that i work on every day. and on this forum, there are sub-forums. and one of these is off-topic.
mircea_popescu: <mpoe-pr> there's a thread there for movie recommendations. forum people. recommending movies to each other. can you imagine the horror? cause it's worse than you imagine.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61519 BTC [-]
hdbuck: mircea_popescu, could you please enlighten me regarding what is actually going to happen in bitcoinland? i mean, all that junk going on with the BTCFoundation, the heists, the banks, the whole damn world? what to expect if not some shitstorm lies and persecutions?
hdbuck: i figured you had a pretty good idea tho cuz i'm clueless :)
mircea_popescu: who knows, maybe the sec finally decides to stop dicking around and we get some scams actually blown open properly,
mircea_popescu: rather than this current "pick bugs off the floor put them, in the bucket whence they run back out" thing we've been doing for the past three years
mircea_popescu: my cock really doesn't taste as bad as people tell themselves.
hdbuck: i saw your first post on the btcforum was: "I'm pretty convinced we will see 1mn$ / BTC at some future point" havent changed your mind so far? ^^
ozbot: Latest posts of: Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu: that aside, bitcoin will outlive the dollar, in which sense any arbitrary price point will be reached eventually.
hdbuck: a joke taht had kept you busy for the last couple of years
hdbuck: anyho, still reading logs. im not going to bother any longer. keeping up the faith :)
diametric: lots of new people stopping by lately i see
cazalla: I'm fairly new and my being here, I would expect more soon diametric
mircea_popescu: curious which is the first hip hop artist to make it here.
mircea_popescu: they all pretend like they're businessmen, it's the hip thing to claim
cazalla: given it takes a year to go through the /r/bitcoin and bitcointalk wringer, i am thinking most end up here after some time and not straight off thet bat
cazalla: diametric: learning curve i would think
diametric: there is a surprisingly amount of people that really dislike mircea_popescu. I've encountered a few that proclaim he's a scammer, but when questioned on what scam specifically they fail to give details.
diametric: and by association they've linked this channel to scammers
cazalla: I'm your average person, can't keep up with some of the conversation here, need to go and google words for definitions and so forth but I'm here (got started in Bitcoin nov 2012) so I would expect others who are average to start turning up as I have
mircea_popescu: the convenient explanation being that they're exposed scammers/shills with a bone for pr.
mircea_popescu: the more likely explanation is probably that they're not actually as smart as they see themsekves.
cazalla: diametric: I think the dislike might come from feeling inferior due to the conversations here
cazalla: If you put ones ego aside for a moment, there is a lot you can learn, at least that has been my experience to date
diametric: possibly, it also reminds me of when someone wins at something, people immediately assume they cheated somehow because they themselves didn't win.
hdbuck: im really trying to grasp what happened with the massive PUT orders in early feb. MP's feb report mentioned his ability to stand for the sake of bitcoin, and being well connected, etc... But who was on the other side? Why such orders in bulk at this given period? :/
diametric: asciilifeform: found a device with a ridiculous ppi