⏐︎ 12176
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20926 @ 0.00048224 = 10.0914 BTC [+]
mod6: Ok while I work on this for a while, I'll pull that bundle down. Should have one up sometime in the next few days to a week.
phf: slime
phf: err, wrong buffer..
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296513 << the rent bezzle solves a problem, yes. which could be solved in other ways. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 23:38:25; mircea_popescu: (which is why i'm kinda chuckling to myself every time alf goes on a rant about teh rent bezzle. sure, it sucks. imagine a world without it.)
asciilifeform: orc removal is not rocket surgery, has been done before !
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296516 << noooooo ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 23:39:50; mod6: One can do this for sure. The idea was, if the user just has the scrpit, and nothing else, they could sync all the latest wots/seals/vpatches from a mirror. ☟︎
asciilifeform: wot is to be populated MANUALLY
asciilifeform: this is the kind of thing i was afraid of when first contemplating automating any of this
asciilifeform: duplicating shithub is PERDITION
asciilifeform: fetching wot automagically defeats the very purpose of using pgp
asciilifeform: (how do you know what keys you ended up with, if you do this ?!!!!111)
phf: asciilifeform: why did you go with a separate keys folder instead of relying on existing pubring?
asciilifeform: phf: because FUCK pgp 'rings'
asciilifeform: i fucking hate hidden state
asciilifeform: and weird config formats
asciilifeform: a ring, if it is to be tolerated, is a dir I CREATED DELIBERATELY full of pubkeys IN STANDARD FORMAT
asciilifeform: that can be managed using ordinary unix commands
asciilifeform: FUCK 'keyrings'
asciilifeform: pgp verification ought to be invoked 'gpg --verify pubkey payload'
asciilifeform: that this was not done, is one of 1,001 atrocities
asciilifeform: i cannot even begin to fathom the kind of retardation that produced 'keyrings'.
asciilifeform: (actually i can. it was... winblowz compatibility. of course.)
phf: fair enough
asciilifeform: i wanna remove a key? rm ~/.wot/key.
asciilifeform: add? cp key ~/.wot
asciilifeform: etc.
phf: actually yeah. i was always curious why "trust system" that presumably is baked into keyrings is different from signing the key with your sig
asciilifeform: because tards.
asciilifeform: or why is pgp (1.4.10, say) 19 FUCKING MB ?!!!!
asciilifeform: of SOURCE
asciilifeform: for comparison, therealbitcoin is < 700kB
phf: for fair comparison therealbitcoin loc should include relevant openssl bits
asciilifeform: atm nobody knows precisely their mass.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296476 << lulzy, the one i have at home, apparently, is better ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 21:31:08; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform>had standard lcd. but the latter do not resemble the machines i have previously used having such << speaing of which, i went to a local cinema yest. place tries real hard to be us like. they had digital projector. not only were the pixels visible with naked eye from middle of room, but
asciilifeform: has none of these issues.
asciilifeform: 'dlp' (mems array) with laser illumination. less than 1k usd when it was new.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296518 << yes!! ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 23:42:59; mircea_popescu: as intended, every v installation includes a step where user securely populates his pubkey dir.
phf: by the way i stopped by some russian bookstore on the way to saunas and spotted this utterly ridiculous shalamov cover http://static.ozone.ru/multimedia/books_covers/1011527549.jpg. i don't even.
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1PoOpVA )
asciilifeform: what's ridiculous? that he's standing right next to the wire? sure.
asciilifeform: in the fine tradition of sf cover art, where the artist must never, under any circumstances, know anything at all about the inside of the book.
phf: hehe, indeed
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296461 << dead link ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 21:09:34; mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20151011.tar.gz
gribble: The operation succeeded.
phf: or that there's wire to begin with, or that he has a fur hat, or some semblance of warm clothes. or the "sharapov and the bandit part 5" style of print
asciilifeform: archetype.
asciilifeform: just like the ubiquitous sherlock holmes with the funny hat and misshapen pipe
asciilifeform: or viking with horns
asciilifeform: this is also known as kabuki.
asciilifeform: (where we get 'ninjas wear black')
phf: i guess that's kind of like seeing conan the barbarian cover on beowulf
asciilifeform: exactly.
asciilifeform: betcha there is such an edition.
asciilifeform: look for it in major american book shops.
asciilifeform: http://resizing.flixster.com/erPsTE8te0dgJJw4vd29-f_pgLw=/800x1200/dkpu1ddg7pbsk.cloudfront.net/movie/11/16/97/11169776_ori.jpg << and guess what.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PoPixd )
phf: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0442933/ <<
assbot: La légende de Beowulf (2007) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1PoPkVT )
asciilifeform: aha, it.
mod6: asciilifeform: <+mod6> Ok while I work on this for a while, I'll pull that bundle down. Should have one up sometime in the next few days to a week.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform like what other ways ? you're not willing to spend 12 hours a day beating them
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why not minefields ?
asciilifeform: and i hear auto-turrets have come a long way!
asciilifeform: as seen in korean dmz.
asciilifeform: and south africa.
asciilifeform: i hear that not-breeding-them-in-the-first-place also worked great
phf: biggest disappointment of visiting northrop grumman one time-- no auto-turrets. i thought surely there if nowhere else.
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296471 << i have the only altar and the only sacrifice-giving skill item; whoever would agree to be my apprentice would use my altar with my ingredients and give me all the loot, and in return they would get the experience ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 21:20:00; mircea_popescu: how'd that work danielpbarron ?
asciilifeform: phf: try aircraft carrier
mircea_popescu: you seem to be of the same persuasion of the good folk making "bitpurse.io".
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is the landmine going to identify them!
mircea_popescu: "oh, forger the hard problems involved while i focus on painting the fence! that'll do it!"
mircea_popescu: no, srsly ?
asciilifeform: ask the israelis
mircea_popescu: if it were as simple as orc = black we'd have long exterminated the blacks and be living in paradise
mircea_popescu: shit dun work.
mircea_popescu: <phf> asciilifeform: why did you go with a separate keys folder instead of relying on existing pubring? << more calmly explained, because pgp is marked for death. we're working deliberately towards replacing it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61392 @ 0.00048224 = 29.6057 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: the way this works best is that the guard knows everyone who belongs inside the wire, by face.
asciilifeform: anyone else has to sit in a cage and get 'buzzed in.'
phf: i gather as much from elsewhere in the logs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and HOW does he know them.
mircea_popescu: by face or by post devirgination remains irrespective.
asciilifeform: ideally, guard is one of the residents, who take turns on checkpoint duty.
asciilifeform: and know one another.
asciilifeform: in the old-fashioned, meatspace, dunbar sense.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'dlp' (mems array) with laser illumination. less than 1k usd when it was new. << un minimo respeto por el imbeciliator! argentina no es un pais pobre porque es rico en recursos umanos. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: more like scoursos umanos, but enfin.
asciilifeform: ahahahaha
mircea_popescu: your working projector intended for a home was 1k new, their "cinema multiplexo!11" projector was prolly 2k and they bought it on time, so paid 5k or w/e.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80800 @ 0.0004748 = 38.3638 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: anyway. the problem is not identification in the sense of this x = the x we know to be ok.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can't help but wonder if the blurry '90s thing was installed... deliberately! if it did not smudge, no one would know it is digital!!1!!11
mircea_popescu: the problem is that given a facebook friendlist of 50k imbecile 20something females who, if asked "like to read" and then if pressed are apparently unaware that books EVEN HAVE AUTHORS
mircea_popescu: which do you let in.
asciilifeform: ah, problem of 'who gets to move in' ?
mircea_popescu: well doh. how do you identify the nigger.
asciilifeform: well, first you check the applicant's forehead for brands.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> (where we get 'ninjas wear black') << weren't ninjas wearing black because convention for "not visible" ?
asciilifeform: if you don't see 'T' (thief), 'M' (mayhem)....
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: correct
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> i hear that not-breeding-them-in-the-first-place also worked great <<< how the fuck are you gonna manage this wonder. so you select a woman. and her spawn will... regress to the mean. of course. and she'll love it anwyay. of course. and now what ?
asciilifeform: ... no brands? he gets to have a chat with the residents
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reintroducing starvation would go a long way.
mircea_popescu: so then you should be a fan of the rent bezzle.\
mircea_popescu: it's pretty much the only thing working to starve reddit into submission.
asciilifeform: not seeing this submission
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> in the old-fashioned, meatspace, dunbar sense. << the OTHER problem with this is that there isn't eno9ugh space in the dunbar-based graph to cram everything you need.
mircea_popescu: even something as tiny as a porn studio will not be served by the model.
asciilifeform: how's that
mircea_popescu: let's go through the list.
mircea_popescu: modest studio = 6 camera people + 9 or so trainees ; about two dozen fluffers + administrative assistants ; about 2-300 models ; cleanning and maintenance crew ; execs and other suits.
mircea_popescu: you're over 300 people. they won't know each other.\
mircea_popescu: and this is not even fucking paramount or nlc ; and those are jack shit, basically they produce footage, big whoop. try making an atomic dirigible next.
asciilifeform: except in this hypothetical, we are not designing a soviet rocket factory, and pondering how to keep out spies from washington.
asciilifeform: we're designing a residential complex, and trying to keep out destructive lumpens
mircea_popescu: while designing a rocket factory that also produces jam.
mircea_popescu: this arbitrary division is naught but naivite in a wrapper.
asciilifeform: i doubt that any usaschwitz inmate would have a serious problem distinguishing 'want this as neighbour' from 'do not want' in five minutes of conversation.
mircea_popescu: i guarantee you no ustard could discern anything from his own shit.
asciilifeform: in practice, the 'do not want' is identifiable with minimal effort. because these are not spies from washington, but human refuse
mircea_popescu: people like the orcs themselves are eversoslighty better at it\
mircea_popescu: but at the massive cost of not doing anything worth the mention ever.
mircea_popescu: a la cecens. they can distinguish non-worthy dogfucker, yes.
mircea_popescu: problem is, they distinguish him by how he doesn't fuck goats like they all doi.
asciilifeform: where i live, at present, any experimentation in selectors ~other than rent bezzle~ is specifically forbidden by usg.
mircea_popescu: this may be true,
asciilifeform: but if it were not, different approaches could be tried
mircea_popescu: but it does not automatically make the emplaced system unoptimal.
asciilifeform: say, 'i want to live only with folks who graduated with science degrees before 2010' ☟︎
mircea_popescu: for that matter, also wheree you live, anything but oxygen respiration is forbidden by biology.
mircea_popescu: if it wasn't, alternatives could be tried.
mircea_popescu: sure, they could be tried. what of the trying.
asciilifeform: there is this thing called 'freedom of association'. used to be a thing in usa.
asciilifeform: today - specifically banned. if you want to sell or rent a house, it has to be done like-so.
asciilifeform: or jail.
mircea_popescu: you're still free to associate. buy a building, let your own slavegirls populate it frere of charge.
asciilifeform: buy rocket, build dome on mars, yes.
mircea_popescu: freedom was never for the poor.
mircea_popescu: not ever.
asciilifeform: which is where we get to the sacramental:
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-08-2015#1243116 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:18:24; asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
mircea_popescu: either that or make some money.
asciilifeform: i have a sequel!
mircea_popescu: and in yet another branch off this tree, im not even sure your ideas of selection would be a net positive.
mircea_popescu: only ppl with science degrees after 2010 ? my degree is fucking philosophy. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: and anthropology.
mircea_popescu: phf doesn't even look like he finished college.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform: 'my mandatory plastic toilet has chipped.' mircea_popescu: 'whaddayamean' asciilifeform: 'well, broke.' mircea_popescu: 'make some money! buy iridium toilet, like normal person!'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: notice that i did not say 'exterminate people who didn't graduate in maths.' i said 'what if people had freedom of association.' the example give was, well, an example.
asciilifeform: not a formula for robotic extermination army.
mircea_popescu: the example given was well, a case of dwimnwis.
asciilifeform: if one demands a 'final solution' - yes. but what i asked for was the freedom to try solutions other than bezzle.
mircea_popescu: yeah. except the absence of this freedom is no proof that the freedom would benefit, and your hypotheses as presented are unpersuasive.
mircea_popescu: and since we're picking on the structure of reality, why not the freedom to be a different height. maybe if you could experiment with height you'd have more pleasant urinatory experiences or who knows what.
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, you know the joke with the short guy in the public restroom ?
asciilifeform: hm?
mircea_popescu: a tall guy that has visible parkinson and a short guy happen in the same restroom
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is wrong with you ? asks shorty
mircea_popescu: well... you see... parkinson...
mircea_popescu: at which the shorty starts breakdancing too\
mircea_popescu: "what happened ? also parkinson ?"
mircea_popescu: "no, i just don't like having piss in my ears"
asciilifeform: l0lz
mircea_popescu: so yeah, if only we could experiment with height i could fuck throats standing.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile if you're curious and bored, read the coupla excellent mongraphs re life in london cca 1800.
asciilifeform: yes, i get it, iridium toilet on atomic dirigible is very spiffy
mircea_popescu: that was a place where very much such freedom to experiment.
asciilifeform: for those who have it.
asciilifeform: you mean the post-enclosures london?
asciilifeform: flooded with angry orcs?
mircea_popescu: all the coats were gray from all the home heating expwerimentation, and 40% of the population lived off processing garbage.\
asciilifeform: mega-example
mircea_popescu: or for that matter, see warsaw jews.
asciilifeform: same idea
mircea_popescu: maybe part of why they got fucking exterminated like cows was that they LIVED LIKE FUCKING COWS ?????
mircea_popescu: who knows ; who could have predicted ; etc.
asciilifeform: cows would take offense
mircea_popescu: i dunnop that there existed anything more offensive than the jewish ghetto of eastern europe cca 1920.
mircea_popescu: and that was a rather direct result of "freedom to experiment".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41975 @ 0.00048227 = 20.2433 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: afaik this was not a case of 'freedom to experiment' but of imprisonment
mircea_popescu: what the fuck do you think freedom is.
mircea_popescu: where's that great song
mircea_popescu: ;;google and my dirty red bandanna
gribble: Me And Bobby McGee by Janis Joplin Songfacts: <http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=485>; Took my harpoon out of my dirty red bandana – Me and Bobby ...: <http://genius.com/1538822/Kris-kristofferson-me-and-bobby-mcgee/Took-my-harpoon-out-of-my-dirty-red-bandana>; I pulled my harpoon out of my dirty red bandana / I was playing soft ...: <http://genius.com/1028438/Janis- (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: aha. check it out, sometimes it hits.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59381 @ 0.00048673 = 28.9025 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: the way i see it, in present-day usa you have the choice of buying plastic toilet with rusty nails instead of a seat, or iridium toilet.
asciilifeform: all i'd like is the option of ordinary porcelain.
asciilifeform: like 50yrs ago.
asciilifeform: because iridium is pricey and i'd like to use the money to buy turkeys.
asciilifeform: i've spoken to enough old folks in usa, dug through enough archives, old advertisements, to know what people earned and what they paid for a roof over their head.
asciilifeform: in various times.
mircea_popescu: tis not so simple yo.
mircea_popescu: the people in those various times were supported by earnest empire.
mircea_popescu: loo kwhat the chinese coolie earned in singapore in the same times.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44419 @ 0.00048251 = 21.4326 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Gmail Para Tu Negocio Ahora podés verte más profesional con un e-mail personalizado."
mircea_popescu: the irony being that they exactly got it : these fucktards actually believe gonzalez@gmail.com is "moar professional".
mircea_popescu: just like bums drag around broken iphones. they might not work, but fuck, he's practically like almost one step removed from actual humanity. those great fabulous half-god creatures that actually use iphones and actually have professions.
mircea_popescu: what's an argentine to do ?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the smarter kids fort, http://41.media.tumblr.com/2acd27e393e94288e05c0482302669c6/tumblr_nuohzcEyOi1ttqu7ro1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1jjukUC )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133571 @ 0.00048707 = 65.0584 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: over here, they have working iphones.
mircea_popescu: sure.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82465 @ 0.00048737 = 40.191 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00048764 = 5.4616 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13481 @ 0.00048338 = 6.5164 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47800 @ 0.0004793 = 22.9105 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65949 @ 0.00047929 = 31.6087 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38751 @ 0.00047521 = 18.4149 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6793
assbot: Bump minrelaytxfee default by laanwj · Pull Request #6793 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1K3lP4Q )
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/nI0jE
assbot: 800lb Steven Assanti is caught on camera harassing a nurse | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1MqUAHJ )
mircea_popescu: ustardian so far lost in this "telling your own story" pipe dream, can't even tell a story anymore.
mircea_popescu: where's the "and then i harassed some nurses" chapter in the man's own rendering of his saga ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140350 @ 0.00047475 = 66.6312 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: Seriously
BingoBoingo: What they don't tell people about the pipe dream is what really goes through the pipe
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes keep the blog posts acomin' please !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/10/10_supplys-down-demands-up-better-get-the-state-involved.html << particularly more like this
assbot: Supply's down, demand's up, better get the state involved! ... ( http://bit.ly/1MqVSCH )
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296402 << calling them 'patients' gives me the creeps for some reason. maybe it's because i just read 'one flew over the cuckoo's nest' and have lobotomising mental hospitals on my mind.. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 20:07:23; asciilifeform: intimidation of chumps, as in 'lie detector', will take care of two thirds of the 'patients'
pete_dushenski: still haven't seen the movie with nicholson et al. but it's supposed to be a decent flick, if not the most accurate of transpositions ☟︎
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296418 << this identification issue is quite the hot button item in canadian federal politics atm, mostly surrounding the use of the niqab by new immigrants during citizenship swearing-in ceremonies. ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 20:09:50; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: fingerprints were 'debunked' in the 1900s
pete_dushenski: the commie pretty much hung himself last week in saying that he'd defend niqabists. the incumbent conservative told the pakis to pack their bags, essentially affirming that this is a christian country with christian values
pete_dushenski: i should say, 'one of the commies', there are two main commie parties in canada : 'new democratic party' and 'liberal party'
phf: pete_dushenski: i don't know how successful kesey was at capturing the mind of a schizophrenic, but he certainly was good at relaying an inner state of an acid head. the movie is something else entirely, but still great, since it's basically jack nicholson playing his only role at his best. ☟︎
pete_dushenski: but harper (conservative incumbent) is essentially correct, so no huge shock that he's increased his lead in polls. it's his to lose and he hasn't tripped up yet. not bad after a decade in power, really.
pete_dushenski: phf: kesey definitely sells the acid angle.
pete_dushenski: and i'll take your word for it on nicholson. strangely, i've only seen him in 'batman', 'anger management', and 'the departed', which were all when he was older. past his prime clearly.
pete_dushenski: i guess batman was 1989 but god help me if i can remember that movie
pete_dushenski: i was but a wee lad.
phf: it's my favorite batman :) there's a word in russian, kapustnik, which is basically a movie or a festival, where a bunch of strong and famous performers get together to ham it up for fun
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.00047405 = 13.6052 BTC [-] {3}
phf: i rewatched it recently, and it's one of those movies that's awesome when you're 12, and then you see just how bad it is, when you're past your 20s
pete_dushenski: phf: seems like the majority of woody allen movies fall into the 'kapstnik' camp ☟︎
pete_dushenski: kapustnik*
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296449 << hehe zinga. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 20:20:41; ben_vulpes: no, they won't do anything to anyone cheating emissions tests.
phf: oh that makes sense, i've never thought of his movies that way, but he'd obviously be familiar with the form, being konigsberg
pete_dushenski: aha
pete_dushenski had to look up 'konigsberg', found that it's both a baltic port city ~and~ woody allen's pre-filmstar surname
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74300 @ 0.0004763 = 35.3891 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296472 << this was the 'is it corn-free ?' article the other day. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 21:21:42; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> folks familiar with usg 'scientocracy' will laugh, but the fact is, the mind-reading box does not necessarily have to... work. to be put in use. << right right. cholesterol is bad for you except its good for you and salt is bad except its good and hey, as long as they got "science" what difference does it make that they're 100% consensused on opposite things every 30 years.
pete_dushenski: 99% science-free prosecution ! guaranteed or your money back !
phf: but anyway nicholson in his early carrier basically has only one character, there's the pure form of that character in one flew..., there's the scary version in the shining and there's the funny version in the witches of eastwick, if you watch these three movies you'll be basically experience the entire nicholson acting range :> ☟︎
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296491 << children too. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 21:48:18; kakobrekla: high expectations are problematic for any movie
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50000 @ 0.00047684 = 23.842 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296487 << bahaha of course all the derps in newspapers and whatever else won't shut up about 'the martian' and how it's 'so wonderful' and 'just as good as the book' that they obviously haven't read. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 21:42:49; phf: went to a movie theater to see The Martian. i only ever watch movies when in-wot recommend something enough, so i didn't realize how bad a movie can be, and this was one of the worst movies i've ever seen. snl "you can do anything" skit done with a straightface.. in space! but anyway, they've replaced all the regular rows, with reclining sits, and you can push the button for the sit to recline. i was
pete_dushenski: i had the same overhyped vibe from 'interstellar', which was pointedly atrocious.
pete_dushenski: maybe if you were completely unfamiliar with the scifi genre, such as it is (asimov, heinlein, clarke, etc.) then it might pass the sniff test. but good god did i find it offensively bad. just spoonfeeding the viewer like they were fresh out of the womb.
pete_dushenski: after 'interstellar', which i didn't even pay to see !, there's no way i'd see 'the martian', free or not.
pete_dushenski: that's MY 3 hours, goddamit. ☟︎
phf: same issue with the martian. a mix of obsessive askreddit style scientism with startrek handwaiving, lots of things explained through exposition dialogue, lots of feel good "america! nasa! feelings!". zero value as a movie. i mean, there's an underdog character who Figures It Out and then he can be a complete aspy to The Big Boss, because he's now recognized as an authority
pete_dushenski: ya sorta figured as much. if i wanted a propaganda movie i'd watch triumph des willens again.
pete_dushenski: but hey, showing hitler's 1935 classic wouldn't break box office records for the umpteenth billion time this year... or would it ?
phf: thing is, unless bad scifi movies, where you have plot, babes and action, this is clearly targeted at the new nerds. like agile consultants at web startups, who follow nasa twitter? ain't no way this nation ever getting to mars, is my conclusion from watching this movie.
phf: *unlike bad
pete_dushenski: the kind for whom a pilgrimage to mecca is visiting comic-con in california, yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 183297 @ 0.00047647 = 87.3355 BTC [-] {5}
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296628 << i loled ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 00:58:15; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'dlp' (mems array) with laser illumination. less than 1k usd when it was new. << un minimo respeto por el imbeciliator! argentina no es un pais pobre porque es rico en recursos umanos.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296671 << /me waves at new neighbour ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 01:11:38; asciilifeform: say, 'i want to live only with folks who graduated with science degrees before 2010'
pete_dushenski: though why you'd want to specifically live next to the idjits like me too stubborn not to drop out, i dunno
pete_dushenski: i think selecting for science/engineering drop-outs (2+ years, not 1 week) would be more fruitful. ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66562 @ 0.00047571 = 31.6642 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296688 << ok. we'll let philosophisers in too :P ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 01:15:03; mircea_popescu: only ppl with science degrees after 2010 ? my degree is fucking philosophy.
pete_dushenski: http://blogs.reuters.com/breakingviews/2015/10/09/the-devils-dictionary-of-post-crisis-finance/ << this is what passes for 'edgy' in fiat finance. grade : b-.
assbot: The Devil’s Dictionary of Post-Crisis Finance ... ( http://bit.ly/1LIZKzY )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133632 @ 0.00047737 = 63.7919 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39750 @ 0.00047398 = 18.8407 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41742 @ 0.00047517 = 19.8345 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: http://gomerblog.com/2014/12/em-physician/
assbot: 45yo EM Physician Reflects Back Upon 4.0 GPA in College While Manually Disimpacting Patient | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1G88c9z )
pete_dushenski: Next he was handed a chart to begin assessing his next patient for a chief complaint of “left eyebrow pain for 10 minutes”." << lolz.
pete_dushenski: the joys of being in a servile profession.
pete_dushenski: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/09/argentina-fake-weddings-falsa-boda << arhentina is, like, the saddest place on earth. seriously, world vision should do their next film shoot there.
assbot: I do ... not really: young Argentinians spurn real weddings for fake ones | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1G8aBRy )
pete_dushenski: "sham ceremonies offer unparalleled chances to meet new potential partners. “It’s easier to meet someone at a fake wedding,” says Boniface. “I’d walk up and introduce myself as a cousin of the groom, and the girls immediately fell into their role. It’s like a game everyone joins in.”" << no es un pais pobre, es un pais de jugadores ! ☟︎
pete_dushenski: coming to a norteamericano dance hall near you in 2025
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42600 @ 0.00047517 = 20.2422 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95756 @ 0.00047457 = 45.4429 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: lol https://medium.com/eidolon/why-is-stoicism-having-a-cultural-moment-5f0e9963d560
assbot: Why is Stoicism Having a Cultural Moment? — EIDOLON — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1NAVrr1 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45183 @ 0.00047856 = 21.6228 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: oh and they have an institute http://www.paideiainstitute.org/programs
assbot: The Paideia Institute ... ( http://bit.ly/1NAWmHM )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00047751 = 4.3453 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8600 @ 0.0004782 = 4.1125 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00047522 = 7.0333 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73550 @ 0.00047365 = 34.837 BTC [-] {4}
punkman: from fake wedding link: “It all started two years ago with a group of friends: we realized we hadn’t been to a wedding in a long time because hardly anybody is getting married anymore,” << and this was a problem that needed fixing????!!
punkman: "A typical “fake wedding” hosts about 600 or 700 paying guests" * $50 = $30k, say the venue charges $25 per head, that's a lot of pesos leftover
punkman: "Hired actors play the bride, groom and a surprise third party: a spurned lover or secret boyfriend who arrives “unexpectedly” – and with dramatic results."
punkman: I guess that's fun if you are into soaps
fluffypony: this sounds like a dumb version of those murder mystery dinners
punkman: I'd go if the theme was "rosemary's baby" or something
punkman: http://www.wsj.com/article_email/coming-soon-from-china-a-400-million-bonanza-for-u-s-startups-1444622462-lMyQjAxMTE1NTEwMjgxMjI2Wj
assbot: Coming Soon From China: A $400 Million Bonanza for U.S. Startups - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1MmMgV0 )
punkman: "[$400m] will be doled out slowly, however, says Mr. Ravikant, so as not to overwhelm the market. In the first year, AngelList will disperse about $20 million of the money, ramping up to $50 million a year in subsequent years." and "on a recent trip to China, two different limited partners each offered him $500 million, but “we’re limited in how much capital we can absorb,”"
punkman: I don't understand this ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55636 @ 0.00047354 = 26.3459 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53900 @ 0.00047342 = 25.5173 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78797 @ 0.00047338 = 37.3009 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00047522 = 2.8988 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77700 @ 0.00047754 = 37.1049 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49050 @ 0.00047754 = 23.4233 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42150 @ 0.00047338 = 19.953 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34650 @ 0.00047338 = 16.4026 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66200 @ 0.00047853 = 31.6787 BTC [+]
jurov: punkman imo the keyword is "burn rate"
punkman: jurov: but why did he turn down a billion from the chinese?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42900 @ 0.00047338 = 20.308 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [fr.anco.is] Les remittances en questions - http://fr.anco.is/2015/les-remittances-en-questions/
trinque: deedbot-: feeds
deedbot-: Feeds:
deedbot-: 1. http://trilema.com/feed/rss/
deedbot-: 2. http://qntra.net/feed/
deedbot-: 3. http://www.contravex.com/feed/rss
deedbot-: 4. http://nosuchlabs.com/rss
deedbot-: 5. https://bitbet.us/rss/betsbetsbig/
deedbot-: 6. http://explo.yt/feed/rss2
deedbot-: 7. http://fr.anco.is/feed/
deedbot-: 8. http://www.btcalpha.com/feed/
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296772 << for a movie it's alright, but not such a great transposition; the whole thing about "the combine" is omitted ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 04:06:28; pete_dushenski: still haven't seen the movie with nicholson et al. but it's supposed to be a decent flick, if not the most accurate of transpositions
trinque: ah there it is
trinque: deedbot-: feeds add http://cascadianhacker.com/index.xml
assbot: cascadian hacker ... ( http://bit.ly/1G4Aima )
deedbot-: http://cascadianhacker.com/index.xml added.
deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] just another day in sunny cascadia - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/05/26_just-another-day-in-sunny-cascadia.html
deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] adult breakfast-for-dinner - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/05/27_adult-breakfast-for-dinner.html
deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] a tour of bitcoind booting to its first thread - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/06/21_a-tour-of-bitcoind-booting-to-its-first-thread.html
deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] excising DNS lookups from bitcoind: asciilifeform's patches - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/06/21_excising-dns-lookups-from-bitcoind-asciilifeforms-patches.html
deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] Supply's down, demand's up, better get the state involved! - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/10/10_supplys-down-demands-up-better-get-the-state-involved.html
deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] dakota french toast, fried bananas and salad - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/10/11_dakota-french-toast-fried-bananas-and-salad.html
danielpbarron: I don't know about this "acting range" of nicholson, but Chinatown is a great film staring him
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 166123 @ 0.00047338 = 78.6393 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100500 @ 0.00047855 = 48.0943 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79230 @ 0.0004736 = 37.5233 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65200 @ 0.00047864 = 31.2073 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42079 @ 0.0004734 = 19.9202 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 194601 @ 0.00047321 = 92.0871 BTC [-] {5}
punkman: http://www.strategicvoting.ca/
assbot: Strategic Voting 2015 Canadian Federal Election | don’t make a statement, make a difference ... ( http://bit.ly/1K3XQ5y )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 137848 @ 0.00047921 = 66.0581 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00047848 = 14.2109 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00047848 = 14.9047 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu goes to check out ba log, types lol. is surprised nothing comes up. fixes to log. gets the log.
mircea_popescu: apparently my brain decided to cut to the chase, what "log", you're clearly going for the day's lols!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57600 @ 0.00047945 = 27.6163 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: punkman: they are aiming for certain burn rate extent. anything below *and above* it won't cut it
jurov: i learned that thanks to reptilia and his sauna conference :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00047956 = 7.0735 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 326250 @ 0.00048236 = 157.37 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: o you were there ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107488 @ 0.00048302 = 51.9189 BTC [+]
jurov: nooo, only read the fallout
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 176812 @ 0.00048338 = 85.4674 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: ah
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88908 @ 0.00048644 = 43.2484 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: ...
hdbuck: good day mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: hey
hdbuck: i’ve been researching mpex stocks, through btc-alpha mostly and mpex, but the informations seems divergent as per the divs distributed
jurov: yes, mircea himself has problems sometimes :)
hdbuck: why woudl the info on mpex says 132.98367617 BTC on 18-09-15//Per share: 26 satoshi. but the latest monthly statement says Profit : 274.20932881 BTC
hdbuck: maybe i missed something
mike_c: not all the shares are on mpex
mike_c: so not all the profit is distributed there as dividends
hdbuck: what is the ratio then?
mike_c: depends on the stock
thestringpuller: for mpex it's 1 bn - some_public_number here
thestringpuller: in terms of shares
thestringpuller: mpoe has 1 bn total shares
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00048689 = 2.8483 BTC [+]
hdbuck: ah i see, any chance you would update them on btc-alpha? also volumes would be appreciated.
mike_c: update what?
mike_c: for mpex it's 50/50.
hdbuck: ok
mike_c: what were you asking me to update on btcalpha?
thestringpuller: it's 50:50 already?
thestringpuller: the plan is almost complete...
hdbuck: the ratio of mpex shares that get divs
mike_c: they all get divs :)
mike_c: see, half of s.mpoe shares are on mpex, so dividends are paid there.
mike_c: the other half are *not* on mpex, and the dividends are paid elsewhere.
thestringpuller: i didn't realize 500 mn shares were public
thestringpuller: "public owned"
hdbuck: i see, so the other half being hold by mp right?
mike_c: they aren't. mircea has a mpex account too
thestringpuller: mike_c: guess I have to add up the shares sold by owner based on trilema
mike_c: the other half held by mp in case of mpex, yes
hdbuck: alright, thank you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118041 @ 0.00048716 = 57.5049 BTC [+] {3}
hdbuck: also, as i understand trading via irc allows mpex to be more resilient, woudltn it be nice tho to make a more user friendly website for, say more advertizing > traffic > trades > revenues ?
mike_c: that's what coinbr is for
mike_c: talk to jurov if you don't like the logo
hdbuck: yes, i just created an account there, but i mean, i’d personally argue it lacks some charts, no offense tho.
thestringpuller: hdbuck: that's why btcalpha mpex tools exists for atm?
thestringpuller: mike_c: put the best charts up there
hdbuck: thestringpuller yes sure, i understand, i’d still value some trade volumes to estimate the liquidity of the stocks there
mike_c: i could add volumes
mike_c: i'll add it to the todo list
hdbuck: thx ::)
hdbuck: anyway, been a long time since i lurked, i think you guys are quite outsmarting the corporatist wannabes, and i like the sorta outraging honesty approach. so thanks.
thestringpuller: hdbuck: didn't you contribute to qntra tho?
thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/author/hdbuck/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00048676 = 28.3294 BTC [-]
hdbuck: thestringpuller yes very humbly
hdbuck: and with the assistance of bingoboingo :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00048676 = 5.0623 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <hdbuck> maybe i missed something << only half the shares get actually traded.
mircea_popescu: see teh contracts.
hdbuck: mircea_popescu got it, ty, while im still at it, maybe you could enlighten me as therealbtf client.. how am i supposed to make it work?
mircea_popescu: well specifically what problem are you running into ?
hdbuck: well, im not even sure where to start with ^^
thestringpuller: rotor pretty much builds the static on anything...
mircea_popescu: you should probably start with the mailing list.
mircea_popescu: ;;google the real bitcoin foundation
gribble: The Bitcoin Foundation: <http://thebitcoin.foundation/>; The truth about the Bitcoin Foundation - General - Bitcoin Foundation: <http://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/1284-the-truth-about-the-bitcoin-foundation/>; Bitcoin Foundation News - CoinDesk: <http://www.coindesk.com/companies/bitcoin-foundation/>
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296777 << i thought that was in "as good as it gets". ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 04:12:18; phf: pete_dushenski: i don't know how successful kesey was at capturing the mind of a schizophrenic, but he certainly was good at relaying an inner state of an acid head. the movie is something else entirely, but still great, since it's basically jack nicholson playing his only role at his best.
mircea_popescu: tho he does a lot of these "actual old/wounded male interacting with fucktarded us women" things.
mircea_popescu: i forgot what the one is where he fucks a woman's twennysomething daughter and then ends up marring the woman.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17295 @ 0.00048815 = 8.4426 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296786 << minus the strong actors. what, b lister mia farrow ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 04:20:24; pete_dushenski: phf: seems like the majority of woody allen movies fall into the 'kapstnik' camp
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296797 << actually, you ever saw http://trilema.com/2015/young-frankenstein/#selection-31.40-35.15 ? ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 04:29:18; phf: but anyway nicholson in his early carrier basically has only one character, there's the pure form of that character in one flew..., there's the scary version in the shining and there's the funny version in the witches of eastwick, if you watch these three movies you'll be basically experience the entire nicholson acting range :>
assbot: Young Frankenstein on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lgx3ou )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296806 << nobody cancelled walking out ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 04:35:59; pete_dushenski: that's MY 3 hours, goddamit.
mircea_popescu has to date walked out on > 80% of performances in buenos aires, of all kinds.
mircea_popescu: and the ones where i stayed it was mostly because table and alcohol.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33100 @ 0.00048902 = 16.1866 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296819 << google did that for a decade. it worked. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 05:02:06; pete_dushenski: i think selecting for science/engineering drop-outs (2+ years, not 1 week) would be more fruitful.
mircea_popescu: for a decade.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296821 << that's not the problem, i don't need you to let me in. the problem is that you don't have the means to distinguish between one "humanities" and another humanities. that's the fucking problem. you can sort out a bad engineer in all of five minutes, just ask pointed questions. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 05:05:08; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296688 << ok. we'll let philosophisers in too :P
mircea_popescu: but do you let lacan in ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34900 @ 0.00048947 = 17.0825 BTC [+] {3}
deedbot-: [Trilema] So... is it a virus ? - http://trilema.com/2015/so-is-it-a-virus/ ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296834 << eh this is a thing in romania/eastern europe too. they do a summer festival over in the student quarter, let kids marry for a day. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 06:35:13; pete_dushenski: "sham ceremonies offer unparalleled chances to meet new potential partners. “It’s easier to meet someone at a fake wedding,” says Boniface. “I’d walk up and introduce myself as a cousin of the groom, and the girls immediately fell into their role. It’s like a game everyone joins in.”" << no es un pais pobre, es un pais de jugadores !
mircea_popescu: it's a european festival thing with ancient tradition, if you will.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296856 << china likes us start-up culture and its effects. "never interrupt enemy when making a mistake". traditionally you wouldn't have the gall to pointedly help him, either, but i think mr xi correctly inferred ustardian head too far up ass to even notice. ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 08:29:48; punkman: I don't understand this
mircea_popescu: "The power is traded for the fetish of power. That's not capitalism, it is madness, and apparently Davos and Randi think women especially will heart it. "
mircea_popescu: seems the two parties are finding an amiable solution. win-win as they say : china is more than happy to own the ground, and us is more than happy to continue pretending indefinitely.
mircea_popescu: this is practically rome conquering greece. tho im kinda curious to see if the us actually has in it anything OTHER than byzantium.
mircea_popescu: "The final piece of the puzzle is a bonkers fiscal environment driving capital misallocation on a scale that tiny shot-pulling brains simply cannot wrap themselves around. Take Adam, Bill, and Charlie: three young men who all attended Harvard together, and went into finance seperately."
mircea_popescu: me likes the way ben_vulpes's stylistics is distilling itself over time.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21810 @ 0.00048676 = 10.6162 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes how much DO tickets actually cost ?
mircea_popescu: (thing is amusingly reminescent of how various people keep asking me what i pay in rent and expect a number. as if that's how it fucking works, somehow.) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: so i started on that medium article, by the 2nd paragraph i was skimming, by the 8th or so i bailed. i guess not the demo.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00048676 = 14.7732 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "However, not all women are the target demo of Randi's lip synching, the CEO of General Dynamics is a woman, I think she has a higher security clearance than the entire Senate, and I know for a fact she builds alien spaceships, why not interview her about how she uses social media to promote her brand and make connections and break ceilings? Because there's no Like button for hard work or triple integrals, which is do
mircea_popescu: ubly interesting because calculus was invented to make hard work easier."
mircea_popescu: fucking ballas. he's like this crazy drug addled chick you knew when you were a teen and STILL catch up with occasionally because hot damn...
ben_vulpes: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how is rent not a scalar?
mircea_popescu: retail is for suckers.
mircea_popescu: " I'll grant that there is some level of bonding that occurs between women over baby pictures, worth exploring later, but not for men: men will only (and rarely) show photos of their children doing something, the activity is what represents the kid as kid and them as a parent. Showing a man a baby picture is equivalent to showing a woman a picture of his car. "A #baby is more important than a car, dontcha think?" Ye
mircea_popescu: s, but a picture of a baby isn't more important than a picture of a car. "Yeah, but--" I know. Logic is mean. "
mircea_popescu: lalala.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1297013 << now we know that mircea_popescu pays in vector. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 15:36:41; mircea_popescu: (thing is amusingly reminescent of how various people keep asking me what i pay in rent and expect a number. as if that's how it fucking works, somehow.)
ascii_field: (tensor?!)
mircea_popescu: haha. fingers in doorway is a tensor right ?
ascii_field: !s tenser, said the tensor
assbot: 1 results for 'tenser, said the tensor' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tenser%2C+said+the+tensor
phf: "how do i put it in the terms you understand? an apartment for $300 a month. -- whoa! how do i get that? -- sure, so 5 apartments in this building, 7 year contract, i'll give you a 25% discount, that'll be $94.5k. my secretary will give your secretary ach routing details."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16700 @ 0.00048676 = 8.1289 BTC [-]
ascii_field: i hear it's even cheaper if you inherit it...
mircea_popescu: or, as it more often the case "you know, i still owe you on that grain deal. if only you actually wanted any of the shit i have." "well actually i'm moving to argentina" "omfg yes. would you like an apartment ?"
mircea_popescu: now go, compute the cost of rent. as a scalar.
mircea_popescu: by the time you're done alf will have done his routing by hand.
ascii_field: just like computing stalin's rent.
mircea_popescu: that'd be more like imputing.
mircea_popescu: incidentallty, this is why "corruption" aka elite networks are both a needed as well as an efficient control on capitalism.
mircea_popescu: by making the mathematical approach to many pricing problems unfeasible, they prevent undesirable mechanization.
ascii_field: why (at least in this case) undesirable ?
mircea_popescu: unintentionally and approximately, by sheer accident, providing the effect of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296575 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 00:33:45; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296518 << yes!!
mircea_popescu: otherwise derps will go right on into the swamp of mechanised trust / resource allocation / doom on a stick.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: by this logic, mircea_popescu oughta love the soviet system
ascii_field: where nothing of any value or import was 'retail-mechanized'
mircea_popescu: i loved the soviet system except for the parts where it deeply misunderstood elite.
ascii_field: (want a set of tyres? have a good phriend)
mircea_popescu: a bunch of peasants are not it.
mircea_popescu: fuckin jeffersonian that "anticapitalist" utopia.
ascii_field: and here i thought mircea_popescu believed in 'who is in the elite seat, is the elite'
mircea_popescu: no qualms with that. and he who is in the driver seat is the driver. excuse me while i don't stick around with sweving cars.
mircea_popescu: also importantly, "by making the mathematical approach to many pricing problems unfeasible". MANY. not all. not "set of tyres" necessarily.
ascii_field: so why this, and not that?
mircea_popescu: why the pubkeys, not the files ?
mircea_popescu: BECAUSE WE SAY SO
mircea_popescu: a design decision is arbitrary by definition.
ascii_field: i'm prepared to explain re: the pubkeys, it is really very simple
mircea_popescu: why do i look at a woman's ass ? ask me that, go in the corner on knees on rice.
mircea_popescu: go for it.
ascii_field: because they are the root of the trust circuit
mircea_popescu: lmao.
mircea_popescu: you didn't like logic in school or something ?
ascii_field: hm?
mircea_popescu: "why are you looking at woman's ass ?" "because it is in the middle of my interest."
ascii_field: hey i took tautology 400
ascii_field: l0l
mircea_popescu: WHY is it the root! what the fuck is this, the game of calling things things ?
ascii_field: anyway prolly ought to have called it 'axiomatic'
ascii_field: as in, having the proper pubkeys makes everything else non-spoofable
ascii_field: but there is no mechanical means of establishing that you have them.
mircea_popescu: axiomatic is, by definition, arbitrary.
mircea_popescu: which is exactly what i said eh.
ascii_field: not entirely arbitrary
mircea_popescu: what's your problem with arbitrariety anyway.
ascii_field: some axioms give you euclid, others - timecube.
mircea_popescu: sure.
ascii_field: i only have a problem with timecube
ascii_field: not with euclid.
ascii_field: (and, by extension, with the notion that they are equivalent)
mircea_popescu: yeah yeah, i like dating but hate crazy bitches. sure.
mircea_popescu: and to some degree i can tell in advance.
mircea_popescu: but this is not a formal process, and so...
mircea_popescu: they ARE equivalent. a picture of a car IS equivalent to a picture of a slut even if a car and a slut are not equivalent. axioms are just that, axioms. arbitrary statements for no reason with no cause.
ascii_field: except 'no cause' is not correct.
mircea_popescu: in so being, they also become a descriptor of your worth as a being. there's no good reason to pick any set nor a good method to find out which to pick.
mircea_popescu: yes it is.
ascii_field: because we discard, or emplace, axioms, based on whether we get timecube or skyscraper.
mircea_popescu: except we have no idea.
mircea_popescu: if we did, we could mechanize it.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, i can make a summary statement of calculus that reads exactly like timecube for the first half. after which it starts falling into place.
mircea_popescu: heck, it's practically done already, newton raves madly for most of the lenght.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4285 @ 0.00048971 = 2.0984 BTC [+]
ascii_field: ;;later tell mats http://binaryguard.com/bgc/malware/2015/10/09/deobfuscating_shifu.html
assbot: Deobfuscating Shifu ... ( http://bit.ly/1WXs0AJ )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: ^ any to any other reversers or aspiring reversers.
ascii_field toils in this uranium mine. 'ask him anything' (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: " Is there a natural economic equilibrium price where, say, a U Chicago grad can do no economically productive work at all but still be paid to use Instagram? Let me be explicit: my question is not should we do this, my question is that since this is precisely what's happening already, is it sustainable? What is the cost? I don't have to run the numbers, someone already has: it's $150/mo for a college grads, i.e. t
mircea_popescu: he price of food stamps. Other correct responses would be $700/mo for "some high school" (SSI) or $1500/mo for "previous work experience" (unemployment). I would have accepted $2000/mo for "minorities" (jail) for partial credit."
ascii_field: 'Here's the other side's example: when they talk about raising taxes on the rich, why do they pick a "low" point and push it higher? Should the highest rates be at $250k/yr? $300k? Another way of doing it, which is precisely why they cannot do it, is start at the top and move down. "We need $1T. Ok, top five guys pay 90%. Not enough? How about top ten guys pay 90%. Not enough? Top...." I'm not advocating this or
ascii_field: any other policy, not my place, I am pointing out that doing it the way it's done protects the 1% by letting the Aspirational 14%-- who crave recognition and are easily identifiable and hatable because they are poseurs, just of a different kind-- act as human shields. They take the bullets, the unknown mega-rich take tinted window rides to the Hamptons.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11660 @ 0.00048971 = 5.71 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00048778 = 2.4389 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31652 @ 0.00048778 = 15.4392 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29012 @ 0.00048635 = 14.11 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25750 @ 0.00048465 = 12.4797 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28450 @ 0.00048755 = 13.8708 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !up AusteritySucks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00048752 = 7.7516 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31050 @ 0.00048752 = 15.1375 BTC [-]
jurov: ^^^ where are the quotations from?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: jurov: from tlp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5369 @ 0.00048762 = 2.618 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: jurov http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/11/hipsters_on_food_stamps_part_2.html ☟︎
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: Hipsters On Food Stamps, Part 2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1hAVW5Y )
mircea_popescu: if you meant the last one.
mircea_popescu: the others are from http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2014/01/randi_zuckerberg.html
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: Randi Zuckerberg Thinks We Should Untangle Our Wired Lives ... ( http://bit.ly/1IeLRBJ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6442 @ 0.00048931 = 3.1521 BTC [+]
jurov: thx
deedbot-: [Trilema] Baires - http://trilema.com/2015/baires/
mircea_popescu: "If this seems implausible to you, which it must-- that's exactly the point of it-- consider the following extreme analogy, which surprisingly will be easier to understand, which is also the whole point: Say your father raped you repeatedly for a decade. Hold on, slow down, it gets worse: now you're 40, and he shows up asking you for $2400 because, and I quote, "you have a responsibility to take care of me." There h
mircea_popescu: e is in your living room, eyeballing the nice things in your home. If it is a fact that you will inevitably give him the money, is it easier to for you to pair it with your venom or your sympathy? Though it's enraging, there is a perverse pleasure in giving that bastard the money. It tells you that you showed him that you are better than him."
mircea_popescu: to keep it up.
mircea_popescu: but for the record, this "perverse pleasure" is strictly a ustardian thing.
mircea_popescu: unknown to humans.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: that was one of the times when i thought 'wtf is this'
ascii_field: error: insufficient lsd
mircea_popescu: he has a point, tho. they actually DO this.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 4525 @ 0.00023879 = 1.0805 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: it's a fruit off the same bizarro tree of their sexuality.
ascii_field: would this be something like a 1-man version of human wave attack?
ascii_field: 'choke on my corpse!'
mircea_popescu: (to bother americans, play porn over dinner.)
mircea_popescu: amusingly, even the people who claim not to watch tv.
ascii_field: what would happen? cpu overheats from attempting gluttony and lust at same time ?
mircea_popescu: well they can't eat.
mircea_popescu: too busy pretending something or the other, as the case may be.
ascii_field: tlp's usa exists. but i am stuck reading about it in the fishwrap.
ascii_field: because i do not personally walk around in it.
ascii_field: usa != california!
ascii_field: not everyone is 'ironic hipster' or has ever seen one outside of pictures.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.0004897 = 7.7373 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: how's that related ?
ascii_field: this re: the 'busy pretending'
mircea_popescu: tbh i think his grasp of the fargo demographic is much better than his grasp of cali.
mircea_popescu: hahaha. no.
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1297118 <<< best thing I have read in over a week. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 19:53:09; mircea_popescu: jurov http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/11/hipsters_on_food_stamps_part_2.html
mircea_popescu: whole site's worth a read imo.
shinohai: I liked the writing style, I bookmarked for future reading thanx!
mircea_popescu: "You might think that the rage is the spark for a transformation of America, a full scale Dagny Taggart meltdown or Bolshevik revolution, depending on your hat. That's not how it works. If this is narcissism, then its purpose is protecting identity, defending against change. Doesn't matter what side you think you're on, unless you are unplugged you are for the status quo."
mircea_popescu: mmmmmyeah.
shinohai: http://coinjournal.net/streamium-developers-many-news-articles-about-argentina-and-bitcoin-are-totally-not-true/
assbot: Streamium : Articles About Argentina and Bitcoin aren't true ... ( http://bit.ly/1VOITvh )
shinohai: !up ascii_field
shinohai: mircea_popescu gets mentioned for a year-old article?
mircea_popescu: i do ?
mircea_popescu: too lazy to check, writing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00048954 = 4.308 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19253 @ 0.00048848 = 9.4047 BTC [-] {2}
shinohai: "It should be noted that Longtime Bitcoin Entrepreneur Mircea Popescu also shared his own account of Bitcoin adoption in Argentina roughly a year ago. His full teardown of the idea that Bitcoin is taking off in Argentina can be read on his blog."
shinohai: (Links to blog post)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21947 @ 0.00048707 = 10.6897 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: same site also hosts marvels like 'A New Block Size Increase BIP is Planned for the ‘Rough Consensus’ from Montreal' and 'The Josh Garza Interview: Organized Crime, Threats and Is He In America?'
shinohai: Never said we had Pulitzer-prize winning journalism here.
mircea_popescu: o hey.
mircea_popescu: who is this ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17950 @ 0.00048971 = 8.7903 BTC [+]
deedbot-: [Qntra] Trouble Hits Purse.io Customers - http://qntra.net/2015/10/trouble-hits-purse-io-customers/
BingoBoingo: In other news https://archive.is/ehmT7
assbot: The news wants to do a story on the $500 computer Bitcoin lock hack. Does anyone know anyone affected by this? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1G24DlG )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29574 @ 0.00048707 = 14.4046 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @ 0.00048971 = 18.9028 BTC [+] {2}
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] D3C3N7R4L1S3 4LL 7H3 7H1NGZ! Except for these ones. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/10/12/d3c3n7r4l1s3-4ll-7h3-7h1ngz-except-for-these-ones/
pete_dushenski: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2015/10/12/clojure-if-lisp-is-so-great-why-do-we-keep-needing-new-variants/ << i'll just leave this here. i expect the comments will prove entertaining for the lispers here
assbot: Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Clojure: If Lisp is so great, why do we keep needing new variants? ... ( http://bit.ly/1G28MpE )
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1297000 << o.O mp has representation on facebook. nuts. ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 14:57:39; deedbot-: [Trilema] So... is it a virus ? - http://trilema.com/2015/so-is-it-a-virus/
pete_dushenski: also, hanbot makes an excellent point that pi is widely know to at least 8 decimal places afaik
ascii_field: 15.
pete_dushenski: mostly because of 9-digit calculators (basic ones)
ascii_field: !s how i need a drink alcoholic of course
assbot: 1 results for 'how i need a drink alcoholic of course' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=how+i+need+a+drink+alcoholic+of+course
ascii_field: ^ 15.
ascii_field: (everyone with even a passing interest in mnemonics, at least in the english world, knows this one)
pete_dushenski: aha nifty
pete_dushenski: i'll be sure to teach this one at 'ben+pete's skool'
pete_dushenski: heya nubbins`
pete_dushenski: happy canuckian thanksgiving eh
pete_dushenski is currently shopping for 'quiet' mechanical keyboard and/or soundproof interior doors.
deedbot-: [Trilema] You already had what you think you want and can't get. - http://trilema.com/2015/you-already-had-what-you-think-you-want-and-cant-get/
pete_dushenski: not happy about this shopping adventure. but i guess i'm not as rich as i thought i was.
pete_dushenski: house isn't multiple hundreds of square metres on multiple floors.
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: line the door with acoustic cork.
ascii_field: will cost < 100 usd
pete_dushenski looks into this !
ascii_field: vendors which supply musical studios will have this.
pete_dushenski: ascii_field: you don't know how tickled this idea has me :)
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: you can get 19-inch racks lined with cork, with acoustic baffles for the exhaust (think auto muffler or pistol silencer)
ascii_field: all of this is commercial sop.
ascii_field: cheaper than new building.
nubbins`: hi
pete_dushenski: and less depressing than giving up model m for some 'das keyboard'
nubbins`: is it thanksgiving today?
nubbins`: i can't keep track. we had turkey yesterday
ascii_field: welcome back nubbins`
nubbins`: ty
nubbins`: busy times
BingoBoingo: http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_24965603/silicon-valley-sees-shortage-ev-charge-stations
assbot: Silicon Valley sees shortage of EV charge stations - San Jose Mercury News ... ( http://bit.ly/1G2aQ0X )
pete_dushenski: !up ascii_field
nubbins`: pete_dushenski voted yet?
pete_dushenski: lol right. like that's gonna happen.
nubbins`: XD
pete_dushenski: i'd sooner gamble on the outcome than show up to the booth
nubbins`: green party can't win without people like you
nubbins`: i hit up the advance polls
pete_dushenski: sounds like the green party needs me more than i need them
nubbins`: ah, yep, that's accurate
BingoBoingo: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24947237/too-many-electric-cars-not-enough-workplace-chargers
assbot: 'Charge rage': Too many electric cars, not enough workplace chargers - San Jose Mercury News ... ( http://bit.ly/1G2b9IY )
nubbins`: pete_dushenski: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mask-face-covering-voting-1.3266109
assbot: Mummers, potato sacks and clown masks: Why people are voting in silly face coverings - Politics - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1G2bhs9 )
nubbins`: mega-lel
nubbins`: smth tells me BingoBoingo would find humour in this also
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: i almost expect there to appear some idiot rob-peter-pay-paul scheme where plebes' petrol cars have to spin wheels on a treadmill to charge some eloi's 'tesla', in lieu of parking fee, or the like
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296773 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 04:09:35; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296418 << this identification issue is quite the hot button item in canadian federal politics atm, mostly surrounding the use of the niqab by new immigrants during citizenship swearing-in ceremonies.
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Not unimaginable
pete_dushenski: ascii_field: that's basically 'vw emissions test protocol'
BingoBoingo: "I needed to be somewhere by 6 p.m., and all of the active chargers were full. I couldn't plug in all day," he said. "There was a Volt that appeared to be finished charging, so I unplugged it so I could get a half-hour boost. The Volt isn't pure electric -- it also has a gasoline engine. The next day, I learned that the Volt owner was furious, and he sent out this email blast saying that I stole his charge. It was awful."
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: lulzy tho. never head of 'mummers' before.
ascii_field: it sounds batshit, to an engineer, say, but logically follows from 'easy to steal == phree!!!' formula.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Mummer is a kinda Mardi Gras thing
pete_dushenski: "Keefe had to leave his 'ugly stick' at the door. The homemade musical instrument is popular in mummer tradition. (Courtesy of Jon Keefe)" << nubbins`! you're famous !
deedbot-: [fr.anco.is] Why GPG subkeys must die - http://fr.anco.is/2015/why-gpg-subkeys-must-die/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19200 @ 0.00048583 = 9.3279 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: davout: "According to Schneier it costed ~$3mn in 2012 to find an arbitrary SHA1 collision." << cost ☟︎
mircea_popescu: ahh it;'s an email bonanza.
mircea_popescu: i mean blog posts
pete_dushenski: i think a fire's been lit
nubbins`: pete_dushenski inorite?
jurov: yes. and was the problem tackled that i'm apparently expected to have one key for next 40+ years?
nubbins`: the point that i shouldn't have to expose my body to some random gov employee in order to exercise my charter rights was lost on many
pete_dushenski: davout: also sha2 != sha256 ☟︎
pete_dushenski: jurov: why one key ? can't you make new key just before current one expires and sign old key over to new key ?
ascii_field: jurov: iirc there was a thread - http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=14-05-2015#1132369 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 21:32:19; mircea_popescu: if you can upgrade your key for free, you don't have to pay mpex, you can just find someone with a key they don't want to use anymore and they can "upgrade" theirs to yours.
mircea_popescu: jurov you're also expected to have the same penis for the next40+ years.
mircea_popescu: tackled that one ?
mircea_popescu: but yes, as alf describes, you can move them over.
jurov: yes, my penis looks substantially differently than 2y ago
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13515 @ 0.00048507 = 6.5557 BTC [-]
jurov: not usable for identification
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: aha. 'rights'
mircea_popescu: well not for identification, but still, suable for what it's used for.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4865 @ 0.0004843 = 2.3561 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: i suppose the elephant in the room sort of point we've been avoiding is this :
mircea_popescu: that given the known weaknesses of the pgp protocol as it is, the only responsible manner of using it is to include an index in every signed item, and to increment it by one every time you sign anything.
mircea_popescu: that actually allows repudiation.
ascii_field: how does this work ?
jurov: how is it different from expiry date?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field because if i say "no messages with index past 500 may be signed by this key" the key actually is verifdiably dead.
mircea_popescu: jurov because the date at which a message was signed is not verifiable.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: say enemy captures key. signs whatever he likes, with indices you've already used.
ascii_field: then points to your material, says 'this is fake'
mircea_popescu: they're both fake.
mircea_popescu: once a duplicate is found, the key is dead.
mircea_popescu: ie, you've fucked the goat.
ascii_field: only if found!
ascii_field: if he is sitting on your wire, and silently drops your message, replaced with his...
ascii_field: but yes, the basic scheme is one that i described before
mircea_popescu: myeah.
ascii_field: with 'scratch-off hashes'
mircea_popescu: anyway. an enemy sitting on your wire in possession of your key is no enemy at all. he's your wife, like it or not.
ascii_field: (does anyone have the link handy where i described this scheme ?)
jurov: regardless, keys will need to be deprecated and upgraded somehow
ascii_field: jurov: in this scheme, you can 'blow' a key when it is time, by churning through its remaining shots
mircea_popescu: jurov what's wrong with a deed saying "this is my new keyt" ?
ascii_field: (publishing garbage signed thereby, with the serial number incrementing)
jurov: that you are not accepting it
mircea_popescu: that, yes.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field not so sure how smart that is. garbage is interpretable. ☟︎
ascii_field: jurov, mircea_popescu: iirc mircea_popescu did not accept refreshed subkeys either
ascii_field: (at mpex)
ascii_field: because 1) he would have to send a shuttle to his orbital station to swap out the ROM with the old key 2) people could sell mpex accounts!!111111
nubbins`: the wisdom of buying a private key is left as an exercise to the reader
ascii_field: nubbins`: this was an ancient thread. mircea_popescu explained that if people could update keys of mpex account, it would become practical to sell 'secondhand'
mircea_popescu: anyway, it allows you to update it. the idea that others would accept your update on your own terms and for free is bizarre and i guess unwarranted. going forward i imagine moist everything will be financed through fees on key updates. such as say assbot.
nubbins`: nod
mircea_popescu: puts the cost of security right where it belongs : on the key owner.
nubbins`: added benefit of being L1, too
ascii_field: the flip side of this is that civil-death-by-dint-of-key-compromise will become a thing.
ascii_field: (already is a thing.)
mircea_popescu: otherwise you get a disaster of commons situation where 5k services are stuck doing things because you were bored one evening. that might work for a woman's book club\
mircea_popescu: \but i want no part of it.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1297290 << incidentally, this is the cue i've been waiting for to bring up an old observation of mine re: assbot and similar: ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 22:11:29; mircea_popescu: ascii_field not so sure how smart that is. garbage is interpretable.
ascii_field: it is a chosen-ciphertext attack vector.
ascii_field: as presently implemented.
mircea_popescu: how you figure ?
jurov: ^ wiki material here. but i don't have acct
ascii_field: (i.e., we ~think~ we are decrypting garbage, but who knows what it is. perhaps nsa killed kakobrekla and the next auth token is actually using the symmetric key header from your last transmission to the satellite !!)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field it includes a plaintext field for this reason.
ascii_field: rsa is malleable.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla is certainly smart.
mircea_popescu: it can be malleable, but look at a string.
jurov: btw, instead of sequence number i'd use hash of previous signature
ascii_field: the other thing, you are not decrypting the string !
ascii_field: you are decrypting a symmetric key
ascii_field: which is invisible
ascii_field: thinkaboutit
mircea_popescu: 22:36:14 pete_dushenski: !v assbot:pete_dushenski.rate.punkman.2:be692bd7a8864924c2526b0f2b72dd90baebc89bf10b131ff925358764b9be
mircea_popescu: the text is "assbot:pete_dushenski.rate.punkman.2:blabla"
ascii_field: the text.
mircea_popescu: jurov no, they have to be immutable.
ascii_field: but what you actually decrypted with rsa was a random blob
ascii_field: (aes key)
mircea_popescu: ok...
jurov: how chaining them by hash makes them mutable?
mircea_popescu: what, am i thick or something ?
jurov: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ok looks like i have to draw a picture ?
mircea_popescu: jurov well you wouldn't know in advance. maybe 3 is unreleased and you see 2 and 4
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i think so.
ascii_field: say hitler has killed poor kakobrekla. and really, really needs one of mircea_popescu's pgpgrams decrypted.
ascii_field: (from some captured email in the past)
jurov: mircea_popescu: when 4 will contain hash of 3 and 3 must contain hash of 2
jurov: then space for forgery diminishes dramatically
mircea_popescu: jurov but at the time you see 4, you do not see 3.
ascii_field: so he modifies assbot so that the next time mircea_popescu is given otp token, it is actually carrying the rsa-enciphered symmetric key from $message
mircea_popescu: !up Ett
jurov: you see hash of 3
mircea_popescu: ascii_field ok...
jurov: which will be own field and goes into the signature
mircea_popescu: jurov you don't have what to confront it with man.
jurov: thus, you have to create a collision to forge valid 3 later
mircea_popescu: but you can't verify it is good now!
mircea_popescu: forget later.
jurov: 4 will be in deedbot
mircea_popescu: how ?
jurov: at that time
mircea_popescu: deedbot magically knows it's ok ?
mircea_popescu: how do you accept 4 without 3!
pete_dushenski off for a jog then more turkey. so much more turkey.
jurov: you want *all* singed matter to be public in that order?
jurov: *signed
mircea_popescu: no, but if the number reads "4" you don't need to be shown the deed with number 3 to know 4 is a valid number.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i still dun get what the problem is.
jurov: okay, then there can be both serial number and previous hash
mircea_popescu: i guess.
mircea_popescu: kinda why the issuie is an elephant in room : we (i) dun really wanna go into it because it's such a bitch to manage and creeping featuritis 5 ways to sunday
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the basic problem is that you are decrypting $blob and, so long as the output has the expected form (and how many of us check? yes, i check. but there are folks who will pipe it straight into their irc via shellatron. yes, you know who you are
ascii_field: )
mircea_popescu: i do not imagine anyone seriously pipes it in.
ascii_field: so long as it has expected form, it is send out.
mircea_popescu: but yes, automated security and suicide share a flavour.
mircea_popescu: can you demonstrate rsa malleability in the sense of, appending "pete_dushenski.rate.punkman.2:" as prefix to cyphertext ?
ascii_field: no need.
ascii_field: all that would be required is (yes, open problem) a particular kind of aes boojum.
mircea_popescu: getting rid of aes gets rid of this anyway.
mircea_popescu: iirc i have a "why you don't want to chain hashes" thing somewhere.
ascii_field: bbl
mircea_popescu: !up GoonClooney
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00048908 = 3.2768 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24150 @ 0.00048928 = 11.8161 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15123 @ 0.0004843 = 7.3241 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11002 @ 0.00048394 = 5.3243 BTC [-] {3}
punkman: btw if you don't want the signatures on your subkeys being sha1, I think --cert-digest-algo is the option that needs changing ☟︎
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33600 @ 0.00048391 = 16.2594 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27750 @ 0.00048629 = 13.4945 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23558 @ 0.00048904 = 11.5208 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, anyone familiar with the life of this 2010 rapunzel, carrie perjean ?
mircea_popescu: miss california / miss usa aspirant, asked by that slime perez hilton what she thinks of same sex marriages, didn't have the presence of mind to tell the old fag to stuff it with the bullying, as this is about hot young women not about wrinkly old poofs nobody would fuck with a loaned goat penis,
mircea_popescu: after which litigation, sex tapes, and finally married an ex nfl quarterback.
mircea_popescu: should be a fucking movie already.
mircea_popescu: !up longgone
mircea_popescu: funny how many people discover they really got nothing to say once the gate is there.
nubbins`: heh
nubbins`: "If I was in their shoes, I'd..." ...suck just like they do
mircea_popescu: mmmyeah.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3850 @ 0.000489 = 1.8827 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up Peter_Geschel
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 no reason not to publish the thing now.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.00048391 = 10.5734 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1297376 << this does absolutely nothing about the subkey signatures OR the fingerprints ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-10-2015 22:51:13; punkman: btw if you don't want the signatures on your subkeys being sha1, I think --cert-digest-algo is the option that needs changing
asciilifeform: both are hardcoded to use sha1.
asciilifeform: rfc2440/4880 make NO provision for changing it. ever.
punkman: I don't see any mention of sha1 in the rfc regarding subkey sigs etc
asciilifeform: the fp is a sha1
asciilifeform: and it gets signed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27988 @ 0.00048429 = 13.5543 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6057 @ 0.0004859 = 2.9431 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.000489 = 10.9536 BTC [+]
punkman: well I'm more worried about subkey shenanigans than someone finding a collision for my fingerprint
asciilifeform: punkman: didja miss the nyooz item where the collision approached the cheap-as-dirt point ?
mircea_popescu: "subkey shenanigans" are EXACTLY what "someone finding a collision for your fp" means.
mircea_popescu: what's this ?!
mircea_popescu: what do you think subkeys are ?
mircea_popescu: it's not like the distinction is in any way meaningful. it's pure bullshit, which is one of the major reasons the pgp "standard" is so borken. there's no actual enforcing of the notions it then purports to expose to the verbal world.
asciilifeform: a treatise re: all of the (identifiable!) ways in which the rfc is retarded, would exceed the rfc in length, manyfold
mircea_popescu: myeah