assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2500 @ 0.00013062 = 0.3266 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48002102 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 110 @ 0.00436006 = 0.4796 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.0009937 = 11.0798 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: "I found myself conversing with a young criminal lawyer who will soon be marrying into the same family that I did last summer. I think this makes us laws-in-laws."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49896855 = 0.9979 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00445 = 0.178 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 24 @ 0.00739988 = 0.1776 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4810062 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 36 @ 0.00445694 = 0.1604 BTC [+]
dexX7: i heard many bad things about arrival, tsa and such but i didn't expect it to be that bad
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.49628404 = 3.9703 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00099425 = 18.2942 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.49999948 = 10 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00454263 = 0.477 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.4995 = 0.999 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: well, i had the romanian customs scratching my passport with his fingernails for like 10 minutes, asking all sorts of questions.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35793 @ 0.00099105 = 35.4727 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 38 @ 0.47857315 = 18.1858 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 35 @ 0.007 = 0.245 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0295 = 0.118 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4899989 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.49697762 = 1.9879 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol mike looks like he's in trouble in that 1st one
mircea_popescu: actually he looks like he's in trouble throughout. poor him
kakobrekla: apparently i managed not to get doxxed this time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00099425 = 4.6233 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 19 @ 0.006988 = 0.1328 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.07608533 = 0.1522 BTC [+]
cgcardona_: asciilifeform: epic pics. wish I was there.
cgcardona_: i can only imagine. hopefully next year
cgcardona_: ;;rate asciilifeform 1 #bitcoin-assets regular and posted pics of the 2014 conf
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.
gribble: Nick 'asciilifeform', with hostmask 'asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-71-191-246-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net', is identified as user 'asciilifeform', with GPG key id B98228A001ABFFC7, key fingerprint 17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7, and bitcoin address None
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user davout has been recorded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5582 @ 0.00099254 = 5.5404 BTC [-]
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.
joecool: nice though, first prototypes?
joecool: mircea_popescu: would be a funny caption for it :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00099254 = 6.7493 BTC [-]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 500.49, Best ask: 501.99, Bid-ask spread: 1.50000, Last trade: 501.99, 24 hour volume: 7222.12107105, 24 hour low: 490.0, 24 hour high: 515.0, 24 hour vwap: 500.068946591
moiety: ;; later tell BingoBoingo nope not moi but it is a manul! had to go look, i'm never there anymore
assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
moiety: do you even need the up with the ` bit?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14523 @ 0.00099375 = 14.4322 BTC [+] {2}
benkay`: something's hosed with freenode and my nick.
cgcardona_: in the spirit of benkay - PGP keys or GTFO </joke>
joecool: benkay`: /nickserv release benkay yourpassword
benkay`: cgcardona_: the difference between us is that my friends in this channel can identify me without my needing to auth. kinda crazy, neh?
benkay`: joecool: i did that earlier today, released, /nick'd myself, and then set it to autokick again.
moiety: how has everyone been?
benkay`: the landed gentry have been galivanting about romania playing with custom electronics and being generally glamorous
moiety: that place looks really nice! i havent seen these pictures, I saw the trilema ones. everyone looks so cute!
moiety: i've been surviving lol im fine. why did you go to the conf benkay?
benkay`: not i, not this year. i took some gents with whom i work up to the mountain for 4 days of drinking and talking about what the ever loving fuck we want to do for the next 3-7 years.
moiety: did you come to any conclusions?
moiety: i saw kako took a good pic too
benkay`: now it's my job to get us from a where we are to b where we'd like to be which is building cool crap and making money at it
benkay`: but even before that, prototypes.
benkay`: which means banging atoms together. again. still. now.
benkay`: perhaps you love the atoms, and perhaps once i did as well, but i tired of the ever-present threat of digit removal.
moiety: i will have this fear to if i ever get to meet a manul
benkay`: har those pretty deadly things
benkay`: i was so excited to get my first motoman up 20
benkay`: then i nearly took my own head off with it
assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
moiety: loli like typing !up i kinda wish it was !up [user] good boy!
benkay`: anyways. at the close of that gig i made a rule for myself that i would no longer sit at the controls of machines that could maim or kill me.
moiety: did you see that wee hexapod robot that can roll around in any direction?
moiety: im just looking at motoman
benkay`: motoman's just a bog-standard dumb dumb robot mfgr.
benkay`: the up-20 (universal payload, I imagine...) was an impressive device. rated at max for 20Kg, and could swing a payload of that size around at lethal speeds.
benkay`: give or take a moment of inertia or three.
ozbot: MorpHex, the incredible hexapod robot - YouTube
moiety: motoman looks entirely more useful
moiety: motoman looks vicious in action too
benkay`: interesting clockwork contraption.
benkay`: servos tend to be that way.
benkay`: anyways, coming projects have to do with floaty things not moving lots of metal around in production lines so the risk is probably bounded to burning my hands (only things that've been paying my meagre wages since time immemorial).
moiety: this thing scares the life out of me, its really fast
moiety: what kind of floaty things?
benkay`: remainder is left as an exercise to the reader.
benkay`: good talkin' to ya, moiety.
moiety: i didnt know what they were, i see now
moiety: later benkay, good to see you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22409 @ 0.00099181 = 22.2255 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.49989099 = 9.9978 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.49999714 = 3.5 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.0045 = 0.189 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1343 @ 0.000079 = 0.1061 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00099493 = 23.9778 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.5 = 5.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00099036 = 3.4663 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2100 @ 0.0009918 = 2.0828 BTC [+]
assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
benkay`: "Last year, the government of the Republic of Cyprus imposed the equivalent of a tax on bank deposits, only to see the tax contribute to, rather than reverse, the island’s economic struggles."
benkay`: would someone please explain precisely what contributions to struggle the Cypress bail in caused to me?
bitcoinpete: Piketty: “there is no natural, spontaneous process to prevent destabilizing, inegalitarian forces from prevailing permanently.” <<destabilizing permanently is super contradictory
bitcoinpete: "The three decades between 1950 and 1980 were truly unusual; the constellation of economic and demographic variables that produced prosperity during that period will probably not be re-created anytime soon." <<pretty much
bitcoinpete: And I know MP caught my article earlier today, so for the rest of you:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00099036 = 4.4566 BTC [-]
ozbot: Consumerism: The Great Equalizer – The Legacy of the French Revolution | When Bitcoin Met Pete
bitcoinpete: ;;later tell mircea_popescu you make a good point about the last line. as students of history, we ain't forgettin' shit. i'm tempted to re-write it but then your comment wouldn't make any sense. it did feel a bit off as i wrote it...
assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
ozbot: "Riders On The Storm:" A Fictional Letter Explaining What Is Going On In Russia | Zero Hedge
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.0009893 = 23.3475 BTC [-] {3}
bitcoinpete: More Piketty: "The simple fact is that large wealth taxes do not mesh well with the norms and practices required by a successful and prosperous capitalist democracy. It is hard to find well-functioning societies based on anything other than strong legal, political, and institutional respect and support for their most successful citizens."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51299 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.50000001 = 1.5 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1052 @ 0.0001344 = 0.1414 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 212 @ 0.0046469 = 0.9851 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 943 @ 0.00013444 = 0.1268 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.044879 = 0.1346 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 25 @ 0.51360264 = 12.8401 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.51687744 = 2.0675 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5254 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.0048197 = 0.241 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3549 @ 0.0009907 = 3.516 BTC [+]
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: the amounts in that article are staggering
moiety: o.o i didn't know thats where Josh spawned from
fluffypony: asciilifeform: that Cardano prototype is REALLY pretty!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 101 @ 0.00478 = 0.4828 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15833 @ 0.00098833 = 15.6482 BTC [-]
fluffypony: "Takes poker. It’s a game which is also an adult activity due to the money involved." <- broke my brain
fluffypony: probably just slipped through the cracks
fluffypony: I've bought a couple of things on CryptoThrift, not blown away by the site but it seems to be a lot better than BitMit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00098833 = 20.8043 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00098833 = 7.5607 BTC [-]
HeySteve: I was a seller there, it's unfortunate there's no way to migrate feedback from shuttered markets...
HeySteve: at the time, the only alternative was CoinGig
fluffypony: best way is to get buyers to rate you on the WoT as well
HeySteve: yeah but where and how is WoT hosted?
fluffypony: ;;later tell moiety did you get your free Denarius from CryptoWimmins yet?
fluffypony: HeySteve: you'd have to ask nanotube for details, but with the vested interest from all parties in the WoT it isn't going anywhere
HeySteve: sure, it's open source and the data is easily copied, so I guess it could be mirrored easily enough
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0659999 = 0.198 BTC [+] {3}
HeySteve: right, well I'd very much like to speak to nanotube in any case, in relation to my project
dexX7: do you know any legit website which allows to sign raw transactions after providing the rawtx + privkey? nothing fancy and the less overhead the better
fluffypony: dexX7: afaik blockchain.info has rawtx support
nanotube: dexX7: you don't want to provide privkeys to any website. :P use a local client.
dexX7: bci allows to push signed transactions but no signing
HeySteve: nanotube, may I have a word in private?
dexX7: that's the plan fluffypony. and i'm looking for a way to sign with a minimal setup. like a very simple website + js or similar
fluffypony: dexX7: are you looking to automate it or do it manually?
dexX7: actually i'm writing a tutorial for
ozbot: Redeem multisig txs
fluffypony: ok so then can't you use blockchain.info to push it once it's signed?
dexX7: signing via bitcoind is simple but i'd like to cover more ways
dexX7: pushing via bci works of cource but the tx needs to be signed first
dexX7: something like
http://brainwallet.org/#tx where you only need to input an unsigned tx + privkey (unfortunally this does not work with brainwallet.org for whatever reason)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00098866 = 3.5592 BTC [+] {2}
dignork: dexX7: don't want to beat a dead horse, but puting anythin + privkey into browser is a bad idea, unless for some reason you run it on an oflline machine
dignork: s/oflline/offline hate mornings
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 108 @ 0.00450101 = 0.4861 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 65 @ 0.00450018 = 0.2925 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50851001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 215 @ 0.00449994 = 0.9675 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 23 @ 0.0045 = 0.1035 BTC [+]
ozbot: Keith Saltojanes: WTF Is Bitcoin - YouTube
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52538 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00098833 = 12.6506 BTC [-]
jurov: <davout> ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR <<< lol I'm not aware TAT took over coinbr :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00098994 = 31.8761 BTC [+] {3}
fluffypony: "This page scientifically designed to annoy web hipsters. Donate now to stop the Comic Sans and Blink Tags"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6678 @ 0.00099122 = 6.6194 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: If you hate comic sans so much why even have it installed?
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: please point to the part of the sentence where I said I hate it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 53 @ 0.00403551 = 0.2139 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.00431648 = 0.1338 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 23 @ 0.50132825 = 11.5305 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 15 @ 0.029 = 0.435 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00099175 = 31.9344 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: lol so gigaom is promoting coindesk ? oh how very surprising.
assbot: Voicing rabite for 30 minutes.
assbot: Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.
HeySteve: however, that value was estimated in one of the linked stories I believe
HeySteve: involving the NFL star's ponzi scheme
mircea_popescu: i mean i guess the idea is that bitcoiners are so fucking rich and clueless that they have no idea what's what, so they may throw 100k btc on something worth 1% of that.
mircea_popescu: HeySteve i tell you i dun see it. i estimate it to be worth in the 90-190 btc range. now what ?
HeySteve: well, I don't expect it will sell for bitcoin, more likely for USD if they get their price (which may be lower than their asking)
HeySteve: well it's worth what people will pay for it I guess.
HeySteve: heh I don't know enough about fine art to want to take that bet
HeySteve: I'm just reporting what the seller's agent told me
HeySteve: still, anything above 12 million would make it the most expensive thing offered for btc to my knowledge
mircea_popescu: HeySteve don't get me wrong, i'm not laying into you personally or anything
HeySteve: sure thing, I think many people will have questions at that price especially considering the piece's history
fluffypony: I started a blog that I'm aiming to update extremely sporadically and only when I particularly feel like it
HeySteve: fluffypony I get a server not found error in FF
fluffypony: HeySteve: oh new CNAME, may not have propogated yet
fluffypony: although it is multicast so I dunno, ZA DNS providers are just slow and stupid
HeySteve: given the stability of my connection, I'd say it's confirmed they are
HeySteve: yeah fluffypony, although problem could also be on telkom side
HeySteve: mircea_popescu I found another of his oil paintings going for nearly $10 mil
fluffypony: HeySteve: when the wind blows or it rains our connection goes down, welcome to Africa
ozbot: Art auction result for artist Paul Gauguin. Free art prices
HeySteve: fluffypony, yep had a lightning strike and it's been erratic ever since.
HeySteve: phone call interrupts connection but only rings once, etc. very tedious.
fluffypony: we had that, and it turned out that our splitter thingy was bust, Telkom tech just replaced it
mircea_popescu: great somalian film. in it there's a scene where old woman can't talk on cellphone
mircea_popescu: sends daughter to water the pole (ie, pour a bucket of water at base on old wooden pole, no cables there or anything)
mircea_popescu: film also has interspersed scenes of a hog eating a trabant
HeySteve: fluffypony, don't think it's the splitter, got a new one. think water is getting in the line somehow
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: wife is East German, so I've learnt about a lot of that stuff, especially from her grandparents
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 31 @ 0.00699967 = 0.217 BTC [+] {2}
fluffypony: her grandfather (maternal) was a professor of economics, incredibly gifted man, who is now suffering from dementia
fluffypony: it's quite sad because he'll have these flashes when we've been talking about Bitcoin where he'll understand everything and comment with incredible depth
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00024999 = 0.125 BTC [+]
fluffypony: and then five seconds later forget how to eat properly
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.519998 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "We would also let you know that a letter is also attached to your package. However, we cannot quote its content to you via E-mail for privacy reasons. We understand that the content of your package itself is a Bank Draft worth $800,000.00 USD; in FedEx we do not ship money in CASH or in CHEQUE but in Bank Drafts only."
cazalla: my opa died last year, his dementia dragged on for about 5 years
assbot: Voicing Rick__ for 30 minutes.
cazalla: seems young, my opa was 94
gribble: arij was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 5 days, 17 hours, 10 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <arij> pLambert, yes, pm me
cazalla: according to 23andme, it's my highest risk disease too
cazalla: i don't tbh as i'm still relatively young and by the time i'm old, perhaps there will be a cure
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 60 @ 0.00179766 = 0.1079 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00099382 = 6.3108 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.0118 = 0.1062 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0655 = 0.1965 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14074 @ 0.00098819 = 13.9078 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: so there's this romanian rap band, bug mafia. it exists since the 90s, it was one of the first in the sense someone in bitcoin since 2010 is "one of the first". they're to this day the best by a very very fat margin.
mircea_popescu: then one day i use one of their lines as a title for a post, and i get the #1 spot by morning.
fluffypony: yeah but wouldn't your competition be lyrics sites?
mircea_popescu: they have their own official site and everything. problem is, they don't have much english support on the web, being.. you know, a romanian language band.
mircea_popescu: this would be the definition of racism : 10 units of e + 1 unit of r is more than 0e + 100 r.
fluffypony: I wonder if your post would show up first for Romanian language results
mircea_popescu: problem is [most] everyone in romania uses english google
Naphex: mircea_popescu: BUG Mafia, you repping mircea?:p
fluffypony: quite unlike the Germans who won't use it if it's not in German
mircea_popescu: because w/e, romanians were liek teh first on the internet.
Naphex: always tought you a Parazitii man
mircea_popescu: Naphex i actually like them both. which i guess is somewhat rare.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony as far as romanians are concerned, the 90s were spent going "da-i romaneasca ?" ie, does it suck ?
Naphex: had my own party this weekend, chilling and doing nothing at all :)
mircea_popescu: some peeps' first encounter of the proper european lunch, where you spend a few good hours with your food.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 924 @ 0.000135 = 0.1247 BTC [+]
fluffypony: it should almost blend into supper time, so you top it off towards the evening without needing to eat an entire other meal
mircea_popescu: a btw, to bother everyone : local isp just unveiled its easter surprise w/e.
mircea_popescu: you can get it symmetric, but it's not really useful or needed for most end users.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: in oradea Tesari/RDS has Fiberlink 1G/s at 59RON
mircea_popescu: AND they will layer it for you. you can get 1tbps both ways in this country, and it won't break your bank.
fluffypony looks at his 4mbps connection currently syncing at 2.4mbps
mircea_popescu: fluffypony yeah. ppl are liek... "how come romania?!?!" and i'm like... dude, how long you got ?
Naphex: it started here, with TVS (The TV network)
mircea_popescu: actually upc arguably started as astral, which you know... got started by the father of a chick i was doing back in hs
bounce: it doesn't really make sense to throttle the uplink on glass, though. it's likely just throttled gigabit.
Naphex: is there no RDS in TM?:)
bounce: good for the gamer kids though, "low ping"
mircea_popescu: see, for instance, the whole town is full of fiber spools hanging from poles
mircea_popescu: because rather than buy the cutter they just don't cut it.
bounce: like you're ever going to take it out and put it somewhere else. even so, throttling the uplink doesn't really buy you much of anything, hardware wise
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00098533 = 7.8826 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: romania could, on the basis of end user installed gateways, nuke the rest of hte planet off the internet
mircea_popescu: just imagine you have something like 10mn customers doing 1gbit uplink each
bounce: depends on how the transit agreements work. some places actually liked generating more bandwidth "the other way", as it pushed the balance a bit more towards evening out
mircea_popescu: so basically, if they actually allowed the uplink they'd have to have a filtering datacenter.
mircea_popescu: (and even if it isn't, i'm pretty sure that's their rationale)
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bitcoinpete you're #10 on a google search for "bitcoin pete". while your twitter acct is #1.
mircea_popescu: google is racist : it will push profiles in twitter BUT NOT facebook. it will push wikipedia articles.
mircea_popescu: basically it has a shortlist of websites that it gives preferential treatment to.
Naphex: they have been doing that for ages
Naphex: twinking PageRank for domains
Naphex: that that product split with Google Now / Google
Naphex: then they merged together in the current version, which will always have preferential PageRank
mircea_popescu: Naphex but see, that's the snag : they used to do it as a per-domain page rank thing.
mircea_popescu: and simply replaced with a handwritten list, either our friends or everyone else.
Naphex: yep you get filtered down and placed in a bubble
mircea_popescu: not i, not this year. i took some gents with whom i work up to the mountain for 4 days of drinking and talking about what the ever loving fuck we want to do for the next 3-7 years. << so you had brosex.
mircea_popescu: "Bringing Cryptocurrency To Women Worldwide, CryptoMoms.com Launches" ahaha how fucktarded can you get.
mircea_popescu: HeySteve: I was a seller there, it's unfortunate there's no way to migrate feedback from shuttered markets... << which is why wot.
mircea_popescu: dexX7: bci allows to push signed transactions but no signing << there's a reason for this. you shoulodn't be providing privkeys.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yeah that's exactly what I said
fluffypony: although tbh I don't know why sites like that and BTCJam etc. don't just integrate with the WoT
fluffypony: instead of reinventing the wheel (and doing so badly)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 58 @ 0.00743106 = 0.431 BTC [+] {2}
HeySteve: mircea_popescu, quite so. I spoke to nanotube about integrating WoT with a cryptocurrency
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 24 @ 0.00750003 = 0.18 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: HeySteve i don't follow ? the wot is integrated with any cryptocurrency as it is. i can and have rated people for say... atc deals.
HeySteve: sure, but putting the identity and associated ratings into a blockchain
HeySteve: been working on this for a while
mircea_popescu: fluffypony and in the case of btcjam, because they know they're running a scam platform. it'd make no sense to take any steps that make this more obvious than it actually is.
mircea_popescu: HeySteve so like a sort of a db backup maintained distributedly ?
mircea_popescu: i know nanotube was working on a wot 2.0 that'd be distributed and not depend on him
mircea_popescu: seeing how he's all old and frail and will eventually go.
HeySteve: and associating costs with establishing an identity and rating people may improve the system slightly
HeySteve: I have a further idea to incentivise non-scammy behaviour too
HeySteve: <+mircea_popescu> incentives do not belong in the wot.
mircea_popescu: because the wot is the measure of how people respond to incentives, it makes no sense to change its neutrality to add incentives for particular responses.
HeySteve: ah. well as I see it, bad behaviour leads to negative rep which makes future trades less likely and the inverse is true. that's how I use the term incentives.
HeySteve: right, but my idea is to augment that
mircea_popescu: let me make this point clearer through an example. suppose i go to a village in somalia. this village has 100 people and they're all normal people, they do good and bad things by w/e definition of good and bad.
mircea_popescu: i own more money than the entire village is worth, a million times over.
mircea_popescu: so i say to these people : each day you only do good deeds, you will receive your average yearly income. but for every bad deed you do, you get fined x% of that.
mircea_popescu: now, this obviously will make everyone do nothing but good deeds (presuming rational actors),
mircea_popescu: but it will also make it impossible for women to pick mates.
mircea_popescu: because... well... what the fuck, everyone's doing good deeds whether they're good men or not.
mircea_popescu: and so through incentivising good behaviour i managed to... break the wot.
mircea_popescu: and now you also understand why western aid ruins africa.
fluffypony: incentivised ratings also opens the incentives themselves to Sybil attacks, no?
fluffypony: all I need to do is create a number of fake actors and claim they only did good deeds today (each fake actor supporting the other) and I receive average yearly income * the number of fake actors I've created
HeySteve: sure, but in the WoT there is no cost to create sockpuppets
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 50 @ 0.52420746 = 26.2104 BTC [+] {11}
HeySteve: right, to register an identity within this system there would be a BTC cost
mircea_popescu: HeySteve this counterintuitively makes your system weaker.
mircea_popescu: because the cost is not a discouragement to the sybil, if it has a way to turn a profit
HeySteve: fluffypony I have studied that article in some depth
mircea_popescu: and so through adding a cost you're actually skewing it towards scammers.
HeySteve: well, I want to make the signup cost vastly more expensive than the cost of earning rep through good behaviour
fluffypony: so then you're chasing away legitimate users
fluffypony: I won't pay to use the system when there's a perfectly good free one I'm already on :-P
HeySteve: heh well, I hope we can satisfy such concerns and build something useful
HeySteve: appreciate discussing it with people who understand the WoT in depth
mircea_popescu: HeySteve understand tho : this is not quite unlike solid state physics, or radioastronomy.
mircea_popescu: i can respect your desire to build a better process for refining hahnium, or for resolving doppler aberrations in telescopy.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, these are not tasks of the same nature as mowing the lawn.
Naphex: while we're talking incetives, any opinion on a good referral system for bitcoin exchange users?
fluffypony: Naphex: what do you mean? like an affiliate-style system?
mircea_popescu: that's actually one major thing to do. yo fluffypony what did you do for a living ? or cazalla ?
Naphex: some customers keep asking for one
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: one of the directors of a small group of companies, of which OpenRigs is a part
Naphex: more like just rewarding users for inviting other users
mircea_popescu: someone with 10 years as an aff manager has to make fucking bitcoin clickbank
mircea_popescu: affiliate advertising is going to be major in this space, and currently it's way the fuck nowhere.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52898999 BTC [+]
Naphex: well i was just thinking, rewarding inviters with 0.0001 upon each withdrawal by an invitee
Naphex: some incentive there o.o
fluffypony: Naphex: I've seen some REALLY good affiliate systems that do very small lifetime rewards
fluffypony: eg. for every referred customer you get 2% of their fees forever
Naphex: along the lines where i was thinking:P
fluffypony: small enough that the guy referring one or two customers won't care
Naphex: but we run 0% comission soooo :)
fluffypony: Naphex: so your fees are withdrawal only, no trade fees?
Naphex: no trade fees, some fees at withdrawal fiats, and 0.0001 at BTC withdrawal
Naphex: fees for fiat withdrawal are basic bank fees
fluffypony: are you priming the system to attract an audience before raising fees, or are you just very altruistic company?
Naphex: fluffypony: we are raising fees at some point
fluffypony: Naphex: it's going to be tough to incentivise affiliates without that, rock and a hard place scenario
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 265 @ 0.00084295 = 0.2234 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: HeySteve it applies to the problem of putting a cost on the user.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony the romanian expression is "suntem pe investitii"
HeySteve: well, in terms of WoT there is a time cost to registration with gribble
mircea_popescu: to translate this, some history : romania was a communist country. to get it on a capitalist system, anyone not fucktarded enough was simply given money, from the state.
mircea_popescu: if you had any sort of a clue and could talk the talk of business, you just got money.
mircea_popescu: exactly the way i handle btc, incidentally. just don't sound like the lumpens and you'll be okay.
mircea_popescu: this resulted in all the moral hazard you might expect, but also into the most fiscally stable country in europe, and with stores of physical gold per capita well above everyone else
mircea_popescu: one of the edge cases of that moral hazard were idiot "business men" who thought they actually have a clue, but in fact were products of a fortunate environment like that.
mircea_popescu: their investments fared about as well as neobee's, a few degrees of magnitude larger.
mircea_popescu: one of the best examples is a fellow known as varanul, ie dan voiculescu
☟︎ mircea_popescu: this schmuck was given something to the tune of a few bn usd, and ten years later he had to have a very embarassing 100mn sent to him in the middle of the electoral campaign,
mircea_popescu: think about it, you give a schmuck 1bn and legal immunity, you'd fucking expect he can pay you 100mn a year for the rest of all eternity.
mircea_popescu: and hence, the "suntem pe investitii" expression, which is what said idiots said about their media "empires", for 3-4 years
mircea_popescu: then suddenly they ran out of money, the bottom fell out of the market, and the 20-30k or so idiots who really thought there can exist such a thing as a "career in media" upon the basis of which they could like... take bank loans and buy houses and cars
mircea_popescu: discovered they have to suck my cock for a soup each day they wish to eat a soup.
fluffypony: sounds like that 17 year old "CEO" from the other day
mircea_popescu: not so far off. one of the schmucks made petrom, which is exactly copied after bp
dexX7: <mircea_popescu> someone with 10 years as an aff manager has to make fucking bitcoin clickbank < what is a clickbank?
Naphex: which got sold off tooo OMV in early 2006
fluffypony: dexX7: affiliate marketplace, basically
mircea_popescu: Naphex check that shit out, they evenb have the entire coin* bit* issue going
mircea_popescu: im confusing rompetrol and petrom like i'd confuse bitfuck and fuckcoin
dexX7: oh i assumed you made this word up
Naphex: i never read blogs, or cared much about them
Naphex: where are you pulling this guys out of O.o
mircea_popescu: you see, i had an intel department for years before i found bitcoin
mircea_popescu: overnight success is the result of fortunate coincidences like that.
assbot: Voicing hansi001 for 30 minutes.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: running intel on what?:p
mircea_popescu: <HeySteve> well, in terms of WoT there is a time cost to registration with gribble << more like an intellectual cost. this is good, because idiots don't manage to figure out how to do it, which serves us and them.
mircea_popescu: replacing that with a financial cost only works if you live in a functioning market economy,
mircea_popescu: which is an economy in which the government accounts for 1% or less of the gdp
assbot: Voicing awrelll for 30 minutes.
HeySteve: I hear what you're saying about the IQ barrier of GPG. we don't aim to replace that, only add to it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00098645 = 12.8239 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: awrelll mircea_popescu> aha. so tell me about your aff manager experience. << this was for you.
davout: Naphex: i was a little disappointed to not see you in timisoara
Naphex: davout: i would've come but it was all out of VIP tickets
Naphex: its only a 1.30 -> 2h drive to there
awrelll: salut, nu am inteles foarte clar ce anume cauti, eram interesat de o colaborare in caz ca sunt potrivit
davout: next year might be quite a longer drive :-)
mircea_popescu: cool. so. tell me about your experience as an affiliate manager.
Naphex: bit of a stage fright there i figure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4462 @ 0.00098645 = 4.4015 BTC [+]
awrelll: i am not sure if i qualify, i wanted to know more about this, sorry if i am wasting your time
mircea_popescu: well basically the idea is i need someone with significant experience.
mircea_popescu: jesus they voice everyone in here these days. ThickAsThieves when did you get out!
ThickAsThieves: just woke up after catching up on personal life and sleep
ThickAsThieves: <+fluffypony> ThickAsThieves: home safe? /// i think the airport gifted me a cold
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0659989 = 0.132 BTC [+]
Naphex: so how'd you guys enjoy Romania?:)
davout: Naphex: Romania is very nice
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06434114 = 0.193 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [-]
Naphex: did mircea take you out to see the vampires and cheeky girls ?:)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.52 = 1.04 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.52 = 1.04 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6374 @ 0.00098529 = 6.2802 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.52892571 = 3.7025 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate davout 3 bitcoin-central, puts the french back in the fries
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user davout has been recorded.
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate kakobrekla 3 pumps the #bitcoin-assets blood, bitbet
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate asciilifeform 3 makes stuff for No Such lAbs, intellectual and storyteller
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.
davout: asciilifeform: did they accept you as their new leader?
davout: asciilifeform: it's not the size, it's the smell that counts :D
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate mircea_popescu 3 MPEx and other businesses, a most reliable voice of reason
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 1 to 3.
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate mike_c 3 Making cool stuff yet to be seen by the masses, ATC supporter
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: i just wonder if large scale gmo will also yield some mutant hay fevers
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.52979 = 5.2979 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Voicing rammy2k2 for 30 minutes.
davout: "a nerdier man would have brought home air samples." <<< lmao
mircea_popescu: course you need a pretty large air sample to get anything usable at the ppb range
davout: mircea_popescu: the air sample thing kinda contradicts the discussion about how some stuff could be developed to work only in certain places, maybe that's the case for allergies too
davout: asciilifeform: just be pragmatic, move to romania, there's this beagles pack that patiently awaits its master's return
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate jurov 3 CoinBr, Coinroll, helped me transfer shares at times, kept me safe during a Bitfunder scare
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 1 to 3.
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gribble had a glitch so it went offline so it lost auth sessions
rammy2k2: well, i've been working in adult industry for some years, affiliates , dunno if it applies on what u need, but i was curious :)
Naphex: rammy2k2: you run bitcoin-romania.ro forum? right same rammy?
Naphex: get SSL working in that :)
gribble: You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user jurov has been recorded.
rammy2k2: mircea_popescu: streamate, money tree, chaturbate
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.
rammy2k2: mircea_popescu: i quitted adult like 1 year ago, since i got seriously into this disease called crypto
mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 when you started adult is more interesting. who were you on gfy ?
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 3.
rammy2k2: had some troubles with zombaio, but who didnt ? :))
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0659989 = 0.132 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 to be clear, were you working as an affiliate manager for any of these programs you mentioned, or simply used them as an affiliate ?
rammy2k2: Naphex: are u on my forum ? :)
rammy2k2: in what area u need stuff to be done ?
mircea_popescu: in the area where someone with 10 years' experience being an aff manager, and whom i can verify worked with programs i know and delivered results, is looking to start a biz.
mircea_popescu: you're not that guy, you're some guy that joined gfy in 2011.
rammy2k2: mircea_popescu: yea, i guess i aint :)
rammy2k2: ill idle around here if thats ok , i have a feeling we can have some nice chats
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought you were just gonna check if they're ovulating
Naphex: hey so who was running bitcoincharts?
gribble: You rated user tcatm on Tue Feb 28 12:40:39 2012, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: bitcoincharts fellow, sold me adspace..
ozbot: Scent of a Man | DiscoverMagazine.com
davout: ;;rate tcatm 1 bitcoincharts, been around a while
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user tcatm has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: i know right ? i can taste it on them if we're compatible too
mircea_popescu: speaking of "Testing everything", my fav robotzi episode of all time :
ozbot: RObotzi.S03.Ep13.Sugstanta - YouTube
ozbot: Sniffer mice have a nose for explosives - tech - 03 February 2011 - New Scientist
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform those migs not anymore, because they've been gutted for parts.
ThickAsThieves: Vault of Satoshi now allows real-time auditing it seems
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves bitbet model ? published addresses, you can traverse chain at your leisure ?
Naphex: i think they just published their cold wallet
fluffypony: Naphex: yep, no hot wallet details "for sekuritee"
mircea_popescu: o hey look at that, sorta dott. HeySteve is it released ?
mircea_popescu: Naphex so basically what is it, an address with a sum that signed a message ?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yep for quite a while, great game
HeySteve: yep, I think I finished that one
fluffypony: played the iPad one for hours figuring stuff ou
Naphex: mircea_popescu: they just made public their cold wallet, so people can check they have the funds
Naphex: that it as far as i know
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves bitbet model ? published addresses, you can traverse chain at your leisure ? /// You can verify cold wallet and your own personal balance. You cannot verify hot wallet though ("security reasons").
Naphex: yeah, don't think they signed it yet
Naphex: people can check what balance 'their' cold-wallet has, rawr rawr, everybody's auditing
ThickAsThieves: trouble is you can only see this if you have an account
mircea_popescu: it's almost as if thery go to a dedicated university to be stupid, these people.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27350 @ 0.00098446 = 26.925 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: this has to be the result of training, methodically making the wrong choice on every turn is not something that can be explained by simple randomness
ThickAsThieves: it works out okay if youre marketing to stupid people though
mircea_popescu: well sure. marketing to people who went to the same school as you did always works well.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform vault of satoshi is unrelated to that guy afaik
davout: fluffypony: yeah, that's just a clever way to present the data
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.0644536 = 0.2578 BTC [-]
davout: apparently some french guy that was smart enough to move to china
mircea_popescu: so can i just copy the html page saying success, much coin excess ?
davout: mircea_popescu: still beats the "specification is useless because code" approach
mircea_popescu: so i get 50 btc from 100 users. i spend 4925 of these 5k btc
ozbot: Proof of Liabilities tools
mircea_popescu: each user sees "success! site is solvent! 25 btc extra"
jurov: ThickAsThieves yes wao is wao
davout: it's spelled "compootah"
fluffypony: I would've complained about the stack size
mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at the other side of mean : "Problem 4 : Permeating all the foregoing and sufficiently so to become a problem in its own right is the incredible arrogance of the recently liberated corporate slavebois working as independent coders. Seriously, start working on the BTC securities trade system of the future without ever having worked for MPEx, without having humbly presented your inept ideas to the most gra
mircea_popescu: ndiose master Mircea Popescu (ie, me), without anything like that ? O, why, because you’re a special little trainflake of brilliance and genius who can ? Really ?
fluffypony: which seems great in theory, but as mircea_popescu pointed out it's easy to fake
mircea_popescu: "I THOUGHT I WAS SMART. TURNS OUT I WAS JUST ANOTHER LITERATE IGNORAMUS"
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves ok, you wanna talk about getting under my skin ? this shit gets under my skin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's not a fair test. i own my cock, but it's also too big to wiggle.
mircea_popescu: "honey! i gotta pee! get honey and honey, let's get moving on this!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so far. from what i hear from older people however...
davout: mircea_popescu: lazyness would command to get a chamber pot instead
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0009871 = 21.4201 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that'd be a good study. i'm also curious.
ozbot: The sound of a princess... on the toilet | CNN Travel
Naphex: oh man, the tehnology nowadays, and i used to just turn on the water
mircea_popescu: aren't these gizmos like required by the classification board ?
jurov: i tried that switch but did not recognize any sound
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate wao 2 Spreads bitcoin awareness, works with jurov (Coinroll, etc), friendly dood
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user wao has been recorded.
fluffypony: the three Rs - Reading, Riting, and Rithmetic
ThickAsThieves: "GitHub co-founder resigns after investigation into harassment claims"
ozbot: Google is researching ways to make encryption easier to use in Gmail | VentureBeat | Security | by H
jurov: google's unto embrace extern extinguish?
mircea_popescu: dude srsly ? cofounders split up over that horvath nitwit ?!
Naphex: didn't google launch gmail just too show ads on your mail context?
Naphex: what ads will run for encrypted emails? ;o
fluffypony: Naphex: they still know what you're searching
mircea_popescu: Naphex no, gmail was because yahoo sucked and they did mail.
ThickAsThieves: google just wants you to enter their cage for the most part
mircea_popescu: many shepherds in backwards places (like romania) still use yahoo mail
fluffypony: although that'll be interesting - how will gmail search work if your mail is encrypted?
mircea_popescu: it's just encrypted to stop the leaks wherein haxxors get the pm's email.
mircea_popescu: it's not encrypted to stop google reading it. it couldn't be
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00098778 = 3.3091 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: <asciilifeform> seriously, how much radiation damage someone would need, to swallow this crap // i like the way you put it
ThickAsThieves: the line is drawn at whether the encryption happens locally or on google servers, right?
Apocalyptic: even if it's done locally, you trust google to provide the right js script or whatever
jurov: ThickAsThieves: KMail + Kleopatra
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves why do i need to mix the channel and the security layer at all ?
mircea_popescu: this is exactly wrong. i do not need gmail involved in encryption any more than i need incentivised wot
fluffypony: Mailvelope does GPG in the browser (Chrome only, FF coming) for GMail
jurov: but nothing can open PGP/MIME stuff it produces
mircea_popescu: i just encrypt in gpg, everything the same way, and then paste the text in an email.
mircea_popescu: this works with all carriers, cause it's not their job to encrypt. their job is to carry.
jurov: so I just copy paste gpg encrypted clobs anyway
fluffypony: although probably 95% of my mails aren't encrypted or gpg signed because that would require educating all recipients on how to decrypt them
ThickAsThieves: it does seem a bit silly when you consider any mail client made for encryption essentially exists to remove the bother of copy-pasting
Apocalyptic: ThickAsThieves, there is no bother too great for security
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought that's where the us was headed with the garbage disposal things
ThickAsThieves: even the bathroom sink is more suited for male pissing than the toiley
assbot: Voicing chairman_meow for 30 minutes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00098778 = 8.1492 BTC [+]
chairman_meow: can anyone recommend an investment like just-dice?
chairman_meow: ThickAsThieves: i want to invest in gambling sites. I just don't want to put everything in just-dice
mircea_popescu: anyone recvalls that film where an aspiring actress ends up killing her baby ?
chairman_meow: ThickAsThieves: nothing that allows me to invest small amounts?
ThickAsThieves: but maybe read and learn about bitbet before worrying about how to buy it?
chairman_meow: everydice.com looks like what i'm looking for. kinda shady though
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0657999 = 0.329 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 5 @ 0.14 = 0.7 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.04300042 = 0.301 BTC [-] {3}
chairman_meow: hmm there doesnt seem to be something like just-dice
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves my contributions throughout my life have been nixing things and doing weird shit. in that order.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 2892 @ 0.0000694 = 0.2007 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00098375 = 11.1164 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: i was trying to point people to check out bitcoinpete's expose on maidsafe and they didnt approve my comment
ozbot: Why your fingerprints may not be unique - Telegraph
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.0657999 = 0.3948 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.03 = 0.75 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: "Vleisides' finances have been in question for the past several months," particularly because his residence "was recently purchased by BFL for approximately $400,000 in cash.
Duffer1: are monarchs shipping yet?
Duffer1: sounds like this guy is going to pass away in prison like his father
davout: chairman_meow: no, he read the logs
ThickAsThieves: well in this case, it happens to be the first question i eve rasked in bitcoin
Apocalyptic: "we do everything possible to make Lavaboom easy to use while keeping the service as secure as possible." HeySteve, you can't have it both ways
Apocalyptic: or you end up with a thing that is neither one nor the other
davout: ThickAsThieves: so serious :-)
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: surely the solution should be that all rolls are on a single address, no change addresses?
davout throws a branch of celery to ThickAsThieves to calm his anger
HeySteve: Apocalyptic, I'd encrypt myself for anything sensitive but this will improve things for people who can't do that
Duffer1: " PayPal global asset protection officer, told her that as of September 2013, PayPal froze BFL’s account containing $11 million and that PayPal received 6,000 complaints in total."
davout: HeySteve: there is no "person who can't do that", there are lazy people
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: yeah, so when the pot is big enough he can duck
HeySteve: right, well the more cycles wasted on lazy people using halfway solutions the better?
HeySteve: unsure why not, doesn't it increase costs for spies?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: so then what about a hot-wallet, lost roll amounts are sent to a cold-wallet, and the cold wallet is multi-sig, with a board of investors holding keys and the site operator holding keys. payouts happen once every 24 hours instead of immediately.
davout: fluffypony: running away with the pot/cheating -> different problemz
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 and then gigaom harps about how coindesk is relevant in bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, mp says he wants vehehes' head, mp gets vehehes' head. mp says he wants karpeles' head, mp gets karpeles' head
fluffypony: davout: and this is why I don't gamble
fluffypony: at least not in the traditional sense :-P
ThickAsThieves: you still must trust them to hold your coins and pay them out
ThickAsThieves: the difference with bitbet is that the interests are better-aligned
ThickAsThieves: so, it would go that you might be better off investing in owning a dice site privately, than being a public investor via shares or a shared pot
fluffypony: I think it goes back to a discussion I had with someone the other day - he was espousing the values of the Dogecoin community, and how nice everyone is, and they don't have "scams like Bitcoin has"
fluffypony: so I pointed out that lending a buddy 200k Dogecoin today is worth a whopping $120, but Dogecoin's market cap is tiny ($44 mil as opposed to $6.2 bil), and would he trust his buddy to not run with those coins if they were worth $17 000?
fluffypony: in other words, operators may start off with good intentions, but when they suddenly realise they're sitting on a large pot of gold, are they still trustworthy?
fluffypony: and unfortunately in the case of many an operator in the Bitcoin/cryptocurrency space they don't scale their control measures in line with the money they control
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17664 @ 0.00098778 = 17.4481 BTC [+]
fluffypony: Apocalyptic: hence my #bitcoin-dev question on accounts, I was wondering how "auditable"/visible they were publicly (the answer being not-at-all)
jurov: i think it was about bitcoin-qt accounts
jurov: electrum devs try to do accounts right, we'll see how it comes out
fluffypony: but I had this little brain-fart of an idea of using accounts mapped 1:1 to an address on an exchange (turns out my understanding of "accounts" was incorrect)
ozbot: Bitcoin was written by the retarded, part II pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: and in at #8 is the bitcoin foundation's annual letter lol
davout: jurov: ThomasV is working on accounts??
bitcoinpete: the twitter is 6x older than the blog. all in good time
ozbot: NEO & BEE: THE FULL PICTURE : Bitcoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00022471 = 0.1124 BTC [-]
bitcoinpete: Brewster: "Actually I thought we had 5,000, but I have checked the wallet and the coins are not there, I spent them somewhere but I don't remember on what.......we have only 140 coins left."
bitcoinpete: Andreas Antonopoulos posts on Reddit stating that “I was as surprised and bewildered by these events…dismayed that another bitcoin company had imploded amidst allegations of fraud and leaving many investors, creditors and employees with serious losses…all of whom betrayed by Danny” <<fuckin derp
mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete ask derpopopulos how come is it possible that danny brewster fucked everyone in the ass, when he never said things such as nigger or put down women for being retarded ?
mircea_popescu: maybe he should change his spiel from his current nonsense. apparently that doesn't help anything.
mircea_popescu: carefully selecting audiences for libertardism does not on the volume of data collected so far seem to produce better businesses.
bitcoinpete: lol i'll call into joe rogan's show tmrw and heckle derpopolous live
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly. we've all been sayin' hail marys over here like he prescribed, and we still got the clap.
mircea_popescu: tell him some investors have been very careful to follow his instructions and they still lost money. what's he going to do to make them whole ? apologize ? pay out of pocket ?
bitcoinpete: afaik andreas is fuckin broke and just scrapes by as a conference gypsy
fluffypony: am I the only person who hasn't seen him speak / heard him interviewed / watched him in a video?
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: maybe, you're out on some lulz
bitcoinpete: he's all about "the other 6 billion," promoting scammers, and 2.0 baloney
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: every time I see a video with him linked to on /r/bitcoin it just seems like a link to a TED talk, and I can't be bothered to watch TED talks
jborkl: The next day Brewster shocks the management team by telling them that the 5,000 BTC have…..overnight become only 140! "Actually I thought we had 5,000, but I have checked the wallet and the coins are not there, I spent them somewhere but I don't remember on what.......we have only 140 coins left. I am going to the UK to find investors. I will send you the 140 coins left and also sell my Mercedes
jborkl: and Bentley and will send you the money to pay the March salaries and the creditors".
jborkl: Jesus christ, what a fucking retard
ThickAsThieves: despite being hetero, i find him too unnattractive to look at
mircea_popescu: jborkl "5,000 BTC have…..overnight become only 140!" << there's some truth to that.
mircea_popescu: due to the complete lack of transparency, and seeing how all havelock/btct/bitfunder/glbse/etc offerings are destined to implode anyway
mircea_popescu: they can get away with the pretense that they raise a lot of money.
ozbot: Twitter / bitcoinpete: Hey @aantonop: Are you making ...
jborkl: I am going to sell my Mercedes and Bentley <-- what a asshole
bitcoinpete: not my harshest rebuke… don't feel like tearing assholes before breakfast
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: I see not everyone appreciated your maidsafe criticism
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: not everyone appreciates frank lloyd wright either, c'est la vie
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
jborkl: what is maidsafe anyway? keeps the maid from stealing your bitcoins?
fluffypony: "@bitcoinpete @maidsafe @MSCProtocol any points you make get lost in what feels like a trashy review of a summer movie. Be more constructive."
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: blame the education system lol
mircea_popescu: fluffypony lmao. when did some fucktarded bitcoin noncompany with no wot start looking down on trashy summer movies ?!
mircea_popescu: Your search - @bitcoinpete @maidsafe @MSCProtocol any points you make get lost in what feels like a ... - did not match any documents.
jborkl: then it should be madesafe right? I guess I don't get the pun
ozbot: Twitter / russellaugust: @bitcoinpete @maidsafe ...
ozbot: Twitter / russellaugust: @bitcoinpete @maidsafe ...
bitcoinpete: just had one of the guys in our meet-up group ask about maidsafe too. of course, a day after i blogged about it. just like he asked about bitgo a day after i blogged about that. noticing a pattern here
mircea_popescu: the bigger q here is who the fuck is that russel dood.
mircea_popescu: "Avid film and commercial editor, motion artist, and sometimes software developer." just sounds to me like unemployed young poor.
mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete the pattern being that peeps are trolling you or that peeps don't read your blog ?
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: very big q indeed. is being a "motion artist" like someone who takes jogs outside?
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: I believe "motion artists" practice an obscure form of yoga
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: not much for coke, got any wine?
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: probably one of the hot, sweaty kinds
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: TONS, take a trip to South Africa and stop by, I'll provide the alcohol
mircea_popescu: fluffypony i bet you it's just copied off the oscars. "the academy of motioning artistes"
mircea_popescu: at the time in newyork young hungry cocksuckers worked like taxi cabs : you'd motion to them and they'd get to work.
cgcardona_: top of the morning bitcoin-assets! cc/ fluffypony
jborkl: Ok, I read the website facts for Maidsafe and I feel dumb now. And if they are going to make a really bad pun they need a logo to go with it that makes you laugh
jborkl: .uncyc.org%252Fwiki%252FSeptember%3B150%3B151
ozbot: U.S. investment banker James Rickards says tie bitcoin to gold and avoid volatility
davout: jurov: thanks, i'll inquire about it
bitcoinpete: ThickAsThieves: that noose is also for professionalism
ThickAsThieves: maybe #b-a logo could be a sword of Damocles with a halo at the bottom
ozbot: Tea Firm Injects Buzz into Thai Stock Market With Porsche Giveaway - MoneyBeat - WSJ
ThickAsThieves: jurov:<davout> ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR <<< lol I'm not aware TAT took over coinbr :D /// Surprise!
davout: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 3.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user jurov has been recorded.
davout: ;;rate jurov 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 3 to 3.
davout: ;;rate jurov 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 3 to 3.
davout: weird, the message doesn't get picked up
jurov: what? i see gribbles replies
Blazedout419: [11:24am] <+gribble> Rating change | Old rating 3 | New rating: davout > 3 > jurov | this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
Blazedout419: [11:24am] <+gribble> Rating change | Old rating 3 | New rating: davout > 3 > jurov | this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
davout: okay, wasn't showing at first on bitcoin-otc
davout: ;;rate asciilifeform 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, very knowledgeable about engineering and beagles
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 3.
Blazedout419: you guys know gribble has a chan that echos all ratings right?
davout: might as well do a little update round
Blazedout419: only gribble is voiced...and only shows ratings as added
davout: Blazedout419: no as in "oh really? tell me more" :-)
davout: ;;rate kakobrekla 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also Bit4x
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user kakobrekla has changed from 1 to 3.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3053 @ 0.000135 = 0.4122 BTC [+]
davout: ;;rate mike_c 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mike_c has changed from 1 to 3.
davout: ;;rate ThomasV 3 electrum, met IRL a few times
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThomasV has changed from 3 to 3.
davout: Blazedout419: thank you !
davout: Blazedout419: learn something new every day!
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Blazedout419!~Rogue@76-243-42-60.lightspeed.cntmoh.sbcglobal.net . User Blazedout419, rated since Sat May 18 17:05:13 2013. Cumulative rating 258, from 119 total ratings. Received ratings: 119 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 124 positive, 3 negative. Details:
http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Blazedout419 jurov: looks like i should update my ratings too :)
gribble: Nick 'jurov', with hostmask 'jurov!~jurov@mx.coinbr.com', is not identified.
jurov: it was supposed to be used for email, too
jurov: after some bastions are erected and moats dug
assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3036 @ 0.00098881 = 3.002 BTC [+]
jurov: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:13ad09cbe0fc1cde274158d2b9e2d39594bb14c40d65609dcfa6224e
gribble: You are now authenticated for user jurov with key 677ABD62D0AEE7D7
jurov: ;;rate asciilifeform 3 NSA delivers; met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 3.
jurov: ;;rate davout 3 bitcoin-central; met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user davout has changed from 3 to 3.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.528 = 1.056 BTC [-]
jurov: ;;rate mike_c 3 <3 bitcoinalpha;we met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.
jurov: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 Biggest IDIFF investor, we met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.
davout: ;;rate mike_c 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also btcalpha <3
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mike_c has changed from 3 to 3.
davout: jurov: thanks for reminding me mike_c does btcalpha, luv it
jurov: ;;rate kakobrekla 4 runs several solid btc enterprises (bit4x,bitbet,panacea,...);we met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 4 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.
jurov: ;;rate mircea_popescu 6 has pet manticores;we met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 4 to 6.
ozbot: A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: in my humble opinion, this is the most important thing written on the topic in the history of human culture, neatly dwarving adam smith and so forth.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40373 @ 0.00098287 = 39.6814 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47728 @ 0.00098162 = 46.8508 BTC [-] {4}
ThickAsThieves: typo: marriage certificate. Were burning it today, all of it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.48246700 BTC to 6`890 shares, 36030 satoshi per share
ThickAsThieves: thinking out loud, if something is not a medium of exchange,
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52664 @ 0.00098641 = 51.9483 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2536 @ 0.00098837 = 2.5065 BTC [+]
jurov: ThickAsThieves: that's barter and does not involve any medium of exchange
davout: jurov: the distinction of barter vs. other forms of trade is imho quite artificial
ThickAsThieves: i always sorta viewed mediums of exchange as manifestations of time
davout: a medium of exchange is just another economic good, one that is particularly liquid though
ThickAsThieves: hmm, it's the only resource everyone has? how one "spends" their time may determine their "wealth" ...?
benkay: you're born long time and short housing...
ThickAsThieves: it is inconvenient to transfer time, so currency is used
mircea_popescu: so if it doesn't satisfy #2, it's not a medium of exchange
mircea_popescu: i mean you know, you can view planets as stars, as in the case of venus
mircea_popescu: what you prefer viewing things as tho is not a point of astronomy
ThickAsThieves: maybe rephrased, would it be preferred to require currency in a barter
mircea_popescu: the problem of natural persons vs legal persons is that natural persons have constraints legal persons do not.
mircea_popescu: a fair contest is a contest which does not distinguish between participants.
assbot: Voicing surfcap for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: fairness in this context may not be what you think when you say the word.
mircea_popescu: fairness is not a guarantee of equal resuts, even if you promise equal effort.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 750 @ 0.14 = 105 BTC
mircea_popescu: if the contest is running, and it dun matter who's running, he still has to do 100 meters, be it obama or goldstein,
mircea_popescu: and from unrelated news : "Nothing makes you more powerful inside the joint than a strong grounding in currency arbitrage."
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is the best thing you could possibly be doing with your time, not last on the list because even should it put you in prison, it will probably make you a ruler there, too.
mircea_popescu: a more absolute gift of power could scarcely be devised. "even in hell, they with this staff wield power" sort of thing.
dignork: mircea_popescu: person can win over corporate entity, think of kill contract for C-level staff
dignork: mircea_popescu: "mircea_popescu | this makes corporations win out in any fair contest."
mircea_popescu: i know what i said, what i don't follow is what you said.
ThickAsThieves: it always amazed me how much arbitrage opportunity existed on the play exchanges
dignork: mircea_popescu: just describing situation where person can win
mircea_popescu: if you shoot all the board of X corp, what of it ? they just hire new ones.
dignork: mircea_popescu: if the game was survavibility
mircea_popescu: a corporation is like a personified feud. it can even lay dormant.
ThickAsThieves: so mp, with this purified definition of economy, how do we apply it to current situations for benefit?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06476363 = 0.1295 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: well we apply it to understand what we do and do not understand better, and formalise both.
mircea_popescu: for instance, what does qc do ? does it attack the forum ?
mircea_popescu: and generally, it's a knife. it allows to cleave reality and the problems of reality into easier to manage bits.
mircea_popescu: say, the "problem" of x. well... how mcuh of it actually is economical ? that much should be resolved economically.
mircea_popescu: the rest is probably emotional ? or political ? or whatever the fuck else.
mircea_popescu: suddenly reality is actionable, which is what makes great science.
ThickAsThieves: altough you do already claim it is the first real economy
benkay: good grief it's like everyone disappeared for three days and then came back and pooped it all out on the logs
benkay: STAHP FOR LOVE OF CHRIST
ThickAsThieves: "It is important to bear in mind however that Bitcoin is merely a tool, that what we’re truly interested in is creating - for the first time in perhaps as long as two centuries - an actual, working economy"
mircea_popescu: yeah. the objection there is not so different from tlp's objection that medicalisation of welfare.
mircea_popescu: there's been a trend to economize welfare, and that just muddies up everything
mircea_popescu: not to mention the economization of politics, whereby politics are resisted or promoted on alleged economic grounds.
mircea_popescu: most of the debate dealing with strictly uneconomic matters.
benkay: and the economic matters rarely have data on which to base claims.
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if this could be applied to mmporg guilds, maybe your Rift guild is missing a punishment gazette
mircea_popescu: it kinda has it, very rudimentarily, as the kick log say.
benkay: the takeaway for me from the piketty stuff (if anyone cares) is that claims about how money flows are all hot air and lacking in data.
mircea_popescu: i CREATED IT because we have an open guild bank where anyone can take out a stack, but you're not supposed to take out the WHOLE stack of things you can use 1-2 of
mircea_popescu: so i put a note on a guy's "officer notesd" place that hey, you took all our x runes wtf
mircea_popescu: this theory is useful in design : how to make better mmorpgs.
mircea_popescu: anyway, a "gazette" is this ancient term of "where all the matters of record are published"
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves everything that moves has some economic part
fluffypony: yeah, the issue is with the "punishment" part, not the gazette part
ThickAsThieves: so maybe i reword to, any organized effort could benefit from a properly implemented economy
mircea_popescu: punishment is any action upon an agent that happens irrespective of the will of that agent
mircea_popescu: suppose pirate came back and went ;;rate ThickAsThieves 6 trusted guy helped me launder money
ThickAsThieves: no definition of punishment i know would include a positive rating
ThickAsThieves: whether you want to twist a positive rating into being a punishment seems to me, another thing
ThickAsThieves: you want your gazette to be impartial and permanent in and of itself
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well... so maybe the definition is broken you know ?
ThickAsThieves: says the guy who wants people to look up words and use them properly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00098314 = 10.2247 BTC [-]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 493.5, Best ask: 494.5, Bid-ask spread: 1.00000, Last trade: 493.5, 24 hour volume: 6797.65308914, 24 hour low: 489.77, 24 hour high: 504.9, 24 hour vwap: 496.41813442
assbot: Voicing VictorM for 30 minutes.
fluffypony: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 punishment for always being in #bitcoin-assets
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
fluffypony: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 punishment for always being in #bitcoin-assets
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: the trouble is that wot is a horrible name, as it's not OF TRUST in the obvious sense, but in the other one. and it'd seem to discuss the actual web, rather than its notation.
mircea_popescu: like the web is the set of websites, not the set of human knowledge
fluffypony: let's call it the Bitcoin Social Network instead :-P
mircea_popescu: the truth being that this shit's so bleedin' advanced ... we are without words.
ThickAsThieves: whatd they call those medievil books for documenting the deeds of kings, etc
mircea_popescu: i'm making urmom a better gazelle than the wot ever was, bish.
benkay: "no, are you in the wot?"
benkay: "i'm asking you what i'm in!?"
benkay: "let's try this again. does anyone in the wot know you?"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 150 @ 0.00135202 = 0.2028 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: ATT sends me email about some privacy shiz and says "To allow AT&T to use your CPNI, no further action is required. "
mircea_popescu: this would be fucking ideal, but unfortunately it'd yield fragmentation.
fluffypony: zooke triangle? google not giving me love
mircea_popescu: (and the fact good names aren't being squatted to fuck amazes me, and it is a testament to the fundamental economic ineptitude of geeks)
mircea_popescu: fluffypony a naming system can be secure, memorable and global
ThickAsThieves: it is the chronicle that needed to be auth'd, or the rater
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the chronicles didn't work that fucking well, either.
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: maybe the WoT should allow rating someone unknown based on their public GPG key, if it is known?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves lol i didn't click. i guess he's a slow reader.
benkay: mircea_popescu: what delta-t is it leveraging, though?
mircea_popescu: the problem here is that people interact with an entity calling itself at&t and using a non-gribble method of authing.
mircea_popescu: so now trust is created that's not wot-based. so in a sense old people are attacking the wot through being... stupid.
mircea_popescu: already good software is gpg based as a matter of course. so what if microsoft doesn't want to sign ?
ThickAsThieves: but basically att not being in the wor, makes them a scammer
benkay: (someone start a cell company!)
fluffypony: I see ICANN now forces you to verify your email if you list your actual contact details on your domain
fluffypony: at least, with the domains I registered today I had to
fluffypony: because email addresses are hard to create.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15421 @ 0.00098314 = 15.161 BTC [-]
benkay: did pLambert ever sort out the signature of that testament?
TomServo: signed with a weak key, last I saw.
benkay: was this the key that didn't match the wot key associated with the name?
gribble: (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
gribble: mrstickball was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 18 hours, 27 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <mrstickball> 107 PH.... nice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00098403 = 11.3655 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.5245 = 6.294 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: what's the trilema line about business being insulated from the public?
benkay: early bitcoin post, talking about the 30B MPEx fee.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00098082 = 17.9 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 20 @ 0.14 = 2.8 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21093 @ 0.00098456 = 20.7673 BTC [+]
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I'm so surprised, and I'm sure bitcoinpete will be too
fluffypony: he had such high hopes for the project
ozbot: Bitcoin Address 1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E
ThickAsThieves: to all, would you be interested in free Altcoin stickers? note that this would involve providing a mailing address to me or an intermediary
kakobrekla: see, i told you retards still have ze money.
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I'd love some, can I reimburse you for them?
ThickAsThieves: i could provide a tip address after the fact or such, but no payment would be required
ThickAsThieves: it's funny how maidsafe will no longer accept mastercoins, the very platform they chose
ThickAsThieves: DarkMarket is a decentralised P2P marketplace which cannot be shut down. It can be joined by anyone and in many respects it looks rather mature, with identity and reputation rankings, seller pages, multisig escrow, private messaging and privacy features.
ozbot: Airbitz & Libbitcoin Team Up to Create DarkMarket - YouTube
jborkl: mircea , got last block, time since last bloc and unconfirmed added also :)
ThickAsThieves: the context is more around calming people down when they get all angry about welfare exploiters and such
jborkl: *rename darkwallet bluewallet
assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.
only: mircea_popescu: not gonna fly, darkmarket?
jborkl: Darkmeet <- now that is a good pun
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06445866 = 0.1289 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: well according to the Popescu Theory of Economics, DarkMarket is missing at least a public forum
ThickAsThieves: after that i'd have questions about privacy over the system
mircea_popescu: anyway, i hope taaki doesn't end up sending intenret hitmen to kill me or something
ozbot: A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 33 @ 0.00757584 = 0.25 BTC [-] {4}
only: so decentralizing a marketplace is another shitty pipe dream?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06410013 = 0.1923 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: depends what your expectation/definition of decentralization is i suppose
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16644 @ 0.00098898 = 16.4606 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.528745 = 2.115 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5317 BTC [+]
bounce: to some people "decentralised" is a buzzword. "it must be decentralised!" -- yeah, sure. leaving aside the "how" for a moment (you did think that one through, didn't you?), there's the "then what?" as in how'd you use that in practice? did you just go from a single point of failure to N of those? how does that make the situation better? what if something goes wrong, someone rips you off, et cetera?
Naphex: i cant wait for decentralized voip with pay2relay telephony
only: ThickAsThieves: decentralizing the platform (similar to twister) and the escrow
bounce: there's also the revenue model. who'll benefit? thence, who'll build the thing?
only: ThickAsThieves: www.bitrated.com
dexX7: bitrated relies on a third party as mediator
Naphex: set up community tribunal
ThickAsThieves: wouldnt you rather have one person that is good at it, than 50 that suck or are ill actors?
only: ThickAsThieves: as long as the 3rd party can be anyone, isn't it enough?
ThickAsThieves: decntralization would be distributing the risk, not necessarily randomizing it
benkay: jurov this thing'd be a radiative collector then?
Naphex: a normal market with escrow/mediations and marketable ads is enough imho
jurov: yes. but it tihnk the numbers are BS
Naphex: yet we still dont have that
jurov: it can get few liters per night at most
only: ThickAsThieves: but how is it worse off by being decentralized?
only: ThickAsThieves: it = consumer-to-consumer marketplace
jurov: me? i was replying to benkays' water tower sry
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06395923 = 0.6396 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: we hadnt discussed the overall decentralizing of a marketplace as a bad thing
dexX7: well trustless cross-chain trading is possible (sort of) as well as colored coins <> btc markets
ThickAsThieves: it would involve dentralizing the software and content
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06395923 = 0.1919 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: they'd also need to provide same security and privacy to any host of the pieces of the system
ThickAsThieves: as in, if one person is selling weed in a jurisdiction he is not allowed, and you are host to that, you are now a target
only: not to mention the kiddie porn
ThickAsThieves: well that raises another point, if it's really decentralized, how is it moderated?
dexX7: what are you referring to by "it"?
assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.
jborkl: Now, the company's critics have fresh ammunition because of this same executive. A federal judge in Kansas has ruled that the man in question, Sonny Vleisides, violated the terms of his probation in the lottery scam case. As a result, Vleisides’ probation—previously slated to end in September 2013—will now continue for another two years.
mircea_popescu: Naphex> set up community tribunal << you know how well that worked, do you.
mircea_popescu: <only> ThickAsThieves: as long as the 3rd party can be anyone, isn't it enough? << definitely not.
ThickAsThieves: Blockchain Strikes Five Year Deal to Exclusively Manage Bitcoin.com
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10437 @ 0.00098898 = 10.322 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2507 @ 0.00098782 = 2.4765 BTC [-]
Naphex: mircea_popescu: league of legends
Naphex: the game actually set up a community tribunal
Naphex: and its filled with the funniest things ever.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.03074998 = 0.369 BTC [+] {4}
Naphex: so let the users post evidence and yell, and let the community decide :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40673 @ 0.00098103 = 39.9014 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 14 @ 0.00800009 = 0.112 BTC [-] {4}
fluffypony: " 75% of the total number of all Dogecoins are held by 0.75% of investors AND this inequity has been INCREASING"
dexX7: afaik the lol tribunal works quite well and reduced toxic player behavior greatly
assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony it's actually a measure of their thing failing. in the sense they can't pass off the scamcoin fast enough for their dump-and-dillute engine to actually extract enough value out of the environment to keep the ball rolling.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony yeah, only one case. i suspect now i built it the wrong way,
dexX7: what would you make different next time?
mircea_popescu: because YES loltribunals do work, not just on league of legends, but here too.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: that article really tears the coin apart...gets a little weird in places, but makes REALLY good points
mircea_popescu: dexX7 i think it'd look a lot more like bitcoin-assets.
dexX7: the lol tribunal is so many dimensions less complex than "real" cases so i'm not sure, if it's possible to draw conclusions based on that
only: "bounce: there's also the revenue model. who'll benefit? thence, who'll build the thing?" - can't one hard code an escrow commission into a p2p app?
ozbot: Coinfloor Mulling Plan to Launch New Bitcoin Market for Institutional Investors | Forex Minute - Fin
bounce: then again, if it's p2p, and now you get to pay someone else for the privilege of hosting the service yourself, er, why'd you use the app at all?
only: you pay that someone for the privilege of using the app he coded
only: unless there is a free alternative
only: but why would anyone build one (your argument)
chetty: thanks MP, yeah bummer I miss all the fun
assbot: Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user davout has been recorded.
dexX7: <only> can you please voice me?
assbot: Voice for only extended to 30 minutes.
only: davout, dexX7 was already voiced, but thanks
dexX7: ah, only saw your query a few seconds ago and didn't really notice
bounce: lucky this isn't -otc then eh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00097978 = 26.4541 BTC [-] {3}
ThickAsThieves: <+Oleanie> ;;rate davout 2 /// haha davout only gets a 2 from his better half
davout: ThickAsThieves: yea, teach your gf GPG, end up in an argument about how she only got rated 3
ThickAsThieves: so by Mirceanomics, Bitcoin is an economy itself, right?
ThickAsThieves: bitcoins being the medium, blockchain the gazette, mining the forum?
jurov: how is blockchain the gazette?
TomServo: I thought he suggested the WoT was the gazette, and this chan the forum
chetty: lmao Mirceanomics, a new school is born
jurov: i understood the gazette as transaction history *with human sematics*
bounce: haven't really paid attention to exactly what putin said in response to snowden, but them russkies don't appear to engage in dragnet-and-store type surveillance. they know very well who they're after and they're good at it, if not very subtle.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18893 @ 0.00098165 = 18.5463 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: bounce you saw they just openly snatched vkontakte?
ThickAsThieves: if the theory can be applied to the Sun and elements, surely applying it to the Bitcoin system isn't absurd
jurov: only and anybody else: if you have significant coinbr volume amd want voice, ask me
ThickAsThieves: i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists
bounce: jurov's trade for ratings programme, now with volume discounts
chetty: ThickAsThieves, yup, nothing new under the sun. But this version has less trash attached
jurov: but it reserve the right to decide. even tiberiusiv had some coinbr volume
jurov: hmmm but it does not allow negative ratings
jurov: unless everyone agrees on special protocol for the O_RETURN text
jurov: ooookay , so i'll rephrase specially for you
jurov: it does not allow punishment records, unless...etc
ThickAsThieves: could you say that an orhpaned block or unconfirmed tx is a punishment?
assbot: Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.
jurov: how can you cause orhpaned block or unconfirmed tx on purpose whne someone scams you?
jurov: unless you're kncminer
ThickAsThieves: i'm merely trying to see whether Bitcoin would qualify as another echo to apply it to, not whether it fits a perfect example
ThickAsThieves: i think whether it applies might lead to other interesting things
ThickAsThieves: i've got this hammer now, and trying to sort out what it can smash and what it can build
jurov: youre stretching it too extreme... then the blackhole is punishment gazette too
jurov: if the theory that hawking radiation carries information about whatever fell in
jurov: *and* you wait 10^10^100 years or so
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 106 @ 0.03112262 = 3.299 BTC [-] {4}
jurov: i'd think about real world example like pirate's coins or gox coins
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0325 = 0.13 BTC [+]
jurov: even if they managed to mark them in the blockchain
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12294 @ 0.00098721 = 12.1368 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: we need extra-blockchain information to assess them
jurov: you won't get useful info whether to trust gox from only some "mtgox" tag
jurov: you need karpeles' head on the pike plus public record what he did
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4398 @ 0.00098398 = 4.3275 BTC [-]
chetty: karpeles record is pretty public
ThickAsThieves: (note i'm taking this position for sake of the debate, i have no conclusion)
ThickAsThieves: first, the theory doesnt require consensus judgment and punishment (head on pike)
ThickAsThieves: "punishment" in its terms are merely individually given
ThickAsThieves: and then those would then be interpreted separately by any individual user
ThickAsThieves: [16:26] <+jurov> we need extra-blockchain information to assess them /// do we? each address may function as a user/reputation
ThickAsThieves: and we do have a source for extra-info, the bitcoin software
ThickAsThieves: it's interesting to me to see how much the 3 separate elements would/could function as economies themselves, and how their traits might converge
ThickAsThieves: as in the gazette now wants to be decentalized, like bitcoin
chetty: if the judgement is individual isnt the choice of information source also individual?
jurov: okay, my another objection is that rating is not done at the same time as transaction
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user Oleanie has been recorded.
ThickAsThieves: jurov that's also not a requirement of the theory as stated
jurov: no that was my objection to using current bitcoin blockchain
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> bitcoins being the medium, blockchain the gazette, mining the forum? << it's a very limited economy at that, but i guess so.
ThickAsThieves: if the WoT is decentralized, and has verification methods, signing, identities, etc, and bitcoin also does, they start to converge in their features
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists << kinda cxurious about this myself.
mircea_popescu: <jurov> hmmm but it does not allow negative ratings << 0 to 20, -10 to 10, no diff.
jurov: yes that's the protocol that must be agreed upon
ThickAsThieves: what might be the medium of exchange in the WoT? Rating points, right?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it has no medium of exchange it'd seem, because points are created and destroyed
mircea_popescu: bitcoins, you will note, are never destroyed. neiuther is gold.
mircea_popescu: neither are fiat bills (not in the sense of the physical bill, but in the sense of it being authorised, it'll get reprinted, and trhe bill is that trademark that spawns the authirisation)
jurov: blockchain.info's "taint analysis" is very crude implementation of WoT, perhaps?
ThickAsThieves: every user has 40 points they can work with, unto any other user
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this is what someone was proposing at conference, when i introduced fain
mircea_popescu: so no, that's what it is : it isn't a wot because it can't be
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> <ThickAsThieves> i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists << kinda cxurious about this myself. /// one thing it reminds me of is your basic escrow deal
mircea_popescu: benkay for years before and some time during bitcoin i had a romanian language digg style thing.
benkay: wow well extravagant claims etc. how'd you do that?
mircea_popescu: prop sauce, but basically it leveraged individual actions to evaluate everyone else's.
mircea_popescu: not so hard to distinguish machines from humans if your machine has a stable with many humans
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> so no, that's what it is : it isn't a wot because it can't be /// well i can accumulate points no? and at any given time, a maximum amount can be had, and every time a user joins anew, the system inflates to accommodate
jurov: i'd extend a punishment gazette with 3. shared protocol and then maybe public forum can be simplified away
benkay: mircea_popescu: i assume the normal 'upvoting rings' developed and existed?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but any ounce of gold stays an ounce of gold permanently. where do your rating points go when they go ?
ThickAsThieves: my rating points are held by every user that hasnt given them to me yet
ozbot: Activitatea utilizatorilor pe fain pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ozbot: Sa desenam cu fain pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
benkay: are collusive rings in these content farms necessarily a bad thing?
ThickAsThieves: it's not a typical economy, cuz it has allocation idiosyncracies, but i'm not sure if that disqualifies it
ozbot: Istoria unui proiect online pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00098529 = 23.4006 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: in fact, don't people do things at times strictly for the points?
benkay: what drives formation/dissolution vs dominion?
assbot: Voicing cgcardona_ for 30 minutes.
assbot: Voicing tyrion70 for 30 minutes.
ThickAsThieves: furthermore, <+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves but any ounce of gold stays an ounce of gold permanently. where do your rating points go when they go ? /// where is it in your theory that this matters?
ThickAsThieves: also, i'm with jurov, i see some weakness in the gazette/forum definitions and separation
ThickAsThieves: first, the gazette does not require identification in your definition
ThickAsThieves: however psuedononymous, it may be, identification is required, right?
chetty: oh hey, they up the ante on why btc is bad
ozbot: Europol director warns of paedophiles using Bitcoin to view webcams | Mail Online
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15979 @ 0.00097873 = 15.6391 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: outrageous. i hope the police catches up with them and gives them what for.
ThickAsThieves: hmm maybe i dont fully understand the conserving over time aspect
ozbot: BBC News - Nigeria: Police probe Ibadan 'house of horror'
mircea_popescu: "About 150 soldiers from the 173rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), based in Italy, are heading to each of four countries — Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia — in rotational deployments that the Pentagon says will be sustained until further notice." herp.
ThickAsThieves: the system doesnt need to track them visibly because the system allocates for each ouser in it
ThickAsThieves: for every user, every other user gets 20 neg coins and 20 pos coins
ThickAsThieves: each user may spend them on each other specific user only
ThickAsThieves: under the arrangement that you may also take them back
ThickAsThieves: it doesnt just mean it's an economy with special rules?
mircea_popescu: but your proposition was that the rating points are the moe.
mircea_popescu: kinda why doge is a dodgy scam : cause their coins don't conserve.
ThickAsThieves: so the fact that they can be taken back is where it breaks or?
mircea_popescu: the fact that the points do not conserve. think of a medium of exchange as a family.
mircea_popescu: in a much softer sense than before, this'd be practical.
ThickAsThieves: it is, for lack of a better term, perfectly and dynamically balanced
mircea_popescu: i guess if your wotcoin actually works so that every user gets 10 coins for every other user present
ThickAsThieves: to spare me arguing for it, how do you explain forum is an economy?
ThickAsThieves: my efforts here are to explore whether each of your 3 aspects are an economy themselves
ThickAsThieves: and if one is not an economy whether that can polish the theory
ThickAsThieves: like, why are the gazette and forum even separate things?
mircea_popescu: they're separated in theory, like your pulse and blood pressure are separate
mircea_popescu: "The Bureau of Prisons views any bartering among prisoners as fishy" << funny, seeing how they trade is mostly macks.
ThickAsThieves: it's also possible identifying these all as economies may help distill/evolve the overall theory
mircea_popescu: currently the entire thing is "hey guise, check out this shit i made. i call it... a box cutter. it cuts everything"
mircea_popescu: it's to be expected we'd live in a world of gashes and slashes for a while.
benkay: do economies have to conserve over time?
ThickAsThieves: i also want to demonstrate to others in public so they may be motivated to do a better job than me at prodding it
benkay: or do things increase the size of the pie?
ThickAsThieves: rather than sit there and go "oh cool, long live mircea!"
ozbot: Treadmill Bike - YouTube
mircea_popescu: and an important point is : practical implementations will be more or less neatly mapped on the theoretical requirements. they may still function
mircea_popescu: but the theory predicts that specific changes will be observable to reduce or mitigate the damage due to the particular vulnerabilities.
mircea_popescu: much like kids playing insta-ban specific behaviours they perceive as "unfair"
mircea_popescu: they're obviously in no sense unfair, but they do break the mapping, which is undesirable.
mircea_popescu: so if they're playing poker with bad cards (say, easy to recognise the queen of hearts) they may cut the queen of hearts game utility.
mircea_popescu: like, "but you only get 2/3 of the pot if you win it with a qh" or w/e.
mircea_popescu: it's nonsense to see such a rule in poker, per se. but in the context, as they're trying to map shit to a deck of cards, it makes sense. the change is due to the flaw.
mircea_popescu: in this sense, the fiat taboo on counterfitting is nonsensical, but we didn't notice this to be the case until bitcoin mapped better on the actual reality.
mircea_popescu: similarly, the fiat interdiction on theft, or the bizarre expectations of forumers (whoi mostly live in fiat, cause they're not smart enough for their culture to be programmable by themselves), indignant at hao dares bitbet not "refund"
chetty: hmm bitcoin actually helps point out all the bad queens that have been mapped around over the years
mircea_popescu: people arguing about how bitcoin will be obsoleted by "better tech", like that w3c muppet are mostly talking out of their ears.
mircea_popescu: imagine, something finding even better hiden queens ? it'll be centuries baby.
joecool: last i checked we were still using troy ounces for gold
joecool: and everyone hates that system
chetty: well I suppose bitcoin will start its own mapping
benkay: 1B -> /n/gAu, eventually.
benkay: give it three decades.
assbot: Voicing cgcardona_ for 30 minutes.
cgcardona_: thank you sir. I authed w/ gribble. guess I forgot to !up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 11 @ 0.0097 = 0.1067 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: i think my personal !up rule will be, I will up you on your first day, or if you are in mobile situations, otherwise, get with the program
jurov: well.. that bitbet thing... if someone transferred money in error, it has become common sense to return them
jurov: i don';t see how abandoning that notion is an improvement
jurov: you clearly label that as improvement
mircea_popescu: has it become common sense that if you run over someone you back your car up ?
chetty: there is a difference between error and attempt to cheat ...
ThickAsThieves: i feel like i missed the beginning of this conversation
jurov: in bitbet case, both can easily be treated in the same way
jurov: me sending something to expired addy is in no way harming bitbet
chetty: if you do it a hundred times it is, takes time and effort to clean up
mircea_popescu: which is improper, it's not your place to make that decision. it's bitbet's.
davout: jurov: the rationale is that if you count as valid bets that were sent very close to the time limit, and refund those who confirmed slightly after, you're creating an incentive to cheat since failure at cheating isn't punished
ThickAsThieves: what's the current rule, if you miss closing you get a refund, if you miss resolution yer fucked?
davout: isn't it, if you miss either you're fucked ?
mircea_popescu: currently it works like so : if your bet makes it on bitbet after the bet is closed, it goes to dividends. if your bet makes it before it's closed but after an arbitrary time selected by bitbet mods, you get it back minus 1%
ThickAsThieves: so the only cirumstance for refund is if it's just before closing?
mircea_popescu: because it's not fixed, because the bet event can resolve at any given time,
mircea_popescu: the interval between where the bet event unexpectedly took place and the time when the mod got around to closing the bet is by its nature variable
jurov: do you have evidence it actually deters cheating?
ThickAsThieves: that's actually the best argument ive heard for the arbitrary aspect so far
ThickAsThieves: but the testingunodostres example does still ring sour
ThickAsThieves: but at least i have a somewhat digestible justfication now
mircea_popescu: kinda what business is, staying above of an ever rising tide of sour.
ozbot: Jaktogo - travel solution for your extra luggage
bounce: right, that's the first one I head about. there's a few more that produce a similar thing these days though.
ozbot: BitBet - May I suggest 9B difficulty?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22348 @ 0.00095446 = 21.3303 BTC [-] {2}
bounce: there's (at least) also rufus roo, bagket, and stuffa jacket
ozbot: 6.979 billion | Next Diff in 1170 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.6493% in 6d 23h 55m 34s
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 1 @ 0.14 BTC
ThickAsThieves: i thought my backup drive died while away, turns out it was just the power supply
bounce: now you know. PSUs die too.
bounce: well, obviously, /those/ cannot ever die.
ThickAsThieves: the missus informs me that part of Mark Cuban's renewal contract with Shark Tank,
ThickAsThieves: required they no longer take a % of the company for themselves as a requirement to presenters
ThickAsThieves: "o, it's not. It's a public statement made by the director of a TV show which implies that if a woman being raped begins to enjoy it, it was never rape in the first place. This is worthy of discussion since it is tantamount to saying that all women enjoy being raped because deep down, they all love it, and all of their screaming and crying and desperate fighting to defend themselves
ThickAsThieves: against rape are lies. (Insert obligatory comment about reading TFA before commenting here.)"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm around now, been out all day.
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I bet they thought that was a good idea at the time
fluffypony: weren't we talking about quantum computing earlier?
fluffypony: oh it was mentioned in the context of Mirceanomics
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 502 @ 0.00022073 = 0.1108 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.525 = 2.1 BTC [-]
ozbot: Abstruse Goose | Quantum Secrets
ozbot: A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I saw. Seems I'll have to work on clearing up that awful pending legal matter so that I may cross borders next year.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Maybe that powdered alcohol will be cheap enough to build a rocket, because I don't anticipate it being very drinkable.
mircea_popescu: "Once the tobacco is on the compound, the pouches wholesale for 50 books of stamps, or $300 each. Each pouch is then broken down into 80 to 100 tiny rollups that cost one book each, or six dollars. A $3 pouch of Bugler ends up retailing inside for about $600—a 20,000% markup."
mircea_popescu: holy shit. this is almost as good as the music industry.
ozbot: With Cigarettes Banned In Most Prisons, Gangs Shift From Drugs To Smokes - The Daily Beast
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they do, to the same degree huge sums move in us banking system.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30656 @ 0.00095738 = 29.3494 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Still the other medium of exchange (stamps) have a fixed value outside the prison
mircea_popescu: "here's a debentures package in exchange, worth 5 trn. good deal for you"
BingoBoingo: I've also on occasion GPG signed snail mail
mircea_popescu: last time i used stamps i was making lolpasties for tits.
benkay: asciilifeform: and yet i have to explain this to just about 1/3 clients.
benkay: granted, my clients are small and derpy with the technology.
BingoBoingo: Well most of the communication with the lawyer has been either in person or over the mail.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Very interesting. I was actually thinking about maybe going cheap and just canoeing the mississippi and gulf coast to Mexico
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Now I'm going to have to digest that entire site's text
mircea_popescu: anyway. BingoBoingo how would you like to do some btc/usd arbitrage for me too ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I don't think I have the time to effectively do btc/usd artbitrage
mircea_popescu: it's basically just a scaled up version of the atc thing
BingoBoingo: Well, the outstanding student loan debts make holding any substantial USD impractical
mircea_popescu: on this tiny romanian exchange Naphex's been trying to get into shape
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: can't be much volume tho?
BingoBoingo: I don't think I've ever worked to narrow a spread. I've tried to keep the ATC spread as wide as Hilary's ass.
mircea_popescu: anyway, my idea is, ima open an acct, give you 10 btc or w/e, you can trade around but not withdraw.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: course gotta see if the guy's amenable to it too, but otherwise should be win-win-win, he gets some activity, you get more trading experience, i get some gains or w/e.
fluffypony: I played around with arbitrage on BitX.co.za, crappy local exchange, as it generally sits ~5% above Bitstamp, but with a daily volume of ~10 BTC it ends up being a lot of work for maybe $50 in profit
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: If he's amenable to the thing I'll probably be inclined to try it as there's a bit more details nao. I'm going to drink on this idea and let tomorrow's hangover show the way.
benkay: how are you still getting hangovers, BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: works. show up on some sort of romanian time tho, otherwise we'll be all thestringpullering this for a week :D
benkay: constantly pinging myself and mod6 in -assets
benkay: leastaways, i assume that's what mircea_popescu 's on about
mircea_popescu: poor guy. we love you still thestringpuller, it's just cute is all.
BingoBoingo: benkay: I still get hangovers because I drink to win.
benkay: to be fair to thestringpuller mod6 and i've been unpredictably online lately
benkay: caught a message in the middle of marinading pork over the weekend, f'r instance.
benkay: "nuh-uh, buddy. busy cooking atm."
BingoBoingo: Sometime this summer I want to try a standing beef rib roast on the kettle grill.
fluffypony: I had a braai (bbq) last night, also did ribs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.53149999 BTC [+]
fluffypony: although I think I'm over pork ribs, going back to beef
mircea_popescu: this was open gas oven. not ideal, but i found a way to use the cast iron pan's handle to prop the door open just enough. gets it reasonably cool.
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: that's the way forward, I tend to burn my meat a lil' on an open flame, but in the Weber I can shove the coals to the side and let it cook at leisure
benkay: no i mean takes me back to middle school when i was learning to grill caveman style
benkay: these days all i want is a hot gas flowing by
fluffypony: gas doesn't give the meat the same flavour
BingoBoingo: I haven't seen many gas grills that can get hot enough for steaks.
fluffypony: plus a charcoal braai is a South African tradition, we even have a public holiday that has become Braai Day (nfi what the actual holiday is for any longer)
benkay: there are tradeoffs everywhere.
benkay: hot enough for Maillard on the surface?
fluffypony: benkay: gas is awesome for breakfast, nothing like a good morning fry-up
BingoBoingo: benkay: Well hot enough for a proper sear.
fluffypony: I'm with BingoBoingo on this one - if you're going to sear a steak...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude you nuts, gas burns at like 2k degrees
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: American gas grills typically top out around 600F at a cooking height above the burners. Because we suck. (problem can be remedied by using acetylene instead of propane
moiety: lol fluffypony i replied to that thread on btctalk.
mircea_popescu: i mean ppl say "gas is not the same flavour", but : propane stinks.
benkay: see i typically cook on grills wired into the natural gas
BingoBoingo: Inside gas is still CH4, but LPG in portable tanks is propane primarily
fluffypony: moiety: did you at least get a pink knitted jersey with the Bitcoin logo on it?
moiety: fluffypony: i didn't even go to the site
BingoBoingo: People out in the boonies use propane for household use if they lack infrastructure for real gas
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00096232 = 21.171 BTC [+] {2}
moiety: hi BingoBoingo :D how's you?
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00096334 = 23.2165 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: "The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau told CNN that its approval of Palchohol was an error."
ozbot: Perri-Air - YouTube
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Have you read any of the paper work on the hows of it?
ThickAsThieves: while i see no reason it shouldnt be legal, it's obviously gonna destroy some shit
ThickAsThieves: "5. How is it made? If we told you, we'd have to shoot you. We are in the process of patenting it and it is currently patent pending."
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: My objection to it as recreational consumer is that the carbohydrates are going to make shit too sweet.
BingoBoingo: Basically you disolve the alcohol into a mix of sugars and higher molecular weight carbohydrates.
BingoBoingo: And it seems by weight they can't even get that much alcohol into the stuff.