log☇︎
90800+ entries in 0.055s
asciilifeform: ( for some conceivable applications, z80 remains more than adequate, and will remain so 50y from nao -- e.g. otp crypto, lamport, potentially -- btc walleting, etc )
asciilifeform: btw i still haven't tracked down a ro-made z80, most of my collection is from ddr
mircea_popescu: but tbh i suspect bulk of them were after 1990.
mircea_popescu: ro was getting all sorta decadent bourgeois items by the late 80s.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-11 21:14 asciilifeform: let's take an example of trustworthy iron : K573RF4 ( https://eandc.ru/pdf/mikroskhema/k573rf4.pdf )
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform , incidentally, is eternally on the lookout for anybody selling crates of eprom-window microcontrollers, they are gold standard for auditable/non-surreptitiously-rewritable iron )
mircea_popescu: there were also the "window" eeprom things, yes, but not really the same thing.
mircea_popescu: well yes, i thought it's what we were disucssing.
asciilifeform: the 1980s variant was '16c84', exactly same device aside from the glass window / uv eprom
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ( and lulzily i had the very same serialport programmator described in your link )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aaaa you meant the ~actual~ taiwanese pic16, not orcistani micros
mircea_popescu: esthlos yeah, by now there's a very large userbase for emacs established.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 17:31 asciilifeform: in so far asciilifeform is concerned, the 'universal' workstation is emacs-in-ratpoison.
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826971 << this is what i've adopted ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 17:13 mircea_popescu: what's actually the usercount ? spyked ? esthlos ? ave1 ? jurov ?
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826916 << I try to do everything I can in emacs, it being the "retarded cousin" lisp machine emulator for C machines. even used exwm for a while. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: item is 2004, and thoroughly infested with ms-isms. sadly earlier items not really online
asciilifeform: cuz in ye olde su the closest thing , afaik, were straight clones of i8051 , with eprom , i.e. the glass windows
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you happen to recall exactly what you had ?
mircea_popescu: the "arm" of the 80s.
mircea_popescu: you know we also had these ?
asciilifeform: with moar, and better-polished routines published for maths, i/o, whatever, than for just about any pc thing
asciilifeform: there is apparently still a subculture around that thing
asciilifeform: ftr, prolly the most enjoyable programming asciilifeform ever did as adult, was on a device called 'pic16', a microcontroller with 68 addressable byte ( and 1k of program rom, it was a 'harvard arch' )
mircea_popescu: this generally is the thing, "what a man and woman can do in their bedroom instead of another pregnancy"
asciilifeform: z80 was an unfathomable luxury, from the pov of the calculator folx
mircea_popescu: the golden age of the z80 games was principally driven by the fact that an intellectual unit (at the time, one guy + one gal) could churn out a game per season. most of the great "studios" of the time were this, coupla married math teachers.
asciilifeform: folx would write, on paper, what was initially an impossible-to-run 300-500 bytes, then work, whittle.
asciilifeform: imho there's something to the hypothesis that the almost absurd minimality of the earlier boxen, encouraged careful thought and experimentation
mircea_popescu: it's the exact sort of problem discussed re "scientific paradigms". dazzling array of alternatives results in manifestly inept behaviours.
asciilifeform: ( granted at the point of mk85 , troo micros were already beginning to spread, and the set of folx willing to play games with grid paper, began to thin )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very tellingly, there were afaik 0 great gamez made for mk-85 , despite the latter featuring a pdp11-compat chipset ( in, forfuckssake, a pocket calc!! runinng on , what, 20 milliamp ) and rom basic
asciilifeform: ada, for instance, is a very, very heavy kludge around the c overflows/pointerola iron.
mircea_popescu: this is not directly evident to me. it is impossible to use the killer micro as a timeshare machine, yes.
asciilifeform: the fabric makes trooly sane design of os, editor, i/o, ~impossible
asciilifeform: contention is that the pestilences emerge from the fabric of the machine, rather than merely herd of dummkopf programmertards
asciilifeform: asciilifeform even nao still, believe, trying to accomplish something on it
mircea_popescu: in discussion is the "can't do anything, pentium sucks"
mircea_popescu: i do not dispute that part.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: believe or not, mk61 was a troo breakthrough, a computer (of sorts) that could be actually mass-produced in orcistan. buncha folx did their physics dissertation models on the thing, even
asciilifeform: subj was built by people who had to hand-draw erry transistor.
asciilifeform: could just as easily say that e.g. leibniz's calculator 'not so great machine'
a111: Logged on 2018-06-11 16:18 asciilifeform: one of these was 'reactor control' , with realistic constants, you had to ramp up reactor, control the rods and the sodium pump etc, object was to get max power but avoid meltdown
mircea_popescu: tell you what, get me a box whose only remaining problem is that well... hardware sucks.
asciilifeform: on 'c machine', with overflows , runaway pointerolade, etc being inescapable facts of life, 'dragon' comes from the very earth.
mircea_popescu: sure ; but still plenty of dragons to be killed on this island, before taking airship.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 19:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on account of 40 yrs of os braindamage, folx often confuse what they want , in that they think they want multithread, but really want nonblockage
asciilifeform: errybody outgrew the von neumann box as soon as they started trying for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1827189 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: there is some merit to first outgrowing the hardware.
mircea_popescu: when i was 16, my informatics teacher in the informatics lab told the kids upset at being stuck with the 286s (there were like half a dozen 386s too) that "if you ever get to where you mastered THAT cpu, you'll be way ahead of anything they teach in college anyway".
asciilifeform: re 'manifest matter at will' : in early 2000s asciilifeform grasped the mega-problem , that programming ain't actually hard, except for stripping away the monkey shit produced by 50 yrs of monkey. 'i want a sane emacs' turned into 'sane prog lang' and quickly 'sane os' then 'sane iron' , and afaik this actually the inevitable correct cut, rather than caprice
mircea_popescu: well so there we go.
mircea_popescu: it's not "oh, errybody has a rotten plank or two keeping'em afloat." it's "oh, everybody ~can manifest matter by will~, currently everybody hanging off the bare minimum rotten plank and they're not even COMPARED". ☟︎
asciilifeform: the current alternative, tho, is not a luxury liner appearing out of nowhere from the sky, but simply no plank, and watery grave.
mircea_popescu: i still gota plot < if i wanna see the graph of a csv. that's floating in lalaland.
asciilifeform: it's moar of a shipwreck, errybody has a rotten plank or two keeping'em afloat.
mircea_popescu: everyone does it every day because the psychological pain of the laternative is just too great. but, great or small -- you're all fucking drowning.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, the reasoning "a. i have here toe of mummified saint justinian ; b. saint justinian once saved people from drowning ; ergo c. drowning is solved problem in my case" is batshit.
mircea_popescu: which is why it's all coming out of the tube here.
asciilifeform: ( nobody, afaik, anywhere, uses the factory config )
asciilifeform: same thing as in the earlier emacs thread
mircea_popescu: this truth'd better be faced sooner than later. your x11 is x11 by abuse of terminology and naught else.
mircea_popescu: so to sum up this -- i have no dispute that everyone uses shards, bits and pieces hammered off named items, and pretends they're using the named items, "i use x11 in this so and so sense" "i use browser all day -- except not in any sense browser, of course" and so on.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 19:35 mircea_popescu: to put it more stringently, "if your machine dumping core doesn't produce an emacs session, why aren't you using dos again ?"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1827208 << >> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=267 ( and, sadly, afaik the only successful demonstration of this behaviour, was bolix ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( observe that lynx/curl ~effortlessly display tmsr www items )
asciilifeform: same thrust as the fritz/cr50/etc nonsense.
asciilifeform: the heathens know this, and so they specifically put mega-effort into making 'get the text out via awk-like' as painful as possible.
mircea_popescu: because in all honestly, i wouldn't even ~deign~ rto look upon the shit that's dailymail other than through n layers of awk. i don't CARE whjat they think they're saying asnymore than i care what the fetwhores think they're saying.
asciilifeform: www tools are in a sorry state, the choice is roughly 1) lynx 2) ipadism
mircea_popescu: but... yes, all these are tips of icebergs.
asciilifeform: iirc there is a wwwtron , of a kind, built into emacs; it is in roughly the same condition as climacs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform point is, if i am using emacs wm, WHY should i kludge everything. and if kludge is the way of the land, why do we give a shit about emacs.
mircea_popescu: who's gonna rewrite this into sanity ? and why, so as to save the mozillatards ? break all the cr50s they scattered everywhere to save them ?
mircea_popescu: otherwise... what ? STRICTLY only way to tell "do not load foreign pages" to "modern" browser is to turn off the dns port.
mircea_popescu: THIS is what i fucking mean re views. if i wanna see my data as a graph it'd be useful if it were right there in the editor, and if i wanna see websites it'd better also.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform point being, everyone uses curl, while pretending to have firefox. everyone uses terminal, while pretending to have x11.
asciilifeform: and what's to stop you from diddling the strings in a http proxy. ( prolly easier, really, than making a 'greasemonkey' kludge for erry possible www browser )
mircea_popescu: what is this, the usg budget ?
mircea_popescu: i ~should~ be able to enforce memory limits per branch, not fucking "nobody knows why firefox runs out of memory, but it has been leaking for 10 years straight now"
mircea_popescu: ("oh, mp, people would turn adds of if we did that" "duh").
mircea_popescu: and moreover, why shouldn'\t i be able to see the dom tree and permit/disallow certain branches from running ?
mircea_popescu: some of them grudgingly still allow individual cookie inspection -- but NOT EDITING COOKIES
mircea_popescu: and it doesn't stop there ; are you aware "modern browser" won't even allow luser to set referrer string ? it's either "nothing at all" or else "Speak the truth". why ? so that fetlife can imp[lement faux security a la "oh, your referrer is incorrect, best relogin".
asciilifeform: dunno about other folx, but i use it -- in the sense described in linked threads -- ~all day, erryday.
mircea_popescu: you've already stopped using x11. that you don't admit this, well, different story. but in point of fact, x11 is already off by default.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nevertheless, consider : when the ~only~ possible use of x11 comes to fore, which is to say, playing a video game, all EVERYONE can think of is "how do i makew this a texrt client"
asciilifeform: i fully expect that linus will eventually sell 'his brand' so craig wright or whoever can make an Official 'linuxcoin' or whatever garbage.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-03 18:16 asciilifeform: 'Bram Cohen, famously invented BitTorrent' 'proofs of space and time' [many squigglies] 'decentralized, and more secure' 'Install and setup Keybase' etc.
asciilifeform: ( as for the orig idjit trying to leverage 'his brand', d00d's been at it for quite some time, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-03#1732650 ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: 'BitTorrent, one of the most recognisable brands in the world' << what's next, http is also 'brand' ?
a111: Logged on 2015-02-26 21:07 asciilifeform: mats: for one thing, it it can't be piped over ip, it isn't a substitute for x
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-26#1034767 << and yet earlier x11 thread. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 00:11 asciilifeform: i always thought this was one of the spiffiest things re the smbx boxes
asciilifeform: re x11, see also thread http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631304 ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform has nearly a whole www devoted to subj... )
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 19:45 mircea_popescu: leaving this briefly aside, consider the idiocy of "traditional" linux stack. there's a... wm, running x11 ; and in it you load a ... browser... which does it's own windows management (now called tabs).
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1827214 << this is merely tip of iceberg, dun forget the multiple impedance-mismatched memory allocators, gc, etc ☝︎
asciilifeform: the tunneling behaviour of x11 makes it practical to use a box with no video card, no kbd, etc. as a full-bore workstation ( and this was used as early as the bolix lispm )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 04:57 asciilifeform: well, on classical x11 i have, e.g., machine that runs, say, 20 gui proggies, and each one 1) is on an entirely different machine, somewhere else, some of them not even on same continent 2) behaves EXACTLY as if it were running locally, window reshapes, etc 3) none have any shared state with the others, each sees local disk only of own local machine etc