log☇︎
75700+ entries in 0.046s
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851208, asciilifeform was right. I used the list of system calls and read the man pages and some linux kernel code. (I've worked with the whole BSD sockets stuff for way too long but not so much directly with it in the past 10 years or so, and it has grown wraths...). Plus figuring out how to do system calls with more than 3 parameters took some work (was not hard but in relation with inline assembly made it difficult). ☝︎
lobbes: Detailed update on step 3) referenced within: I have finished designing/building out/testing the underlying table and field structure (I ended up migrating the underlying db to postgres in lieu of sqlite, and so far am glad I did). Right now I am in the thick of the re-tooling of my old coad. Still looks to be on-track for Oct 31st delivery, but I will keep folx updated ☟︎
lobbes: TMSR~: Updated auctionbot eta 'steps to fruition' to be a little more reflective of my current state >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/auctionbot-eta-and-status-report/
asciilifeform: me-instantiable. you may want this for your tester.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-14 13:35 a111: Logged on 2017-06-06 19:40 asciilifeform: mod6, phf , et al : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/ada/horsecocks.tar.gz << i dun recall posting this before, so here it will live, for nao : unofficial release of mmaptron
asciilifeform: diana_coman: last (for nao) observation -- 1) it is possible to make the thing 'fancier' in 2 ways -- can make Socket a 'controlled type' ( as i did in mmap, see http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850368 ) , then it can close itself when going out of scope. i did not do this, as it adds a bit of overhead 2) it is possible to make the lib a 'generic' ( again see horsecocks re how ) , and make udptrons of different packet length runti ☝︎
asciilifeform: that rounds out the list of errata currently known, i think
asciilifeform: there's also a missing restrict pragma in the lib, pragma Restrictions(No_Implicit_Conditionals) , took it out during dev (when experimented with to-string sans-callout ) and forgot to reinsert
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_genesis#L298 also may produce string with spurious trailing whitespace, prolly oughta fix
asciilifeform: ( i think there's also at least 1 typo in the comments )
asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu : nobody noticed, but it is troo -- i forgot to close the socket in the demo ( this has 0 effect, os closes ). but in next rev will correct this.
asciilifeform: as for tcp, unixsockets, etc. imho if we ever need these, they oughta live in own separate lib, given as they force somewhat different and gnarlier semantics, they do not belong in 1 gigantic 'kitchen sink' imho ☟︎
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851125 << incidentally, we very much want to do this. diana_coman mind setting up a large testing harness, send a soup of all packets lengths from 1 to 65536 bytes each hour back and forth for a week or two ?
diana_coman: anyways, rounding up, it seems my next step here is to 1. set up the testing harness http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-9-18#431515 2. put asciilifeform's lib to use in smg.comms ☟︎
asciilifeform: diana_coman: somewhere i also have glue for unix signals support, so proggy can do the Right Thing when you ctrl-c, or kill, etc. but this i'll dust off later (or if somebody has a dire need)
asciilifeform: ( gnat's asm support is not particularly different from ye olde gcc's, only syntax slightly variant -- unsurprising, considering that same backend is used )
diana_coman: asciilifeform, the timeout was the only one I hesitated on too (and the only one I'm using in the original test for that matter) but precisely like you, when I thought of it, I came up with "well, threading should be enough anyway " and uhm, no reason why it's *needed* there
asciilifeform: diana_coman: there'll be no getting away from inline asm once we start planting things on naked iron.
asciilifeform: ( ada uses 'green' threading, rather than os's, but iirc the os threads are involved ultimately )
diana_coman: fwiw, I'm also quite grateful that ave1 published it now - it pointed me to ada inline assembler (I hadn't really looked at it before!) and it gives me some time to hopefully get a bit more used to it *before* I'll need it anyway
asciilifeform: but i haven't tried erry possible os, conceivably it breaks on microshit or somesuch.
mircea_popescu: ada threading still seems as promising as it did weeks ago. few things survive this long lol
asciilifeform: ( unix gives this option, but it is of questionable imho use if you have working threading )
asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu : i thought about including timeout in 'procedure Receive...' but sat and thought and could not think of why , so omitted.
asciilifeform: the only part that'd change , for this, is what's in unix_udp.c ( 139 ln. )
diana_coman: heh, asciilifeform has it: the way I see it, ave1's work will come in very handy at a later date when we can get rid of more of the C mess
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 12 hours and 56 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plox to snarf vpatch in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2557 , ty
asciilifeform: ultimately we'll have asmolade that simply drives the nic directly.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: libc, specifically ( i like musl, but it doesn't belong on the fyootoor all-adatronic box )
diana_coman: and I actually think it is a step in the right direction since it gets rid of C
asciilifeform: ( supposing he doesn't get to it 1st )
asciilifeform: asciilifeform incidentally much appreciates ave1's work, when i remove the c glue i'ma just about certainly crib from his asm glue
asciilifeform: btw if anybody can think of how to further simplify the api, asciilifeform is all ears
mircea_popescu: ave1 i very much hope you don't think your own work is a waste for this reason. ☟︎
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm not married to the c glue, and it'll eventually go. i am quite fond of my api tho, it completely rids user of having to think in unixisms , imho
asciilifeform: troo congestion begins when you start to overload yer local box/lan
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851155 << speaking of which, what's our next step here ? 1. wanna do cpu timing/load comparisons on the two libs ? 2. say that given the nature of the task (many different folk are expected to implement clients on various platforms) thin c is better than straight asm because more widely spoken and also presumably more portable/less friable ? 3. somethi
diana_coman: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-9-18#431566 -> I'm thinking of 2 there ; asciilifeform's lib also provides I think a good interface - I don't see any reason why one couldn't just change /swap the underlying .c file with ada or asm at a later date without having to change otherwise anything of whatever one builds on top of the lib (i.e. relying on the lib's interface)
mircea_popescu: which may permit further 2nd pass data processing. but that -- open to reader.
mircea_popescu: it'll passively show network congestion too i think, because of the hourlies.
mircea_popescu: i do not think we want more moving parts than those two
asciilifeform: diana_coman: at the very minimum, survival rate, and latency. ( could also try to measure reorderiness, but immediately obvious how )
mircea_popescu: delta time and packet loss, i think.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851125 << incidentally, we very much want to do this. diana_coman mind setting up a large testing harness, send a soup of all packets lengths from 1 to 65536 bytes each hour back and forth for a week or two ?
diana_coman: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-9-18#431515 -> what data do we want to log from this?
asciilifeform sings old folksong, where '...and the first, first, constipated man, was cain, he wasn't... abel'
mircea_popescu: i spenta while trying, but the sad truth about impotence is that sooner or later one has to come to terms with the facts of the matter. i just... can't.
asciilifeform: mebbe i'm thick, but why even bother to read the male tards
mircea_popescu: i can't quite manage to find 20something dicklets offensive anymore.
asciilifeform: personally i find the plebez with 0 pretense to 'understand' anyffing, slightly less offensively stupid ( rather like dried shit is less offensive than fresh ) but possibly just me.
mircea_popescu: "as long as the fridge works, why do i need to understand adiabatic cycles! MYSTICAL SCIENTISM CLINTON FOR THE WIN!"
asciilifeform: cloink, goes the roman mosaic, creak goes the oxcart.
mircea_popescu: which may be the only place in the world still possessed of kids who think http://trilema.com/2011/romanul-si-marea/ 'ing footnotes of eton obscura is liek gold.
mircea_popescu: i expect he's aware, seeing how notwithstanding he and some chicks (married to other dudes) he lists are in "antactica", the extended network of "play partners" etc eventually points to edinburgh.
asciilifeform saw any number of 'phun phakts' 'toilet reading' tomes in dusty shops, from the period, literally full of 'today's word, refers to act of fucking railroad carriages, is...'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this flavour of thing is actually a 1980s meme, is what passed for lolcats in those days
mircea_popescu: sounds like what happens when you teach ustards the letters and no more. sooner or later they'll find an old translation of a greek thesaurus and start mixymatching it up.
BingoBoingo: Sounds like what happens when you pack hot anthrax tight in a hair fillicle
mircea_popescu: and that word is of course "floccinaucinihilipilification".
asciilifeform: y'know, the kind for whom 'deep b00k' is '9000 phun phakts by time magazine', 'ted talk', etc
mircea_popescu: n world, where he's like smart and in control and shit. what fucking perl script, one needs wetware for this much self-referential lulz.
mircea_popescu: "Oh! Before you go, there you are: Floccinaucinihilipilification: The act or habit of describing or regarding something as unimportant, of having no value or being worthless. Doms around the world, might wanna include that one in your dirty talk when trying to be a fancy degrader. Didn't want you to leave without learning something new ;) got extra points if you actually read the whole word." << dude's seriously off in his ow
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 04:38 mircea_popescu: now back to fake homosexuality : human sexuality is a learned behaviour. proper homosexuality is an inability to learn, akin to dyslexia or lefthandedness. fake homosexuality is the exact contrary, a lot of "what if"ism and "provemewrong"ism and so on. a social, rather than biological phenomenon.
mircea_popescu: this is true innit. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-25#1818559 sword cuts many many ways, most of which... not so useful. ☝︎
BingoBoingo: Nothing stimulates them to completion anymore. Hence the "sensualist" title the perl script offered
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Trope of the last decade, the weirdos go deeper and deeper into weirdo porn and dysfunction their sex
asciilifeform: ( evidently not errybody got the 'spartan speaks with his sword' memo )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo is this some "threaded cock" joke ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 15:31 mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the lulzfarm, "What do you need to know about me? I'm one hell of a kind. Seriously. You might like me or not, but you'll surely not find anyone as annoying/amazing as me. I consider myself a "mystic scientist" because, what is the supernatural world but unknown knowledge? I'm an engineer, a painter, a thinker, a bookworm, a weirdo, a kinkster, a traveler, a constant horny sensualist."
mircea_popescu: more than half of them are in a box with a cardinal in nine or ten digits!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i also suspect that distinguishable folx , where they exist, are occupied with sumthing other than prattling re how supposedly distinguishable they are..
mircea_popescu: it's not like, generation is like dropping balls, with there being a coupla boxes at the age of 0, and maybe a dozen boxes by age 6, and at MOST fifty or so boxes by age 25. and so by the law of large fucking numbers, every single fucking 25yo out there is in a class with at best MILLIONS of other, perfectly equal and entirely interchangeable balls.
asciilifeform: i expect it'll look like those nigerian dear|sir|madam|colleague, please consider out snakeoil|cockring|cockcage ...' items mircea_popescu collected
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in better America the trucks carting around propaganda speakers are increasing their activity
mircea_popescu: 27yo male. that you will not find anymore as X as. because this is now a thing, 20somethings are distinguishable in that absolute sense.
asciilifeform: one day the perl script that generates these, lol, will leak out..
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the lulzfarm, "What do you need to know about me? I'm one hell of a kind. Seriously. You might like me or not, but you'll surely not find anyone as annoying/amazing as me. I consider myself a "mystic scientist" because, what is the supernatural world but unknown knowledge? I'm an engineer, a painter, a thinker, a bookworm, a weirdo, a kinkster, a traveler, a constant horny sensualist." ☟︎
asciilifeform: my orig application called for 'no frag', given as already luby, so why also have ??? in the mix ruining the impedance match
asciilifeform: ( btw the standard reassembly method is quite braindamaged, those folx never apparently heard of e.g. luby )
asciilifeform: lol except for where it'll go through nyc.nsa..
mircea_popescu: seems uy to uk as fine as can be had, that's what, 3 intercons.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:33 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851125 << incidentally, we very much want to do this. diana_coman mind setting up a large testing harness, send a soup of all packets lengths from 1 to 65536 bytes each hour back and forth for a week or two ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851201 << this would be a very interesting experiment. keep in mind that the result is heavily path-dependent tho ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-03-29 19:02 asciilifeform: ave1: illustrated is the use of stack frame to get cmdline args; and the use of raw SYSCALL to , e.g., get file size, open it, mmap over it, then dump its contents to stdout, then close, quit
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-29#1791027 << thread. ☝︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that he followed same method as described in his http://ave1.org/2018/gnat-zero-foot-print-take-2-no-c item ( which i suggested a long time ago ), simply take the calls & translate by hand into the linux abi convention
mircea_popescu: incidentally ave1 what was your process there ? did you compile a higher language original (what, c ?) and then desasm the resulting object code ? followed by a handpass through the result, neating & trimming things out ? or did you start with a blank page and a legal pad ? ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 13:46 diana_coman: it's not fully clear to me if it's something needed /desired atm; at any rate, compared to where I was 2 days ago, it's great - all of a sudden it went from "need to do this from scratch, ugh" to "there are 2 republican libs with 2 approaches, which one fits best my needs?" ; I'm rather delighted to be honest
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851155 << speaking of which, what's our next step here ? 1. wanna do cpu timing/load comparisons on the two libs ? 2. say that given the nature of the task (many different folk are expected to implement clients on various platforms) thin c is better than straight asm because more widely spoken and also presumably more portable/less friable ? 3. something else ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851153 << not entirely dead, still gotta do the init dance. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: (by soup i mean, don't send them in order of size, but in some random order each hour)
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 13:19 asciilifeform: can freely experiment, simply turn the knob ( dun forget to turn it on both ends.. )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851125 << incidentally, we very much want to do this. diana_coman mind setting up a large testing harness, send a soup of all packets lengths from 1 to 65536 bytes each hour back and forth for a week or two ? ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform will bbl, teatime
asciilifeform: it's a pretty tall tower, yes
mircea_popescu: talk about tower of insanity, btw. THAT.
mircea_popescu: people finally wised up to the fact it's insane to bitflip a single variable into the ground "to save space". i suspect ~same realisation i nthe wings re udp
mircea_popescu: what it is is certainly <1kb say. wasting the occasional portion of a kb is not so unlike wasting the occasional portion of a 64 bit register to represent a boolean value. ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote the item originally for gossipd experimentations. udp gives a max practical packet length ( what it is , remains to be determined ) and if given proggy's protocol needs variably-sized ones, you can pad with rng. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's not clear to me that varying the packet size AND the packet count rather than just the packet count is a wise move. it's not clear to me what it buys, especially considering there's externalities (udp packets under a certain size travel better than over ; this for technical reasons unrelated to other considerations).