tmsr - Search: i

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asciilifeform: 'The journal's editor, Robert Greene, wrote back to say that Storms’s stance set “a terrible precedent” because it was unfair to the author of the paper and opposed the APA’s policies and the guidelines followed by other reviewers. “Given that your policy conflicts with that of the journal, I think that it's best that you step down from the editorial board,” he wrote.'

PeterL: while we are talking about things to stick in TRB-I, how about lowering the block size by an order of magnitude or so?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally i suspect that a regenesised fork would begin to gather steam long before http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621006 . ☝︎

asciilifeform: but , upstack, when i think about trbi i go into 'bridge design' mode, where 'it gotta bear all of the tanks that could possibly physically fit, and then let's also assume that martians stack'em five layers deep '

mircea_popescu: not a bad piece if i do say so myself. but yes, perhaps that's what it is.

mircea_popescu: not really. i can still send dust.

asciilifeform: ( i was convinced of this very quickly after coming up with my 'shitcoin' thing )

a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 16:56 mircea_popescu: but the correct trb-i might just as well end up this situation where block reward is 1mn bitcoin, and it dies within 1mn blocks. so all mining does is produce ~ a lease ~ on a chunk of bitcoin. and the value of old bitcoin is monotonically decreasing over their lifetime.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is right, i waas abouittosay

mircea_popescu: i mean danielpbarron

asciilifeform: but, upstack, conundrum is, if some of the oldtx depend on prevblock in a way that is known immediately when said block was mined -- it gives a head start to plagiarists ( per earlier observation -- folx who take a freshly-mined block and try to make ~replacement~ for it with higher PoW.) but if they are ~not~ immediately known, and depend in any way on waltzeable Z, then 'haha i'll waltz until it falls in my 10%'.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the cure, i realized, is that ~some~ of the oldtx selected by Z must depend on value of prev block, so as to prevent waltzing of Z 'until all i need is the 10% i'm fraudulently storing instead of the 100%' .

john_cocktail: but really, I've recently found myself reading the logs and wanted to stop by

john_cocktail: so he is i

john_cocktail: i gave birth to myself

asciilifeform: and actually now that i think about it, it'd be guaranteed-lethal

asciilifeform: i.e. danielpbarron's vectors

mircea_popescu: i guess.

asciilifeform: i.e. that some output, somewhere, yielded moar coin than the sum of the inputs.

asciilifeform: which means that i gotta be able to prove that monetary mass is what the mining curve says it is. and not something else.

mircea_popescu: i think i always did.

mircea_popescu: i don't see public balances are useful.

asciilifeform: i suppose this is why mircea_popescu wanted the 2-input thing.

a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 20:37 asciilifeform: ('martian bank' being simply a naive abstraction of 'idealizes swiss bank', where money supply is constant, and i can send from account a1 can send to a2 if and only if i have the privkey for a1, and double-spend - impossible, etc.)

asciilifeform: ( i can't think of any reason why payee would care if payer A, or B, had supplied the agreed-upon amount )

asciilifeform: i guess this isn't one of the problems.

mircea_popescu: or yes i was about to say that.

mircea_popescu: i dunno, say politically. if you decide to claim tomorrow that there never was such a thing as c3, how do i deal with it ?

asciilifeform: i can never keep the 2 straight.

asciilifeform: i dug for the can-guarantee-avg-case-np-hard? thing -- found zip.

mircea_popescu: this item definitely counts for your grand list of trb-isms. on the strength of that, "computable", i ask no more.

asciilifeform: i suspect so

mircea_popescu: actually i suspect it can be proven that in any ordered set with two operations which admit distinct id operators / are commutative this property can't exist.

mircea_popescu: it's ~worth nothing that "hurr durr, riong signatures" when i can degraqde it by trying subgroups until i hit yours.

asciilifeform: all i recall is old thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-30#1532069 ☝︎

mircea_popescu: (i've been thinking about this thing ever since fluffypony first spoke in channel, but hey. i';ve nothing meaningful to show for it.)

asciilifeform: the good noose : i don't know a proof that you ~can't~ do this...

asciilifeform: oook i getit

mircea_popescu: Let there be private keys K1...Kn. Let there be uxto associated with these, I1..Im so that any one I is associated with one and only one K. let there be a function S, so that the verification function V(Kx, S(Iy)) is always false, or uncomputable, or whatever whereas V(K1..Kn, S(Iy)) is always true if and only if the K Iy is associated to signed it.

mircea_popescu: let me restate because i'm not sure it's clear.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's suppose you had ring signature, we have edge of the sword. how does the hilt work ? i.e. you have an output, that is spendable, but you want it spendable by ~you~, not by 1,001 randomly-selected pubkeys.

mircea_popescu: shinohai consider i'm not even 40 yet l/

shinohai hopes mircea_popescu writes an article "In which I became lost in my own museum"

asciilifeform: metoo, i was quite convinced that i lost a set of l0gz to bitrot

mircea_popescu: hallelujah i was getting pretty depressed.

mircea_popescu: i'm so fucking frustrated. no mention of hamiltonian cycles, no mention of blum who came up with it, nothing. what the fuck miserable idiot am i, can't reference anything properly.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think i found it : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-05#1396876 ☝︎

asciilifeform: i.e. no known algo for constructing a known problem--solution pair, using rng, of ~known~ average complexity.

asciilifeform: i walked compendia of known np-hard/np-complete problems, and found that all of them had same hole

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-10#1402378 << i think it was thereabouts. ☝︎

asciilifeform: i actually worked with this notion last year, when investigating nonretarded (i.e. of provable complexity) block ciphering. and came to same realization that mircea_popescu is probably about to come to

mircea_popescu: what the fuck i hallucinated math discussions.

mircea_popescu: i derrided it for being impractical but i can't fucking find the discussion

mircea_popescu: either i must show you A, or else an A - A' relation.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's this scheme whereby i create a graph, A and a homomorphism of it A'. you get ot see A', and may challenge me

mircea_popescu: i forget wtf that is called, we discussed it.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re-reading i am pretty much convinced that the requirement that a) signatures are produced pairwise nevertheless b) no pairwise verification function exists yet c) verification works on a group of them is batshit insanity. might as well ask for a 5 smaller than 4.

asciilifeform: as i understand, what mircea_popescu would like is : V(K1, S)=false, V(K2, S)=false, .... BUT V(K1,K2,..,KN, S) = true

mircea_popescu: i would still love to see, for what it's work, PROPER ring signatures.

mircea_popescu: "all txn are 2 in 2 out" fixed width txn seems nailed down at this point. i can't see how an argument would work that'd offset the evident gains.

asciilifeform: as far as i can see, this solves. Z depends on previous block, and the xor'd output is ~covered~ by the hash (and nonce) of the currently-worked-on block. so miner cannot craft his Z, he is forced to suck it up.

mircea_popescu: i have no argument with that.

mircea_popescu: i dunno. the further you go prng-away from the "quote the nth line in the log", the closer you getr to "my solution to mining is mining+mining"

mircea_popescu: half the reason i'm a shitty scientist : unlike the good ones, i get laid.

asciilifeform: it needs a fundamental breakthrough, i suspect.

asciilifeform: as i currently understand it, mircea_popescu's algo had two major effects -- a) nodes have something valuable to sell b) all users are protocolically forced to retain all blocks

asciilifeform: i posted one just the other day (granted it wasn't 'any redditard', but wotronic)

mircea_popescu: right you are, i updarted it.

omraphantom: i've looked into crypto recently i've been poking at this key stuff last couple days been learning a lot

pete_dushenski: omraphantom: i'm sure BingoBoingo can mentor you on carpentry but he's a couple states away in mo.

pete_dushenski: speaking of wences, he was still pretending to be a person as recently as july 2015 (http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/21/wences-whacked-xapo-zapped/) though can't say i've heard a meaningful peep from him or about him since aside from 'swiss kyc blahblah' nothing-on-a-stick.

omraphantom: they have a carpenter friend that was in my state i should meet apparently. i have a furniture blueprint just zero skills lol

omraphantom: i heard of it from mircea

omraphantom: but at the same time i'm not saying i won't be doing my course credits

omraphantom: but for now i need to focus on the general education credits

omraphantom: i might start and end up pursuing a different degree

omraphantom: when i can't think straight to gewt the seasons right >.<

omraphantom: i'm going to be 20 when i start now flm

omraphantom: i'm not reallly an engineer yet lol

mircea_popescu: sorry alf i'm busy chatting up this engineering 19yo.

mircea_popescu: i don't have an email!

asciilifeform: re upstack -- i actually have here an earlier mips from imagination co. -- it is notbad.jpg (tested back in the day as potential pogo replacement)

asciilifeform: even so i'd buy one

ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620306 << to round the thread out, i also enjoy veen's company tremendously ☝︎

trinque: I fixed the problem of the mute bot, though

trinque: BingoBoingo: no response eh? I'll take a look

mod6: I still appreciate all your efforts, regardless.

asciilifeform: i didnt make anything fit for memorializing in Soba this mo

shinohai: mod6: No I was trying to use xmacros to automate some clicks for mircea_popescu and accidentally bought the wrong bundle @ 45 bitcents

mod6: yeah, trying to keep up with all these posts. just started this one on "possible trb-i"

shinohai: Awesum! Looking forward to it, I'm just now delving into asciilifeform 's tome.

shinohai: I feel better now.

mod6: <+BingoBoingo> <mircea_popescu> trb-tits << I thought that was shinohai's fork << :D

mircea_popescu: and i do mean this. nobody. tom cook isn't a fucking ceo, and if i replaced him with hillary's daughter there'd be no perceptible difference anywhere.

mircea_popescu: i had since opportunity to verify all of them, and they are all false. he's as much of a businessman as any random redditard, which specifically includes pirate, the silk road dork, etcetera.

mircea_popescu: and by that fashion, little tidbits of text were "Scored" through you know, SCIENTIFIC !!11 process like "ab testing" (i kid you not, they all do the same basic statistics wronglyt inthe same ways)

asciilifeform: incidentally, i gotta wonder, who specifically is responsible for the 'fourty-one things THEY DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW about $idiocy' crapolade that has displaced ~all other ads on www ? it even exists in ru .

mircea_popescu: man fired from one can become part of the other and back and forth forever, "i just work here" etcetera. there's no substance i can discern to the proposed classification whatsoever.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not entirely sure that ability to distinguish wasn't more of a symptom of the cockroach working than anything else. "i can distinguish tarantula that bit me from tarantula that did not" is scarcely a quote after linnaeus.

mircea_popescu: i mean the kitchen cockroach is not kitchen cockroach sp as opposed to bedroom cockroach just because that's where they happened to be captured.