log☇︎
68300+ entries in 0.467s
mircea_popescu: so in idiots this decays to "what should i do here ?" "uh i dunno, but X is more friendly to our shared delusions of equality, humanism and our democracy!"
mircea_popescu: (no, noticing a nail and going "oh, i remember hammer can hit nails" is NOT technical ability. a ditzy blonde / bright dog can do the fucking same. technical ability is when you can say ~use x, because no other tool is more adequate here~. that's technical fucking ability.)
mircea_popescu: and by people with no technical ability i mean the likes of ian murdock or rms. the lot of them, really.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1637056 << i do believe you have a point, the explanation isn't exactly idiocy, but rather, the fact that in people with no technical ability, the seepage of their political ideas into their practice was unavoidable. ☝︎
Framedragger: i understand, i just got scared like a little girl
a111: Logged on 2017-04-04 15:54 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1637034 << i was planning to use pthreads for a prototype thingie for tmsr :( "EVERYTHING IS BAD"
a111: Logged on 2017-04-04 15:46 asciilifeform: hey i deautoconfed gpg's mpi lib 100%
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform talk about beta ingestion. i bet you the "diet" dorks eat more than shaves off my grinders.
mircea_popescu: can't say as i have. by the age i was hanging out with the rave sluts i was no longer playing with magnets.
mircea_popescu: "oh, and you're really pissed at that guy ?" "yeah man totally. i hate that guy."
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone takes carbon dating seriously. outside of the you know, "ring" so to speak. it's a trade secret of the substance and nature of wrestling storylines.
mircea_popescu: well no i mean that i actually knew
mircea_popescu: i vaguely remember some guy trying to do something along those lines re nuclear waste recycling
mircea_popescu: i dunno he did that lol.
asciilifeform: i had nfi that tesla moved it back 200y!1111
a111: Logged on 2017-04-04 12:28 mircea_popescu: phf the main objection to your quiet style is that now i can't discern whether you a) understood the arguments and are thinking about it ; b) simply didn't understand the arguments or c) understood what was said but didn't judge it any kind of argument. express yourself, don't repress yourself!
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1636979 << i think the argument presupposes conditions that anticipate the problem, so in a sense it supports what i said originally, while also appearing in opposition ☝︎
asciilifeform: it was an instance of exactly same thing. ANY attempt to paper over 'i have nfi what the user has, let's support 10,000,001 possible braindamages' ends up looking like autoconf.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 13:59 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526615 << my complaint is that it adds a meg of UNREADABLE and - largely UNTESTABLE (i do not have a VMS box, nor a machine with zsh or ksh, nor do i intend to , and i REFUSE to sign code that claims to run there , srsly wtf omfg) - and that it introduces massive turd, useless language m4, go and learn it, read the implementation
asciilifeform: i dun see any actual evidence of this 'tried'
a111: Logged on 2017-04-04 15:51 asciilifeform: to expand: say your proggy uses, i dunno, pthreads. wants to know where to find the header. WHY does this turn into a MB of scriptolade liquishit ? rather than a 1liner, that tries to find it and if not finds, prompts the user ?
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1637034 << i was planning to use pthreads for a prototype thingie for tmsr :( "EVERYTHING IS BAD" ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: to expand: say your proggy uses, i dunno, pthreads. wants to know where to find the header. WHY does this turn into a MB of scriptolade liquishit ? rather than a 1liner, that tries to find it and if not finds, prompts the user ? ☟︎
asciilifeform: hey i deautoconfed gpg's mpi lib 100% ☟︎
trinque: I dunno the existing C world can ever be expected to be fixed in the manner you imply.
trinque: hm, possibly. though it's also possible I trust two separate paths down the v-tree for that
asciilifeform: actually trinque i know of at least 2
trinque: I don't expect that there would for example be a diversity of republican emacs builds
shinohai: I actually had a Russian camgirl that asked if I was Jew before she paid for services, she said she didn't like jews and wouldn't pay them xD
mircea_popescu: ah nm ukr. i thouight those tiles looked familiar.
mircea_popescu: phf the main objection to your quiet style is that now i can't discern whether you a) understood the arguments and are thinking about it ; b) simply didn't understand the arguments or c) understood what was said but didn't judge it any kind of argument. express yourself, don't repress yourself! ☟︎
asciilifeform: there is, however, a correct part for this : 'PIN diode.' i have an experimental setup with one. at some point we might offer a fg rng module based on it. but not yet.
mircea_popescu: i imagine some of the best electronics for rng would be satellites. measure it straight in the solar panels!
asciilifeform: i.e. theoretically -- yes.
mircea_popescu: i dunno it'd be a small bit of emitter.
asciilifeform: i've given some serious thought to 'what would be highest bit rate honest rng possible with current tech'
mircea_popescu: eh, i don't expect worldwide usage of otp ticker exceeds 1mbps.
mircea_popescu: oh, oh, for YOUR test beds. i see. lol
ben_vulpes: well yes i'm familiar with how the bits are laid down, but i am less familiar with how trb handles it internally
phf: asciilifeform: i think the main objection is that it's a country of millenials, lota pretense, not much doing
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it isn't hard to do, no; i have it (tentatively) working right here. but -- it ~is~ O(n).
asciilifeform: and i dun give a nanofuck that 'nightclubs there are small and crowded'. su circa 1975 had 0 nightclubs and i'd pick it over anywhere in known solar system, yes i would.
phf: i know a few argentinians through yoga jet set crowd, and they are pleasant and fun company if nothing else. i prefer them to americans or germans most of the time
asciilifeform: ( i will say, 0 of the things that drove mircea_popescu barking mad about the place, bother me at all. then again i was there for a week.. ) ☟︎
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-02#1636040 << all i knew about argentina i read in borges, casares and cortazar. i suspect if that argentina ever existed it's long dead ☝︎
ben_vulpes: this is what i get for not shaking the rss reader unread on the second
asciilifeform: i'ma bbl, gotta change gask mask canister; and pet has been 'come to bedroom!111' for 2hrs nao..
asciilifeform: i have plenty of 'c machines' right here that cannot run trb (on account of 'too small addr space' or 'too slow clock', take your pick.)
asciilifeform: not speaking of machines here, i dun have a 'large comp that ain't a c machine' to even test with.
mircea_popescu: i don't see how it'll seriously run on anything besides a c machine for the mid term.
asciilifeform: the drooling idiot's 'i will Define By Implementation!' horror.
mircea_popescu: or i mean, why's it odd.
asciilifeform: but i found out with pen and paper.
asciilifeform: i can't speak for others,
mircea_popescu: i suppsoe you define work differently from me.
asciilifeform: the presumption that i have to prove the negative here, is ludicrous.
asciilifeform: how do i know that it does not also propel the earth along its orbit.
mircea_popescu: i don't see they are distinct.
mircea_popescu: but i don't have enough elements piled up to say what elements i need to say whether this is so or not.
asciilifeform: i also suspect that any system that can be thompsonized, eventually will be (given as it propagates, the transformation is permanent). but that is separate point.
mircea_popescu: this i won't challenge.
asciilifeform: presently i suspect that mircea_popescu has a correct understanding of thompson.
asciilifeform: the one where 'i can read an eprom without a comp. and write it without a comp. now where is your thompson bomb.'
mircea_popescu: obviously, "i choose to live in usg" means... you chose to live in usg. "but i had no other options". hurr.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform elementarily, i saw the item run pre-patched, now i see it run patched.
phf: if i have an open ssh port on my machine that i don't know about, then the attack can happen any time in between "rotor3" released "i decide to install rotor3""
mircea_popescu: either i get to use my tool frist, in which case i can perceive a change ; or else i don't get to use my tool first, in which case -- prediction is necessary.
phf: i agree, but i never said anything in opposition
mircea_popescu: yes, i might. but i don't ~have to~ already be using it.
mircea_popescu: and i won't be using it.
mircea_popescu: because if "patch after used" then it's created a partition which i can use ; and if "predict" then the inf-in-being is rightthere.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can trivially patch gcc such that anything later built that uses any string ops whatsoever, with external inputs, is exploitable.
asciilifeform: ( idiot x86 cpu, means that ~any nontrivial program is multiMB of asm. and hence why i wrote http://www.loper-os.org/?p=256 . )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno who was proposing we don't.
phf: i don't think it's a problem for an arbitrary chain. i was more thinking lizard hitler patches compiler to specifically fuck with rotor3 chain
mircea_popescu: phf the rub is that you're stuck with infinity on one end. you really can't tell in advance what i'll want your compiler to do.
phf: i think the point is that you can't design the process for an arbitraray chain of transformations
mircea_popescu: and the "not necessarily" sinks it, because now i have what to compare, and that's the end of that.
mircea_popescu: hey, i proposed unoptimizing compiler for the role for reasons!
mircea_popescu: need i break out the math for this or is it obvious from stating ?
mircea_popescu: and this sad limitation fundamentally weakens the process, so that if i keep building more complex inputs your ability to make the prediction weakens (by the log of the count, in the pure case)
asciilifeform: i will add to phf's summary -- if the problem afflicted ~strictly~ compilers, it would be quite easy to solve -- write bootstrap in asm. but there is no rule that it has to affect strictly compiler. could just as easily be - say - the ~loader~.
phf: in this case control of the bootstrap machine is at the very least equivalent to "if i compile a source, would the behavior of the binary correspond to what the compiler specification fully or not"
phf: any arbitrary chain of "i compile tcc that i use to compile gcc that i use to compile kernel" can be compromised even if you have full sources, read and understood etc. of tcc, gcc and kernel.
phf: well, i think that the comparison is obscures the actual point
mircea_popescu: please put a terminator when you're done and i'ma do my best to ignore the interlopers!
phf: well, i didn't finish
mircea_popescu: i don't have full control over turbulent flow, nevertheless fly unmolested. and so following.
mircea_popescu: phf this is elementarily false. i don't have full control over eg female biology, enjoy full control over my slavegirls.
trinque: answer's trivially yes, but size of the thing isn't moot. or do I misrepresent phf?
trinque: question is whether "I must ask $guy for $binaryblob" or not.
trinque: nah I hear ya :p
asciilifeform: dun have to take my word for it, can try it yourself, burn a decade like i did.
asciilifeform: trinque: the x64 box that 'you can get the docs for' is , as i learned experimentally and very painfully -- a strictly imagined item
phf: mircea_popescu: i'm not saying that it's going to be infected. i'm saying that's what trust means in a bootstrapping problem. if you're not concerned about that angle, you can relax trust requirements significantly.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if i can't connect comp to $othercomp at bus speed - you lost me.
trinque: yes still have to apply the WoT to whether I can trust the man, but if I *do*, it is possible to be said that the man who started from step 1 had the whole fucker in his head.
asciilifeform: trinque: i stopped working on subj when i utterly failed, after many months of effort, to get an ab initio GB nic driver to exist
trinque: so then, the path is up from there. I fail to see the flaw with it (other than wrong arch)
asciilifeform: trinque: i suspect that almost everyone here has one