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mod6: (I then, in turn, will send the sum over to jurov.)

mod6: BingoBoingo: I'm not sure what the exact protocol here is, but I'm guessing you can pay me if you'd rather, since I ran the auction for the Foundation.

mod6: Alright, well looks I am buying 'Server-A' since there were no bids. Will pay 0.01700000 BTC to jurov (Foundation Treasurer).

mod6: That's fine too. I do actually want the server, so if bidding on it works, I'm fine with that as well.

BingoBoingo: mod6: I don't know that it's a big deal. I strongly suspect you are buying it at the reserve price.

mod6: I guess on the other hand, if the auction goes bid-less, then I'll just buy the machine for the reserve price from the foundation.

mod6: I'm hoping that if I throw in a bid with my mod6_auction IRC registration for auction #1077, this won't be an issue.

billymg: i see how "each line has its own class" is unclear and could read as "has its own _unique_ class" -- should have said "each line has a class based on its type"

diana_coman: ah, I see; right, colours and/or anything else up to the css; works.

billymg: diana_coman: ty. re: the line styling, each line has its own class, so can be trivially styled at the theme level to suit any author's preference. i think it should be up to the blog's author to decide how they present their content (and if they do a horrible job of it, their readership loss is on them too)

diana_coman: np; looks not bad atm though I'd even strikethrough the deleted lines tbh

billymg: ohhhh, i misunderstood mp's comment

billymg: > visual separation via background or similar, sure; but why is more than that needed? << this is the main reason, yes, and i thought that i kept that to a minimum (1px light gray border is all really)

diana_coman: visual separation via background or similar, sure; but why is more than that needed? (and I'm truly asking aka if indeed there's a good reason for it, fine; I just don't currently see the reason)

diana_coman: billymg: I don't get why is the code separated from the rest of the text as such; for one thing the test article there for instance did not work well at all on zoom in/out in my firefox

billymg: also fwiw the width of the viewport i have set in my blog's theme css, not in the plugin. the css in the plugin was left intentionally bare-bones so that users could style it to best fit their own blog layouts

billymg: so i could remove the 1px gray border and increase the width by about 20px so that it goes right to the edges of my blog's content column, but that would still be a viewport, no?

billymg: diana_coman: i'm not sure what you mean. if there's no viewport then the content column of the blog becomes the "viewport" -- e.g. http://trilema.com/2019/forum-logs-for-19-mar-2016/

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 15:04:59 mircea_popescu: the portion "$footnotes_options['superscript'] = (array_key_exists('superscript', $_" is visible on my browser. in order to actually see the "POST)) ? true : false;" portion of it, i'd have to scroll right. however, the right scrollbar is under line 413. if i scroll that far down, the topmost line is in the high 300s, meaning that i can't observe the effect scrolling right has upon line 149.

billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957590 << ahh, i see what you mean. yes that block was particularly bad in the first version, mostly due to the insane default css tab-width setting. it's also something that i tend not to notice because i don't use the scrollbars themselves for scrolling (trackpad on a laptop instead)

billymg: hrm, i'm not seeing anything else in the trilema logs css that would fix it. so the space to the right of the pane is completely empty, not a single line extending past the viewport's edge? is it a lot of empty space to the right (in terms of pixels, inches, or however)?

billymg: but i'm not even sure yet if that's what's causing the ghost scrollbar you're seeing, since you say the text is properly wrapping within the viewport and the scroll appears unnecessary

billymg: ok, so trilema logs uses `word-wrap: break-all` on the entire content column. i used jfw's suggestion of `white-space: pre-wrap` on the code column because it wraps long lines without splitting individual strings

billymg: no, no setting there, so whatever's default (which i believe is overflow: auto)

mircea_popescu: the portion "$footnotes_options['superscript'] = (array_key_exists('superscript', $_" is visible on my browser. in order to actually see the "POST)) ? true : false;" portion of it, i'd have to scroll right. however, the right scrollbar is under line 413. if i scroll that far down, the topmost line is in the high 300s, meaning that i can't observe the effect scrolling right has upon line 149.

mircea_popescu: billymg, in the original example i looked at, line 149 reads : "$footnotes_options['superscript'] = (array_key_exists('superscript', $_POST)) ? true : false;"

billymg: that probably wasn't the best example for "how to manually format your code to fit in the viewport", since the regex line still goes beyond the max column width, but i was mostly trying to make sure i understood what jfw meant by "language-aware indentation" from his editor

billymg: i personally prefer the formatting in the first block because the newlines and indentation make it very easy to see that exactly one condition is being tested (the result of preg_match_all) and that preg_match_all is being passed exactly 4 arguments

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 06:24:08 mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957549 << your example instantly falls down on its own power, btw : think you, to scroll right to see portions of the top lines i now have to scroll down such that the lines in question are off the viewport ? how do i know when i scrolled enough ?

billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957575 << i'm not sure i follow here. you would need to scroll right to read the line with the regex and then back left to continue downward (since i've already updated the formatting of the patch viewer on my site so that lines now wrap to fit the viewport, here is what i was referring to: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=p1jb )

billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957556 << seriously. i was ashamed at myself for how long i'd let it go on. completely wrapped up in the saltmines i deluded myself into thinking i didn't need it

billymg: there should be no more horizontal scrolling, but potentially depending on browser vintage some of the css attributes may not be supported. if it looks off to anyone please let me know along with browser version so i can look into it

billymg: i reduced the tab-width and added the css line wrapping jfw suggested

billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957561 << with this in mind i made some adjustments to the CSS that i think improve the display quite a bit http://billymg.com/2020/01/embedded-vpatch-formatting-for-mp-wp-draft-vpatch-for-review/#S1-L1

mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-28#1957549 << your example instantly falls down on its own power, btw : think you, to scroll right to see portions of the top lines i now have to scroll down such that the lines in question are off the viewport ? how do i know when i scrolled enough ?

mircea_popescu: and i think it's extensible : the same exact process should be applied to all code displayers ; it'll handle comments correctly by default, and people who don't like what it does to their code should write their code otherwise.

mircea_popescu: what i'm saying here to billymg is that he really should look into how trilema flows the content of logs such that they fit in the allocated space, imo that's the only way to go about ths problem

mircea_popescu: there's also the argument that the compiler's the arbiter of code, and if ~it~ doesn't complain then fuck you. but in any case i really am not advanced enough to have the impression i have something to say on that matter.

mircea_popescu: then again have you seen my/his (hey, if dumbass bois can be denoted by complex pronominal constructions of little sense and even less purpose, why can't i be my/his!!!!) bash kb+ one-liners ? the man's insane!

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 02:42:48 jfw: Wrapped lines are something you can get used to perhaps. My historical preference was to pick a fixed width (typically 80) and use the text editor to wrap at that with language-aware indentation, but I understand mircea_popescu to be firmly against this.

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 02:39:59 billymg: i think i lean towards displaying code exactly as it is, even if this means some horizontal scrolling _within_ a pane, rather than machine-wrapped lines (which can be disastrous for legibility)

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-28 01:20:54 billymg: btw in a few i'll be in cr for about a week. this past week i've been setting up travel iron, archival and transfer procedures, etc. the digital part of the move proving much more complicated than the physical

mircea_popescu: bvt, i did see that, but i took it as a simple stop-gap non-answer. it's there serving a political purpose, i don't have cause to take offense for neglect or anything, which i don't ; but it's not ordinarily much of an answer, as there's no proceeding on it.

bvt: mircea_popescu: since this point was raised in #ossasepia, a ping: i did provide the answer (as best as i could) to http://bvt-trace.net/2020/01/re-pbrt/#comment-110

jfw: billymg: realized I might not have quite understood what you're asking - I meant indentation strictly, not adding line breaks, if that's what the linter does. Much harder thing to do mechanically and well.

billymg: that one i formatted manually but in the saltmines had "linter" running which would do the same thing on every file save

jfw: I'll need to duck out of the discussion for a day or two though; been falling behind on my own priorities. Wanted to chime in though since I'd been recently dealing with blogging snippets.

jfw: Wrapped lines are something you can get used to perhaps. My historical preference was to pick a fixed width (typically 80) and use the text editor to wrap at that with language-aware indentation, but I understand mircea_popescu to be firmly against this.

jfw: you're welcome. and yeah, no fully satisfying fix there that I'm yet aware of

billymg: i think i lean towards displaying code exactly as it is, even if this means some horizontal scrolling _within_ a pane, rather than machine-wrapped lines (which can be disastrous for legibility)

billymg: i think the most involved was the one about styling. it's tricky because the ideal width for a column of text in an article is not the same as the ideal width for a pane displaying code

billymg: jfw: thanks for the quick and thorough review. i left a response to your comments

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 17:40:14 trinque: I can almost certainly steal someone's session cookie with a comment if they do what dpb suggests.

billymg: btw in a few i'll be in cr for about a week. this past week i've been setting up travel iron, archival and transfer procedures, etc. the digital part of the move proving much more complicated than the physical

billymg: and still requires the effort. it seems the further i get from the child-me the more aware i am of the child-me that remains

mircea_popescu: so i really wouldn't be worried about any eventual extermination of socialism. if you don't wash you become filthy, and if you don't think you become a socialist. these'll survive, being as they are the names for a lack. lacks are eternal.

mircea_popescu: in fact, i doubt if anything ~but~ socialism is even meaningful to small children, much like nothing but tit is meaningful to even smaller ones. by extension reproduction-as-only-function females, the dedicated mothers, grandmothers etc with no other activities or preoccupations besides the production and early rearing of children are liable to revert to their mindset and worldview.

billymg: hanbot_abroad: if you want to take a look i just published a draft of the vpatch. i think more can be done in terms of cleanup of the old code but i wanted to get some eyes on it before doing another pass

billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957376 << ah crap, sorry i missed this earlier. they are more like constants (for adjusting e.g. whether you want decimal or roman numeral footnote identifiers) that were stored in the db because the average wordpress luser can't be trusted to edit a few variables in a php file and needs checkboxes he can click instead

lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957409 << I think I may have been a little blinded by my desire to not keep you waiting forever for this thing. But after actually talking it through (and getting proper sleep) I can see that trying to ride that rabid horse wasn't going to pay off in the long run

lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957408 << roger that. Yeah, the 'oops suspended' thing was pretty odd. I'm fine just declaring "Shinjiru" a scammer and finding someone else then

dorion: ave1 I hope those above lines didn't make it seem ~more~ overwhleming, but the bottom line I'd like to get across is yeah, there's a mountain of work and while it's all achievable it has to be sustainable. let's work with urguncy, but not haste and make sure our early decisions are properly weighed.

dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957474 - I didn't think I was pushing too hard, given his words. and thanks, I'm up for fun, but sometimes find being serious yields the most fun :)

dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957473 - I admit I'll love he who takes up that cross.

ave1: as for the genesis, I have the first steps, but are a bit overwhelmed with the thing.

ave1: also, don't worry about pushing / asking. I've no problem with that

ave1: dorion, I updated the comment

mircea_popescu: dorion, o damn, you're rifht, i fucked the tags myself. sorry.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-17 12:42:50 ave1: I was genesing it, and will continue to do so. But with feedback in the loop. So, for example, gcc comes with an old STL html documentation tree, can this be dropped? (I would say yes)

ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-17 12:40:02 ave1: As to ownership, I can own gcc 4.9 and would like to work with trinque et. al. on this. The problem here is limited time, so my primary input can be information/communication at this point.

dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957420 - I sure hope not. ave1, if so please say ! I was mainly proceeding on previous talks of ownership and genesis in progress.

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 01:23:15 ave1: dorion, I got the pingpack and the comment went into spam, retrieved...

dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957374 - thank you. looks like I forgot the closing </a> tag on the link prior to the blockquote. do you mind fixing it ?

billymg: mircea_popescu: sorry for that, i didn't mean to be so dramatic with the "fine, i'll just work by myself then" -- i think i'm still working out the balance between check in with a question vs. implement and seek feedback. though on review it seems in this case it was more a matter of the clarity/information density of the question/communication

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 10:54:52 billymg: i will go ahead and remove the notion of options from the footnotes plugin and publish the patch for review. going forward i will make more of these calls on my own and let the published draft patches speak for themselves

billymg: ok, i'll clean up what i have and publish it for review shortly

mircea_popescu: i can see it.

billymg: understood. i think i'm also adapting to the async nature of IRC (you may not hear a response for a few hours, possibly days, so your communication should be clear enough to not require short-loop back-and-forth)

billymg: ah i see how that could read as "add new 'options' 'feature'". in my head i meant it as move from current: default_options -> db -> current_options -> code, to: options -> code

mircea_popescu: billymg i see!

billymg: i will go ahead and remove the notion of options from the footnotes plugin and publish the patch for review. going forward i will make more of these calls on my own and let the published draft patches speak for themselves

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 08:58:29 mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957369 << a png has the disadvantage that i can't tell, for instance, what's a link or how the url looks.

billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957405 << i meant it only as a brief status update, though i should not have included the png without additional context (the line numbers are clickable and the URL anchors are to your spec, e.g. #S2-L10)

billymg: i only thought it necessary to check first in case this code was left around intentionally for some reason i wasn't grasping

billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957403 << and this is the one, in mp-wp, that currently includes code that actively writes options to db. i was proposing to remove any remnants of this completely and only leave what would essentially be some constants at the top of the file (though it sounds like even predefining some of these values at the top of the file is unnecessary and can be removed as well

billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957400 << i was proposing removal of unnecessary code currently existing in mp-wp, not the addition of any. you can see from my patch history and communications in the logs that the removal of all cruft in mp-wp is what i'm working towards

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-27 08:36:22 mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957358 << honestly, no. i think the "option" to "pick the special chars" was useful at the onset, when i was figuring out how the world should work, but double-parens is so well established by now, even etymologically! ("every time you go on a tanget, you have to decide -- is your paranthetical is simple or double?") that it needn't be misrepresented as an optio

billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957382 << this was my feeling as well. i thought i'd check before proceeding to remove the code in case my judgement was incorrect. i will go ahead and remove it

diana_coman: speaking of resurfacing, mocky.org is still down for me; Mocky, am I trying the wrong url/ip?

mircea_popescu: i expect gcc will be the last owned portion, simply because of what horror it is.

mircea_popescu: reading which, i daresay to dorion that "No one yet owns GCC, primarily because I've been waiting to see if ave1 will resurface" is pretty lulzy a cocnept.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-21 04:13:30 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-20#1951637 - ugh, I have them on my list & contacted them via email but they must-account (though they did at least say they weren't all that bothered about actual address iirc).

mircea_popescu: trinque, your blog is such a pain to navigate, dear god. so i want to see your previous article. well... there's no recent articles on the sidebar so i can't just ~see the title~ therefore eschew the need to click things. but let's see the archives... oh oops... this month's archive is entirely identical to you know, your latest article, for the first mile.

mircea_popescu: i walk out of shops / restaurants / whatever ALL the god damn time, for the simplest of reasons, such as "took more than thirty seconds to come for orders".

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 20:03:18 billymg: anyway i have something simple working, only took a few hours http://billymg.com/downloads/mp-wp-embedded-vpatch-snippets.png

mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957369 << a png has the disadvantage that i can't tell, for instance, what's a link or how the url looks.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957363 << i don't understand why you think we care about this. what is this, regress all the things day or something ?

ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 17:40:14 trinque: I can almost certainly steal someone's session cookie with a comment if they do what dpb suggests.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-26#1957358 << honestly, no. i think the "option" to "pick the special chars" was useful at the onset, when i was figuring out how the world should work, but double-parens is so well established by now, even etymologically! ("every time you go on a tanget, you have to decide -- is your paranthetical is simple or double?") that it needn't be misrepresented as an option anymore, a

mircea_popescu: so yeah, i'd very much prefer anyone doing anything for me treat a "suspension" for any term and for any reason as === a lifetime ban of the alleged "provider"/scammer.