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mircea_popescu: "can only vanish along with gopher, omfg who could live in a http world"

mircea_popescu: the whole "will never as long as www" bullshit is just a larger cycle pwnat delusion.

asciilifeform: which is a reasonable answer, but why package it as 'solution'

asciilifeform: that ain't a solution.

a111: Logged on 2017-07-20 18:50 mircea_popescu: you have nodes N1...Nn all behind a nat. Server S popus up and connects them in pairs such that no Ni is without at least one peer. Server S dies. The whole N1..Nn remains connected forever, notwithstanding how any NjNk connections may die.

asciilifeform: can haz, or not, is a question that can be posed. but to give a solution WITH stars, is neither here nor there.

asciilifeform: i want a nonstar topology.

asciilifeform: it ain't a solution if it merely redefines the problem as 'the way life is'

asciilifeform: but if you propose to package it with a hardcoded list of existing peers -- guess what, this is what people traditionally do. they get unplugged, and then whole net is useless.

asciilifeform: it's a clean install.

mircea_popescu: a box you own can connect to the network through the usual process : asks all your peers for peers to connect to.

mircea_popescu: anyway -- the way to collect is that you don't have to pay for a S coming up. just like the car using less gasoline -- you do collect.

asciilifeform: it doesn't provide monetary incentive, any more than today's expense of running a proper node magically transforms into compensation

mircea_popescu: this is not a problem, but a good thing : provides monetary incentive to maintain node connections

mircea_popescu: should any Nq become isolated, it will require a S to be reintroduced.

mircea_popescu: you have nodes N1...Nn all behind a nat. Server S popus up and connects them in pairs such that no Ni is without at least one peer. Server S dies. The whole N1..Nn remains connected forever, notwithstanding how any NjNk connections may die. ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: i assumed D referred to a new node

asciilifeform: if D is already linked to B, it is not a D

mircea_popescu: and wants to be introduced to A also.

asciilifeform: and it can't because D has no way to contact the A and B pair .

mircea_popescu: ie, D then asks B, "what about A ?" and B provides ip and notification to A.

mircea_popescu: B can now become C for D ; and A can now become C for Z.

mircea_popescu: A and B can now connect.

mircea_popescu: suppose you have nodes A, B behind a nat. suppose A and B run gossipd, and have been introduced to C. A aiming to connect to B or vice-versa for any reason is accomplished through : A asks C for an ip for B. C provides A with ip for B and B with notification of A's request (at the least, its ip).

asciilifeform: mno. if there is a massive class of boxes that cannot plug directly into each other -- stars.

mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEZLXpyXcAACS6k.jpg the dood has a pretty decent twitter.

asciilifeform: i have a theory which might, potentially, lead to a pill, will put it here slightly later

mircea_popescu: a solution to the problem would actually help trb too

asciilifeform: the only quasi-reliable method ( 'udp hole punch' ), used by , e.g., 'skype', STILL requires a 3rd party non-natted box to broker the connection ☟︎

mircea_popescu: i suppose this may be a "yes, meanwhile all", haven't looked.

a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 16:32 asciilifeform: the real usgtronic gem here is that there's massive existing investment in 'this is a transform of SOME dna sequence, SOMEWHERE, now tell me which' hardware

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-20#1687147 << twasn't a joke, evidently the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686643 is right on point. ☝︎☝︎

trinque: right, so usg crumbles, erdrogan or whoever throws a big neo-caliphate party, invites everyone to go israel-stomping. russia and china collectivey "meh" and lol at the US losing a colony ☟︎

asciilifeform: not while it remains a muppet of a living usg, lol

trinque: my amateur eye sees, at least, a region stacked for a rough war.

pete_dushenski: mojahed runs winbloze... on phone. or his boss does. or his gf does. or the new recruit does. "coming to a pocket near you" (tm)

pete_dushenski: this is post-nation-state world, cyber-d and a little bit of land is the best you can hope for.

asciilifeform: afaik they still dun have a, e.g., self-made fighter jet. ☟︎

pete_dushenski: just because you're eating the liver, doesn't mean you won't find another source of food when it's gone or as soon as the aging father finally croaks. but this is a stretch analogy.

asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: 'doesn't need no moar' is immaterial -- just like a freshly cut out liver is still trying, best as it can, to do its enzymatic business as if nothing happened, same -- reichs

a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 03:18 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680532 << at one time we had a fella ( pete_dushenski ? ) embark on a 'major life and times of the l0g' thing. what became of this ?

pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680613 << i undertook 'yeshiva' which didn't explicitly involve log highlighting and dissection even if it sometimes turned out that way. i should actually make a separate category on the ol' blog for #t logs levitan'd ☝︎

asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: modern-day .il is a parasitic rider on usg -- and not merely in the well-known 'free money' sense, but also in that the ~only exports are 'intellectual property' racket, which rides on usg's patent enforcement shakedown ☟︎

pete_dushenski: lol gotta love that bitbet is back... o brother what a gongshow.

pete_dushenski: ofc, but only 24 hours in a day

pete_dushenski: or maybe translation is a project for otherwise loose cannons (eg. adlai )

asciilifeform: unrelatedly, i noticed pete_dushenski had a piece re israel -- were you awake for the hagana thread ?

pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: blackzilla is enjoying the seasonal weather more than i'm enjoying the seasonal smoke. being downwind of the massive bc fires isn't doing wonders for the ol' respiratory tract. (waking up coughing, etc.) . needless to say i've a newfound appreciation for the sorry denizens of chinese mega-cities. it's one of those "you never know what you've got until it's gone" (tm) things ☟︎

asciilifeform: it is also a problem pertinent to, e.g., mircea_popescu's 'uci' and for that matter all botnet

asciilifeform: ( for n00bz : NAT is why there was never a fully 'p2p' w4r3ztron )

asciilifeform is mildly surprised that there isn't, as of yet, such a thing

asciilifeform: jurov: next, clearly, a usgtronic, 'responsible-disclosing' phuctor

jurov: https://www.nist.gov/programs-projects/nist-randomness-beacon "NIST is implementing a source of public randomness."

deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/07/19/this-is-a-story/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - This is a story.

mircea_popescu: it was a great accomplishment for a bunch of people who had a very direct experience of the hardness of soil, worked with hand-made tools pulled by sick horses and pregnant wives -- and i mean this literally.

mircea_popescu: twasn't, per se, "gotta have... corn! as far as the eye can see" in any way or in any sense other than the 1950s romanians being impressed with the ro commies "a LINE OF TRACTORS! 100 deep!!!"

mircea_popescu: "I'm now an HTML coder at a startup in San Francisco. The “World Wide Web” has enabled me to crawl out of my debt-hole and bootstrap myself into the lower middle class. For the first time in my adult life, I can afford to <b>eat</b> in restaurants where I don't<b> work.</b" << if anyone's curious or keeping score, THIS is what impels all the dizzy dorks of today. their very own VHS tapes, if you will.

mircea_popescu: cheap to make, pretty much everyone with a chem plant made some. which is how the soviets ended up using it.

mircea_popescu: arguably won a few battles in south pacific theatre.

mircea_popescu: (and ftr, the usians had been whining about it just about since ww2. rando with a "book" on the topic is about as relevant as pink.)

mircea_popescu: o look, wikipedia manages a very uscentric view of things and items lol. mk.

asciilifeform: fukushima does 0 on the timescale a fish lives on.

mircea_popescu: well, we ate them, we fukushima'd them, for a while we also ddt'd them. we still plastic slush them, it's a large ocean.

mod6: i suppose the only non-toxic way to get rid of the nearby mosquitoes is to buy up all the surrounding properties and then take a flame thrower to the lawns.

mircea_popescu: anyway. the problem with ddt was bioaccumulation. it was the original spark for a lot of the current understanding of "why it is bad to eat agroindustrial shit". ddt is weakly toxic, but it and metabolites accumulate, get stored in fat, etcetera.

mircea_popescu: and a little teratogenic.

mircea_popescu: (o look, even with inept 90s "web drm" technologees!) http://www.electricsheepcomix.com/almostguy/images/vansex_color.gif << such an inconvenient fuck position. you really gotta be a virgin to think this is where it's at.

asciilifeform saw as a kid

mircea_popescu: how am i gonna get a wasp nest in orbit.

asciilifeform: 'wasps? no prob, open the airlock a bit'

mircea_popescu: sounds about right for a raccoon actually.

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'tis only a stopgap while i deploy rentier's capital

mircea_popescu: if its a paper wasp colony, destroing the nest is usually enough.

mircea_popescu: wasp stings are actually a health benefit, within bounds.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform while that is true, it's also not a proof ddt is safe. it's not particularly safe.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: now take a minute to clench your teeth and remember that ddt was once sold, fiddycents a pound, in corner store.

ben_vulpes: in other woman stories, the wasps chewed a hole through the ceiling into the nursery last night

mircea_popescu: anyway, they never specify because they never give a shit. you're generally supposed to have a new book you're trying to promote or such.

asciilifeform: asciilifeform was at one time invited to... microshit campus, to give a talk ( about what? never specified )

asciilifeform: 1989 issue, p.25, ad: 'Cray on a chip. ... The computing power of a Cray supercomputer will be accessible to PC owners by the end of this year thanks to the Intel i860 Megaprocessor. ...'

mircea_popescu: i suppose the first time black fucktoy whispers nonsense in the bedroom it's rather condiment than a reason to flay her kind alive.

asciilifeform: you wouldn't invite a walrus to your table either ( other than perhaps as main course )

phf: also vaguely related, a comic about "cyber-" culture, and the early (i.e. pre-mondo) valley excitement. i found it to be highly entertaining when viewed through the tmsr prism. http://www.electricsheepcomix.com/almostguy/

a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 17:06 asciilifeform: not long ago i saw a photo of some american mega-rich d00d, forget who, and nobody cares, his refrigerator, was full of synthetic 'budveiser' beer

a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 22:21 mircea_popescu: no, you gotta get a credit card to buy more cars with.

mircea_popescu: no, you gotta get a credit card to buy more cars with. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: laugh if you will, but the ENTIRE experience of wealth ustard enjoys is exactly this and nothing else. from the kid begging his parents for a lambo truck / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s8XilZa2WY all the way up to the fiat captains of industry, stuck between being "too big to fail" and being FED-fed anyway.

shinohai: My God that thread is a lulzfest of begging redditards

mircea_popescu: "someone stole a dumpster ($32M) from my driveway"

BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Best part, the cop is a somali

trinque drives a black gas guzzling 8cyl truck through 100 degree heat, working on that megawatt

BingoBoingo: !~later tell pete_dushenski How is Blackzilla treating you? Is motor adequately cooled to handle a tortuous Canadian July?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686799 << the proposition is problematic. hitler was, for all intents and purposes, a farm chicken with beak sawed off. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: and this is not limited to cpus. it is re evertything. "either your videocard can be asm'd into utility or else it is not actually a video card" "but it works in windows!" "so does your mother."

deedbot: whaack rated shinohai 1 << qntra writer, helped me a bit with my spanish pronunciation

asciilifeform: ( nao not everyone, turns out, has a standard ada. but this is fixable. )

mircea_popescu: because yes, once http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686858 is done "portability" becomes a very different item than the beast it is today. ☝︎

asciilifeform: but also has effect of making dispensing with libc a reasonably easy proposition

asciilifeform: i have 'p' structured such that all it wants i/o-wise is a 'getbyte' and 'putbyte' that operator can replace with whatever ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: all it really wants libc for is memcpy() etc. and i/o. total of maybe 6 functions. they really ought to be a separate asm thing, linked optionally and separately.