577700+ entries in 0.352s
jurov: they saved on high
tech
to buy grain, i can esily see it
mircea_popescu: generally,
the leadership of "socii", ie "allies" ie vassals is worse
than at
the center.
mircea_popescu: jurov czechoslovakia isn't soviet russia
tho or what are we
talking about here
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jurov: well, clearly
they had
their priorities
jurov: it was cuz
they bought grain instead?
jurov: my grandpa was
technical manager in 1980s and explained
the hoops
they had
to jump
to buy any equipment from
the west
jurov: even if
that meant debt?
mircea_popescu: by 1980
the globalisation of
trade makes such approach useless.
jurov: yes, ussr imports in
the 1980s.
there was modern agriculture and irrigation available
then, i suppose?
mircea_popescu: jurov and if you also count greece as part of europe,
they had a famine
tambien.
mircea_popescu: nah,
the famines were criminal particularly because stalin's soviets were net exporters.
jurov: from
the west, even.
jurov: afaik ussr had
to import grain *consistently*
mircea_popescu: whioch reminds me. asciilifeform you know
the irish "fear gortha" ?
mircea_popescu: <jurov> and
there was no such famine in eastern eutope outside russia inn 20th century << silesia famine in 1850 ? hongerwinter ?
mircea_popescu: that's
the clear and incontrovertible proof
that mechanized agriculture wasn't available even beyond
the pale. let alone inside russia proper.
mircea_popescu: <jurov> and it was *after* mechanized agriculture was available << it was not at all available. do you know what
the
tachanka was ? Makhno's
thing.
mircea_popescu: <bagels7>
they didnt have
tchonology like
today? <<<
they didn't need it, because
they weren't nearly as many.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> detectably plenty of starvation in ancient world, even with 'sound money' and good management << quite. famine is a great motivator, and
to be honest i do not see why half
the population should not at all points be hungry.
mircea_popescu: the substance of
the squal of
the little girl confronted with
the underside of a large boulder exposed
to air
mircea_popescu: the entire "putin doesn't understand how
thwe world works" and "oh horror x! oh horror y!" is really
the voice of a deconstructed postmodern intellect confronted with
the sheer obscenity of reality.
mircea_popescu: this sort of ablated hipsterism is what passes for strategic
thinking in
the us.
mircea_popescu: and nobody could conceivably wish
to do anything *seriously*
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "but nobody would dare sink a carrier, because
THEN ITD MEAN
THEYRE SERIOUS ANBD FOR REAL!!!!"
jurov: i'm confudes now...if its' a good
thing, you should
then admire
the US for its gulag system
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yet
the us seems
to be bringing it a whole lot
these days lol
undata: mircea_popescu:
the southern cock will rise again!
mircea_popescu: undata just look at how
the southerners were coerce
to become yanks after
the war.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at least,
this;'d be
the "most favourable possible ulterior retrospective construction"
undata: asciilifeform: I see
that; in
the US many
tactics were used, among
them property
tactics, etc.,
to coerce people into
the cities
mircea_popescu: if he makes it whole and says "without
the gulags, from congo
to CAR"
mircea_popescu: because if you don't
then by your definitions eugenics, and if you do wtf you doing in slovakia instead of say b-a.
undata: were gulags needed
to organize peasants into industrial workers?
mircea_popescu: jurov do you believe
that out of
two possible situations,
the one with more people in it is always best ?
undata: I suppose it depends on
the situation as
to how much of a display is needed
undata: mircea_popescu: I see
the point about a genuine display of power
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what is us academia if not exactly
this ?
ben_vulpes: undata: if you're
taking home more
than 16.5K as an individual, it's not cheaper.
mircea_popescu: by definition you know ? if you're not hurtin yourself
then why wouldn't it be fake.
mircea_popescu: <undata>
this
to me sounds like a very wealthy man lighting his wealth on fire
to display sovereignty << afaik
the only possible honest signal is exactly
this.
jurov: asciilifeform: here
they did like kolkhozs
to an amount bacuse it wasn't done so violently
undata: this
to me sounds like a very wealthy man lighting his wealth on fire
to display sovereignty
undata: surely you need *some* population or what's
this sovereignty over?
mircea_popescu: <cazalla> bagels7:
the beatings were way worse
than any bdsm "master" i had <<< lol same << lol wait, bagels7 is into bdsm ?
undata: mircea_popescu: not-maximizing isn't
the same as actively grinding away at your population until as jurov points out
the numbers start
to really dwindle
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> jurov: maximizing meat now? << as far as i can
tell,
there's a certain subgroup of
transhumanists for whom even
the faintest hint of discussion as
to whether rivers of meat is
the correct minimaxing is "eugenics" which is
to say
their local equivalent of "fascist" ie, very bad mkay.
jurov: yes,
that's what i mean
jurov: lenin could do
that in 1918
jurov: yes it is obvious.
there was no famine in
the 1990s only because govt came
to senses and gave people
their own soil
jurov: asciilifeform just keeps coming with excuses why his drunkard compatriots can't fend for
thmeselves so well
undata: this comes up a lot in here; why does
that follow?
undata: asciilifeform:
that a sovereign can do whatever he pleases doesn't necessarily proceed
to "therefore he stole all my
things and left me in mud"
jurov: germans made
tanks
too, and did not even had so much arable soil.. no famines
there,
too
jurov: and
there was no such famine in eastern eutope outside russia inn 20th century
undata: jurov: my folks grow enough
to have everything
they need, and
the food
they produce is delicious
jurov: if
they could make
tanks, why not
tractors?
undata: one of
those being fucking until
the pile of human flesh I've produced is visible from space
undata: asciilifeform:
there are innumerable
things I could do in
the present moment
that I don't because
they don't seem sensible