569400+ entries in 0.372s
undata: I
think you're right; it won't be a great
thing abroad
to be or have been an american
undata: argie let nazis retire
there; what's wrong with a few 'muricans? :D
undata: maybe so, but I'd rather have something
to struggle
towards
undata: asciilifeform: I just want somewhere
to sit and watch
the bonfire
undata: I can; as for
the rest, natural selection's a bitch
nubbins`: seems
to me
there's not a whole lot you can do
to avoid either
undata: seems
to me
that
there are
two circumstances
to avoid: 1) being crunched under
the US gov's ever-increasing bureaucratic mass 2)
the skullfucking
that is due
to
the US when
there's an entity powerful enough
to perform it
undata: or hell, loot
the nearest shoe store for some nikes if
that's all you can muster
undata: +asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: most u.s. subjects don't have an obvious rational action
to follow
the awakening of 'aha so i'm living in a zoo run by demented vivisectionists, now i need
to...' << make money and gtfo in my case
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nubbins`: altho i did roast a pork
tenderloin
today
mircea_popescu: for
thatmatter, even 30 years ago, "the us" aka "america" was something you'd have had
to be chomsky not
to believe in.
mircea_popescu: none of
them actually had
to hang
themselves for
this lapse in
their youthful judgement,
mircea_popescu: plenty of women woke up one day
to discover
they married an asshole over
the endless count of years.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> -
that is, who do you wish
to see win? <<< seems rather uncontroversial by now
that
the us is a rogue state. at least
to my eyes. but in
two years of
this we've yet
to meet somerone who actually believes
the us
to be anything but a criminal organisation.
mircea_popescu: <mats> in my opinion,
this is a fundamentally irreconcilable difference between govt agents and intel agents << idealised intel agents. like idealised doctors or lawyers, doing "liberal professions". like naggum's idealised "real programmers". problem is,
these people don't exist in
the counts you might wish
to employ.
they exist in short supply.
mircea_popescu: <mats> i get
the impression
that most americans accept as fact
that
torture is ineffective << for sure. do you know what else
they accept ?
that "free markets don't work" and
that "socialism is democracy" and all sorts of similar
things. do you know why
they accept
them ? because
they want
to believe. 16 yo 7/10 valley girl also believes she's "beautiful" and
that "she really has a chance". why wouldn't she, as far as
mircea_popescu: it's like saying "wifebeating works as a matrimonial pacification
tool".
mircea_popescu: mats> relying on a source
that's been
tortured, now,
thats not useful, but
thats why you verify
the information... << it's complicated. generally, by
the
time you have
to
torture people you're dead in
the water.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, hence all
teh soviet shiteating jokes.
mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> is it weird << notrly. like you know, if you hear a "sailor"
talk about "Ships falling off
the earth margin" you can also suspect
they're
the 15yo fibbing variety of seawolf.
assbot: Logged on 06-12-2014 05:01:41; asciilifeform:
these folks will eventually build arse-mouth systems and
try
to eat
their own shit.
mircea_popescu: "we are
the clueless horde because everyone is clueless because we are clueless because everyone is clueless because
that's all
that exists because
that's what we are because
that's what one should be because
that's what one can be because
that's what we
think because
that's what we are because
that's what we'ver seen because..."
mircea_popescu: "When
those voices are
the only ones heard, it makes wider adoption and acceptance less likely." <<< so says... who ?
mircea_popescu: <Pierre_Rochard> for many of
the redditards it is a ~feels~ social movement, rather
than a macro-economic force of nature << like everything else. like,
that's all
they got.
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mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'The CIA did not hold any detainees after April 2008.' <<< "the fed won't monetise
the debt"
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD
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mats: hows it feel
to be a lamb in a den of killers?
mats: too much noise in
the signal. picked up
the wrong dudes.
mats: its actually a humorous indictment of
the CIAs HUMINT operations,
that
they weren't able
to get useful information from
the rendered
mats: then you kill all of
them.
undata: and when
the agents
traffic enough cocaine
to
threaten your power over
them?
mats: sounds like a recipe for high
turnover and ineffective field work.
mats: you're going
to ask an intel agent in
the field
to handicap himself, at
the very real risk of being killed because of morals imposed by someone outside of
the game?
mats: in my opinion,
this is a fundamentally irreconcilable difference between govt agents and intel agents
undata: mats:
then
they are free
to seek
their own interest;
they're not slaves
undata: there's a distinction here between
the guy
that forces you
to your desk
to work, and
the guy
that jiggles your hand as you
try
to write
mats: and once you get down
to
the fundamentals, agents in
the field are basically unaccountable
undata: that's nice rhetoric, but
that's about all
mats: there's only one rule of law, and its wielded at
the point of a weapon
undata: this is not
tantamount
to saying society should be hugs and kisses for all
undata: too busy checking over
their shoulder
mats: PR backlash blah blah, anyone with a mild degree of intelligence understands
this is how
the game is played
mats: as far as anyone is realistically concerned,
they are
the second government.
undata: asciilifeform: right,
that's more correct
mats: people performing
these
things are ideally in
the field
undata: not at
the whim of some unaccountable second govt
undata: even
torturing "folks" if necessary
undata: I want
to live in a society where everything is done according
to law
mats: you
think
they're running a day care or something?
mats: any effective intelligence agency ought
to be prepared
to
torture a source.
undata: mats: lets clarify
things; do you
think we benefit from having a CIA
that does so?
mats: i get
the impression
that most americans accept as fact
that
torture is ineffective
undata: rather
than "do we want
to live under
the fear of a bureaucracy
that
tortures people at will?"
mats: this is what happens when you let HUMINT fall
to
the wayside
undata: mats: makes me wonder if
that's
the
tactic: making
the conversation about "Is
torture effective?"
dub: which might be
the point?
dub: applying it
to
turban wearers at random may not be
mats: relying on a source
that's been
tortured, now,
thats not useful, but
thats why you verify
the information...
punkman: not if you are
torturing random derps
though
mats: anyway,
this is probably obvious
to everyone, but it should be voiced anyway:
torture is definitely useful as an intelligence
tool
mats: they speak about a hundred english words between
them, so i doubt
they've been bought by USG.
mats: danielpbarron: my grandparents watched
the second plane hit from a high rise several blocks from
the
towers
mats: I'm really irritated by
this nonsense in
the media about "torture is useless as an intelligence
tool"
Pierre_Rochard: thestringpuller: because people like
the author
think Bitcoin _actually_ is a ponzi scheme and
that
they have
to help attract greater fools, so public relations / appearance/ etc are super important
to -sell- bitcoin
to
the unsuspecting masses
undata: is it hard
to believe
that
they could've both been hit by planes and demoed?
undata: I'm under
the impression
that many people in adjacent buildings saw it happen