tmsr - Search: i

57100+ entries in 0.498s

asciilifeform: the rest, i have nfi

spyked: anyway, I ordered three icesticks (because free shipping, and would rather pay for extra hardware than shipping)

spyked: this is gonna be fun. asciilifeform, I haven't looked into hw since 2010, so there might be stupid questions coming your way once I start playing with this. btw, I don't mind getting my hands dirty with soldering, I just have very rudimentary tools for now.

asciilifeform: i will be phasing xilinx out of my product line entirely, also.

asciilifeform: i last leeched the xilinx hog in 2011 and don't intend to ever update.

asciilifeform: ( but, i will point out, is MUCH roomier than the xc9572 cpld used in FUCKGOATS )

spyked: so from ^ the "ultra"er models don't work with the open source toolchain? I was looking at one of the breakout boards earlier

asciilifeform: spyked: for n00bs i recommend 'icestick'

spyked: asciilifeform, was going to ask. is there particular ice40 you're recommending? it might be a while until I get one but I looked over the list and they had various types (ultralite etc.)

phf: right, i didn't even comment on that aspect, because everything should be obvious from that article i linked.

asciilifeform: incidentally in as far as i can tell, d00d was solzhenitsining for decade+, and very actively Musting Die from a very defensible imho pov

phf: i suspect there's still some amount of conformance with GOST. i personally think it could be a good practice if done right, but reading some usg account of it i can see how it can be turned into bureaucratic money maker

asciilifeform: phf: i am not convinced that cpu arch CAN be improved on incrementally.

phf: i should clarify that rather architecture can be improved ~upon~ incrementaly

phf: i still stand by this point, but with a disclaimer. i think that one of the advantages early hackers had was that they were working from inside their systems. linus was dogfooding linux, symbolics were using every lisp machine at their disposal to build better lisp machines. i think there's inherent folly in planning a revolution from the comfort of our bourgeois machines :p

asciilifeform: sane comp is to be a fully granular description. i.e. if you can still get transistors, you can still build ENTIRE THING. no exceptions.

phf: now i didn't find out about race conditions myself, that data point came from dks, they discovered race conditions as part of the emulator rewrite, but they have the benefit of having access to the necessary low level bits ☟︎

phf: i spent (mostly another whisperer and myself did) on getting vlm stable, and i'm unconvinced that some of the issues we encountered were purely "buggy vlm". there is, for example, a crash in floating point instruction that happens when you load document examiner on stock piratebay opengenera. i have no explanation for it still, because vlm code ~seems to do the right thing~. there are other similar instances ☟︎☟︎

spyked: I'm still in the process of grokking the DMA+interrupts discussion.

spyked: asciilifeform, lol, yeah, that's why I gave MIPS as an example. but actually, MIPS on FPGA + MIPS Lisp machine implementation might be more work than starting from CADR. that is, not even accounting for RAM and peripherals

spyked: asciilifeform, I see. I thought this would be a way to make the problem easier in the short/medium term. but I've had to deal with being at the mercy of X myself at another level so this makes sense.

asciilifeform: spyked: i spend 7+ yrs on this approach, and my verdict is that 'middle way' is a DEAD END

valentinbuza: hi spyked. I just read the MP blog a week ago :) saw your old comments

asciilifeform: spyked: i tried this, it's a dead end because papers over idiot hardware rather than replaces. and does not yield hardware sovereignty-- you are at the mercy of the chipmaker's continued making of 100% compatible cpu & peripherals

spyked: asciilifeform, what do you think of minimal baremetal implementation of Lisp (RISC assembly only) on something like a MIPS core? I might be thinking this in too abstract terms, it's definitely not that easy. but I'm trying to find a middle way between working FPGA Lisp machine and Lisp on unix. ☟︎

spyked: was trying to get a perspective on things. I haven't dabbled in hardware since 3rd uni year (that was almost 8 years ago). and even then... well, I got a lot to learn.

spyked: although I'm expecting the code to have its own hacks

a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 11:33 spyked: also, is there any worth in trying to "physicalize" the virtual lisp machine stuff? genera runs on that from what I read.

spyked: also, is there any worth in trying to "physicalize" the virtual lisp machine stuff? genera runs on that from what I read. ☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-19 23:57 phf: fwiw, if the goal is to put an existing lisp machine onto an fpga, then i don't think macivory is a particularly good target. the goal would be to run Genera, which is severely lacking sources for critical components.

spyked: phf, asciilifeform: re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1701146 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701180 <-- thanks for all the refs. my initial plan was to start from whatever SECD papers I could find and better understand architecture specifics. ☝︎☝︎

mircea_popescu: and in other "us entrepreneurship" aka "the incredible productive assets and unlimited human ingenuity existing in America?", i give you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyw3lZ8Jw7E

mircea_popescu: i thought that was the whole slippery point of zher, that there's a hole not a line.

phf: in other words i'm slowly discovering that there's life west of moscow, but before you hit berlin :o

phf: well, tbh i only just learned that the two knew each other. evola is mentioned in eliade's books, but only in connection to his books on subj, like "the yoga of power" and his study of pali canon

mircea_popescu: anyway, eliade's iron guard affiliations are very far from a little known fact. i'd wager more people know about that than ever read any of his books, let alone understood such.

a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 03:05 phf: fare: "I'm all for supporting old implementations (we support Genera, furgossake), but that's very different from supporting an old ASDF. ASDF was designed to be self-upgradable precisely so that the way to deal with an old ASDF is to upgrade it."

phf: fare: "I'm all for supporting old implementations (we support Genera, furgossake), but that's very different from supporting an old ASDF. ASDF was designed to be self-upgradable precisely so that the way to deal with an old ASDF is to upgrade it." ☟︎

phf: i went reading slime/swank pull request conversations on github (i know my mistake!) and it's all the usual wreckers there.

Birdman: ah yeah, did i request that, i dont know why i would lol, its the winners of the hands i need to de clutter

Birdman: yeah for some reason i think it lists the blind number instead of just what the blind is. that must have been the one million and change blind posted

mike_c: asciilifeform - closed turd client was necessary because I didn't think this would even work, and it was one time thing. so not worth investing time in vs. spinning up VM and then destroying it.

mike_c: I can't actually fix the numbers for you, because the numbers are wrong. Note in the example how it says the small blind was 1 million and change.

mircea_popescu: r0nin- let's put it this way : i'll take an us author seriously ONLY AFTER he has underage porn on display somewhere.

r0nin-: well i believe the content is available off amazon too

r0nin-: phf: i thought dark enlightenment completely discredited itself, by trying to julius evola while neckbeard

mircea_popescu: that's the extent of familiarity, i had to review the god-awful prose of the interwar imbeciles as part of writing the programme.

mircea_popescu: ah. i tried to (intellectually, and financially) sponsor the "romanian new right". they weren'tr capable of digestion.

mircea_popescu: i don't get it, her solution is to not leave the house ?

valentinbuza: I say that ACS (Automatica si calculatoare) did not have a crypto course until last year.

mircea_popescu: ah i see.

valentinbuza: I have some clarification about choudary dude. He is a recent professor (1 year) at our university. The course is called "advanced" because from this year onwards will be advanced material.

phf: !~later tell spyked damn you, i spent an entire night playing slither.io

mircea_popescu: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e7Vp6Pa00SM/UZvLa8CFMLI/AAAAAAAACWU/NJf-WVxqyD4/s1600/UK+Warwick+Castle+021.jpg << example i've personally inspected.

phf: but i agree on the overall points, though moving forward from cadr wouldn't be so much backporting, as "writing in the missing bits"

asciilifeform: phf: i haven't tried the fpga one

asciilifeform: i.e. baked around various arithm chips available at the time, rather than raw transistor

asciilifeform: phf: i'd rather spend next decade reversing the bolix firmware, than wintel liquishit

mircea_popescu: i c

phf: i'm actually not even sure how much code is there, but what's critically missing is the low level bits that talk to hardware

phf: yeah, i fat fingured enter before making the entire point

phf: it's well documented (in before "ascii: i have all 12 books on shelves right here"

phf: no, what i'm saying, so you have your ivory running on hardware, now what? you can start writing systems lisp from scratch or you boot genera.

mircea_popescu: i was just providing him entry points

phf: fwiw, if the goal is to put an existing lisp machine onto an fpga, then i don't think macivory is a particularly good target. the goal would be to run Genera, which is severely lacking sources for critical components. ☟︎

BingoBoingo: !~later tell r0nin- I don't talk privates with stangers

jurov: https://i.imgur.com/KzTKHfO

mircea_popescu: if i decide to reconfigure my car into an electric generator or a super strenght fridge or lawn mower or helicopter, I SHOULD BE FUCKING ABLE TO.

spyked: yeah, but must still be of some use though. I don't know if there's even a genuine Lisp machine in ro

mircea_popescu: spyked see, the thing with orc lands is that they have this. borz, chechen made smg. the egyptians made engine parts to VISUAL spec, by hand. i saw this. guy here offered to produce a replacement pressure hose for me, by visual inspection.

spyked: asciilifeform, I'll ask around, see if I can dig stuff out of the archives (assuming there are archives)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i could've sworn we did borz

diana_coman: mircea_popescu> romania's computer independence program huh. <- most of the old profs at UPB that I still got to know had worked on some parts of that from what I gathered

spyked: it's cheap enough to hire a carpenter that I didn't need to buy ikea. and yeah, it's probably cheaper

asciilifeform: spyked: i'd be curious to see the ro lm

mircea_popescu: and i bet you have ikea shit within eyesight right now.

mircea_popescu: i assemble my computer out of parts to no great sufferance, and get for my trouble a much better computer than any of the pre-made buying dorks.

spyked: mircea_popescu, I agree. do you mean"the fridge" as in somewhat close to the platonic fridge?

spyked: diana_coman, but giumale retired. btw, I know he made a Lisp machine clone back in the 80s. the hardware might be lying around somewhere in the faculty.

mircea_popescu: software is the worst offender here, but hardware is also pretty bad. consider -- i don't want to buy "A fridge", i should buy standardized compressor units, and so on. why do i want "the fridge" ? there's no need to debate "whirlpool" vs "obamacare". compare discrete items.

spyked: hi diana_coman. somewhat. I resigned a year ago, but I'm around for various teaching stuff and wasting time on PhDing.

spyked: I resisted many attempts to turn the "programming paradigms" (Lisp/Haskell/Prolog) course into a Java thing.

spyked: anyway, the one and only advantage of UPB CS department is that for now it still has the resources to bring up smart people, most of which unfortunately turn into goog/fb/whatever employees. I don't think that's gonna last for long though. wish it did, but...

spyked: mircea_popescu, Poli survives on local socialist democrats. I don't know how to compare those guys to West pantsuit.

spyked: sure thing. I can reference the Trilema posts on crypto

mircea_popescu: spyked anyway, if in your estimation guy's not an idiot invite him over next you see him, i want to personally cuss him out for that terrible "advanced" crypto thing wtf is it.

spyked: he's okay, we chatted a few times, but I don't know him very well. it's hard to judge most people in the faculty higher than by "mint rubber or not", and he's pretty hard working at least.

mircea_popescu: the problem with getting "engineers" to construct proofs in this vein is that engineers have too much monkey in them. "doctor, doctor, if i shove it in this way it works!"

spyked: he has a start-up where he employed an army of "proof engineers" to work on systems verification. I'm pretty skeptical about it, since I tried very hard to understand his papers some years ago and now it's completely paged out of my brain

mircea_popescu: no, i have a weak heart.

spyked: which was discussed here before, yeah. not new I guess

spyked: yeah, it was very easy to conflate "list can be described as either nil, or pair between something and a list" and "list is defined as". I could rewrite sometime if you think it's worth it; I don't think it is, I was just trying to show how reasoning about software isn't trivial even when you have a framework for that, let alone when void *p = ...;

mircea_popescu: but in my experience, generally people take refuge in minutia when scared of biting the problem. wtf difference does it make how i construct an enumerated set, maybe i push icecubes off the table into the paper bin with my penis.

spyked: hm. you mean, there's a long way from "enumerated set" to 1:2:[] which I skipped?

mircea_popescu: are you aware i think your "formal" model is a piece of shit from paragraph one ? ☟︎

spyked: mircea_popescu, no. I know Inria guys made a verified compiler. with the caveat of "abstract nonsense". anyway, tmsr search yields stuff :)

spyked: anyway, I'm interested in getting a Lisp machine up. also, getting a trb node up once I get some hardware for it

spyked: true, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. and I can do it incrementally (the current blog works. it lacks comments, that may piss people off, but it's not like I get too many readers)

spyked: I don't like Wordpress, so I decided to roll my own

mircea_popescu: right, it's a holiday, i intuited.