log☇︎
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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand not; we're at http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866454 . ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 17:04 mircea_popescu: in short, because this winding discussion risks overwhelming buffers, the salient points are a) that i'm not ready to go to war over serpent, it's a meh-maybe item ; b) that building our spearheads around items we're not willing to die for may be how the converse of http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bitcoin+corrupts altogether.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 16:48 mircea_popescu: i am experimenting with serpent, and yes it's borne of that ancient discussion of ours, but i'm nowhere near-ready to bake it into "this is tmsr secure disk"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cuz it ~is~
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yer xoring overlapped copies, remember
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what would mean 'equiprobable' ? they're a 1:1 mapping
a111: Logged on 2018-10-29 15:53 mircea_popescu: it is entropy* conserving, where entropy* is a special "entropy-colored-for-meaning", but this isn't useful.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it dun even seem like we need exotica here
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it has a random component, it aint reversible, how wouldja reverse it ? with time machine ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're reversible !
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1/3
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not only were you right, but i just about have a handle on deriving the factual key bitness of serpent..
asciilifeform: mebbe i'm thick and it's a trivial provable ? ( diana_coman ? mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: somewhat related observation: designers of blockciphers are fixated on 'what if known plaintext block', but it is not clear to me why this has to be a living problem when you can fill up 1/4 or 1/2 or whatever of block with rng
a111: Logged on 2018-10-29 00:44 mircea_popescu: anyway, the likely reason they don't publish scratchwork is that before republic, nobody had any fucking idea how to do intellectual work. q is a lot like asking "why would doctors not wash hands". because before someone told them to, they didn't, that's why.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i looked over notes from the 1st time i read the thing, and had same reaction then ! but then, left with 'maybe i find why'. 3y later, not found why !
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman , el al -- what am i missing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have a serious wtf re serpent, and neither the s.mg/classic ada, nor the orig paper, has helped me to make sense of it, and i'm suspecting that i'm thick... so here it is:
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 03:06 mircea_popescu: eh. the quality of police work has so terribly degraded in the past half century, if anyone does ANY PLANNING AT ALL it's a murder that'll never get solved.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they not simply 'say same thing', it's a form letter, not even rubber stamped but initial'd by some monkey
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a little tricky to ~boot~ from rsa dump, with bare hands, tho
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, dun even need to be kronprinz, you pay fiddibux or i fughet how much it was
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: idea being that one could enter pw even with other folx ( in e.g. restaurant ) looking on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i considered it, yrs ago, but imho it has serious minuses in the field
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it's for cipher keys -- imho terrible idea to have ~all~ the key bits as physical switched in parallel, third party has no biznis being able to see the key simply by getting a peek at a keyed box with eyes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what sorta switches are you thinking of ? if it's ye olde DIPs, nobody cancelled'em, they're maybe a dime for a block of 8, and look today exactly as you remember then from yer 286
a111: Logged on 2018-10-27 18:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, don't you remember this thing ? some dood went off deep end, that there's a cvasi-magical virus in his usb stick. cca 2015 vintage logs
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-27#1866787 << for the record >> http://trilema.com/2013/badbios-aka-badlydonedamagecontrol/ ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: needs diddled bios + the crown jewels of intel/amd, to diddle microcode (intel's is rsa'd, amd's simply obscure/undoc'd) , and if yer diddling bios can make much simpler trap. but yes, would work
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not meritless, but not a weapon, toy store water gun, is the idea.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes i recall very well. this one is genuine, tho, but one half of a rigged academi-demo, requires ~their~ microcode patch
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: piltdown man
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: 0.824016563118
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: linked item alleges that if one divides 0xa1a2a3a4 by 0xb1b2b3b4 on x86, triggers magic nsa hole.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i view block ciphertrons as a 'slightly better than nuffin' kind of tech -- would slightly rather lose a serpented disk to enemy than naked one; but that's about it
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: grr, typo, ~65~ not 25
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as in, whether it actually sboxates at the stated 25MHz ? notyet, gotta write a serial i/o thing for it, to do this. possibly later today.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: observe also that the sbox mechanism is 'bitsliced' (i.e. the bits move only 'vertically' there ) so potentially it can be shrunk at expense of speed . so the real puzzler isn't 'does serpent fit', it can almost certainly be shoehorned, but 'with how little/much unrollage' i.e. what resulting eating bitrate.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-27 01:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866669 <<< this statement is too general. "which one has the largest first octet". that's it.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo it was just a throway oneliner ic ame up with while walking off a steak, sadly no more there. << AH, I though maybe Tess Hollandaise died of excess mass and had been replaced as leader of the hamplanets by a younger, dumpier model
Mocky: mircea_popescu, do you have any interest in kuwait? if so I can keep this lead warm on the back burner while I work qatar
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 21:02 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I guess mircea_popescu has a point: one can choose just *what* has to go through the MPI swamp and what not
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 20:57 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, uhm...no/
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I guess mircea_popescu has a point: one can choose just *what* has to go through the MPI swamp and what not ☟︎
asciilifeform: diana_coman: out of curiosity -- given what mircea_popescu said the other day re necessary speed of rsa ops, could potentially use the current (11) ffa ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, uhm...no/ ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 17:24 mircea_popescu: well, so in actionables : probably dusting off vdhl worth your time, see how it feels. possibly baking serpentdisk worth your time, tho at this point seems kinda soso.
asciilifeform: ( iirc there was an extended mircea_popescu piece re subj, but i cannot nao recall which )
a111: Logged on 2015-04-13 14:59 mircea_popescu: nubbins` for the record, traditional (european) cooking happened around this large flat table of very thick oak
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even the fundamental shit-into-toilet-not-pants of 'run gedankenexperiment before actually building' seems to be going away in heathendom
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> with all the "coc" bs, i suspect ~0 white men remaining who even know how to run a technical discussion, or ot what end it is done. << Just gotta make the definition of "white men" more inclusive like the FBI is doing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: classical serpent eats 256bit key. but ( as illustrated in http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/ ) eats/shits 16 byte payload blox as it goes; a 4096 byte flash sector would need 8 of these, plus i suspect a 9th for the block # ( see earlier re 'known plaintext'ism etc )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: two block sizes ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re the disk thing ? depends entirely on the serpentron. so open q.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're sorta fundamentally immiscible, verilog is not a procedural/algorithmic lang
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope, as in fact noted in the head of thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866343 ☝︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: then errybody who likes it, pulls their roms and writes in ~that~ , neh.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu's pov was 'symmetric iron disk is worse than nuffin cuz symmetric ciphers are hokum' -- i'll buy
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody's even yet invented an approach to investigating strength of symmetrics. (only weakness)
asciilifeform: it is a kind of 'escherian', as mircea_popescu likes to describe, object.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that there will not be a 'civilized' symmetric cipher, i.e. item with less voodoo flavour to it than 'serpent'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: symmetric crypter doesn't win from massive arithmetron tho
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i see plenty of merit in iron bignumtron, sure
asciilifeform: this was actually mircea_popescu's idea, originally, it was orig part of the cardano cocktail.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style . ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: modern academitard 'publishing' is usually of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1857920 sort ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 01:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the secondary stack thing worx correctly in modern-day gnat. but i banned it. ( because it makes reading disasmed binariolade harder; reasoning about the semantics of the latter -- also harder; and consumes very scarce, on small embedded chips, memory , imho needlessly )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'patch' is not the applicable name for the required ragnarok. whole kernel is like this, 9000 layers deep.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 03:06 mircea_popescu: really, open() should be rewritten.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 19:27 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866195 << to make more shit ? :D
a111: Logged on 2018-10-08 16:20 mircea_popescu: because no, the "i know ~exactly~ what the computer is doing" declaration is not optional. exactly like socrates' observation, "the man claiming no political system has political system", exactly so, whatever the claim, to run code on machine equals the declaration of having fully read and thoroughly understood. there's no wiggle room.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 17:01 mircea_popescu: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/vpatch-replacing-mktemp3/ << i quite enjoyed reading this btw.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 14:52 mircea_popescu: up to you whether to make a dir or not ; eventually these will end up in that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865314 -- but the only way that happens is if you try things and then productively disagree with people. i've nfi at the moment whether we do or we don't want single temp files in a tmp dir nevertheless, or anything else ; and i absolutely do not wish to ever do (or will ever permit anyone to) sit around and "think
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re 'ion pump' upstack , in olden days when asciilifeform worked as academi-grunt in a bio lab, did many long hours of snore at electrophoretic 'blots', where chromatographic rubbish moves along a gel. and thought 'why not bake ic this day, what if you give it 2nd axis to steer the current' etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: regularly there's word from some d00d who actually bought surplus gear ( see e.g. linked thread ) and 'omfg, i made a diode!' , typically as far as they get ( and it wasn't even because usg.dhs came for his flourine , afaik it did not )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd even settle for something entirely like ice40 but with fuse/antifuse bridges
asciilifeform: and evidently even mircea_popescu's supply of screaming + patience was finite, the argentines ended up curing him of further attempts, not he -- them
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform is not labouring under delusion , however, that 'if only they sold, i could be sitting in $50k mircea_popescu-grade castle', prolly mitsubishi would own'em all )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'родиной не торгую' (tm)(r)(stalin)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i saw truly mindboggling number of unfinished-and-decaying half-built houses in timis
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, didja walk in with 5kg of green ? and reply 'here, assess this'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863686 thrd, yes ☝︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the sad bit is that conventional asic process , as available today in cn , tw, etc, is also like this. you are forced to use 'standard cells' supplied by vendor.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is actually how existing ic industry worx, a good half of the 'asics' are actually 'hard copy fpga', recall the early miner derps threads.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for design that actually fits inside, you end with exactly 'slow asic', with the added win that it's a homogeneous object with no e.g. 'and here is where he will rsa and here is where the low bit of multiplier will live' sabotage target available to enemy mole in vendor plant.
a111: Logged on 2014-06-02 22:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: jurov: smbx had perverse incentives (usg funding that appeared bottomless - until it died suddenly. reagan's 'star wars.') << best way to sink a good start-up is a bad revenue source early on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall ice40 ? simple grid of LUTs, + matrix of programmable interconnects.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've outlined several items, historically. will summarize for the l0gz, in order of descending ( per asciilifeform's lights ) universality : 1) sane fpga 2) sane minimal cpu 3) 8192-bit arithmetizer ( a la ye olde weitek! but for ints ) 4) 2+3 , if somehow can be fit into 1 die 5) 1chip carrierless radio ( per thread ) 6) sane ethernet controller .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's suppose we make the req'd contact. what wouldja want to fab 1st ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 08:35 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865707 << ./tmp is the "cannonical" place for putting "temporary" files ; but only in the sense that ./<label> is the place one'd expect <label> files to end up. it's only cannonical in the sense of cockblocking idiotic unixisms and other moronnicals.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 05:24 mircea_popescu: re-doing this every few years seems eminently 'dammi tempu ca ti perciu'.
asciilifeform: ( and mircea_popescu seems to concur with my verdict, they're ripoffs )
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 14:57 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865811 << this is nonsense, no chip packaging costs a benjie wtf. and is the 700 per how many ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 06:31 mircea_popescu: slowly but surely a republican ada style manual is shaping up (and through the exact http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865304 process, at that!)
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 08:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865731 << this is actually pretty dubious. where internally ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 05:24 mircea_popescu: re-doing this every few years seems eminently 'dammi tempu ca ti perciu'.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 08:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865605 << i wouldn't send him supplies he doesn't ask for. let the man actually do something useful.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 08:35 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865707 << ./tmp is the "cannonical" place for putting "temporary" files ; but only in the sense that ./<label> is the place one'd expect <label> files to end up. it's only cannonical in the sense of cockblocking idiotic unixisms and other moronnicals.