log☇︎
5600+ entries in 0.059s
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 21:27 asciilifeform: as for the old shoemaker, admittedly i never wore a crown, but afaik folx who wear crowns do not have the option of saying 'we lost options'. sorta like the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663960 thing.
asciilifeform: ( as how gorby genuflected for katyn shooting , gulag, etc , to earn his miami )
mircea_popescu: ie, "land is no longer this thing the noble owns as his thing to own. land is now a sort of community chest, that the state owns, and maybe noble continues as its steward a while"
mircea_popescu: as it happens, in warsaw pact function #1 failed ~mid 70s, and function #2 failed ~mid 80s. ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: in the end, there's two major functions of leadership in human society. one is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1880251 (generally called "economy") and the other is, synchronization, as in, selection of schelling points. this is usualyl called culture, but it's a large thing, including tropes and all sorta manner of thing. ☝︎
diana_coman: born in the 30s was educated 40s-50s, rather mostenire as it were.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman newton -> einstein is precisely changing a set of lies for a better set of lies. world dun work as physics says, nor ever did. however -- better lies work better.
mircea_popescu: new man happens when old man chooses to be so fucking stupid as to not meaningfully exist in any sense.
mircea_popescu: the fucking morons ~opted~ for evil, and then went about as if their pretending "they didn't opt" makes it BE THE CASE they did not so opt.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 17:02 mircea_popescu: consider the traditional antisemitism -- a cluster of lumphocytes around a very real problem, yes, but SUBJECTIVE PROBLEM OF THE JEWS. not irritating "the organism" as such in any sense, beyond the very obvious an' deeply human "you folk can't be this fucking stupid!" thing
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902001 << the problematic things here are miniaturization and technologization. there's relatively little need or use for the sort of "factory" as displayed in 1950s italian films. and besides, india can have those. ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: the commies answers to fundamental questions, as insufficient, incorrect, inept, useless or w/e else you might find them, seated in the hallowed confines of the republic, nevertheless blew the fuck out of the water the available alternatives.
mircea_popescu: that communism was untenable by the time 80s rolled around is a historical fact ; but kingdom romania was actually ~more~ bankrupt, as an intellectual endeavour, than communism ever got.
mircea_popescu: y "prior". the whole thing was a bunch of inept by-hand farmers (CENTURIES after the french peasant had domestique-industrialize already! CEEENTURIES!!!!) and a 14% class literally dreaming on top of them, while "hating" the boss that "makes them" do the makework that existed ENTIRELY as a pretext to pay them, in the very "internal paint" hope they might achieve something sometime somehow (all unspecified).
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901994 << this is deeply untrue, though. romania made its own military equipment, which it did not have in the 30s. there's such a thing as truck factory or tractor factory or etc. period romania had ENTIRELY nothing at all, revisit http://trilema.com/2012/o-bucatica-de-istorie-sau-1907-din-primavara-pina-in-toamna-de-ion-luca-caragiale/ as an excellent summary of the situation in the countr ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901987 << it was pushed as hard as it needed to be. ro industrialized ~same as ussr did, really. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901981 << misery in the short term and complete oblivion in the long term. there's not gonna be anymore "trade in women" as they expect it to work, for one thing. ☝︎
diana_coman: i.e. look, not as bad as it can be; sure, there is always worse.
mircea_popescu: the argument as i perceived it generally revolves around this "omg, he's the devil!!!"
diana_coman: aha, ibraileanu in fact mentions both as similar in this sense though Caragiale even more instransigent on the matter, supposedly because simply living closer to the problem as it were, as it started in Muntenia
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 20:40 diana_coman: with the added bonus that Ibraileanu in 1909 cites from the same piece of Caragiale (Politica si cultura) with the comment that Caragiale was the most acerbic critic of... "liberalism" (the quotations marks are Ibraileanu's) that is further explained as "partidul <<ros>>" aka the red party.
diana_coman: re stupid my understanding of the usual charge is that he was non-intelligent, not non-smart; clever and shrewd perhaps; then again, this is my "translation" - I don't really know either way, not as if I knew the guy
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 22:40 mircea_popescu: but there's two lines of pedestrian ceausescu-hate that carry no water. one is, "he is responsible for drought". dood is not a 12yo girl dancing naked in the street, has no peculiar relationship to rain. the other is that he was particularly stupid. was not -- way the fuck smarter than period writers, or generally "intellectuals". less aware of the ample thesaurus of borrowed knowledge they used to drop in conversation as a s
mircea_popescu: or, horrible dictu, how it mars obama as a moron with no culture.
mircea_popescu: but there's two lines of pedestrian ceausescu-hate that carry no water. one is, "he is responsible for drought". dood is not a 12yo girl dancing naked in the street, has no peculiar relationship to rain. the other is that he was particularly stupid. was not -- way the fuck smarter than period writers, or generally "intellectuals". less aware of the ample thesaurus of borrowed knowledge they used to drop in conversation as a s ☟︎
diana_coman: pretty much as you readily grant bucharest is/was one
mircea_popescu: i dunno that he knows what he's talking about. as a factual matter, 1985 living conditions were worse in moscow than in bucharest (and by far worse in bucharest than say cluj, or timisoara)
mircea_popescu: there's no argument as to degradation. the objection is that the whole soviet world was undergoing the same process, and it hit the russians worse.
mircea_popescu: willy-nilly these are the points of comparison as to the extant real estate inventory.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 20:11 diana_coman: and that's valid for the 1000 bakeries too; I suppose one can argue that it's still an achievement to have bakeries with no bread than to have no bakeries and stale bread but I don't buy it; and note that in the 80's the latest brightest idea (in the same vein, all hail!) was to further do this sort of great "improvement", to wit the communal "neighbourhood kitchen" to get rid of such waste as having individual kitchens in every hruscheba
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 20:08 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901855 -> his "move" was - as most - very much in the vein of "this is the shop where we don't have fish"
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, that'd be why
asciilifeform: the old empire was irrecoverably sad as early as 1907.
diana_coman: I wasn't even for a second considering *those* elites, no; as I said: elites were long dead by that time; the thing was precisely that being between them, well, he was asking the fat pigs to actually do something; big surprise they oinked only louder trembling that the food might stop.
mircea_popescu: what elite ? the pliiceanu corps ? that fat pig above ? gunoi dinescu ? laisses, as inept as ceausescu might've been politically, the culturniks were inept ^ inept.
mircea_popescu: in his relations to, eg, the "intellectual elite" (in their own mind, and exactly nowhere else) as gathered before him at say neptun, or mangalia, he was entirely correct. and his pointing out that they have yet work to do before their workproduct is as tall as he stands is sound, if unpleasant.
diana_coman: and yes, I can see him easily and predictably as a scapegoat; kids, don't take crown found in the mud just because nobody else wants it
mircea_popescu: whole thing went bankrupt in the 70s, by 72 it was dead. he decided to blame "the jews", as he understood them, hence "show off those slick ny bankers, pay debt".
mircea_popescu: as incidentally (and incompehendingly, to him) oil was high then (arab embargo) he decided to center this mini-empire on oil production and refining.
mircea_popescu: other than escaping the soviets, he attempted a sort of mini-imperialism, the cutest tchotchke show you could ever imagine, romania as an imperial power of a rag tag group of nowhere countries (including columbia, we discussed the very unhappy lulz of romania when those doods decided to just walk out of "agreements" -- mirroring exactly say spain, over the centuries)
mircea_popescu: let's do a quick ro commie likbez : ceausescu took over in '65. he got rid of dej-era leftovers as part and parcel of continuing dej's own policy of escaping the soviets. this the west ineptly (but in typical self-centered manner) misreported as "loosening".
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 20:08 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901855 -> his "move" was - as most - very much in the vein of "this is the shop where we don't have fish"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901954 << you wanna discuss the fellow in the strict terms of 1984-1989 ? he found himself promoted (by lack of actual alternative at the time, ftr, not so much he took step forward as everyone else took steep absence) in '65. ☝︎
asciilifeform: if yer wearing a crown and you really think 'no options' , you get out the wagner and cyanide and be sure to also dose blondie the dog 1st to make sure as fuck the cyanide is strong enuff
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 16:28 asciilifeform: and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe
asciilifeform: as for the old shoemaker, admittedly i never wore a crown, but afaik folx who wear crowns do not have the option of saying 'we lost options'. sorta like the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663960 thing. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 21:15 diana_coman: sure; as mircea_popescu pointed out already, Romania lost already earlier than that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901850
asciilifeform: as soon as you got neighbours that aint african knocking on door.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-14 16:41 asciilifeform: there's a common set of jokes from su, q: 'if only we let germany win, we'd be drinking bavarian! riding in mercedes!' a: '... yes, ride in mercedes. but -- as the leather seat.'
asciilifeform: earlier tried spreading for the germans. conceivably could have 'drinking bavarian' and even not as the leather seat, in an alt-hist ☝︎
diana_coman: sure; as mircea_popescu pointed out already, Romania lost already earlier than that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901850 ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2014-03-04 01:25 asciilifeform: counter-derper: 'as the leather seats'
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 20:56 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: is exactly what i meant as 'same relation as peasant to his horse', 'it is simply there'
asciilifeform: just as e.g. ru became mineral market
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: is exactly what i meant as 'same relation as peasant to his horse', 'it is simply there' ☟︎
asciilifeform: tho observe also, as soon as the butchery is removed , mentality sinks rapidly back into 'peasant', modern-day ameristani has exactly same relation with his auto as peasant -- horse
diana_coman: asciilifeform, you know, that's the thing that popped at me as soon as I lived for any amount of time in the west: ffs those people do *of their own will and even paying money for* precisely the idiocies that I thought communism was to blame for. So in this sense, Ceausescu "ahead of his time" , marete realizari etc etc; I still think the direction totally wrong so pushing it further doesn't seem like a great achievement to me, that's all.
asciilifeform: shoemaker, near as i can tell, didn't press the point very hard
asciilifeform: this kinda thing, 'would rather have no fish than rotten frozen', is presumably how ro ended up having to feed its horses to europistan as unlabeled mystery sausage when eurocrats banned horse on public road
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that communism cancelled doesn't solve the problems is clear, at least for the very simple reason that the problems were there even before communism, sure, as it can be seen from the pieces above that are quite earlier than that.
diana_coman: with the added bonus that Ibraileanu in 1909 cites from the same piece of Caragiale (Politica si cultura) with the comment that Caragiale was the most acerbic critic of... "liberalism" (the quotations marks are Ibraileanu's) that is further explained as "partidul <<ros>>" aka the red party. ☟︎
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901720 -> maybe; but this sort of "it's enough to make the buildings and name them as to what they are meant to be, because surely then the content will magically appear" doesn't seem much realism to me, quite on the contrary. ☝︎
diana_coman: and that's valid for the 1000 bakeries too; I suppose one can argue that it's still an achievement to have bakeries with no bread than to have no bakeries and stale bread but I don't buy it; and note that in the 80's the latest brightest idea (in the same vein, all hail!) was to further do this sort of great "improvement", to wit the communal "neighbourhood kitchen" to get rid of such waste as having individual kitchens in every hruscheba ☟︎
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901855 -> his "move" was - as most - very much in the vein of "this is the shop where we don't have fish" ☝︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as autoimmune reaction.
mircea_popescu: consider the traditional antisemitism -- a cluster of lumphocytes around a very real problem, yes, but SUBJECTIVE PROBLEM OF THE JEWS. not irritating "the organism" as such in any sense, beyond the very obvious an' deeply human "you folk can't be this fucking stupid!" thing ☟︎
mircea_popescu: well, maybe not every, but plenty of contemporraneous ones. (see ? again with the "is pig female or is female pig" conundrum. captive in history as we are...)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, as i understand, maps the 'pig' to 'female', but the model is quite same, this is moar of a label on the knobs
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 16:25 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i dun have a better algo to give for how to reformat a cultural hdd , afaik that's still the state of the art. << Well there is the US Socialist Disney block by block reformat algo as well
asciilifeform: upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901856 << i suspect this is red herring. it is 'institution' making a stab at regaining lost territory. asciilifeform's suspicion is that if 'history struggle', it aint between so much specifically 'new and old elite' as b/w human-man ( who wakes up and knows that he was put upon the earth to cut atom, build harem, etc ) and beetle-man, who 'knows' that he was born to eat from trough prikok ☝︎
mircea_popescu: "i made chair, for man to sit in, with my hands as directed by my head, and an endless supply of stirpituri & tirituri, with my cunt, as directed by the cock going into it. WOE IS ME!"
asciilifeform: 'bout the same as we cry for the church derps voltaire poured cement on
mircea_popescu: "but mp, it worked. and we loved it". at least the horses were alive, that merits something. "but our figments and hallucinations -- just as alive to us!!!"
a111: Logged on 2017-02-03 05:29 phf: my mom had one of those "papa escaped the purges by burning all paperwork but life got tough when they took our governess" piano teachers, who would lament about being forced to teach peasants and brown folk, not on racial grounds as much as "you have to have a bidet in your house for 3 generations, before you can touch a piano"
mircea_popescu: and i daresay that the thing is working admirably well ; but not nearly as well as the sovok mechanism did in fact work -- the imperial officers would never have beaten the wehrmacht, for one thing.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i dun have a better algo to give for how to reformat a cultural hdd , afaik that's still the state of the art. << Well there is the US Socialist Disney block by block reformat algo as well ☟︎
diana_coman: for completeness, I can say that I know from direct experience both force-peasants-to-town-into-big-houses and vanish in the night for having had too much wealth beforehand; none of it (in either case) is an achievement as far as I can see
diana_coman: mind ~exactly the same as current "equality!!!" quotas and whatnots, I consider that the moment one does this systematically, there is right to complain that he ends up with idiots
asciilifeform: what with god as puppeteer etc
mircea_popescu: yes, but his mother got poisoned as a little boy, and up until 15 he was... a peasant ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wasn't ivan raised by a regency, in the manner the prince of talleyrand-perigord also describes, "as a vagrant or the poorest of the poor" ?
asciilifeform: i'd expect it'd be same as what stalin did in this exact case
asciilifeform: i gotta bite, an' ask, how is ~that~ bit of magic maintained...? do they have an eliza running, to post as him ? or how else anyone thinks 'not dead'
mircea_popescu: and this because he ~opted not to~ (unawaredly, but just as opted) through the exact process of "this is too stupid to understand". it is too stupid to understand ~deliberately~ and FOR THAT PURPOSE.
mircea_popescu: and he systematically didn't understand the ~only set of dorks who belonged in jail, as a sort of public service, for re-realization.
mircea_popescu: so yes, the principal driver behind " very little 'prophylactic' depantsuiting in his reign" (which is factual) was... very little capacity to conceptualize the pantsuitism. because of the EXACT http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901577 thought process (though he's not nearly as elegant in his thinking, nor did he have enough sense to keep a fucking blog, so as to GET this elegant.) ☝︎
asciilifeform: nowadays any mcd-eater can become this, eh. but as i understand then it took some pull, to wangle the calories
asciilifeform: tov. c was quite unlike mircea_popescu in 1 important way , tho -- he neglected the disease until was unmanageable, was - near as i can tell - pretty soft (vs, e.g., stalin), very little 'prophylactic' depantsuiting in his reign
BingoBoingo: But as awful as IRC documentation is the XMPP thing... I tried to read some explanations of what XMPP is and how it works, but the 2004 era buzzwords and "keep updated" stuff is thick
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901514 << I'm of the thinking we should move too; however, I've been thinking the same thing all day, 'where?'. Looks like the court is investigating some options for existing networks, as well as considering one of our own. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: anyways, imo the matter still stands. originally my idea was that phf will put up a drawing of a dwarf with a humongo hammer at the close of the 2nd chapter in the tmsr saga (as per last words of http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128287 ), but i guess instead it'll be a ... large spider ? wtf. ☟︎
asciilifeform: not as if i dun regularly come up against same barf as mircea_popescu did this morning
asciilifeform: having said this, i'm all for setting up a not-fleanode . and will put relay on dulap as soon as the matter of 'which ircd' is settled.
asciilifeform: or , say, take tcp. mircea_popescu aint even a programmer, and is just about as 'clean' as a fella can get in re programming radiation damage and still have worked with comp. but it took asciilifeform 3+yrs to get him to see that tcp is -- by design -- garbage
asciilifeform: the ~damage~ ( and imho is just about as factual as radiation damage ) from being a programmer, is that familiarity with crud , leads to swallowing, and eventually you learn to live with things that by all rights no one oughta live with. witness how many people think that it is acceptable for a program to sometimes crash, for instance.
trinque: the upstack claim was that this will help design gossipd. *only* as antipattern and study of antipatterns does not by itself yield sense.
hanbot: and as to microsoft specifically, i do trust your opinion on microsoft above the opinion of microsoft of an imaginary asciilifeform that never touched it. this is exactly what i meant about finding out whether there's even anything there.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'll admit that it isn't clear to me how effort put into baking glue for oddball nonstandard ircisms helps in re gossipd . irc as i see it is an entirely dead-end tech ( rides on tcp, and 0 notion of crypto , and cannot be retrofitted really )
a111: Logged on 2018-08-04 22:05 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc i proposed at one time an intermediate item on the way to proper gossipd ( 'serpent'-ciphered tunneler to connect coupla ircd instances to each other, and ditto for users ( get otp cookie a la deedbot, get a key that's good for 1 tcp connect ) but so far instead followed mircea_popescu's advice re not wasting sweat on such a thing, but pushing with ffa so as to get with what to gossipd.
asciilifeform: hanbot: imho oughta move ( as i said in the past, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-04#1839469 ) , q is 'where' ☝︎