log☇︎
1000+ entries in 0.023s
mp_en_viaje: now don't fucking tell me you didn't understand this is both a) how human society advances and b) what the fuck we even do here.
mp_en_viaje: t does lucia" would have been written anyway)
mp_en_viaje: the reason lucia was ever written by donizetti (and if it weren't written by him, it'd have been written by someone else! -- not "the same" in the irrelevant, misunderstood sense of "same exact surface", "same exact stringing of notes", because IT IS NOT THE FORM OF THE ARGUMENT THAT LENDS IT CREDENCE. but same in the only meaningful way : sameness of function, lucia, "the thing tha
Mocky: treating me well but I haven't been managing it well. I went a little overboard trying to earn more money and seeing three chicks at the same time. I exceeded my capacity to manage it.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: That word exists here verbally with substantial frequency, but... the search engines don't seem to know it.
mp_en_viaje: and on the cultural standard, you'll still have to explain both, it's not like one's free. "but but but, greg abbot was ~trying~ to be good!" vs "what does this button do ?", doesn't seem you're saving anything either way. always cheaper to live in the present than to reconstruct the past.
mp_en_viaje: for that matter : by the time the 60s rolled around there were adult tejanos all over texas shaking their head at this elvis greasy, faggoty bs and thinking back to a greater time in, say, 1890, back when cattle was still speaking spanish and the east coast dudes hadn't really shown up with their idioties, "how to make it all cheap". while in the actual 1890, actual mexicans in texas were looking up through almanacs at the
mp_en_viaje: trinque, i don't expect 1960s tx is reproducible outside of a hard reset. highly coherent, profoundly skilled workforce in a complete worldview will absolutely require the conditions that spawned them, and will necessarily dissolve once the solvents show up.
mp_en_viaje: vienna and prague aren't bad.
diana_coman: and moreover I don't think it's signalling that should be a concern really (in this case or in another).
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: uhm, no, I don't agree on either points.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: If mike_c doesn't get paid it sends the signal that TMSR doesn't ever deal, following this external relations is difficult because of the "What the hell can a lord do for me" objection. If mike_c gets paid, TMSR matters, WoT matters, and voice has value as can be demonstrated through the outcome of the case... but the precedent is not sufficiently restrictive so as to prevent future tightening, refusals, etc.
diana_coman: ugh, I don't like much this precedent on precedent alone but maybe that's just me.
diana_coman: in the case where MPEx does not pay him out, I don't see how he has a say into what happens to the coin so I fail to see how is that part meaningful; if he wants the coin to be paid to asciilifeform entirely then he can do so once he gets it, no? if he doesn't get it, then he can't say what is to be done with it.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: If someone comes on a day after mike_c is paid out by MPEx, I can't imagine this hypothetical next person would receive any offer for voice nearly as cheap as 30 BTC.
BingoBoingo: The fact that he valued voice, whether MPEx pays him out or not... I don't see how that isn't submission. In his best case he gets coin out, maybe he does turn it all over to hostile parties. He agreed that in his worst case where MPEx does not pay him out... his coin stays with Republican interests.
BingoBoingo: mike_c gave us what Daphna Waxman didn't. Sure, Daphna Waxman is salt pork that happens to maybe still be on the hoof. If Daphna Waxman ever shows up... for mike_c's decision to make a deal... there is a screw to be turned.
diana_coman: ftr I do NOT mean that he shouldn't get the coin or anything of the sort; I literally mean what I say above namely that I don't see how does that qualify for submission.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: as things stand, he is at any rate after getting the coin to use outside tmsr; because can't yet "find time" or whatever; sure, some price to pay for getting it out, that much his actions acknowledge + some appreciation for asciilifeform's work, certainly.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-17 05:00:55 mp_en_viaje: i get we're basically getting scammed by the duplicitous nature of the lazy, and will be, forever. cuz that's how the world goes, that's how laziness survives as a survival mechanism in the first place. but i'd much rather we understand each other on the topic, than it just proceed on my authority and then whatever, ten years later it'll be "mp just shouldn't have paid all these asshats" or who the fuck knows what
BingoBoingo: I really don't see how in this case mike_c could have demonstrated "non-aggression" alone. For his action, he actively acknowledged WoT supremacy. For his recognition of WoT supremacy, laziness has a demonstrable cost.
BingoBoingo: Maybe you don't want to call it submission, but it is an acknowledgement of the Republic as Sovereign.
diana_coman: hm; I think it shows non-agressiveness; whether submission, I don't quite see it.
ossabot: (asciilifeform) 2019-12-18 mike_c: BingoBoingo: I changed my mind, and my offer to hire you: I send you fee of 30 BTC (same amount the mpex account cost coincidentally). If you lose the case and I don't recover my dividend, you send 10 BTC to ascii (nothing to me). If you win and I do recover, then I send 10 BTC to ascii (and you keep the 30). in case of partial recovery, i dunno, we do something gentlemanly.
BingoBoingo: It didn't take many lines of conversation or a whole hour for mike_c to find that the after missing out on things over the years like the entire history of an ISP... An actual demonstration of the value of WoT position and the barriers presented by WoT gating was his best possible demonstration of submission.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 00:23:14 BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: The truth doesn't wear out. The screw however turns with time.
mp_en_viaje: what's more, this has played out quite a few times to date, it either dies from inconsequence ("and so who the fuck are you and him anyways ?"), is resolved through some kinda mediation ("how about instead of fucking each other you do x and live ?") or else "you/him is a complete fuckwad, get the fuck lost, i can't even believe you can have this problem."
mp_en_viaje: anyway, to get back to the "recourse from negrating" thing -- you and him argue, i'm definitely getting stuck with making some choices. there's no out of this, and it doesn't matter what you load into "you, him, i".
mp_en_viaje: there's the distinct possibility they do build such better thing, and the corp that lived with the worse one reverts to it, because can't tell the difference.
mp_en_viaje: now, admitting you're good at what you do as only god himself can ever be, here are your outcomes : if you go for girls that would make great sluts, and you make them great sluts, what if they ask "ok, so ?" when you're done ? ie, they ARE great sluts now, where they'd have been just wasted potential before, but they... do not see it ? they don't perceive anything relevant has changed at all ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 22:30:19 trinque: we can't build towards the purpose of e.g. running game/browser/etc, even if in the end a browser or game runs atop
BingoBoingo: Didn't even take a weekend.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: The truth doesn't wear out. The screw however turns with time.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 19:25:18 mp_en_viaje: and no "fuck it, just keep it" ain't much of an answer, because if nothing else this provides the most perverse incentive imaginable.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 19:20:11 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955571 << consider the matter of services. this question pops in all over the place, alf was all over trinque re "what happens with deedbot if i get negrated". i din't invent this question, it's been recurring, mod6 asked me at some point something similar
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 19:04:35 jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955376 - to make my reasons for inclusion by reference rather than importing trees explicit, even if bad: on my own I was certainly in no position to pay the maintenance debts of all those projects, so I wanted some separation between my own work and them. As I see it now, the trouble is this doesn't actually solve anything if you still have to use
trinque: but what I do isn't thereby gold
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 18:50:33 jfw: trinque: one approach is if money flows and wants patching support, to sell subscriptions covering some defined set of things. Do such clients exist? I don't know but seems like these tend to be large corps already in submission to USG and can just as well buy RedHat
trinque: I don't think there's much daylight between our perspectives on this
trinque: we can't build towards the purpose of e.g. running game/browser/etc, even if in the end a browser or game runs atop
trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955605 << I don't mean to say everything from modern computing is banned.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 18:49:25 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955537 << no it doesn't, wut, im gonna get pissy at x because he made a sound argument ?
jfw: Perhaps not start-ups in that sense then? or at least I wasn't there at the starting of.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955615 << irl, most coin sits in appaling security contexts and yet "liberations" are indeed rare. it's a problem of roi, most theft is opportunity-driven rather than systematic (mirroring how most people's houses ~could~ be broken in, by your gf. but most people's houses nevertheless aren't broken into -- and especially not by your
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 18:18:46 jfw: After their hack / loss and change of ownership, they downsized to 3-4 people, none of whom could really maintain the redeployed systems. So I ended up doing some part-time for them in 2016. This was short-lived: I found their priorities entirely out of whack, it looked like they were headed for nothing but more trouble, and they didn't listen to me on much of anything. The pretense pump I reckon.
mp_en_viaje: "he fucked my 3yo daughter with a barbed metal pole, here are the bloody remains", for instance. you'll ignore ~everything~, "he's always been paying rent on time so i really don't care about the corspes" ?
mp_en_viaje: conversely, you also can't ask me to talk to people i don't want to talk to, i'm not a public woman.
mp_en_viaje: and no "fuck it, just keep it" ain't much of an answer, because if nothing else this provides the most perverse incentive imaginable.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-17 20:04:01 lobbes: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955551 << I keep coming back to this point. The meaning of any rating is something that each individual must weigh for themselves, isn't it? Could there be a 'blanket' upfront decision as such? (Very possible I'm just not picking up the nuance, however)
mp_en_viaje: there's at the very least some basis for this, such as a "is user entirely harmless or potentially harmful". user eminently harmful on pizarro, couldn't afford luxury to ignore negrates for instance.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955571 << consider the matter of services. this question pops in all over the place, alf was all over trinque re "what happens with deedbot if i get negrated". i din't invent this question, it's been recurring, mod6 asked me at some point something similar
mp_en_viaje: it doesn't have to be anything in particular, nor any specific thing. but it must be ~something~.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-17 17:19:10 diana_coman: I have to admit that I can't quite see a way one would go exactly about making a decision based on a case argued on this sort of thing but then again, it would be the first so I don't find it all that surprising that it's not clear upfront, ofc.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955376 - to make my reasons for inclusion by reference rather than importing trees explicit, even if bad: on my own I was certainly in no position to pay the maintenance debts of all those projects, so I wanted some separation between my own work and them. As I see it now, the trouble is this doesn't actually solve anything if you still have to use
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-17 17:06:35 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955541 - I have to admit that I rather considered this sort of situations to be more a matter between the people directly involved and as such it didn't seem to me that there was a need for some sort of upfront decision.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955551 << i don't think this view is sound, because it essentially destroys the possibility of a republic. the term literally denotes "things held in common". whether these are women, sacks of grain, ships, itineraries or ideas can be mixed and matched ; but that SOMETHING will be held in common, and thus not "between the people themselves" is the quintessential prerequisite of a republic, and in genera
jfw: trinque: one approach is if money flows and wants patching support, to sell subscriptions covering some defined set of things. Do such clients exist? I don't know but seems like these tend to be large corps already in submission to USG and can just as well buy RedHat
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955537 << no it doesn't, wut, im gonna get pissy at x because he made a sound argument ?
jfw: trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955361 - I don't disagree on either point really, but not sure what anyone can realistically say about the current software mess beyond 'eh'. Minimizing or moreover replacing socialistware with sane things is the long term approach, but meanwhile one still needs things to work. I'm curious to see what you're cooking for sure.
jfw: After their hack / loss and change of ownership, they downsized to 3-4 people, none of whom could really maintain the redeployed systems. So I ended up doing some part-time for them in 2016. This was short-lived: I found their priorities entirely out of whack, it looked like they were headed for nothing but more trouble, and they didn't listen to me on much of anything. The pretense pump I reckon.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:25:10 mp_en_viaje: actually, i don't recall you ever saying, either of you ever been involved with start-ups in any capacity ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-17 17:06:35 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955541 - I have to admit that I rather considered this sort of situations to be more a matter between the people directly involved and as such it didn't seem to me that there was a need for some sort of upfront decision.
lobbes: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955551 << I keep coming back to this point. The meaning of any rating is something that each individual must weigh for themselves, isn't it? Could there be a 'blanket' upfront decision as such? (Very possible I'm just not picking up the nuance, however)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-17 05:00:55 mp_en_viaje: i get we're basically getting scammed by the duplicitous nature of the lazy, and will be, forever. cuz that's how the world goes, that's how laziness survives as a survival mechanism in the first place. but i'd much rather we understand each other on the topic, than it just proceed on my authority and then whatever, ten years later it'll be "mp just shouldn't have paid all these asshats" or who the fuck knows what
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955528 - ie, I find I simply can't answer this in the form stated.
BingoBoingo: I don't even see loss of citizenship and therefore rights as an extreme meaning of a negrating, especially at -10. That's more of a -1, -2
BingoBoingo: I can't explain the proposal or the strategy in plaintext unless it is accepted by the one requiring an advocate in the forum.
diana_coman: I have to admit that I can't quite see a way one would go exactly about making a decision based on a case argued on this sort of thing but then again, it would be the first so I don't find it all that surprising that it's not clear upfront, ofc.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: I get the impression there's some parallel talking here, lol; I wasn't linking my "infuriating" with your proposal, lolz.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955541 - I have to admit that I rather considered this sort of situations to be more a matter between the people directly involved and as such it didn't seem to me that there was a need for some sort of upfront decision.
mp_en_viaje: i get we're basically getting scammed by the duplicitous nature of the lazy, and will be, forever. cuz that's how the world goes, that's how laziness survives as a survival mechanism in the first place. but i'd much rather we understand each other on the topic, than it just proceed on my authority and then whatever, ten years later it'll be "mp just shouldn't have paid all these asshats" or who the fuck knows what (priorly seen) nonsense.
mp_en_viaje: years later, when it turns out they really weren't, as it happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME, with ornery regularity... then it's suddenly weasel time. we were good friends all along, right ? he just took a nap while we carried, what's the problem.
mp_en_viaje: don't you know, all that is ain't good enough for him, he has all these many other imaginary options that aren't, and in not being "are" all so much better, important, whatever. truly, the republic's like bounty bar wrappers, who even cares, hallucinaria's where it's at.
mp_en_viaje: now back on the record here : i have absolutely no intention of reinstating his mpex account. that ain't happening ; but that aside i also have no problem paying, in principle. god knows i've been paying loads of these, and what's a hundred btc or whatever, who even cares about pennies like that (right ?).
mp_en_viaje: you shouldn't even be able to speak here ; coincidentally nobody could be arsed to plug the particular hole, it wasn't deemed that high a priorty, but that doesn't mean you have thereby acquired some kinda license to abuse.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-15 23:17:48 mike_c: I've been following the snsa wind down recently. Makes sense at this point, and I'm sorry it didn't work out!
BingoBoingo: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-15#1955471 << The export tax seems to be a supreme admission of poverty. If they don't do it all of the garbage they produce will leave. ANd they they will have none
mike_c: I've been following the snsa wind down recently. Makes sense at this point, and I'm sorry it didn't work out!
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955410 << it's surfing, exactly. without an actual navy ready to bombard, 1800s gunboat diplomacy style, a bank's as meaningless as "a jet engine", or "a liver". they don't do anything by themselves.
mp_en_viaje: the same sort of naivity permeates throughout, "oh, the dollar will crash". doesn't enter his mind to wonder "against what". it's been sorta-kinda crashing against the euro, i guess, but i mean look at the fucking euro. the whole fucking concept of the dubaloo is that "it hasn't what to crash against" ; and everyone's complicit -- the chinese sure as fuck don't want it crashing against themselves, for instance. the republic's pretty much t
mp_en_viaje: otherwise, items like eg http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2017-08-16#1699371 very much speak to him. dude had the general idea, but then it turned out it wasn't gold, it was something entirely else. was he "right" ? or was he "wrong" ?
mp_en_viaje: i get it, thing comes with supposed full sources that supposedly build ; i don't know that anyone worth any confidence even tried to in the past however many years. it's still building the wrong way, what the fuck os-awareness of power button. whole fucking point of even having a power butto nin the first place is to have an ALTERNATIVE control mechanism to the operating system.
diana_coman: I don't really have anything to offer as a counterargument to that.
mp_en_viaje: i can't think of any desirable element in it whatsoever.
diana_coman: well yes; and there are also C-specific annoyances but I don't think *those* are his fault now either.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955358 << i don't think they've been thinking about it before in these terms ; but yes solvable. what's more : not only solvable, but beneficially solvable. it's one thing when cleaning up the place is approachable ; it's another thing when cleaning up the place not only is approachable, but actually approaching it necessarily provides an answer to why your scissors kept disappearing. as th
trinque: in reading her logs, I couldn't agree with her more. bbl
trinque: my lately talking only of money isn't greed, so much as trying to humble myself into hustling for that dirty dollar^Wbuttcorn instead of ^
trinque: this isn't an insult btw; I've been a part of several that did.
trinque: why didn't they finish? ran out of steam?
dorion_road: the ceo and cto of coinapult spun off a development company and I did some consulting with them, but they didn't finish the software they started and I transitioned to work with jfw.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:25:10 mp_en_viaje: actually, i don't recall you ever saying, either of you ever been involved with start-ups in any capacity ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:20:10 mp_en_viaje: his saving grace is that his clients are in fact very similar idiots in the relevant aspects, which is why i said well targetted. that's the key to success, always find a group of such idiots that, ideally, don't even realise it.
dorion_road: ah, right. that's a big shortcoming of Gales, didn't use V from the start.
trinque: dorion_road: it's more a comment that "why isn't your patch a vpatch atop the gales genesis"
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-14 14:00:22 trinque: dorion_road: btw, your gales has the same problem mp_en_viaje pointed out about my cuntoo. it doesn't actually have the sources of the dependencies. one provides those as tarballs.
trinque: I don't think you expect to actually be yourselves patching acpica autoconf automake bash bc bison bzip2 cl-hyperspec clisp dash db flex gales-util gcc64 git gnupg less libevent libressl libusb links m4 man-pages man-pages-posix mandoc ncurses nginx ocaml openssh patch pciutils perl php56 py-setuptools python python-docs qmail readline redis sbcl sqlite sqlite-doc tmux ucspi-tcp vim xz zlib
trinque: dorion_road: btw, your gales has the same problem mp_en_viaje pointed out about my cuntoo. it doesn't actually have the sources of the dependencies. one provides those as tarballs.
diana_coman: trinque: the comparison OS/protestantism made sense; I get the allergy to hubris cycle too, now that you say it explicitly; my point above was though precisely re loud-before-crashed esp given the long silence -punctured at times briefly, sure- before that; ie the outbursts themselves I get but I don't see to be very useful really.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:11:41 mp_en_viaje: i dont know, man. from where i'm sitting, and i'll readily admit i'm not some sort of linux scholar over here, it seems to me torvalds came in two decades ago on a sorta-kinda wishy-washy platform, and a bunch of perfectly respectable men went with him because well, sorta-kinda wishy-washy is better than nothing, and because being an engineers they didn't know better. they were, so to speak, pre-headfucked by pant