asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 ... and it is infuriatingly annoying that yer thing demands 'build' dir be deleted each time, starting the 3hrs from 0 for each attempt
asciilifeform: ( it is used for reversing, when you want to cut particular trace, or create one, or strip away sumthing )
asciilifeform: it's an off-the-shelf industrial power tool, wat. already has use. just, no good for 'from empty crystal' ic-makin'.
asciilifeform: ^ ion beam epitaxy, for instance, is this
asciilifeform discounts wankage where 'each transistor takes 3min to etch', esp. from grant-eaters, as simple grantsmanship
asciilifeform periodically looks for some evidence, somewhere, that anybody has even conceived of working on 'polaroid-style' fabbing; to date found 0 , public or otherwise
asciilifeform: well ~somehow~ he conceived of the notion that 'fab dun have to cost $bil' but took it no further than the folx discussed in the 'gas tank additive THEY dun want you to know!' thread
asciilifeform: ( nor, i suspect, even knows how to conceptualize this )
asciilifeform: d00d has nfi that classical ic fab is technopolitical dead end.
asciilifeform: in the particular case -- i suspect simple failure of imagination.
asciilifeform: moar than adequate for the sort of things we do, if massaged properly.
asciilifeform: 'lego them up' very quickly gives fridge-sized thing that runs at 500kHz.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gotta have at least 1uM process, to be of practical use, by my reckoning
asciilifeform at one time made own pcb routinely, 2sided even, and all of the req'd kit fit in a suitcase and most of it obtainable at photography shops
asciilifeform: raw pcb feedstock, while not same as paper, is also pretty cheap. and if ic were produced via process as simple as pcb is produced, ic fabric would also cost similarly.
asciilifeform: the diff is in re how commoditizable/fungible the raw material. it is not trivial to make paper that'll feed a laser printer and not catch fire / clog the rollers, but no one suffers any shortage of said paper today, it is produced on massive scale and sold for half penny / sheet
asciilifeform: b&w photography is imho correctly seen as 'garage affair', notwithstanding that not 1 in 100,000 photohobbyists could produce the film
asciilifeform: nope. and i'd think the diff is pretty clear
asciilifeform: ( maker of the film has nfi what will be exposed on it, where . )
asciilifeform: ~expose~ in garage. where made -- less important. because specificity-of-diddling .
asciilifeform: rather than, e.g., physically moving microscopic parts ( generally a nonstarter )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i strongly suspect that 'polaroid' is the correct path. ( i.e. photographic input of where-what-goes; all of the chemistry needed -- sealed in a capsule, pops and exposes )☟︎
asciilifeform: recall the legend ( i have nfi from what country it originated..) re the clever scammer who sold counterfeiters 'dollar printing machine', which worked great until hidden box ran out of dollarz
asciilifeform: on one hand, d00d ~did~ demonstrate grasp of the physical principles behind ic. on other hand -- to offer the result up in the dressing it is offered in -- is, to put it softly, misleading.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aaaha. sorta like a high-tech version of it. or moar general phenomenon of 'easy to make $mil: begin with $bil..'
asciilifeform: because this means that asciilifeform cannot currently even begin to test ave1's thing -- asciilifeform does not have a musltronic-linux machine
asciilifeform: so lemme get this straight : this entire thing requires a pre-existing 100%-musltronic linux, to work at all ??
asciilifeform: ave1: where, incidentally, does one get this ld.so ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my observation was moar re the 'field' than even the particular item.
asciilifeform: what happens if you build 'cross' but with 'x86-64' as the target ?
asciilifeform: right, but ave1 did you actually get the complete equivalent-to-binary-kit-from-adacore-complete-with-gprbuild-etc made ?
asciilifeform: i'll point out, this is not equivalent to 'build ffa', the gpr file is part of ffa, and contains essential functionality ( mainly , incorporates the restriction flags, mandates staticity )
asciilifeform: ( for the sake of thread-completeness, what would the ~alternative~ to this story look like? i suggest -- it'd be a process which does to ic fab what 'polaroid' process did to colour photography. find way of etching the circuit from prefab 'sandwich' without caustic baths, sputtering, etc... )☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: picture, with access to e.g. boeing's , junkyard, a similar d00d could build something like the nazi 1-seat jet, with own hands also. but to describe it as 'garage-buildable jet' is rather chumpatronic spin imho.
asciilifeform: point being, d00d made 0 fundamental breakthrough that would enable 'cheap ic fab' or anything even with stretch of imagination describable as such a thing.
asciilifeform: i also gotta point out that to make larger ic is quite more than linearly moar painful ( 1 defect --> rubbish; larger die , with 'orc' process, means that P of fatal defect approaches 1 )
asciilifeform: i.e. not the typical meaning of 'garage', and not replicable by anybody without either couple-deca-$mil or 25 yrs of access to just-so junkyards
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806449 << this appears to be honest work, but if you look at what he actually did, and with what resources, the 'imponade' evaporates away -- he made a coupla-transistor ic , and with 'garage' filled with a princely collection of surplus industrial gear ( electron microscope, sputtering chamber, ~very~ high end optical microscopes, incl. the one he junkyard-wars'd into a lithography box ) ,☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: if only even the wanks had any variety. but nope, always ~same
asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque deedbot seems to have skipped a number of phuctor rss ticks today
asciilifeform: in other quasi-noose, heathen node walker ( https://archive.li/FHKym today's snapshot ) reports 11 advertised trb nodez, with 9 of'em at tip-top of currentchain . iirc of the 9, 2 are actually 1 BingoBoingo box. still seems like 'aggression' worx pretty well.
asciilifeform: accompanied by 'and here is what we instead spent on ONLINE JOURNALS!'
asciilifeform: ( lulzily/apropos , asciilifeform was last night in u.of.md. library, and there was poster ~proudly~ advertising their ongoing 'transformation from storage space for books into activity space for students' -- approx exact words )
asciilifeform: lotta orphaned chains. grassman's, for instance,
asciilifeform was recently reading a very spiffy history of vectorism, from w.r.hamilton up, and noticed that ~same 2 problems befell 19th c maths folx
asciilifeform: ( it is apparently possible to write a vtron, and not know what happens when you orphan a branch.. )
