asciilifeform: imho a trooly clean gnat will be entirely devoid of cisms.
asciilifeform: but given as i do not expect most nontrivial c proggies to build with it, i suspect that the 2 compilers will remain in use in parallel for a while.
asciilifeform: admittedly i haven't tested the avant guard ave1 item yet.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. one where you can dispense with all vendorisms )
asciilifeform: ada standard is just about a hair's breadth away from a proper , Troo standard.
asciilifeform: ( ~ffa_calc~ is not, as it uses a gnatism to grab the commandline args. )
asciilifeform: phf: say what you will re ada standard, but e.g. ffa is ( afaik! ) a nontrivial and at same time ada2012-compliant proggy.☟︎
asciilifeform: amstan (~amstan@aichallenge/admin/amstan) has joined #trilema << lol!!
asciilifeform: cl standard is substantially closer to an ~actual~ standard than, e.g., c++, in the it is ~actually possible~ to program in standard cl. but it really gotta be reopened ( perhaps one day, tmsr cl?? ) and completed.
asciilifeform: phf: as you can prolly tell, asciilifeform has an old-fashioned, ГОСТ-like view of standards. in that a standard really ~must~ specifically make vendor lock-in impossible. and if it fails to do this, it is broken and oughta be corrected ( or thrown out. )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835819 << not for sw relay. sw antenna ideally is a 20meter-hypotenuse triangle. in the woods. what in the woods is hot enuff to run a teg ? ( not considering strontium90 barrels here, but compact and inexpensive items. ) afaik pv panel is the only pill.☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ( certainly was advantage, but small )
asciilifeform: phf: i suspect that the diff could be accounted for by diff in problem domains; but i did not find the advantage to be 'immense'
asciilifeform: phf: in commercial work i use things that would turn the strongest stomach. now, as always, speaking of civilized work.☟︎
asciilifeform: both dead to me nao. i never signed the pact for the src, and i won't use today a compiler for which i lack src, full stop.
asciilifeform: see, i easily get'em confused, had 1 bought Officially back in usgschwitz, and other -- warez.
asciilifeform: anecdote: asciilifeform's elder brother 'lived long enuff' to see sov arcades at length. the infamous 'sea battle' machine universally had a prize compartment, that would open if some outlandish score were achieved. one time, bag of coins, and he managed it. rusty compartment... grinds open. of course empty. arcade keeper 'what did you expect, didja really think you're the first'
asciilifeform: ( admittedly the plushies much less plush nao than 20yrs ago )
asciilifeform: erry arcade i've ever been to actually worked like this
asciilifeform: all of this makes considerably moar sense nao.
asciilifeform: my only disagreement was re the notion that this is necessarily The Right Thing for erry proggy, as some sort of counter to 'rmsism'☟︎
asciilifeform: aha, i have 0 argument against 'author oughta be able to decide to work on proj with selected group in confidence' , why would i.
asciilifeform: i've read some possibly asciilifeform-able selections from it ( diana_coman's mpi ) , to date that's iirc all
asciilifeform: right. hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835598 , some folx can justify to themselves the cost , then why not, pay . there are projects that asciilifeform keeps in zeroizable ram while decrypted. it's a bitch, but in some cases called for.☝︎
asciilifeform: impersonal. the folx other than mircea_popescu , whose travel lappy doesn't go in diplo pouch and guarded in hotel by squad of musketeers.
asciilifeform: it costs for instance that you don't want it on travel lappy etc.
asciilifeform: hanbot: nobody cancelled 'need to know'(tm) and other traditional mechanisms of prolonging life of seekritz. but i find it worrisome that mircea_popescu seems to think that keeping coad confidential doesn't cost anything. it does cost.
asciilifeform: hanbot: of all the possible problems, i can't picture how this, enemy already has all the incentive one could wish for to 'try to work into l1'
asciilifeform: if they 'cloink' , either result is the usual unremarkable crud a la the 'fg clone' , or it is a sane production, in the latter case author gets invited here . in the former case, what exactly does it do ? afaik nuffin
asciilifeform: so hash could just as easily be an arbitrary client id string ?
asciilifeform: $shitclient operates. which unless i misunderstand was undesirable ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was speaking narrowly of scenario where $luser lifts $expectedhash from $officialclient and has his $shitclient feed server $expectedhash when prompted
asciilifeform: i dun think i've ever bought a product more exhaustively specified than allegro
asciilifeform: isp spec + their proprietary tack-ons were publicly specced )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835659 << iirc allegro was moar complicated than this, tho tbf i am unsure whether less or ~more~ scammy . it was a nonfixed price (no cost for src actually but had to 1) be existing customer and 2) sign seekricy contract ) and price of being customer in turn wasn't 'fixed' ( 'lispworks' co. iirc charged royalties ) . as for 'specified', this was 1 of the rare products where yes specified ( common l☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: consider how many 'insoluble' engineering problems vanish when you remove the nonsensical 'must work for 8 billion meatsacks' condition.☟︎
asciilifeform: ( observe that there is no reason why all of'em gotta answer to ~same~ l1 key. item oughta survive a defection or 2, if built correctly. )
asciilifeform: put a coupla dozen of these on each continent , and you get l1 'internet' .
asciilifeform: ( deadly simple algo : listen for packet at all times, if received one where nonce incremented and rsa sig is valid, that's now the new packet, and now it, instead of prev, gets pulsed ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831796 ) out )☝︎
asciilifeform: the sw repeater item, for instance, only becomes thinkable once you dispense with 'allcomers' and realize that there's no reason to forward anything not signed with l1 key, etc
asciilifeform: ( given as avoiding said wall of idjicy inescapably requires 'structure of authority' (tm)(r) )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835618 << afaik every single pseudo-gossipd ( and counting just the ones that proceeded past vapour ) ran head first into this failure of imagination, where somehow the only worthwhile payload is general-purpose derp ip traffic incl lolcats☝︎
asciilifeform: '...We ended up with a simple protocol packet: the Lulzpacket. This simple packet contains information to verify there was no corruption during the transmission and a random code to pseudo-identify the packet. We define the addresses of nodes in the net by their ability to decrypt a given packet. Addresses are derived from the hashes of asymmetric encryption keys, Every radio node defines its own address by the pair of keys it has ge
asciilifeform: but i'll admit to being puzzled re what is the win from it.
asciilifeform: Mocky: i in fact do not have objection to it either way, it is a stylistic decision for diana_coman & mircea_popescu , not mine to make☟︎
asciilifeform: Mocky: this is a q for diana_coman ? ( as i understand, it is meant to make the use of obsolete (currently published) client , moar difficult )
