39200+ entries in 0.358s
mircea_popescu: i'm not saying your work is worthless ; i am however saying it's
a difficult to price category.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i thought it was more of
a "umm... more of these ? ya ok."
trinque: ben_vulpes obviously said it better than I could have. the foundation's interests are in bitcoin; couldn't be more broad
a justification for involvement in society as the chairs deem.
mircea_popescu: in other words, there's no need to provision for "impartially" ahead of time, as you have
a (working, proven) mechanism to realise that jit.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing intrinsically wrong about wearing different hats.
a situation can be seen from different perspectives, why not.
mod6: Here's the thing, if the foundation gets
a board seat, who is to represent it impartially or what not? In the given case where I have 1 board seat from say 1 BTC, and ben has one from 1 BTC.
mircea_popescu: the reason you made that
a draft is so it's drafted upon neh.
mircea_popescu: so restructure the deal, have the foundation put in
a bitcoin, get
a seat for it, put
a coupla bitcoin each of you, get
a seat for it each, or whatever's convenient.
mod6: trinque: to me, it's not that expendature is inappropriate, that's not what I'm saying. I think trying to help Pizarro get off the launch pad is
a great thing for the Foundation to do.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-19 16:45 mod6: there might be
a better way to go about this without the Foundation's involvement. Like I said before, I could have just put up my own coin for this. Just again, as discussed yesterday, the thought was "Can The Bitcoin Foundation do something here to help Pizarro, for the Republic and the betterment of Bitcoin as
a whole?"
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-19#1784999 << there is, at the very least,
a defensible strongline in there : "since the foundation is entitled in 1 per thousand from all income in tax, it is necessarily acceptable for the foundation to invest 1 per thousand of capital in any and all ventures, as
a matter of principle. that chairs may opt to eschew this for many is
a practical matter at their disposal".
☝︎ trinque does not take
a position on whether it was appropriate in either direction
mod6: trinque: This is
a very good question, and so far, other than Pizarro, adds up to 1 renewal of
a domain name.
mircea_popescu: mod6 you can't have multiple managers. there has to be
a guy that stops the buck.
mod6: I also still plan to, if I can get
a few minutes here, to publish V 99993.
mod6: ben_vulpes: yeah, the SoBA is gonna be
a bear this month indeed.
ben_vulpes: i'd rather you invest those 5 btc rather than simply give them; it doesn't make
a great deal fo sense to 'give'
a notionally someday-profitable entity money and furthermore i'd rather you didn't just wash your hands of the whole thing if i can convince you to stick around.
mod6: What I'm offering, if it is more palatable, is for me to return the Foundation's money and make that whole again, and instead offer up
a 5 BTC private / or gift to Pizarro.
mod6: I'll admit that how it is with the 1-to-1 matching and so forth with asciilifeform, seems to be
a bit of 'bubblegum+shoestring', which, let's face facts, it is. This is somewhat of an emergency put together entity.
mod6: When thinking about how to re-structure, or re-word some of the Pizarro Charter, it becomes way simpler, and easier with The Bitcoin Foundation out of the equation. And probably would provide for
a better structure,
a more sound structure, perhaps.
mod6: And I believe that answer, passing the smell test, was "Yes, indeed it can." "This is
a useful expendature of the monies."
mod6: there might be
a better way to go about this without the Foundation's involvement. Like I said before, I could have just put up my own coin for this. Just again, as discussed yesterday, the thought was "Can The Bitcoin Foundation do something here to help Pizarro, for the Republic and the betterment of Bitcoin as
a whole?"
☟︎ mircea_popescu:
a mix. what can it possibly produce, what do you think this is, the cartoons ?
mircea_popescu: ah. yes, there was
a year and
a half long utter shortage of amphetamine. what can you do.
mircea_popescu: but, for his wasted "coin", back in
a day before coin was even invented, yet wots still existed, mp also knows as
a factual, rather than guessed matter, what all is down that road.
mircea_popescu: , let alone working anywhere today". yes, sure, and he's doing 16 doses
a day and he butchered two people, lawds mercy.)
mircea_popescu: (and, for the "missing out on career" random (and consequently almost guaranteed to run into grief) potshot : it so happens, like many other things do happen, that mp was in charge of
a town at
a point in its history when an amphetamine epidemic hit the (very, VERY competent, poorly equipped, badly overworked) medical staff. there was
a lot of "x ?! x is beyond brilliance, there isn't
a y surgeon like him mentioned in history
mircea_popescu: such
a fine rant it was, too! however, i looked over teh pizarro logs, an' there's evidently no room for it. so good for you! my poor rant, now has nowhere to go an' nothing to do ;/
mircea_popescu: in other news, ben_vulpes / mod6 , i had
a good rant all summoned up on the topic of "motherfucker, after years of watching me do business publicly, including the lot with bingoboingo, you lot revert to the tardstalk style of 'secrecy' the moment gotta stop nodding along and actually put hands into pie".
mircea_popescu: trinque should prolly make the public blog rss thing
a l1 blackballable item. ie anyone deedbot trusts can ask (in channel) for any item to be discontinued -- and it is.
☟︎ fromloper: Maybe no one here knows, but I figured it's worth
a shot asking. Your community seems very knowledgeable and security conscious.
fromloper: It's written in
a combination of three highly insecure languages (C, VAX macro, and BLISS), yet it averages very low bug counts.
fromloper: Interesting, although I feel the 50 btc fee might be
a bit high nowadays for attracting new users.
hanbot: phf> so by coming wednesday i'll release
a c differ, that conforms to current vpatch format, but will hopefully let hanbot finish the wp-mp genesis << kickass, looking forward to it.
mod6: I've gotta do
a few chores around here, bbs.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm getting dental work done tomorrow. I would like to blog the experience of turning 32 in Montevideo with Pictures, but I guess that can be
a separate blog.
BingoBoingo: <mod6> ben_vulpes, BingoBoingo, asciilifeform : Keep me honest here, am I missing / forgetting anything else that needs to be unearthed? << BingoBoingo sent
a tarball of fiat side paperwork, datacenter and BingoBoingo's South America allowance paid through march. Emotional back and forth on BingoBoingo's part of the sort where "Uruguayos can all fuck themselves" to "This place isn't so bad, but all the Uruguayos can go fuck themselves".
mircea_popescu: also, building further the (summary) testing infrastructure currently provided is imo
a legitimate way to patch upon the tree once complete ; and such work will prolly get sealed.
mircea_popescu: in other news : as work on eucrypt is winding down -- the whole item is just about complete, needs serpent and we've decided to add an oaep-rsa wrapper (mostly as
a pretext to do some ada-c interop testing), so roughly speaking by end of month it should actually be done -- we're moving on to shaping up the eulora client-server comms model. this will mostly be
a design discussion, will take place in #eulora, prolly take up som
mircea_popescu dug it up ye ancient manifest. there's 112 A3 and 10 A1s, of which iirc jurov got
a dozen back then, so i assume there's 76 and 10 left ; and 24 a3s with phf. ie
a coupla grand in today's fiats.
mircea_popescu: and since there can never be
a better time than the present time : following up on asciilifeform's expert advice, i bought
a crate of pogos um... about three years ago, jan/feb 2015, ie when the bitcoin was ~400. they're just as rare now as they were then, and they could have been bought today for the ~same i paid for them then. meaning i lost 95 bitcents to the bitcoin on this deal, for howevermany bitcoins i cared to sink i
mircea_popescu: so that you know, ben_vulpes can just press
a v tree when he needs to stand one up. and so on.
phf: mircea_popescu: well, i know that hanbot is waiting for
a vdiffer that can actually produce
a genesis from what she has, current one fails because of the whole -- regexing
phf: by wednesday after that, i'll add keccak to it, and by yet next wednesday
a c patcher that can eat
a proper vpatch
phf: so by coming wednesday i'll release
a c differ, that conforms to current vpatch format, but will hopefully let hanbot finish the wp-mp genesis
mircea_popescu: is there any interest in this line with current management ? get
a storage unit somewhere in uruguay, pile up all the pogos and other non-replenishables ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: anyway, to get back to the land of designs for
a second : the original idea for tmsr isp was that it'd also function as
a holder of valuable (ie, "no longer produced") iron. and it'd carry it on its books, giving it
a whole other kind of value.
mircea_popescu: phf yeah, actually, i should prolly take the rest of them from him, rather than stuff back in. they're long overdue. mind holding on to the grosse for
a little ?
mircea_popescu: it does occur to me that indeed tmsr-isp would make
a much better repository of "just in case" iron than danielpbarron who's trying to move. you wanna do anything with my large crate of pogos fellas ?
phf: i believe dpb is in between houses so there will be some time before he has
a reliable return address, but we've already agreed to as much
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 04:55 asciilifeform: it so happens that asciilifeform has purchased
a 50% stake in bisp. and specifically with one condition: that mircea_popescu (named, concretely) will not be
a back-seat driver there.
mod6: Well, that was the idea. Maybe not
a great one.
mod6: I don't think 'sheild/ralying' flag. More of "is this thing useful". Much to your question that I tackled you about
a few weeks back.
mod6: However, #5 seems like
a blocker.
mircea_popescu: so basically the idea was to use the foundation as
a shield/ralying flag as may be needed.
mircea_popescu: cuz we're of the tribe that believes that
a good deal.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 05:10 trinque: so leaving alf aside, when two folks dive on this boondoggle of
a business venture to right it, we're going to suspect their methods and forget their long reputations?
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 05:04 trinque: I'd say any judgment of how they're doing (at what,
a day in?) is premature.
mircea_popescu: "Looks like you tried to comment off
a stale page. Reload the article, count to three and try again."
ben_vulpes: yaok, i saw
a comment earlier. no idea how it got in there.
ben_vulpes: well, i don't quite know what you mean by "stretch capital". republic gotta have an ISP; and it should be able to turn
a profit and pay the foundation back. if it fails to do that, it'll be disappointing and i'll probably resign for mismanagement. initially mod6 and i were considering taking the entire venture on through the foundation when asciilifeform offered to match.
mod6: I'd note that we were
a bit reluctant to do this to begin with -- hence the late entrance to the venture. I think we were hoping that others would step and run it, but alas, no one did.
mircea_popescu: e is, "like
a republic but with secret agreements". and it proved (again, not to some sort of emo, but in actual practice) to not be good enough.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 04:43 mircea_popescu: now - wut of all of this ? maybe it was the same guy, i guess, maybe there was
a conspiracy to reboot the server, i guess, maybe etcetera. i'm unconvinced nor do i see it matters any.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 04:59 trinque: appears to me the gents are getting things together for
a clear, coherent offering.
hanbot: mircea_popescu basically they made
a constitution (
http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/A5yUZ/?raw=true / just moved to
http://pizarroisp.net/?p=3 ) yesterday, there's no releasing of whatever private discussions prior. they're going to do some power testing on customer boxes as
a courtesy. ben_vulpes is going to take
a few boxes there maybe next month. BingoBoingo "unsnarled" an mp-wp of unknown provenance, sadly he can't use the genesis item yet. some
hanbot: mircea_popescu sure thing, gimmie
a coupla mins
mircea_popescu: and this is the financial statement of why socialism is always and necessarily
a scam, while at it.,
mircea_popescu: ie, there is an unbroken tree of outright causes all the way to the prime mover, we don't say "this is
a scam" because emotionally.
mircea_popescu: but no, it wasn't
a personal loan to bb, it was
a loan to bb's corp which bb guaranteed ; but which guarantee i let lapse when i sold (ie, didn't transfer to you, ie, yo ucan't now ask him for 2 btc * 8k usd or w/e the exact numbers were)
mircea_popescu: mod6 the .8 was
a cash payment, the matter is entirely resolved.
mod6: (fwiw, I mearly read ".8 BTC debt to MP" as something of
a personal loan to BB since he was owner)
ben_vulpes: for
a convertible note like that, how'd you go about setting the conversion rate? lots of yelling?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: because, obviously, if i lend to someone who has 10% chances of surviving, i want 10x my money so i can lend to ten of them and get
a (slight, 5% sort of slight) profit.
mircea_popescu: mod6 consider it with numbers. if
a guy's survival probability is 95% and the discount rate is 5%, then for every coin he pays to service his debt, HALF covers the 95% and the other half the actual opportunity cost.
mircea_popescu: nobody teaches these (basic, really, should be highschool) notions, and so people don't understand how humanity is, and was built. but bonds are
a very sensitive actuarial tool, they react amplifiedly to death danger. whereas equity is
a very sensitive to gains. and more generally, finance is worth studying altogether, it makes one smarter.
mod6: Alright, so as things in
a start-up start to go south business-wise, for whatever reason, i.e. product sucks, whatever, the corresponding revenue/credit crunch makes it more and more difficult to service the debt.
mircea_popescu: if i lend
a btc to
a guy, in
a market where the discount rate (what AVERAGE capital returns are as per
a, like the "cost of hotel rooms in this season/city) is 5% and whose survival rate is 33%
mircea_popescu: like, the bill for the use of
a hotel room is made up of
a) the opportunity cost (what that room would have made if not given to you but to another) and b) the indemnity cost (ie, what all you wore down, ruined, stained and destroyed in there)
mircea_popescu: mod6 let's do
a side trip here and learn pricing of capital. so what would you say is included in the bill for the use of capital ?
mod6: Fair enough, I may have just looked at the debt to be paid to you at face value -- just
a simple bill that needed to be paid, as opposed to 'bonds' or something else.
mircea_popescu: anyway ; there's
a lot of business experience in disparate fields that has to be handled, and often the handling drives unexpected results and so on. part and parcel of the problem is that bitcoin ain't consumer finance and few people have any notion of anything else in that whole wide field.