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BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> twas on qntra earlier << Nah, shinohai dropped link and loled but no submission was found yet

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, it is lovely, a FUCKGOATS rng board could run for year+ on one.

mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 that "separate config file" references what i recall as a previous discussion. << aha, now i recall. I think the suggestion was that one could, from a config file, turn checkpoints on or off, or add new ones if they wished.

a111: Logged on 2015-06-24 18:15 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: can anyone recall why http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141218/bitcoin-v0_5_3-rm_checkpoints_41327b9a962e6d27869f4d361d742ab5c7061ede.5.patch didn't make it in ?

a111: Logged on 2015-06-24 18:31 mod6: ascii_field: re: checkpoints: the patch worked fine to remove checkpoints, but it was tabled for the time being. the main discussion around this was that it could be helpful to hvae checkpoints in there to prevent spamming of blocks from timestamps before a checkpoint.

mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 got al ink ? << i'll dig it up once im caught up here...

mod6: <+davout> did we just add tmsr-db on the todo? << there is a ticket for this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/trb_tickets.html#6

mod6: <+mircea_popescu> and so we are back to the original bitcoinfs. << aha

mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice. << there was a whole public discussion on this at the time. and at that point, i backed away from it.

danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, what do you mean lend-lease?

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 20:16 mircea_popescu: writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 20:30 mircea_popescu is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i, for one, do not know the answer

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is that 'normal people' drivers rely on there being a working pci bus, interrupt controller, etc. stack in the os, rather than programmed-bare-io

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most folks run for the hills when i say 'yes in asm, and no you don't get to use any existing code'

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact

jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 10**12 * ln(10**12) = 2.7631021115928547E13

jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 10**12 * log(10**12) = 1.1999999999999998E13

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have nfi what the dimensional tolerance is , in practice.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you wouldn't sit in a kindergartener's chair, wouldja

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ergonomics!11111

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:38 mircea_popescu: let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.

asciilifeform: or mircea_popescu's method.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: add '--solipsist' and be done with it..?

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice.

asciilifeform: as i understand, mircea_popescu objects , that this is an imaginary solution to the quadratic, that there is no physically plausible scenario that follows this path.

asciilifeform: somebody ( ben_vulpes ? ) ~did~ advance the argument that if martian lands and has enough hash, and wants to use it to orphan block # 2, he ought to be able to and we ought to live with the result, iirc.

davout: ben_vulpes: then no :)

davout: ben_vulpes: today's thread?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dunno about you, but my nodes are blackholed more often than not.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the death of the 'fat consumer' system is not optional, it's an exponential/runaway growth hallucinatory nonsense. the lizard deindustrialization program is in re the ~controlled demolition~ of same. ☟︎

asciilifeform: eh mircea_popescu probably earned the place a spot in target grid

asciilifeform: https://www.mailpile.is/blog/2016-12-13_Too_Cool_for_PGP.html << elsewhere in monkeystan

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:22 ben_vulpes: also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'choice' in the sense of that you're stuck choosing how to operate a node.

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:19 asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.

asciilifeform: e.g., http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=mapBlockIndex

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you can use jurov's viewwe

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: sometimes 'grandfather's pistol' problem is complicated when it becomes evident that grandfather never actually shot anyone with his pistol

asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not. ☟︎

asciilifeform: iirc we had a thread with mircea_popescu , who remarked that it is not obviously wrong to 'let'em'

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: let's do gedankenexperiment.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have nfi why you and mod6 did not pick it for a release, can only answer for myself. yes, the hardcoded header checksums thing is ridiculous. but no, there is such a thing as a historic, immutable planet earth blockchain, and trb ought to include default-on sanity check of ~some~ kind for long-ago blocks.

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em. << See steps 8 and 9

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html << the deterministic sync thing

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: all of the blocks in my chain validate per trb. (at one time i suspected that they would not -- but they do.)

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes not afaik.

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: and the rules were changed to permit these busted transactions?

asciilifeform: i even had it eat a blockchain that mircea_popescu gave me, from some box he had, iirc, continuously ran since the old days

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: worx great

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i did, several times

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 17:36 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.

jhvh1: mircea_popescu: zcash/ui.rc at master · zcash/zcash · GitHub: <https://github.com/zcash/zcash/blob/master/share/ui.rc>; sidecoin/ui.rc at master · AugurProject/sidecoin · GitHub: <https://github.com/AugurProject/sidecoin/blob/master/share/ui.rc>; quark/ui.rc at master · MaxGuevara/quark · GitHub: <https://github.com/MaxGuevara/quark/blob/master/share/ui.rc>

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron. ☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever diff'em?

asciilifeform: neato ben_vulpes , is this mirror somewhere / ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2016-12-07 22:27 phf: ben_vulpes: that archive has like dozen of access points, half of them regularly disappearing, a project for a lisp aficionado would be to archive it before it disappears completely

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm experimenting with not-attempting-every-possible-thing-with-own-hands

asciilifeform: hey you wrote it, ben_vulpes , so i'ma save the glory of the discovery for you!111

asciilifeform: betcha this'd be, what, 3 new lines on top of ben_vulpes's proggy.

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what was the root of this fork?

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes bear in mind that there was a non-compatible fork cca v2.0

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: quite likely it is stuck in the 'initialblock' idiocy, yes

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the peer thing also

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585541 << afaik your real problem is with http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790 >> and no, i do not know of any justification for this crud, imho it oughta go away and no one will ever miss it

mod6: mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.) << iirc was a trilema post

asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0037

mod6: mircea_popescu: ah. now that's an interesting argument.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unless i catastrophically misunderstand, for so long as we continue to count gavinistic payments as actual coin, and forgo 'trace to coinbase', there is a hole wide enough to drive a tank through, for conjuring coin from thin air

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ? << Election by Throckmorton's Sign!

mod6: i look forward to ben_vulpes's investgation on this.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in so far as i can tell, that union is at best a screaming idiocy, and at worst a boobytrap, it is a way to straight-out arithmetically munge a pointer without provoking gcc warning

asciilifeform: 0061 size_t n;

asciilifeform: 0055 template <size_t nBytes, typename T>

mod6: # LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getgenerate

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, you were referring to 'spin up trb node from 0 on real-life blockchain'. which more or less everyone involved has done, multiple times. his current thing appears to be the 'lan testnet' scenario i suggested a while back. where one pretends that the year is 2009.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no, not full download! that's trivial and everyone did it

asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0056 << and holy shit what is this.

asciilifeform: also imho ben_vulpes has a very spiffy project here and it deserves more brain cycles, he is actually testing the 'bitcoin on alpha centauri' scenario! i.e. replay of time, from genesis and up, in parallel universe, on trb.

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 06:55 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584697 << http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0685 ; wonder if funkenstein would be game to regrind his nuke_checkpoints patch

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585541 << afaik your real problem is with http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790 >> and no, i do not know of any justification for this crud, imho it oughta go away and no one will ever miss it ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you gotta be a serious 'alconaut', and accustomed to swallowing strange, to get there

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ~hardware box~ is becoming less common. most of the derps are watching on comp now.

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 14:15 mircea_popescu: https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com << in other lulz, the merchandise&media consumption affinities of "independent", "scientific" and you know, "advanced-civilised-progressive" ustards are pretty lulzy

a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 13:37 mircea_popescu: hand operations not worht it

a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 01:44 mircea_popescu: ~if i am~ a drug dealer and i burn down your house, you'll what ? file a police report ? go on the local news network with a teary eyed "no one could have predicted that if i get pissy with people who break the law for a living i might end up with a burned down house" ?

a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 23:46 asciilifeform: btw, ben_vulpes , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790

ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584697 << http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0685 ; wonder if funkenstein would be game to regrind his nuke_checkpoints patch ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.od43.com/1941_Eichmann_Rothschild_RB.html << 'your' rothchild chick lived?!

phf: mircea_popescu: csail (mit ai lab then) published "ai memos" from 1959 to sometime in early 2000s where they described a lot of "firsts" in computing in general. scheme spec was published by sussman and steele, lisp 1.5 compiler (first "self-hosting"), lisp machine architecture, etc. most papers are not so much ai as computing in general.

mod6: & mircea_popescu

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/41eWh/?raw=true

a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 12:51 mircea_popescu: also the enslavement of the general population, murder, rape, arson and jaywalking.

Framedragger: one day i fear of mircea_popescu going into recursive loop by being outraged by wikipedia definitions, using other terms to show his point, and then finding those terms to also be ill-defined on wikipedia. :)

hanbot: pete_dushenski belatedly it occurs to me the resolution (nearly three years in the making!) of the us courts circus research project (http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/) prolly deserves a spot in your year in review.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it ~works

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/7GmA4/?raw=true

mircea_popescu: https://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kumxxqzg3s1qa09ek.gif << pretty sure i had a higher res version on trilema but too lazy to dig

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-18#1585380 << grugq made a funny post at some point where he says that the notorious big's track "ten crack commandments" was all you needed to know about opsec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYb_8MM1tGQ which i thought was cool in that phrack gonzo way, but otherwise he's yet another infosec personality with all the trappings ☝︎