log☇︎
37200+ entries in 0.281s
mod6: I'll pull out my notes later today if you actuall want.
mod6: I'd have to go back an look, but I seem to recall trying to use it to create the trb patches, then inflate from those. and when I did, lotsa hunks/fuzz etc.
asciilifeform: mod6: considering that the example i gave ~is~ the totality of the trb tree, i'm a bit puzzled, what was it you tried ?
mod6: Did nasty things when I tried this with TRB. ☟︎☟︎
mod6: I actually did.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: Sent 8 hours and 46 minutes ago: <ave1> The gcc makefiles use gnatls to find the runtime system directory, they do 'gnatls -v | grep adalib'. When ADA_OBJECTS_PATH is set, that line will return two directories and the build fails. Could you past the output of gnatls -v? (I can fix it with an extra head or tail call, but that also seems fragile)
asciilifeform: trinque: didja ever get a chance to try the algo i demo'd in http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html ? what did you think ?
trinque: distinguish "tying up the leaves" from what I said?
mod6: I dunno, nevermind. Maybe will just have to leave this complicated work up to those whom understand it better.
mod6: I feel like that is two different cases maybe. That was the case of tying up the leaves.
trinque: how do I introduce a 3rd that doesn't abandon any it does not itself modify.
trinque: the problem is that I have two unrelated patches (in reality, not theoretically) ☟︎
mod6: Back in the old days, there was one tree. I'm still not sure what problem we are trying to solve with all of this.
mircea_popescu: fellow strikes me as intelligent in conversation, then i keep having somehow the exact sort of problems with him that i usually have with idiots : i have no fucking idea what's going on, and i have to twist arms to sorta find out, maybe.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-30 23:52 phf: well, i'm now convinced that manifest is an elegant, minimally invasive solution. i'll try it in a regrind.
mircea_popescu: it's still fucking broken. what's next, "we here at V house all halal, do graph by hand" ? and that's just one thing ; i have the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759100 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-30#1791593 chain ☝︎☝︎
hanbot: well, left branch approach does exist; that's why i was even able to put up the mp-wp genesis, after all. as for fix, sure an eta'd be better than no eta. i'm just sayin', doesn't look much like a runner to me.
mircea_popescu: i gotta be able to do better than that wtf.
mircea_popescu: well, so if i'm talking to someone that's not particularly keen on doing me any favours, what do i say to them ? something like "don't use v, it is broken" ? so they can ask me for how long it's been broken and i can say what, a month ? and they can then ask when it is going to be fixed and i can say "dunno" ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-20 04:05 phf: trinque: it wouldn't, i believe there's an antecedent->dependency transformation issues (i.e. the transform in mod6 v is adhoc, so it can't handle the tricky antecedent graph). the approach hanbot used was to just use the patches from the left branch of the graph, until, per mircea_popescu's request, i write a general purpose v graph code.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-25 19:40 phf: in any case i'll produce a fix by wednesday, but not before. this requires careful work
a111: Logged on 2018-03-25 19:48 phf: hanbot: note that http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-vpatch/#selection-147.0-192.0 i'm going to fix it by wednesday, but if you can give me an unsigned rough draft of a keccak mp-wp.vpatch before then, i'll be able to use it as a test
hanbot: mircea_popescu i noted several times in the last weeks/months phf was reporting pretty clearly what was being worked on, etas, etc, fwiw --eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-25#1789616 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-25#1786023 . it's gotta be difficult to keep absolutely everything not only organized but also organizedly communicated, eh. ☝︎☝︎
mircea_popescu: is the manifest issue fixed ? is the graphing done ? am i what, going to lose v now because i'm too polite to yell, and left to your own devices you're just going to break it, permanently, obscurely, and forget about it ? or what's the fucking logic here. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i suppose the "reasonable" notion would be to not start this conversation well past midnight ; but my expectation is that were i to wait till tomorrow, or till six weeks from now, it'll still have to be carried exactly in the same manner for exactly the same reason, so what the hell difference does it make.
ave1: !Q later tell asciilifeform The gcc makefiles use gnatls to find the runtime system directory, they do 'gnatls -v | grep adalib'. When ADA_OBJECTS_PATH is set, that line will return two directories and the build fails. Could you past the output of gnatls -v? (I can fix it with an extra head or tail call, but that also seems fragile)
mod6: I kinda dig the clothes-pins.
asciilifeform: i.e. to take over the old functions of usg.microshit.
asciilifeform: but i suspect that we came off conveyor with pretty much opposite set of antifuses .
asciilifeform: i hesitate to say 'none', possibly i agree with mircea_popescu's taste ~somewhere~
mircea_popescu: you are aware i was using it in the general, to denote the whole kit and kaboodle, high heels, proper posture, not being a lazy fuck, etc ?
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's orig point was precisely that... the clothespins dun do nuffin for asciilifeform . may as well be a hat with feather, or 9000 other things he's entirely insensitive to. and even the skins, i prefer the unedited ones. just-so.
mircea_popescu: i don't get it, they're secret ?
mircea_popescu: utterly unfucking watchable, i haven't even manage to get out of the establishing unrelated info part.
mod6: Once I fed it this string "ab6o78", that sprung the trap (see the GDB debugging portion near the bottom).
mircea_popescu: i see.
mod6: And now it makes sense because the initial test case I was using was all values in the normal hexadecimal range.
mod6: The thing that really threw me off during the analysis is that before and after test drivers were both yielding the same, correct, result. So I had to dig way in and debug to see exactly where to spring the trap.
mod6: The reason that I did the analysis so in depth, I wanted to absolutely get to the bottom of how bad this could be.
mircea_popescu: i still don't fully understand what it actually does. basically, breaks an init ?
mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000298.html << Lords & Ladies of The Most Serene Republic, enclosed is a defect I found in existing TRB, it's analysis, and fix.
douchebag: oh yeah I can do that no problem
mircea_popescu: what i want you to do is first run this as a pilot ; and then see if you can find boys wanting to earn.
mircea_popescu: the way this would work in practice is : ima pay people to post links to trilema with a 50-100 word comment on forums. i figure it's worth what, a coupla bux ?
mircea_popescu: so, i want to run a little experiment, see if bioware can actually outperform my machinery as it stands, and perhaps learn a thing or two.
asciilifeform: ( and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560740 , and there was a particular link some time in past yr which i now cannot find, where someone actually went and ~measured~ the reaction time delay of msdos, various winblowz boxen from past 20yr, crapple, bolix, etc etc and found exactly what i'd expect him to find ) ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ideally you want a 'polaroid'-sized box, i.e. a fungible cartridge that starts out as coupla grams of sandwiched $layers, and ends up after exposure as $ic
asciilifeform: ( and somehow admit the feedstock like film is admitted into camera, i.e. without introducing dust )
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 18:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i strongly suspect that 'polaroid' is the correct path. ( i.e. photographic input of where-what-goes; all of the chemistry needed -- sealed in a capsule, pops and exposes )
mircea_popescu: that's what my comment would probably have been directed at, i guess : that the religious notion of purity is not merely impractical, but counterfactual.
PeterL: I guess the religionsts would impart a different meaning to "clean" as well
PeterL: like I said, can't find it now, but at the time I thought of replying: cunt is self-cleasing when it self-lubricates
mircea_popescu: i don't specficially remember this ; but possibly. frequently used item generally in better shape than disused.
PeterL: mircea_popescu: I remember seeing sometime in the logs you said (but I can't find it now) something along the lines of: girls that have sex have cleaner smelling cunt than the one who doesn't get any?
mircea_popescu: i...see it. wtf shenanigans be these.
ave1: As far as I can see, the culprit is this part "-I/opt/gnat/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.4/rts-native/adalib /opt/gnat/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.9.4/rts-native/adalib/../adainclude", It contains a space in the "-I", so now gnatmake thinks it needs to build an "adainclude" which will fail. I'll look into how these vars a set. (It's the ADA_INCLUDES flag in the makefile).
asciilifeform: nor have i any idea from whence it could come, and where it exists.
asciilifeform: and i will point out that 'adainclude.ali' does not exist on ANY of my systems.
asciilifeform: ave1: i've confirmed that all of the paths, as they appear in the snippet, actually contain their respective items
ave1: Ofcourse, I will see how these flags influence the script and fix what needs to be fixed.
ave1: I've run on multiple systems (ubuntu and redhat), procedure has been to unpack the adacore binary file, set path and go (no ADA_*_PATH)
ave1: hmmm, I've never had to set these before
ave1: Yes, I will also try with those two flags now... (Could you try without?)
asciilifeform: ave1: i have http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XzKdk/?raw=true in my .bash_profile ( actually identical on all of my gnat2016 boxen )
ave1: asciilifeform: the exact same line in my build output shows almost the same -I directories, except all end with adalib/../adainclude, that last part '../adainclude' seems to be missing on your side. I will start a rebuild with some extra logging on that line. I will get back to it tomorrow. In the mean time, I have only set the path to the adacore gnat tools and I do not have any other GNAT* flags or CFLAGS or LDFLAGS etc. etc.
mircea_popescu: if only the guarantee of not being mediocre could be obtained, i could see myself blessing slavegirls with much longer travails.
mircea_popescu: heck, i am now contemplating the strict unthinkable years ago, a sane build process for eulora server o.O
asciilifeform: ( nor, i suspect, even knows how to conceptualize this )
asciilifeform: in the particular case -- i suspect simple failure of imagination.
mircea_popescu: my problem with the ZX processors IS EMINENTLY NOT that "they're too big". is that i can't buy 500k of them and lego them up.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, which brings us back to what i said, "even if not nm"
mircea_popescu: i'm not proposing the encapsulation doesn't havfe advantages. it does, which is why yes, laser paper universal as well as palcental mammals universal.
mircea_popescu: it's something like bullet. "hard to make gunpowder, need saltpeter" "i know, we'll make these little cartridges, with the needed saltpeter included" "yes but now you need a bullet factory"
asciilifeform: nope. and i'd think the diff is pretty clear
mircea_popescu: i don't dispute this is where it's headed, human reproduction system took the "we shall emulate original sea" step of eggs one notch further, yes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i strongly suspect that 'polaroid' is the correct path. ( i.e. photographic input of where-what-goes; all of the chemistry needed -- sealed in a capsule, pops and exposes ) ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 16:16 asciilifeform: ( for the sake of thread-completeness, what would the ~alternative~ to this story look like? i suggest -- it'd be a process which does to ic fab what 'polaroid' process did to colour photography. find way of etching the circuit from prefab 'sandwich' without caustic baths, sputtering, etc... )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806521 << i'll tell you what it would look like. every seen one of those large acid sheets back at the acid sheet factory ? before being broken into tiny bits for the street vendors ? THAT. except of course in reverse, let me print bits and smash them together into large fabrics. EVEN IF they're not nm. ☝︎
asciilifeform: recall the legend ( i have nfi from what country it originated..) re the clever scammer who sold counterfeiters 'dollar printing machine', which worked great until hidden box ran out of dollarz
mircea_popescu: i can't begin to describe how infinitely more mindnumbingly boring some moron derping on about priviledge, women's rights, blacks whatevers is when compared to any old bitty that wants to talk of nothing but cheap meals and best way to make prune jam.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-30 15:51 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806496 << first world "men" don't understand the concept of hygiene, i suspect that as the infrastructure starts failing this would be the number one reason of rapid decay. hygiene not just in a sense of "washing hands", but the idea that there's certain procedures that you have to follow in order to not get fucked over by the environment
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the well of knowledge, pushing the infinite boundaries of darkness towards their core that spawned them, i give you... WOMAN! https://78.media.tumblr.com/dfa482d3716c7dd79d85a2ccf8dcff60/tumblr_nraxucVa9S1ribksno9_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: well, i always thought polkovnik is a guy who brings graft money.
asciilifeform: i.e. like подполковник ( lt colonel ) to полковник (colonel)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i expect submasalah is the hottentottenmutter stottertrottel version of sub[missive]-massah-allah.
asciilifeform: ( and yes i ran it, and possibly in 3hrs i'll see what came out of it, but currently i suspect that it's gonna build 32bit elfs )
asciilifeform: ave1: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cSP4C/?raw=true << is what i see. doesn't answer the riddle
ave1: look at build-ada.sh (I did not update the documents etc)
asciilifeform: what am i missing
asciilifeform: btw ave1 the only WITH_ARCH i see in your text is 'armv7'. so how does it work on aarch64 ?
ave1: The only system I was unsuccessful so far was a machine without static libraries
ave1: Yes I have developed and run this on a computer without musl
asciilifeform: ave1: ( have you tested this on a box that has never seen musl ? ^this is what i got. )
ave1: A sorry, I stand corrected, it needs to be an absolute directory name
ave1: i.e. you can copy them to other dirs if wanted
asciilifeform: ave1: so where ought i to set this dir ?
ave1: I.E. it's the directory under which all the compilers will be installed
ave1: Aha, I should have cleared that one, it will be overridden by the build-ada.sh script
ave1: I made a mistake on the earlier assertion, it works on glibc machines
asciilifeform: because atm all i've got is glibcmachines