log☇︎
35800+ entries in 0.345s
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ty fxd
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my puzzlement is re the continued existence of 0fee in conjunction with 'blocks are crowded.' can you picture a city where trains are full to bursting point, but they continue letting a third of the passengers in for free ?!
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu nails it, the block subsidy makes it largely uninteresting to bother with squeezing the most tx fee from every available byte of ullage in block
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it is a market, it is 'buyer's market'
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 22:04 mircea_popescu: i certainly don't keep nodes for "our democracy", as discussed recently.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619482 << right now, keeping a node is -ev for almost everyone who could be doing it. only oddballs with countereconomic motivation of one kind or another (e.g., trb experimenters) , plus miners themselves, plus serious txers ( e.g., mircea_popescu ) have a desire to do it. there are not so many of these. it is rather like relying on entirely on coprophagics for your sewage disposal needs. ☝︎
asciilifeform: seems like oddball masochism gear, i've never seen it outside of mircea_popescu's links..
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol what is what, a veterinary autocastrator ?
mircea_popescu: in other news, https://media.8ch.net/file_store/b2dedbb82ca691f8f645b2ce243853a6438ce7bbddb6c67d095da7104953cbc0.jpg << why do redditard dwellings ALWAYS look like the same fucking homeless shelter, cheap stuffing all over the floor etc ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik you couldn't.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phrased this way, it elementarily falls down. q was whether you could do the deed ~without~ promisetronics
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it 'wants to be free', tell me my p and q aha.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: idea is that market gets to twiddle the number, neh
asciilifeform: actually i know an algo that does this. will post it later, if it isn't obvious to mircea_popescu et al after a few minutes' thought. ☟︎
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Heckler & Koch VP70 - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%2526_Koch_VP70>; Hk VP70 The gun that changed it all - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D0Wq5_3rkqd8>; Heckler & Koch's Historic VP70 - Tactical Life: <http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/heckler-koch-historic-vp70/>
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: tldr - asciilifeform failed to square the circle
asciilifeform: and (as iirc mircea_popescu observed also) it would reduce to ~same situation as today, where the folx with the serious hashing iron would eat ~all of the cake, and everybody else gets to do the laundry.
asciilifeform: ( now! for all i know, they wrote directly to mircea_popescu . but notice that he is not burning with the desire to share this fact. the secrecy incentive remains even for folks N degrees separated from a known miner ! )
asciilifeform: even though such high rollers as mircea_popescu , sometimes transmit tx through it.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 20:07 mircea_popescu: can you presently count the bitcoin networks that exist ?
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 23:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because the bitcoin network bandwith far exceeds the ACTUAL transaction needs of the civilised world.
asciilifeform: atm mempool works as a 'meat market' where the eligible chixx stand around, waiting, hoping for a serious mircea_popescu to show up and take'em home
asciilifeform: ( the above ^ now that i think about it, could be simplified to mircea_popescu's earlier 'node accepts if you put an output to his addr in your tx' )
asciilifeform: this may very well resolve to mircea_popescu's unsolved 'blind inputs' problem.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu here's another crackpottery in re the nodes/miners/txers 'racul, broasca si o stiuca' : ~multistage mining~. where a node can encumber (protocolically/mathematically - for now i will not specify how) a tx with some proofofwork, when passing it on to next relay; and when the tx is mined, the block reward is split between the multiple parents of the final tx.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 17:11 mircea_popescu: consider http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615679 ; nobody seems much perturbed that THE FIRST TIME A TRANSACTION WAS HEARD OF WAS WHEN IT SHOWED UP IN A BLOCK.
asciilifeform: this is not a strike against mircea_popescu's algo -- imho it is direly necessary
asciilifeform: (given mircea_popescu's algo, they more or less must vertically integrate.) then there will be equally little point for nonmining nodes to operate as there is today.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 18:39 mircea_popescu: reported by the miner that included it, as best i can tell.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 23:22 mircea_popescu: basically nodes are the digital equivalent of women : men fuck them so the state can have babies. hurr durr, pill plox.
asciilifeform: incidentally mircea_popescu's algo doesn't force miners to ~relay~, necessarily, blocks
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: orlov phrased same lemma with different pieces -- '90s ru produced a dictum, 'don't lend more than it'd cost the creditor to take a contract on you'
a111: Logged on 2015-09-29 10:10 mircea_popescu: who knows. the venetians spent all their time training the girls to be whores, lost to charles on the field then won in the bedroom.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when it makes it into a block -- king and slave alike, are doomed to spend cycles on it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: just to make it absolutely clear, i don't see a long-term future for satoshi's turd. all of my work on trb is to be regarded in same light as the neutron-absorbing armour on 1970s sov tanks -- something with which to prolong the life of the crew ~slightly~ so that it can drive over freshly-nuked ground and last a few hours of shootout.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would have to have some equivalent of fs journal
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 23:22 mircea_popescu: basically nodes are the digital equivalent of women : men fuck them so the state can have babies. hurr durr, pill plox.
a111: Logged on 2015-02-14 17:42 mircea_popescu: unrelated datapoints. half energy available \being used to mine bitcoin makes bitcoin safe for humans (safe in the sense of, won't be overrun by the altcoin problem)
asciilifeform: to revisit much further upstack, to http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-14#1018732 ( via mircea_popescu's latest article ) -- consider a 'trb-i' where a tx carries proof of work, and is likewise mined as is the block ☝︎
asciilifeform: to revisit upstack: mircea_popescu can you think of any reason not to queue the writes ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that 'agreement' is brain-melting
mircea_popescu: there is, of course, http://cache.olympusamerica.com/static/msg_section/documents/2016/Anti-Kickback-Statute---OCA-Deferred-Prosecution-Agreement---Fully-Executed.pdf
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 12:30 mircea_popescu: (story there was, olympus "hired" aka finally accepted its first foreign devil ceo (michael woodford) in 2011 ; and fired him two weeks later as the dude was principally dedicated to the job of, how can we finance usg out of this japanese corp. the usg however didn't go home, but started "legal proceedings", which eventually resulted in the above theft, plus whatever office supplies woodford managed to take home. apparently 6
asciilifeform: in other noose, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/with_cache.txt << the cache thing, to current time ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 13:18 mircea_popescu: and in other brown-shirts-with-gray-trim news, https://qz.com/919678/srinivas-kuchibhotla-muder-the-infuriating-silence-of-donald-trump-over-an-indian-engineers-murder-in-kansas/
mircea_popescu: https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/ap_17058207841866-e1488176685278.jpg << holy shit look at that, every single one of them IS FUCKING FAT omfg wtf.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 02:58 trinque: ben_vulpes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VcIWx/?raw=true << behold the wtf
trinque: ben_vulpes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VcIWx/?raw=true << behold the wtf ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 40-80 secs. verifications are still 15x slower than on zoolag (ssd box). i wonder, possibly , if the remaining delay still consists of disk -- but of block fetches, rather than tx index.
asciilifeform: ^ very puzzling result, and now finally similar to mircea_popescu's 'disk and Other Factors'
a111: Logged on 2017-02-26 19:26 asciilifeform: dbenv.set_cachesize(4, 0, 1); // 4GB of contiguous cache
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-26#1618699 >> possibly not wholly useless: >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/g97IR/?raw=true ☝︎
asciilifeform: it is the kind of thinking that gave us prb. as mircea_popescu described earlier today.
asciilifeform: (and this is probably not measurably slower, in practice, than what mircea_popescu did)
asciilifeform: that's what's in mircea_popescu's patch presumably.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what did you do with the index if power failed (or node -- crashed) or whatever disruption ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as per yesterday's thread -- running node per se is 'expensive and unrewarding activity' aha!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plz consider publishing your patch where you made this happen; it is not a trivial change
jurov: if enemy can reorg half of your blk_files, some sync latency os least of your problems
jurov: waitwhat, it *writes* to old blk_... files?
asciilifeform: the thread today where mircea_popescu sees something with even the superficial silhouette of a cheap prbistic hack, and barf mightily, taught you nothing, jurov ?
a111: Logged on 2017-02-26 19:26 mircea_popescu: now then : a fix for the db would significantly improve a few classes of block verification delays ; and it would alleviate blackhole-like behaviour due to that, node's frozen checking a new block. there's at least 3 different dos vectors for other nodes, and a) the foregoing wouldn't help ; b) if it helped the enemy could easily upregulate the crapflood to compensate.
a111: Logged on 2013-05-13 22:39 mircea_popescu: it's screwed wtf.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's the longest reorg you've personally observed, to date ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:18 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if martians produce longest chain with greatest difficulty i think by the rules of the game they own bitcoin
asciilifeform: dbenv.set_cachesize(4, 0, 1); // 4GB of contiguous cache ☟︎
asciilifeform: and i will point out, none of my findings so far contradict mircea_popescu's original 'it sits and waits for the disk.' only question was, where.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-29 23:20 asciilifeform: type2 ( pete_dushenski's ) is the garden variety shitflood. which is sometimes solved by ip ban, but only in the case of 'shrapnel addressed to occupant', i.e. idiot prb nodes wildly spamming crapolade, and not in the 'bullet with your name on it' case, where somebody actually has a sybil constellation drowning your trb node in liquishit, with no SINGLE ip misbehaving in any way
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you, using my patch or similar, determined that type1 (verification) blackhole consists of any substantial portion of something other than db wait -- i'm all ears
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that was in re the verification blackhole (the most common type observed on dulap)
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/nonblockverifying_blackhole.txt
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes , mod6 , et al :
mark_00123: hi mircea_popescu
deedbot: mark_00123 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!up mark_00123
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes , mod6 , et al: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/FEYhA/?raw=true << thus far on dulap. << very cool alf. wow @ 'ProcessBlock (res == 1) took : 218863ms; db write wait: 175065ms'
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 23:39 mircea_popescu: you could, in theory.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 23:22 mircea_popescu: basically nodes are the digital equivalent of women : men fuck them so the state can have babies. hurr durr, pill plox.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu nails it.
asciilifeform: ( can mircea_popescu or any other oldtimer even explain to me why 0fee ever existed?? )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: answrd
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if 'a' can shit out tx, 'b' shoulders the cost, but unrelated 'c' is paid by a, you have socialistleak.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, it was 'junkyard wars', plain and simple
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 18:33 mircea_popescu: no because government does thart for them hurr.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 20:03 mircea_popescu: the pill to socialism is market. make things marketable, no further problems.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'cosigner' not in the idiot 'multisig' sense, but in the banking sense. 'this unencrypted input GUARANTEES validity of this tx, but if blinded input turns out valid, it does not get balance substracted.'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: last i heard, they set up a 'parallel whitehouse taiwan' to 'report' on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's what the 'trusted computing' / 'fritz chip' / etc. thing was about. and that it was about this, was obvious in 1995.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu no longer satisfied with the historic 'there's no taint damn you all to hell' solution to subj ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how do you propose to force miners to include a particular tx ?
a111: Logged on 2017-02-23 18:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the important point there is : the whole fake bitcoin address (3something) is supposed to be "useful" in practice. this utility is supposed to be proven by idiotic "challenges" like this one put up by peter todd. EXCEPT the output does not actually SIGN the transaction claiming the bounty.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as in, 'fuck you, i won't relay this, your addr ends with my auschwitz tatoo number' ?)
asciilifeform: i am at a loss as to how this problem is solvable in general case. aside from mircea_popescu's answer to my 'panopticon' thread, 'don't get caught in a jar!'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is inevitable fact of life, boxes live and die, wires are cut, new ones -- laid, etc
asciilifeform: (see mircea_popescu's earlier point re imposing cooperation on castles)
asciilifeform: what we afaik don't have is 'incentive for node-keeping' algo (though mircea_popescu's partially solves this, by requiring miners to have healthy nodes)
asciilifeform: to outline what we have so far : we've a 'must have all blocks' mining algo, from mircea_popescu ; we have a O(1)-verify-of-any-and-all-tx-and-blocks algo from asciilifeform (today) ; and we also now have a 'limited cpu cost for tx' algo.
asciilifeform: trinque, mircea_popescu : the reason for my 'want-block' gedankenexperiment, is the 'high vacuum' line of thought from earlier. because any way you cut it, an unexpiring tx is a kind of cheque for unlimited number of cpu cycles from the rest of the world
trinque: mircea_popescu: ah yes I do. I'll need that pgpdump guy, store what's extracted from the key
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to defang gpg, must prevent it from writing to ANYWHERE on disk other than stdout