log☇︎
32000+ entries in 0.019s
spyked: asciilifeform, sure. it's surprising that it works "for some values" even, imho. to illustrate: http://archive.is/9Ssvh#selection-71637.0-71641.16 <-- saucerful of barf
a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 09:06 spyked: the weird part is that the linux tcp stack ~works~ for the most part. I imagine the maintainer of that particular subsystem must be a neckbeard with 20+y experience in tcp (because sure, it's not only the implementation, the protocol itself is a mountain of complexity)
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 21:44 mircea_popescu: made slightly mroe interesting by it having been written before rather than after linus went dumb.
spyked: and then looking at e.g. https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v3.10/source/Documentation/CodingStyle , one can readily notice that half or maybe more of the tcp code doesn't meet that minimum set of criteria. and yet... it's there. so, I guess re. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902966 he was prolly dumb from the very beginning ☝︎
spyked: the weird part is that the linux tcp stack ~works~ for the most part. I imagine the maintainer of that particular subsystem must be a neckbeard with 20+y experience in tcp (because sure, it's not only the implementation, the protocol itself is a mountain of complexity) ☟︎
diana_coman: by now I suspect most code out there is the fungus sort as that's how things "naturally grow"
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 19:44 mp_en_viaje: spyked, some very sad http://trilema.com/2017/the-world-has-changed/ shit right there.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 21:36 lobbes: As it stands I have two full pages of hand-written notes with various c and apache-stack likbez, and that was just so I could understand up to line 152 of https://github.com/mbattyani/mod_lisp/blob/master/mod_lisp2.c (only 900 or so lines left to eat). I most likely will publish these notes as a blog post once all is said and done
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915245 <-- in other c coad, /me spent his last 2-3 weeks looking at the tcp stack implementation in linus' kernel. it is truly a fungus, macguyvered with duct tape and rubber bands, such that changing one line almost anywhere breaks shit all over the place. ☝︎☟︎☟︎
spyked: and I guess I'd prefer starting from code already battle-tested by L1 (in the form of a tarball + ksum?) rather than shithub, and turning _that_ into a genesis. although I suspect I'll have to dig deeper into the heathenpits of git commits anyway.
spyked: in particular, I saw trinque, phf and ben_vulpes have been using it in the past, so I'd appreciate any input you have on the matter ☟︎
spyked: so far I've been looking at the project changelog and the patch history and the patches seem like a mixed bunch, with (perhaps) some useful things and breakage a la sslism. so before going further, I'd like to get some idea of what version of hunchentoot the lordship and the L2 are using
spyked: *for the genesis
a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 21:36 lobbes: http://www.thetarpit.org/posts/y05/090-tmsr-work-ii.html#selection-197.31-205.258 << I wager there's a good chance you'll publish a genesis of tbnl/hunchentoot before I eat through mod_lisp, but I agree: as pieces emerge, we can sync up, regrind as needed, etc.
spyked: good morning, #t! following up on the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915244 thread: I've started reviewing hunchentoot, the first step would be to figure out which code base to use as a starting point from the genesis. ☝︎
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/balkan-tensions-rise-with-serbian-military-on-alert-after-kosovo-police-persecute-ethnic-serbs/ << Qntra -- Balkan Tensions Rise With Serbian Military On Alert After Kosovo Police Persecute Ethnic Serbs
asciilifeform: ( to date -- no reports of a live specimen of constructed wedge chain, afaik )
asciilifeform: theoretically if you built with 'dumpblock', can debug this scenario by hand.
asciilifeform: ( it'd be easier to say something concrete on this subj if ye olde shitoshi had actually included a reasonable set of debug knobs. but, unsurprisingly, did not, and made it quite difficult to retrofit, also )
asciilifeform: to round out this thrd : asciilifeform suspects that some unknown but nonzero % of 'perma-wedged noad' cases, are accounted for by adhoc attempts to carry out this experiment
asciilifeform: by constructing a set of successively-longer reorgable chains that take X 'on credit to allcomer' buffers to actually evaluate
mp_en_viaje: " and dbs -- trb ALSO should keep track and sum the hash weights.
asciilifeform: nao that i think about it, iirc we indeed had thread where calculated that with 10 or so % of total hash horse , could frag the net ~by orphanage size~ ( us, 0, heathens, a range of x's )
mp_en_viaje: but the good news is that fixing this is free. simply write the protocol correclty, and let whoever smartass make "bitcoin cash the real bitcoin
mp_en_viaje is sad to be right each time
mp_en_viaje: i recall at least a half dozen of these "nope, nm, mp was right"
asciilifeform: from the 1000000-byte block thing, to this
asciilifeform: it's funny, erry yr or so asciilifeform goes 'bbbut i distinctly recall, protocol went like x' ...then dig in the sores again and 'mno, instead did the retarded thing'
mp_en_viaje: there's a romanian derrogatory negative that exactly sums this problem : "din parti" ie, "no fucking way" (literally, "made of parts"). thisis what satoshi made, the "longest chain" of "highest early block and largest total block count". this does not actually sum to "best chain"
mp_en_viaje: so, in short : to find lulz in bitcoin one needn't indeed look far.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: theoretically even nao 'longest chain is the 1 with highest hash' . problem is that this takes arbitrary space to evaluate.
mp_en_viaje: rather than this sad sum of parts.
asciilifeform: but iirc i never published this ( not that it's hard to make ) , cuz wasn't burning ( and still unsure whether this was the right approach as such )
mp_en_viaje: what should have been written, and from out the gate, would've been function to sum all diffs, and declare longer chain == highest hash.
asciilifeform: hence why asciilifeform wrote a 'cement' mechanism, where you can explicitly feed in a signed list of hashes to newborn noad
mp_en_viaje: but this is also orig author braindamage. "longer chain" has NO NOTION of "proposed chain sigm-adiff"
mp_en_viaje: now, this "wouldn't work" because reasons to do with handwave.
asciilifeform: therefore there's an intrinsic wot component in noad bringup
mp_en_viaje: my chain, being both a) longer and b) having a "better" early block, is therefore the "longer chain" in bitcoin sense.
asciilifeform: there's no monotonic component in the diff eqn.
asciilifeform: any # that'll fit on yer disk, really
mp_en_viaje: so, real chain weighs 1bn and block #2 weighs 1, i make fake chain with block alt-#2 weigh 2 and total chain weigh 10mn, in 1mn blocks.
asciilifeform: and indeed no need to match diff
mp_en_viaje: i do not need to match difficulty block by block, see.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, to block 1mn or so.
asciilifeform: ( observe that it is rather inexpensive, using current-day iron, to bake a phony chain from genesis to... blk# 200k or so )
mp_en_viaje: this is currently kept off the table by hand.
mp_en_viaje: then i could continue this way to block 620k. just as long as i have both a) longest chain and b) a more difficultuous block sometime early on, my chain is technically, by protocol rules, the true chain.
mp_en_viaje: i could (in principle) produce an alternate block #2, very cheaply, but of higher diff than the true block #2. this then ~should~ be accepted by syncing node.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 22:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrelated to anyffing: i have a tentative thing that eats a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864354 and gives trb option of replacing 'checkpoints' with it ( i.e. on boot, tests all already-stored blox against it, and if any blox in the tape are not yet present, then it requests & accepts them and only them, 1 at a time ). do we want this for field use ? (if so i can put on conveyor for cleanup)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i still suspect that safe bringup of a noad where certain blocks are immediately stored in readonly form requires some form of a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865197 ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: moreover, this discussion illustrates a major flaw in current bitcoin protocol -- it does not correctly judge SUMS.
mp_en_viaje: start with 100%, change when to what feels like.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this is potentially risky when node is young .
mp_en_viaje: so then all that's needed is a % rule. "99% means, graveyward starts where the last 1% of total difficulty starts"
mp_en_viaje: consider the following line : 1. the only meaningful measure of tx mutability is the hashpower that went into mining its block ; 2. consequently, the mutability of tx 100k blocks ago is ~= the mutability of tx 600k blocks ago.
asciilifeform: well for 2-level db ( 'nursery' where blocks that are thought to be part of the snake's tongue that may still reorg ; 'graveyard' where errything else ) does require a number.
asciilifeform: granted i cannot say how he ought to have decided on concrete number 'down below which not mutable.' he would've had to 'guts' . ☝︎
asciilifeform: can point to ~concrete~ braindamages of orig author that resulted in the sad db. one was the expectation that tx 'down to genesis' are mutable 4evah; the other, the idea that 'utxo set' is what matters to fetch quickly, rather than ~any~ tx
mp_en_viaje: what i'm sayng here is, that a trb w/o the rainbow tables is shipped defective, like a car without wheels or w/e, toys without batteries.
mp_en_viaje: for other uses, just not load it in memory. but trb gotta ship with them.
asciilifeform: it's a ~linear trade of time for space tho, conceivably could use same scheme with various sizes of table, at predictable cost
asciilifeform: for uses where absolutely gotta fetch arbitrary tx in O(1) , indeed >=32G
mp_en_viaje: it just happens to need >32gb ram much like it happens to need >100gb hdd
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, thinkign about it, there's just no way to have a proper trb without the rainbows. and yes it'd be 32 gb, but so what. the point stands, there is a minimal bitcoin box. ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: im sure his vultr comes with 192gb ram and a takedown notice if you allocate >@
asciilifeform: ( the remainder, end up asking for a second lookup )
mp_en_viaje: 32gb is a lotta unrolling in this context. and yes, not terribru idea, seeing how dataset is >100gb
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: no elaborate massage needed -- simply need 32GB or so hashtable . ( who wants, can dig up old thread with the exact algo, atm asciilifeform's hands somewhat full )
mp_en_viaje: only if that properly involves a whole lotta unrolling. which, im not even callin a bad idea
mp_en_viaje: ie, one day per year ellapsed (and yes, this will stay linear)
mp_en_viaje: if 90% of time were spent in verification ; and if verification were ~correctly~ MT, then extant blockchain could be verified in roughly 10days / corecount.
asciilifeform: this is true even with 'aggressor', the latter merely asks ~newly connected~ peers to give blox
asciilifeform: it's spent waiting for someone to 'please drop a block in my gaping mouth'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: most of the time aint spent in verify tho
mp_en_viaje: this is true
BingoBoingo: Don't forget the more important part. It takes time because verification IS NOT sad
asciilifeform: still gotta add, that trb bringup takes weeks not because the set weighs 100TB ( as erryone already knows, it's below 300GB atm ) but cuz the sync mechanism is rather sad
mp_en_viaje: "cogentco doesn't give me ip" "ever wondered why ?" "you mean there's a government conspiraci ?" "no. i mean there doesn't need to be one."
a111: Logged on 2016-07-04 21:47 mircea_popescu: but better keep movin' an' don't stand still - if the skeeters don't get you the gators will."
mp_en_viaje: there's a list of ("independent") fixations. even if patient finds way out of one (thereby becoming ballas' "single issue independent"), the rest still remain.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc this is 1st recorded such case ( d00d took the sweat to build trb, note that there ain't a '4lusers' binariola package or anyffin of the kind) but then went and planted it on a lolhost
a111: Logged on 2019-05-28 16:22 nocredit: another question: if i run core without using segwit features (so sticking with the 1 starting addresses) am i actually protected from an eventual attack on segwit? I know that here is not core support, but there is a way to tell core to dump the segwit part?
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-28#1915806 << yes, if you use bitcoin addresses you're protected from scammers trying to get people to use non-bitcoin addresses ; no, the scam unwinds on its own time not on yours (or anyone else's) time. you similarly can't tell MMM to "stop pyramid scheming" in 1995. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: holy shit, vps too. dude, go away.
mp_en_viaje: by and large, a time penalty for being late equal to the square of the years passed seems the lowest possible bottom limit. so, if you start today and sync in less than a century, you're getting off too easy.
mp_en_viaje: "how long will it take me to read all the books ? IT SEEMS UNREASONABLY LONG!!!"
a111: Logged on 2019-05-28 16:11 nocredit: first of all i'd like to ask what is a sane time for sync from zero to 100%
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-28#1915778 << honestly, i don't even see this as a legitimate question. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: i think he lived there.
mp_en_viaje: what's that, pinoy lang ?
asciilifeform: if i knew tagalog, i think i'd try an' keep it seekrit, lol
asciilifeform: 'can translate Spanish and Tagalog. sorry if you think this is spam'
mp_en_viaje: guy's trying.
diana_coman now realises this should have been on #eulora
diana_coman: why would it do it like that for each and every thing?
diana_coman: lolz, given earlier thing, possibly not :P
diana_coman: it still seems over the top; it's enough if client has a known list of preferences and asks for them in that order, after all; if it doesn't get that, it goes for next and so on
mp_en_viaje: this design permits fallback ("i want to see dynas but if absent gimme joes" sorta setting)
mp_en_viaje: oh, they're a mesh ?