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asciilifeform: this being said, 'mining is a bug'(tm), if i knew how to gruesomely slaughter all miners while keeping something like working bitcoin net, i promise to say how.

asciilifeform: right nao we only have blox because chinese d00dz i've never heard of, and dun expect to, run ~trb-compat proggies. i've nfi if trb per se helps this state of affairs to continue, but for so long as it continues, oughta at least not interfere, imho.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun propose to 'help' heathens somehow against will. but imho anyffig that in any way makes trb noad harder to stand up than strictly must -- yields terrain to enemy.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 02:16 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the seed funding it provided for pizarro for instance seems a very legitimate approach, "if your project has merit you get a little bit from foundation, helps other people commit." this works well in pantsuitlands too, but i suspect because it;s sound objectively.

ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855843 << absolutely. however i see risk of a tendency to 'lender of last resort' misbehaviors if unchecked (by whom?! forum clearly. which you address in your point re not throwing out everything the pantsuits touch.) ☝︎

mircea_popescu: i mean, take trilema. it's the job of http://trilema.com/2018/fetlife-the-next-derperation/ morons to a) find it ; b) read it and c) change their lives to fit ; on their own time and on their own dime. it's not fucking trilema's job to "ensure" a b or c for the morons in question.

ben_vulpes: "ensure access to the mainline set of patches" was the best i ever came up with for an operating thesis.

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the seed funding it provided for pizarro for instance seems a very legitimate approach, "if your project has merit you get a little bit from foundation, helps other people commit." this works well in pantsuitlands too, but i suspect because it;s sound objectively. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: i suppose in a sense it's very much a question come to fore, "wtf is foundation actually expected to do". i know for myself it very much is expected to not do anything like hinder keccak adoption, but this seems both a small and a remote point. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855799 << twasn't obvious it is substantially a wart. i mean, if we end up cutting off everything the pantsuit attempt or attempterd historically to steal the trappings of, we'd be left without words. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 01:01 ben_vulpes: by and large i saw the responsibility to ensure that the reference bitcoin client source stayed available to the republic, although at the time i recall a more "to everyone" flavor in my own thinking.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855796 << i think this narrowed down over time in everyone's mind, as the shocking incapacity of "the everyone" to step up to the plate became ever more enshrined in experience. ☝︎

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i see no gain from putting any obstacle in front of anyone, heathen, chinese, martian, good, evil, who wants to run trb .

ben_vulpes: mm, i didn't mean to suggest 'republic only' trb net. it is however a pretty sane client for the extant network, and perhaps there is value in gating access to such a gem from teh hoi polloi. what with trinque's impending hotwallet patches and his demonstration of their value with trb services, the gem will become only of more value.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm genuinely curious if i'm missing something subtle .

ben_vulpes: i do not advocate that tbf hide the sauce away, dun fear

ben_vulpes: inner popscu suggests "what, as if its used by anyone outside the republic anyways? if joe blow wants a sane client (which republicans should be mentioning in their blogs etc), he can join the republic and ask for the vpatches." but perhaps i'm undercalibrated.

esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1855058 << as to this, the initial release (this weekend) will use gnupatch. I tried to design the thing so that I can swap out the patcher for my own afterwords. eventually my own mcilroy should make its way in. ☝︎

ben_vulpes: did what, as far as mod6 and i could tell, it needed to.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 23:29 trinque: which incidentally is a great segue to hey esthlos, when am I getting such a thing with which to cuntoo?

esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855654 << hey trinque, I plan to have this for you by the end of the weekend. hope that works ☝︎

asciilifeform: but ftr i would see death of tbf as a substantial republican defeat

asciilifeform: otoh whether to work it is entirely board's, i.e. mod6 & ben_vulpes decision, not mine, i am not on tbf board

trinque: yeh, this is why I prefer strapping myself to a business requirement for trb working well, rather than joining up on TBF

ben_vulpes: by and large i saw the responsibility to ensure that the reference bitcoin client source stayed available to the republic, although at the time i recall a more "to everyone" flavor in my own thinking. ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: to date i haven't conceived of how to make trb into a subscription service ( my 1 attempt at the problem was the 'wires' item ) but this should not discourage others

trinque: no, recall I move my arse to a printer and hand crank all !!withdraw currently

asciilifeform: trinque: i.e. the item currently in use, where !!pay x y ?

trinque: as it stands the deedbot wallet project is a hand-cranked charity I run, really want to see that thing move towards paid subscription services before I take on something else.

asciilifeform: mod6: i concur with the nomination

mod6: I think trinque would be a great candidate for Foundation Co-Chair. (As I've said before).

asciilifeform: without rock-solid trb, there is no bitcoin , at least not in any shape i'd particularly care to be connected with.

mircea_popescu: i mean, let's not get too anachronistic, most of the things that are "forever held true and known" today have been invented last wednesday ; at the time tbf was invented, none of the notions of collaboration meanwhile spawned out of v usage were even apprehended. not even a glimmer in the lords' eyes...

mod6: Overall, yes. I think we need to determine if the entire thing is worthwhile.

mod6: I used to collaborate much more with the man, but he's been afk for quite some time.

asciilifeform: mod6: ftr i'm 100% satisfied with your work as trb chair

mod6: mircea_popescu: not at all. I'm proud to do the work.

mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: and wouldja rather be doing sumthing else ? << Yeah, I think four years is enough, I think someone else should take over.

mircea_popescu: i kinda have in the back of my mind this impression that poor shane's ended up stuck with a large number of loose ends to juggle. ☟︎

mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6 : how much time approximately ~does~ it burn ? << I'm not even sure I can put a number on it exactly. I put a lot of time in. It's a huge responsibility.

asciilifeform: is why i left the q for mod6 .

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno, hard to evaluate for me.

mircea_popescu: in principle. but our values are very much in the vein of debirocratization, after all. somehow i fear it's more of a haskellism than anything.

mircea_popescu: i dunno that we've exaustively tried that angle, nor do i think we must drop everything and try etc. we're currently well invested, i'm not protesting it.

asciilifeform: and yes i'd luvv as much as errybody else if a battallion of civilized folx were to materialize out of somewhere and donate, or even run nodes. but they are evidently scarce, mircea_popescu beat the subject of 'sane people ~extinct' just about todeath

asciilifeform: i dun blame mircea_popescu for pissy, current state of affairs is bad for blood pressure unequivocably

mircea_popescu: you're right, i'm just pissy.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i disagree, btw, that 'epsilon', march-current is when the aggression thing was deployed & tested to exhaustion, and gave proper ~realtime block propagation for 1st time since trb birth

a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 23:32 phf: (i'm not up to date with log) trinque: i can post a patched v.py that works with vtools, i have some free time sunday evening to prep it up

a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 23:31 mircea_popescu: i'd much prefer not to see a flood of sha patches seeing how http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851879 had to exist because "apparently not aware".

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855663 << i'ma hold off on further patches, even experimentals, until regrind, if mircea_popescu says 'hold' ☝︎

mod6: Yeah, I thought the thing was fixed and the archives were moved, too. But may have been mistaken.

asciilifeform: and i was under impression that this was declared done

mircea_popescu: i dunno.

mircea_popescu: which w/e, i recall this was the case a while back, cheap instance or w/e.

mircea_popescu: if i have to run a balance sheet putting the active on one side and passive=delayed-keccak-adoption on the other side, it's coming out in the red as it stands.

mod6: This is true, I kicked in 10 BTC of my own, even.

mod6: I didn't mean to piss ya off with my comments above, Sir.

mircea_popescu: exact same as so far, i reckon. winge and whinge and wring our wrists and worry about it.

mod6: I actually would have figured you'd want me to ensure a smooth transition with the correct tooling. Not jump into something before we're ready.

mircea_popescu: i won't even say anything about any of that, seeing how http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-27#1830030 and so on. ☝︎

mod6: Only thing I've been held back by is lack of time as I've been way overwhelemed by all of the Pizarro work.

mod6: I certainly wasn't held back by no keccak. Who said that?

phf: (i'm not up to date with log) trinque: i can post a patched v.py that works with vtools, i have some free time sunday evening to prep it up ☟︎

mircea_popescu: i'd much prefer not to see a flood of sha patches seeing how http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851879 had to exist because "apparently not aware". ☝︎☟︎

mod6: And I don't think I'm try to wreck anything by being methodical.

trinque: which incidentally is a great segue to hey esthlos, when am I getting such a thing with which to cuntoo? ☟︎

mod6: I'm not saying that we shouldn't move to keccak, just would ideally have a tool that supports it.

trinque: now I can as well.

mod6: i seem to be able to curl that url above, np.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-01 13:13 jurov: Till I set up everything, static mirror of btc-dev mailing list will be here: http://161.0.121.248/ml/btc-dev/

mod6: asciilifeform: I dunno.

mod6: (at least, I thought so)

mod6: I'm not sure where the mailman front end is hosted.

asciilifeform: mod6: i thought it was moved to pizarro ?!

mod6: that's weird. it was working better, or so I thought :/

trinque: I'm getting a cloudfront error!

asciilifeform: trinque: manifest is done, i built on it in the experimental item linked earlier

trinque: lovely, I'll have to dust off my wallet excision patch and submit too

mod6: I've even got another vpatch I'm about to submit too. Was testing it lastnight, in fact.

trinque: ah! great! sorry, I missed that

trinque: I have patches myself which are sitting on the sideline waiting for the manifest, which I was under the impression you're working on

mod6: I've been working on it quite a bit.

mod6: I want users to be able to get a vtron, as they do now, with v.pl, then build trb in very much the same way they are able to today.

mod6: <+mircea_popescu> the one useful thing here would be to get trb properly ground already. << I'm probably not going to do this until there is a vtron that supports keccak.

mircea_popescu: everything. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. My understanding is that I can just let her alone."

mircea_popescu: d the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied

mircea_popescu: "I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbi

mod6: asciilifeform: ah cool, thank for the post. I'll read/try it when I get a chance.

asciilifeform: i'ma guess it's on mod6's conveyor already.

asciilifeform: i'ma post some grep ProcessBlock debug.log > whogave.txt once it runs for a spell.

asciilifeform: and i used the www box !!

mod6: I like this duck with his dubloons. may his wings carry him swift, and his feet paddle him apt.

mod6: I literally can load the entire block chain in like 8-9 days.

mod6: And it was her legs that got me, I think.

mod6: (maybe you did, who am i to judge. lol)

mod6: I think you must have an iron stomach -- the ability to publish such specimens of humans and not barf outright.

mod6: and i kinda like there is competition here