log☇︎
25500+ entries in 0.239s
mircea_popescu: what some psychologists then turn around and measure as "integration". but in any case, it's trivially evident that ~the world~ may be good or bad, but not the subject. observable at all scales, from the freeranged girlfriend of your choice to the us propaganda discussing aleppo/mosul. ☟︎
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: as regards that particular point, you are probably right. but what do you mean by "i-ontology"? the latter becomes wibbly-wobbly
mircea_popescu: Framedragger we need no such thing, "0" means the same in the language of the commutative ring R as "nill" means in the natural language above.
mircea_popescu: it's not just that computing isn't thought ; what happens in the brain is also not reason. as far as the logic is concerned things may be whatever they are, but in the objective development of the subject there's an i-ontology and a world-ontology. this disjunction is or is not resolved in time ; but from the subjective development it was never a problem in the first place.
Framedragger: because first of all these are not the same thing. we would first have to introduce, say (as an example), peano arithmetic atop set theory, and go from there. "multiplication" is a diff beast. why not division? etc etc.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger you don't so far find it to be an idea altogether, as best it can be determined.
asciilifeform: also folx regressing to the use of wot as reddit upvote ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 17:13 mircea_popescu: as to the blue hair issue : if you can't produce a member which has non-blue hair, the proposition stands ; and if i can prove you can't (which i prove by showing there's no elements in the null set) then the proposition evaluates to true.
phf: i usually just switch context when stupid shit is said, but this time i politely pointed it out, which tbh produced an opposite effect of what i expected. in polite circles when somebody goes as far as to point out that somebody is confused, it's an invitation for further introspection, not to loudly double down.
mircea_popescu: also practical, at that. god can stay god for as long as gets in no one's way.
mircea_popescu: but it's only red inasmuch as it's a herring
Framedragger: hey i thought trinque unrating phf was a stupid reactionary thing. don't use this as a red herring.
trinque: what was never volunteered in the thread is the practical usefulness of the behavior as seen in the programming language mentioned
mircea_popescu: i still love the captatio of that sort of guy. it always reduces to "here we show this is controversial". as if THIS has some sort of merit or value.
mircea_popescu: ((and mp was never as unimpressed with chomski as he was when the guy tried to deploy a cantor proof lite without saying so.))
mircea_popescu: anyway. for completeness let it be stated that perceived problems of thought-computing mismatch are thoroughly a matter of perception, and in principle can not be fixed (other than fixing the perception). it's the fundamental problem of "ai", as derided often enough here (see the "what if you name the procedures something other than "understanding" etc ; see also chomski's attacks on "ai" centered on the constructed repeating
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem generally is that "all things" have an ontology and a gnoseology, which is separate and so trivially separable even the greeks were privy to it (hence plato's ideal objects) ; except for the void, which is AT THE SAME TIME the absence of ontology and the plenarity of gnoseology. which is to say, the same "thing" at the same time doesn't exist (ie, as nil) and implies everything (ie, as "false").
mircea_popescu: as to the blue hair issue : if you can't produce a member which has non-blue hair, the proposition stands ; and if i can prove you can't (which i prove by showing there's no elements in the null set) then the proposition evaluates to true. ☟︎
Framedragger: (imho lisp's use of nil as false *is* incorrect, even if you disagree with "every member of the empty set had blue hair" having to be true. it *is* an unholy confusion, falsehood != nil.)
mircea_popescu: note however that many languages (which aren't english) allow purely constructive usage ; such as adjectival forms constructed from nouns, the noun of a verb and the verb of a noun and so following. depending on semantics bagumpa is blerpy could well have a truth value - if say your definition of is includes an equivalency class for all elements starting with the same letter.
mircea_popescu: i know it's commonly taught as equivalent, but saying "x doesn't have an y" is not the same as saying "x's y is nil"
mircea_popescu: Framedragger if your semantics allows for it. whether they do or don't is not the same as the truth-value BEING nil however.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584114 << that's fine, except that the empty list is nil which is used as false. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-03-28 13:11 mircea_popescu: upon consideration, i see no reason to continue supporting or otherwise encourage kakobrekla's bizarre worldview. on the contrary, i view further involvement with the nonsense as considerable moral hazard, and a miserable thing to do altogether.
mircea_popescu: math ~in terms of~ set theory ; or functionals (as the math thing, not as the cs thing) ; as opposed to computering.
mircea_popescu: anyway, all this is becoming ever more interesting as the great again summoning will probably imply something that to the japanese will seem like us unreliability creating a disparity with china wrt nukes.
mircea_popescu: xide can work as redox catalyst, can oxidize methane).)
asciilifeform: the hilarious part is that the ~actual~ impetus for the funding was lizards who understood that eventually someone ~will~ find a way to gas'em; and as soon as it became clear that the antidote will not remove all sequelae from gassing, the funding -- evaporated.
Framedragger: i agree, and there is the whole utilitarian framework to be considered in specific instances, such as, "make bloodmoney now, to be invested for quantifiably more good later", etc.; still, it's a nuanced thing...
Framedragger: in my quotes file, as a reminder...
Framedragger: "It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter."
asciilifeform: as if anybody but the socialists could have paid for the bomb.
mircea_popescu: on which note i should wish to muchly encourage the ~competent~ youth to not fear "suicide" of this nature. it's a control artefact implanted by the socialist motherhood for their detriment, a sort of imaginary pain box of the bene gesserit. there's no reason to even HAVE a "group of women who don't fuck" as a political entity, let alone ridoinculous imaginary boxes.
mircea_popescu: this has A LOT to do with the mechanisms discussed in http://trilema.com/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/ ; and so unsurprisingly the us marxists came up with all sorts of funny theories as to what "japan was really like" economically.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 12:47 mircea_popescu: not only does it mirror how we learned programming as kids (i did circles in a for loop in basic, obtained a nice worm guy!) but it gives an immediacy to lisping absent ANYWHERE else.
mircea_popescu: not only does it mirror how we learned programming as kids (i did circles in a for loop in basic, obtained a nice worm guy!) but it gives an immediacy to lisping absent ANYWHERE else. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: so it is somewhat moot. they might as well advertise microsoft powerclip + yahoo briefcase as a solution, for all the difference it'd make.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: obtw, re. http://trilema.com/2016/internet-census-2016/#selection-21.0-21.13 it should probably say "Back in June", as it was june. the second scanning event was in july, but all of phuctor's finds thus far have been from the first scan in june
Framedragger: trinque: that's sorta fuckin' weird. "empty set as first class citizen" something something...
pete_dushenski: https://medium.com/opacity/the-syrian-war-condensed-a-more-rigorous-way-to-look-at-the-conflict-f841404c3b1d#.u85dggdtt (http://archive.is/oBRmn) << taleb on syrian situation. as a civilised sort of fellow, he's pretty staunchly pro-assad despite having plenty of room for personal grievances against the regime.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this will be a pretty big one, as far as these go. i imagine it'd soak up 1-2 hrs of your time.
mircea_popescu: people in gaming always go "oh, it's always possible" and then point to the death of lord british as a definitive example.
mircea_popescu: there's some "b2b" app somewhere printing the banners as instruction sets or wtf.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: from peterl in contravex comments : "I could be wrong (have not ordered one yet myself), but isn't the cardano a sub-piece of the FUCKGOATS? So they are delivering a bigger, more complex, more useful item (but later) than what they originally planned to sell?" i must say i missed this difference b/w fuckgoats and cardano as well. i guess i'd assumed that the latter'd been renamed to the former
Framedragger: (i should write down some stuff before i forget, such as, figuring out ssh-keyscan limits etc.; luckily i wasn't dumb enough to delete any scripts written etc...)
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 18:03 Framedragger: "also, anyone want to run a ssh server key spider ?" << heh, k, i'm up for this, might as well be useful while i brood
asciilifeform: next time (as inevitably must) that i regrind phuctor and its db, i'ma stuff these in retroactively
Framedragger: (note, some of those version strings contain OS string, some of them don't; these TXTs store versionstrings-as-they-were-seen, without any ssh-server/OS version separation.)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: not sure if you'd make use of this, but since i needed this myself, may as well link to it -- ssh banners for all ~16M ssh servers: http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/s1/s1_banners.tar.gz
pete_dushenski: time frame a smidge. my first draft was every bit as correct, if not moreso in regards to the commencement of his influence on markets. trump ain't rollin' in no horse 'n' buggy and no one's waiting to read about his acceptance speech via pony express. it's 2016 dawg and news travels like you wouldn't believe.
mod6: i always wanted to moonlight as a zamboni driver
mircea_popescu: i think that counts as a freejew
pete_dushenski: lol. being chinese is so fucking opposite of being a jew i don't even know where to start. number 1 selling book in nigeria might as well be "how to raise child like a norwegian"
mod6: as far as broken moduli? or dups?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have never hated a people, or anything, even vaguely in the same ballpark as i hate these mutant retardoids.
mircea_popescu: as if teens don't wanna watch it go in
phf: yeah, but as a "porn only" niche, tumblrs that would occasionally post porn mixed with random other found junk all disappeared
phf: before tumblr mayogendered there was a tumblr weird internet culture, thatused to post porn, internet explorer running on windows 98 screenshots, weird 3d renderings, porn, lisp screenshots, etc. basically the whole scene got destroyed by mayer with the whole "all porn is now marked as nsfw and force removed from all the search results". the weirdest, shoot-self-in-foot
mircea_popescu: 768 apparently has been decided by hitler as THE TALLEST PERMISSIBLE NUMBER OF PIXELS.
mircea_popescu: notice, of course, that a) it is the same exact height and therefore b) it is idiotically arrogant enough to imagine being so much bigger it can afford things such as... mandatory windows title bars.
mircea_popescu: so in random sadness : back when i was a kid, resolution of everything was 1024x768. today as i am no longer a kid, thanks to progress etc, resolution of things is 1366x768, which is OMG SO MUCH BIGGER.
thestringpuller: it's interesting to see the crusty remains as the waterfall continues to dry out
trinque: as with fuckgoats -> cardano, sell every useful increment towards goal
mircea_popescu: scheme as in, lisp ?
asciilifeform: how does c-os on c-machine work as 'blob free' ?
mircea_popescu: it's not as bad as it seems - eg fiat's mouthpiece can now put me as #1 most influential thingamabob in "blockchain" discreetely.
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as a signature's weight.
BingoBoingo: Summer of N+1 as usual!
BingoBoingo: In similar news, Christmas Shopping for the frugal: Buy a Christmas Tree. Have the bottom limbs stripped off and cut it in half so the top becomes a small tree. Slice the now detached bottom log into disks. Score the bark on the disks with a knife. You now have a tree and tree scented disks to give as presents.
BingoBoingo: Except I don't get to play with the food as much.
asciilifeform: (to briefly revisit upstack, for log readers, 'prolog disease' is when a language is designed in such a way that in the course of normal operation, you routinely ask the machine questions which may well be np-hard to answer; and at any rate the correspondence between the algorithmic complexity of your proggy as-written and the resulting instruction stream physically as-executed, is something other than obvious)
mircea_popescu: in wetware these are stress-switched (which is why "stress" even exists in mammals) ; but i don't expect hardware to be able to reconfigure my machine from one to the other - just as long as it does either well i can buy two machines.
mircea_popescu: as per the first, returning "nothing there" wrongly when i scan hill will result in wolf eating me; returning "wolf" when nothing there will just result in more checks, no biggy.
asciilifeform: as someone who ~likes~ 'functional' languages, etc., i still must point out that it is a highly questionable business to use a language where there is not a simple, kindergarten correspondence b/w each line of the program and what the machine physically does, for safety-critical equipment.
mircea_popescu: phf as per naggumg quote ; quite exactly my mind too : there not existing cleverness is more valuable to the empire-of-idiots than any gains from clevernesses they realise.
asciilifeform: i considered ml as a very, very close contender for 'an ada'
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes jurov haskell is domain specific for domains we're not as of yet interested in ?
asciilifeform: it wasn't even acutely painful, just same sensation as if you had sat on your hand for a while
davout: aha, as in 'really painful', probably not same thing then, body more concerned with "aaaah, injured" than "blergh, poisoned"
asciilifeform: thing even came with conductive grease, quite like what one finds in descriptions of electric chair, when head is shaved and lathered so as to conduct well
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 17:22 davout: hey! i still use ms word as a vim simulator!!!11
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582772 << i use ms excel as msfs simulator! ☝︎
davout: i distinctly remember getting on the train to paris as a kid to go buy the full game
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit orig. thread, the thing i found appealing about 'air shooters' as a boy, was not the abstract 'grease wank' of 'oooh, engines, and gears' but the quick-with-your-eyes-hands-feet-shootout aspect of the game, which is not something that exists today in meatspace even in actual air combat (where you program the rocket, fire, and go home)
asciilifeform: in usa this is even officially permitted, you can buy certain types of machine and fly unlicensed so long as you do it over the ocean where nobody has to clean up your smashed carcass
davout: "certified as long as you don't get caught"
thestringpuller: How do pilot lessons cost 10k?!? Perhaps having cohorts in the boondocks has its advantages such as farmers with planes...
asciilifeform: davout: is 'gyrolaser' where you live same thing as what english call 'ring gyro' ?
davout: i had no idea such a thing as a gyrolaser existed
asciilifeform: davout: afaik that's about as much fun as being a bus driver... but iirc it pays well.
davout: probably not as bad
asciilifeform: davout imho is correct! vim needs a sim! to train on, so as not to die in the real deal.
davout: hey! i still use ms word as a vim simulator!!!11 ☟︎
phf: i have same reaction to sims as mircea_popescu to counter strike, so when you say sim i think xplane, or precusors like mfs (that i hear some still swear by !!1)
asciilifeform: as mircea_popescu once pointed out.
asciilifeform: but it typically costs ~same to go to 1000km in it, as in a passenger liner.
phf: but anyway, it's fun. not quite the same as a sim, i've no idea what these people are on about, but worth it if you have the cash. in fact if you can stretch 10k over a year, getting a license is not a bad idea
mircea_popescu: as it stands right now, lm can not confront its obligaitons to creditors (aka, bankruptcy) if it loses as little as 20% of us expenses.
mircea_popescu: for what it's worth, could be a lengthy pile of perl just as well.
mircea_popescu: ovel as they think it is, where they can make mistakes without being corrected by people who do know better, where they can reap all the benefits early in life instead of having to work for 40 years first."