25300+ entries in 0.014s
BingoBoingo: AHA, up until Clintons got out,
things like stretched F-22 based light bomber were under consideration. All fell
to
the one
true plane.
Then McCain fell. Wat do?
mp_en_viaje: obama didn't do
this bondogle ; pelosi was derpy but moderate and in general silent, clinton was rather supportive of better solution.
the old women responsible are very much
the (nowadays mostly imaginary) non-trump republicans
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 15:51 BingoBoingo:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925819 << Gulf War and
Tailhook
though were
the impetus for
the F-35 "Joint Strike Fighter" with a window free from fearing foreign men,
the old women were able
to push
through a "one
true plane"
that excels at nothing.
mp_en_viaje: "It was not only born in my mind and heart, in
that meeting held in March 1919 in
the little hall at Milan, it was born of
the profound and perennial need of
this our Mediterranean "
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 14:02 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925809 << recall mussolini's 'get as much value from it right now before it's worthless completely' of ww1 gas in ethiopia ? i suspect
this is exactly
today's 'stealth'
mp_en_viaje:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925827 << except it's not
two agents, but more like
three
to five, and
they behave like children in spite of being
this current civilisation's specific heroes (id est, older men with knowledge). it's like if
there was ru folk
tale of "then
the
three ilya muromets fought each other like morons while potato blight
took over
the land"
☝︎☟︎ BingoBoingo: Then
there's russia going all in on
the air defense missiles. It's not
the
truck with 4 launch
tubes in
the press photos
the US dun like. It's
that
the S-400 is a group of
trucks, 1/3 of which have
the big
tubes and which coordinate
together for a substantial radar picket
BingoBoingo: Along
the way carrier based Joint Strike fighter F-18E/F "Fat Hornet" was ready in
time
to face goat herds in 2001 and cripple Iraq in 2003
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 08:38 mp_en_viaje:
this obsoletes "stealth"
technology, because you can lie
to a few people all
the
time but not
to all
the people all
the
time.
there's no way
to scatter radiation so
that none of ~uknown-position~ 1e5 radars sees it. and with modern
telecom and computing, it's
trivial
to link
these so any can detect scatter from any.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 07:24 mp_en_viaje: happens
to also be
the only useful application of
sintering known, but
that aside.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 08:38 mp_en_viaje:
this means a race
to
the bottom, everyone who paid for stealth wants
to get as much value from it right now before it's worthless completely.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 07:02 mp_en_viaje:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925756 << in fairness
though,
the design of an object with particular refractive properties is necessarily more software
than hardware -- it's
the ultimate "measure 10mn
times cut once" item, for each shape
that ends up being built, 10e10 or 10e20 or w/e alternative shapes are investigated, ray-traced...
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 05:37 mp_en_viaje:
they call it musket
a111: Logged on 2016-04-28 16:43 mircea_popescu: shinohai it should perhaps be added
that a decade ago, when romania was fresh in nato etc,
there was a joint exercise, with romania being designated
the bad guy because
they flew migs.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 01:34 BingoBoingo: Well, it lead
to Gulf War 1 and
Tailhook.
Those lead
to "Joint Strike Fighter"
mp_en_viaje: bitcoin, amusingly, supports just
this ; is as much and as large a chunk as rocketry.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 14:27 mircea_popescu:
there is no, strictly speaking, reason
that iron MUST be provided on
the surface of a planet just like
the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone
through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on
the surface. but it did not.
mp_en_viaje: people, once again, happened
to have
to do just what
they seem
to have been wanting
to do anyway ; if
this doesn't meet your criteria for
benevolent divinity,
then byoe.
☝︎ mp_en_viaje: of
the civilisational
trend represented by above military discussion.
mp_en_viaje: and yes, like bourgeois of old paid
to be in
town, because have
to upkeep walls,
there's going
to be "real man", who lives in rocket-defended perimeter ; and freeranged animal, outside. a
trend already visible ~irrespective~ of
the actual military evolution, described eg by mocky in quatar, by BingoBoingo in uruguay etc. walled compound is artefact of same cultural
trend as here discussed ; and it arises prior
to and independent
mp_en_viaje: usg-can-not-win-in-afghanistan will spell a "new era for peace" like
the "japan can not defend homeland" spelled "new era for peace" : a different kind of peace ; one
that involves
the
trade in recently captured 16yo precious cuntlets and all
the fantastic stories of seafaring in
the castle age.
mp_en_viaje: the integration
trends, with "international order" and usg ngos "based on brain-kellog pact" bla bla will revert ; disintegration ("ghettoization" in butthurt fanfic) is
the new
trend ;
this had been culturally visible for a while, but it
took a sharp civilisational
turn with
this military development.
mp_en_viaje: the
thing with cn-style rocket is
that
they're 100% defensive mechanism ;
this fundamentally changes
the rules of
the game, reverting
the situation (previously,
tank, 100% assault mechanism, revolutionized
the previous situation, fortification, 100% defensive, etc)
mp_en_viaje: but it is intrinsically worthless, because it is ~actually cheaper~
to build radars such as "stealth" dun work
than it is
to build radars so it does work. and "stealth" comes at huge production (discussed above) and aerodynamic cost (alluded
to above). so
that's
that for
this idea.
mp_en_viaje: this means a race
to
the bottom, everyone who paid for stealth wants
to get as much value from it right now before it's worthless completely.
☟︎ mp_en_viaje: this obsoletes "stealth"
technology, because you can lie
to a few people all
the
time but not
to all
the people all
the
time.
there's no way
to scatter radiation so
that none of ~uknown-position~ 1e5 radars sees it. and with modern
telecom and computing, it's
trivial
to link
these so any can detect scatter from any.
☟︎ mp_en_viaje: but, coincidentally, since
they were building 1e5 rocket sites,
they decided
to also build 1e5 radars. cuz it makes sense, i guess, passibely, whatever.
☟︎ mp_en_viaje: consequently,
they covered every available surface in small rocket launchers.
that's
that, china is atm militarily immune
to rest of
the world.
mp_en_viaje: in 2000s, cn
took 2nd strategic decision,
that rockets many-and-tiny, as opposed
to large-ish (scud) or huge (icbm). if you've ever played orion,
this is equiv of
the early "mir-v" revolution
there, game changer.
mp_en_viaje: china became actor in 90s,
took strategic decision
that weapon of war is now rockets.
this happens
to be sound ; and it obsoleted
the us model entirely, and
the russian model partially (exceptionally good jets still useful, if you can provide
the pilots -- ru can, cn can not).
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 01:21 asciilifeform: afaik is questionable whether item had 'difficulty' in
this sense
to begin with
mp_en_viaje: oh look at
that, ever-so-useful monkey-man "spellchecker" doesn't approve of sintering. because holy shit,
psychopaths, using words outside of
the outer realms of monkey-man
knowledges a111: Logged on 2016-01-31 02:07 ascii_rear: BingoBoingo: watch
the film at least until where
the sintering machine appears
mp_en_viaje: isn't it "of fucking course"
this is gonna cost way
the fuck more
than machining a flat surface out of silicon carbide ?
mp_en_viaje: then you're looking at 5 GB of data PER SHAPE. and
the year is 1980, meaning 40MB hard drives are cool as fuck, and
there's no such
thing as SSD (read :
they're fucking slow)
a111: Logged on 2019-01-04 17:18 mircea_popescu: why
the fuck didn't i
think of
that.
mp_en_viaje: if each of
these produces a mb of data (and boy howdy, does it! for one
thing...
there's MULTIPLE radar bands, yes ? each of
these scatters differently, because wavelength, and no, also not necessarily continuous function, because diffraction and other "unexpected"
facepalms)
☝︎ mp_en_viaje: and it's a 3-d object, meaning it has 72 such planes going all around. each with 72 such points. so we're at 5k
tracings, for ONE single shape, and on a generous presumption of "every 0.09 rads is fine".
mp_en_viaje: now look at it : a circle is 360 degrees, so you'll have
to "look at" (ie, run
the differentials, calculate scatter)
the object 72
times. once every five degees.
mp_en_viaje: so you
talk it over with your boss, who doesn't know math which is why he's in charge of you (because he's unlikely
to
turn fucked in
the head like ~everyone who knows math
tends
to), and you agree five degrees stepping and presumption of contiguity between. because fuck it, gotta decide something. (in reality more complex
than
this, but what can i do).
mp_en_viaje: could
take a shape and produce
the functionals.
that's not even here NOW, in spute of how fucking obviously
the right
thing it was cca 1989 ie 30 years ago -- all
the
mp_en_viaje: suppose
they give you
the money
to
try
this. but you DO know how
to calculate observable scatter from point
to surface, but... it's not exactly a continuous function (trivially, because your surface is not continuous, you're not flyin ga sphere, and so not integrable, and moreover, you absolutely lack
the '''mathematical computer'''
that
mp_en_viaje: now, evidently
this is useless
to multi-radar systems -- but as long as you manage
to keep secret what you're doing, so
the others don't know how important multi-radaer and passive radar systems are,
they'll prplly continue on
the mega-radar
trend of
the 70s (as
they did in
the 80s) and miss you. for a decade or so.
mp_en_viaje: let's just go
through
this for
the sake of being clear and explicit. so, suppose you decided
to build a "stealth" plane, meaning : you've found in
the archvies of russki radio
technologies a piece from
the 60s detailing how flat surfaces will scatter radio signal AWAY from
the source, and
thus in encounters with a single radar, you can design a 10
ton, 100 cubic meter object
that looks like a square centimeter piece of duppel, on
mp_en_viaje: even with
the computer it was subsonic, unmaneuverable sadness. complete glass cannon, by 1999 even
the yugos could down
them.
mp_en_viaje: f19 item is eminent point in case, ~nobody who saw it
thought it could fly. because, objectively, damned
thing can not fly, it's so unstable in all
three planes it needs a computer just
to stay afloat. which, of course, means it needs 4.
mp_en_viaje: the whole
thing happens with no fucking guidance, eg if you were
trying
to "build a woman you'd like" you'd spend SOME
time fiddling with
the knobs, but you'd broadly know it has
to have
tits and
they're
to be big etc. when it comes
to "aircraft" you have nfi, maybe it should look like a
tv.
mp_en_viaje:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925756 << in fairness
though,
the design of an object with particular refractive properties is necessarily more software
than hardware -- it's
the ultimate "measure 10mn
times cut once" item, for each shape
that ends up being built, 10e10 or 10e20 or w/e alternative shapes are investigated, ray-traced...
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 00:26 asciilifeform: iirc mp_en_viaje had a piece where illustrated
this using 'whore vs. princess wife'
a111: Logged on 2019-07-31 00:24 asciilifeform: imho actually a mistake
to
think of e.g. f35 as 'product'
that 'has a price', as if it were
toyota -- what instead is
that
the parasitic
toad at any given
time demands x %% of
the printolade, and produces/pretends
to produce certain # of golden
toilets, and x / # is
then 'price'
mp_en_viaje: plausible
to
the plausibility standards of one with paludism-induced dementia, it's
true, but still.
mp_en_viaje: well, "spear"
that worth, literally, cost of 300 opponent spears is a
thing
BingoBoingo: Well, it lead
to Gulf War 1 and
Tailhook.
Those lead
to "Joint Strike Fighter"
☟︎ BingoBoingo: But as long as 'difficulty' doesn't get
tested it can be marketing wanked over. Once operators begin losing airframes, its value goes from marketing bluster
to something interns fight over using MS Excel spreadshit comparing it
to Brasil's SUper
Tucano
BingoBoingo: Well,
the higher difficulty goes
the more constrained members of
the buying group become in how
they use
the
thing. Because Israel is driving up difficulty blowing up random warehouses, whoever might want
to use
the
thing
to
take out radar sites before "humanely intervening" has
to lose more jets.
BingoBoingo: You forgot
the 'worth' applies
to
the ASICs
too
BingoBoingo: For exactly
those reasons. BFL was born sanding plastic caps from cheap surplus FGPAs after all
BingoBoingo: Well, its a product in
the way Bitcoin mining FGPA/ASICs were 2011-2013
a111: Logged on 2015-02-21 04:28 asciilifeform: in j. sladek's 'tik
tok', sf novel in '83, in
the 'dark future' (tm) an aircraft-carrier-with-wheels, vast and infinitely expensive, is finally built
BingoBoingo: And everything
that distinguishes it from cheaper alternatives is being spent 2017-[2019 or 2021] so Israel can stot by fucking up random warehouses outside of a ware
BingoBoingo: And
the F-35 hole is ~1/3rd of
the USG's fall from "Could have bought Russia in 1991"
to
today
BingoBoingo: Seriously, amplified by Irael's F-35 purchases being funded directly from
their US payola.
mp_en_viaje: pretty lulzy considering what
the shit cost
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I can't help by
think of
the USG/NATO/ETC F-35 dilemma as anything other
than
the ASIC era drama again