log☇︎
25200+ entries in 0.224s
mircea_popescu: there's an easy mistake to make here where we look at the past and presume it's the present. gotta recall at the time most people (myself included) did not even regard the matter as serious enough to warrant permalogging.
mircea_popescu: as what, like a diff nick ?
mircea_popescu: "it has good instincts as to what's funny and what's not". really ?
mircea_popescu: ah. ok. anyway, it's funny, because compare this part : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588385 meets this part : "At this point, the robot is getting smarter as well, and participates in its own redesign." ☝︎
mircea_popescu: as alf points out not hard, just nuke one seal
asciilifeform: just as ben_vulpes has 0 particular reason to care how asciilifeform laid out his keyboard, or that it weighs 6kg
ben_vulpes: i did mistake that to mean "vs the public is pointed to as example vs. vs whose operations are private to the owner" ☟︎
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: please to s/being/behind in pencil piece as per ben_vulpes' appreciated astutery.
mircea_popescu: universality and hardness are orthogonal, how hard a diamond is as a standard of realistic hardness has entirely nothing to do with how many cunts wear one around their whatever appendage.
asciilifeform: well iirc in mircea_popescu's original sketch, the sole linkage between mircea_popescu-royalkey and mircea_popescu-apocryphakey is a wot rating. and wot as we have it is an ephemeral thing, which relies on ability to interrogate living people, and not only living but near to the interlocutor in wot.
mircea_popescu: ~same as of a pastebin
asciilifeform: may as well sign with a phuctored key
mircea_popescu: if it's any good, you can always sign it later as phf.
asciilifeform: phf: recently mircea_popescu suggested a cleaner scheme where everybody has multiple signing keys, and they rate one another, as if they were people. which is probably as mechanized as this will ever get.
mircea_popescu: phf you don't have to post a snippet of code as ~vpatch~. can just pastebin it also
mircea_popescu: software design as god intended. FIRST you do by hand ; THEN you automate the parts worth automating.
phf: actually the subject is an ongoing, year old conversation about about V as a way to represent knowledge starts with http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-12#1271598 and then gets revisited every couple of months ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-08-05 13:38 mircea_popescu: one is USE. specifically - hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces. and ima use her as a stand-in for "intelligent and willing to work, but not able to grow a beard".
mircea_popescu hasn't fucked that many indian womenz has not much clue as to their native barking system.
asciilifeform: phf: why not one op that dispatches, correctly ? is it as if the compiler ever did not know the actual operand's type ?
mircea_popescu: this otherwise defensible stand (at least in general) is why computer languages may never become more than shopping lists ; but then again fashion-behaviour (as seen in both languages and github/reddit) may have the last word.
phf: another take on this might be common lisp vs scheme. cl was standardized after the fact, existed and evolved on lisp machines. i'm looking at mit's cadr at the moment, and at a certain point you have maclisp, interlisp, zetalisp and "common lisp" all coexisting on the same machine, 10 years before the standard was written. scheme on the other hand was esparantoed for a purpose. the result is that as you move closer to speaking common
mircea_popescu: yes, but they were idiots in another way : much like stalin's central planning committee (as implemented by the stuart court in london) can't beat the disorganised merchants of the low countries - just so five dorks with nary a clue can't compete with the combinatorial experimentation of the actual pigdin.
mircea_popescu: and your objection to "ukrainian" which is a lulz much like the "croatian" for instance doesn't come and isn't informed nor supported by "the poor quality of conventions employed". it's its lack of history that marks it, correctly, as nonsense.
asciilifeform: same place as 'play go' robot (btw afaik 0 pro games since sedol... as i predicted)
mircea_popescu: bear in mind that at the height of jewish idiocy (well, 2nd height, after being stupid in the 30s) manifested as israel socialism, uppity bitches pretended to "teach" their daughters to be naked in public because "no shame" because hey, old woman engineer thinks herself powerful enough to repress the male gaze.
asciilifeform: i'll point out that there is also an 'if it prospers, none dare call it treason' effect going on. modern hebrew, for instance, is nearly as much a conlang as esperanto.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a language is not a car nor an aeroplane. also engineers are not nearly as important ; or powerful as they like to pretend.
mircea_popescu: and in other argentine wtf, /me felt like putting some of the grandiose coffee available here to good use as coffee liqueur. sent girl to farmacy, where she bought 1 liter bottle of pure ethylic alcohol (98%). for like 6 bux. it's fabulous, tastes mildly of corn.
trinque: Teechan is similar in design to the Lightning Network, save for one crucial differentiating factor: it leverages trusted execution environments (TEEs), that is, secure hardware components found in recent commodity processors such as the latest batch of Intel CPUs with Software Guard Extensions (SGX). << why the fuck even bother talking about this
asciilifeform: (at which point it may as well be a single-purpose 'bitcoinfs')
asciilifeform: afaik there is ~no~ fs that gives 'as many of ANYTHING as disk will hold'
trinque: the xfs limit is iirc defined as "how much disk space do you want to use for them"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588255 << eh, prepared queries next year. as it stands you can't even do a select properly. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: no but srsly, people think this. as per http://trilema.com/2014/la-florida-and-other-places/ ; the whole unwashed orc hordes of the third world actually believe there's something to usgistan.
trinque: ben_vulpes: wooo! I'll test that soon as I have coffee in hand.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 02:38 ben_vulpes: but if it doesn't show me which patches are lacking sigs, that strikes me as a bug.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 02:34 mod6: the printable flow, is the same as the pressable flow.
mircea_popescu: aaaanyway. mimi's in a fine position to try this out, attach old drive, write script to spit them out as per schema, see what occurs.
mircea_popescu: you'd end up with (as proposed there) a directory tree like 20 layers deep, with thousands of symlinks in each.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586531 << i don't recall the proposed tests, actually. i mulled on this for a bit, am reluctant to try any sort of implementation until i finish the sqlator which a) is probably just sunk cost fallacy rearing its head, as i've done not much there but design the schema and prep a massive ingest job and b) has now been bumped down my todo list *again* in favor of vtronic ☝︎
BingoBoingo: Seriously. Anyways the Granite City and Gary Mill are as described, opened enough to get machines warm.
mircea_popescu: so there's no real strong categorical difference from theory. but in practice it sure as fuck exists.
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's possible that as technology matures it goes from this stage to "yawn, whatever, just use the cannonical version". so there's possibly that path there.
mircea_popescu: i perceive no benefit to, eg, getting everyone to use mod6's or alf's or anyone else's v implementation, as opposed to the present situation ; just as i perceive no advantage to getting everyone to make "his own" trb.
mircea_popescu: more or less loud recalibrations as practice crystallizes to be expected in such circumstance.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587857 << he has it exactly, it passed as a "minor problem, whatevs." ☝︎
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/coinbase-login-woes-rumored-as-price-reported-by-fiatbitcoin-interfaces-moves/ << Qntra - Coinbase Login Woes Rumored As Price Reported By fiat/Bitcoin Interfaces Moves
mod6: i mean, we could do it that way... where the printable flow tells you which do not have sigs, but then impl-wise, they must be two different lists as to not inadvertantly press out a WILD vpatch. that, or re-check the flow at press time.
ben_vulpes: but if it doesn't show me which patches are lacking sigs, that strikes me as a bug. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: that we print it as a list is an unfortunate accident.
mod6: the printable flow, is the same as the pressable flow. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: as asciilifeform's original and mine did.
ben_vulpes: the antecedent chain can be constructed without ever needing to refer to the signing of patches, and imho should show all patches in the flow, alongside which keys signed them and if none then marked as wild
ben_vulpes: they should still appear in the flow but marked as wild.
ben_vulpes: well, hang on. if patches with no sigs are omitted from flow, they won't show up as WILD in the flow, correct?
asciilifeform: trinque: a patch, so long as there exists 1 seal for it, and that seal corresponds to a key in your active wot -- is valid.
phf: ben_vulpes: well, actually "r" pronounced as "g" is an infamous yiddish lisp
mod6: creating a genesis is a different thing too; v create a genesis of v. which i did work out, but alas, as you are eluding to, i never published because was nervous that it hadn't been very well audited yet.
trinque: V as conceived as a political weapon against the shitsucking github fuck does not work without the attribution the signatures provide
trinque: my objects can be better stated as an irritation that the political considerations here do not seem to be driving the conversation.
mod6: but i'm trying to get down to brass tacks as much as possible.
asciilifeform: ( the bug, as mircea_popescu iirc also pointed out, was in the direction of making his vtron ~stricter~, of forbidding entirely legit ops, so not catastrophic)
ben_vulpes: i'm pretty sure the design as described above is correct. the way i imagined this working in steady state is for patches and .seals to accumulate all of the patches and signatures thereof a user'd seen over all of history, and then the contents of .wot used to filter the patches and press used to pick a head.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> so long as there is at least one signature for a patch, for which signature v can import a corresponding key, on the basis of the wot, that patch should press. << ftfy.
ben_vulpes: so long as there is at least one signature for which v can import a corresponding key, that patch should press.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 00:52 mircea_popescu: the key being, that if you allow pressing without signatures, then git qualifies as a v implementation.
trinque: as an aside, an environment where "man makes own necessities" out of still simpler tools he can combine as he likes, strikes me as ideal.
mircea_popescu: the key being, that if you allow pressing without signatures, then git qualifies as a v implementation. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: such as in "what classes of objections can or can't be brought to a v implementation"
asciilifeform: i'll point out that for so long as we have an agreed upon patch format, and can agree on a sigtron to use, with agreed pubkeys, 'each d00d has own vtron' worx fine
mod6: this perhaps works as is, in a way.
asciilifeform: but also the enemy could make the time difference come out to either direction, as he chooses.
mod6: but if you hvae ~no~ seals, then you can press it sure. the 'flow' will represent these as WILD.
mod6: or if I have bad signatures, then it'll complain as well.
asciilifeform: when v. belenko flew his mig to jp, and gave it as a gift to usa, su army ended up installing 'belenko switches' in all combat aircraft, supposedly.
mircea_popescu: if you want to not be bothered with signing things - make a shit key and use that eg in an emacs module or as an output script or w/e
asciilifeform: mod6: as i understand, trinque and mircea_popescu were taking the position that 'it is dangerous and useless to have an off switch for signature check'
mod6: Currently, if a WILD vpatch is in the flow, it will just press it as long as it is based correctly.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 18:21 mircea_popescu: in any case - mental models of logic, as with mental models of anything found in nature -, are approximations. the same mechanism that allows a guy to isolate 0* from null.predicate allows one all sorts of psycho-imunological responses that are rather requisite to maintain the subjective notion of the self ~in a format comprehensible to itself~!
trinque: purpose as opposed to cause
mircea_popescu: so far i'm opting out of the entire "systematic slavery" thing ; it is a private not public matter entirely opaque to they-who-aren-t-me, which makes me-as-slaveholder rather divine in nature.
asciilifeform: could have just as readily been hit upon in 5000bc
asciilifeform: just as prehistoric folx used found fire
asciilifeform: and as everybody recalls, aztec was quite happy to use ~found~ glass
asciilifeform: arguably volcano is poor example, for glass. just as bird is astonishingly dead end for flight.
mircea_popescu: so she'll still frottage the shit out of teddybears as a 19yo because hey.
asciilifeform: it wasn't simply 'they died', their approach to thought, as i pointed out in the start of this thread, is alive and well, 'allah farted and moves electron'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i met two kinds of women in this life ; the kind that'd hang out with anyone just as long as they didn't go to jail/starve/whatever ; and the kind that'd hang out with me if it meant underground.
mircea_popescu: traditionally, as well as here, the value of trying aristotle is that it allows one to expose his own cluelessnes, which is generally beneficial.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha! ok this is sweet : "Now he's waist deep. Yes, you can describe all motion as a compound of linear and circular motion. For that matter, vectors treat all motion as combinations of linear motion."
mircea_popescu: should be pretty evident that a dimension defined in terms of divisibility is very fundamentally not the same thing as the latin notion of dimension-as-extensibility. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: there's many problems ; it's not even the case that the greek notion of "dimension" at all maps to anything here extant. the discussion is carried on trilema on easier things such as "power" etc ; but in any case, it's rather like having lisp types arbitrarily sloshed around. you don't just add 5+5 like that, if they're different types.
asciilifeform: the idea of '1,111 stones' is just as inaccessible.
mircea_popescu: (there is no such thing as an inaccessible physical system by the definition of the terms.)
asciilifeform: i can picture one as a nonphysical boojum, like the imaginary solution to a quadratic
asciilifeform: 'aristotle: your postulates are just as circular!' 'asciilifeform: i made a working diode from things i dug up' 'aristotle: you just got lucky' ☟︎
mircea_popescu: as generally happens, mongols will comprehend the bums better than the middle class.
mircea_popescu: i didn't say that. i said - that dutch's writing is interesting as of dutch ; not much as of aristotle.
mircea_popescu: which he did sound like ; and which is why he doesn't figure as proeminently among the greeks of his time as he does among moderns.