log☇︎
176100+ entries in 0.102s
a111: Logged on 2017-06-20 14:44 sn0wmonster: i like how you made this about you.
mircea_popescu: this is seen ALL THE FUCKING TIME with randos walking in here, under the hallucinatory impression that they have minds. a fine recent example being http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-20#1672449 ☝︎
asciilifeform: the hypothetical 'complete idiot' has the problem of 'buluceala' in his head. not 'not enough thought'
mircea_popescu: phf i'll propose to you that the problem is too much over"thinking". the idea is to get the idiot stop doing what he thinks is thinking.
asciilifeform: phf: reread the linked frederickthegreat thread
phf: asciilifeform: that's silly. it took you many years to arrive to the point where you even understand what "stop overthinking" is, or how to manifest it in code and still provide the solution. i problem is in too much thinking, then you could get a complete idiot to write ffa.
mircea_popescu: and so you hear the better hos going "or else what ? whatcha gonna do, bitch ?" to their mother on occasion, and know you've struck gold.
mircea_popescu: there is a reason for this.
mircea_popescu: kids about the age of i dunno, 15 or so if they're really late with the brain development discover ourdemocracy spawned parents can never threaten.
mircea_popescu: there's the pedosmile ; and then there's the castratocantthreato smile.
mircea_popescu: if a guy who looks like bill de blasio profers it, the whine can never be a threat. that's part of the definition of threat, there';s a tail in there going "and it was not said by anything like http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/de-failsio.jpg "
asciilifeform: a credible thread != fud
mircea_popescu: no, not really. fud is closer to the tmsrt notion of army in being than to the ustard notion of stupid males with cunts whining.
mircea_popescu: the whole fucking pile of fail consists of the vague hope someone may be dumb enough to take a barking caterpillar for a dog.
mircea_popescu: the tikrit fucking offensive. if you actually had the means to do an embargo on russia, would you announce it in advance ? if you had the actual men and materiel to take as much as an ozarks farm, would you announce it in advance ? etfc.
asciilifeform: phf: the 'insight' in ffa is simply the kind that was taught to the prussian soldiers -- 'stop overthinking'
a111: Logged on 2017-04-07 18:24 mircea_popescu: no, let's also de-equivocate think. there's two kinds of think, one's a forge/reflow/examination of trees resulting in analytical consumption of inputs with actionable outputs guaranteed ; the other is a neurotic behaviour perhaps best described as spinning, whereby specific emotional triggers / detriggers are visited in succession. the prussian model was never concerned with the former in any sense, but merely aimed to elimi
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-13#1682351 << dude... ustards. did they ever do anything ? other than blather, did they ? http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-02#1038618 ? never happened ? ☝︎☝︎
phf: just because socialists stole the terminology, doesn't mean that words somehow lost their meaning
phf: nah, potato programming doesn't contain any sort of insight. the quality is a bit higher, once you're done wrestling with the compiler, but it takes experience, intelligence and taste to come out on the other end.
asciilifeform: phf: contrary to appearances, asciilifeform is not fixated on ada lang per se, but rather on the style of thinking it leads the operator into. ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: this is not necessarily bad thing
phf: bulk of ada code i've seen so far is very much workingmen code, cobol like stuff from the belly of industrial facilities
asciilifeform: ( i like dead tree. and know some folx who also like. )
asciilifeform: i've even contemplated making the result available, somehow, in dead tree, eventually.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is very slowly fixing this.
phf: well, problem is that there doesn't seem to be much in terms of tasteful ada code available to public. with common lisp you can go to mid-90s and before and you start getting some very reasonable works, worthy imitation.
asciilifeform: 'i have 9000 layers of metatronics keeping track of own navel lint' ☟︎
asciilifeform: the kind of proggy written by folx born to shovel dung.
asciilifeform: adacore's mmap resembles that 'avionics' thing. full of 'meta' liquishit.
asciilifeform: ( and ftr i have nfi whether adacore's thing works on netbsd etc )
asciilifeform: betcha even if you support all of the weird bsds, it will add maybe a few lines.
asciilifeform: i took 1 look and thought 'straight to the furnace with this'
asciilifeform: adacore has their own mmap library, gpl. but it is ~20x the size of mine, and it is difficult to see why
a111: Logged on 2017-06-06 19:40 asciilifeform: mod6, phf , et al : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/ada/horsecocks.tar.gz << i dun recall posting this before, so here it will live, for nao : unofficial release of mmaptron
asciilifeform: phf: even straight posix-c glue is preferable to those.
phf: proprietary crapolade is still preferable to the "compatibility packages", which are often poorly written (hello, cffi!) and ripe for modernization (uiop)
asciilifeform: ( and items like sockets were never in the standard to begin with, and eternally a free-for-all of proprietary crapolade )
asciilifeform: but sure. they'll pile, pile on the shit.
phf: for the longest time i thought that common lisp spec is a magic paper against modernization. not so, and you can see it with the recent evolution of sbcl. for example they made it an error to locally shadow cl package symbols, e.g. (flet ((first (...))) ...) will fail, breaking a lot of reasonable old code. many historic idioms likewise produce compilation warnings, etc. ☟︎
asciilifeform: the other thing to remember, is that the win from writing in ada - but not in ada in general, but the style demonstrated in ffa in particular -- remains even if YOU HAVE NO ACCESS TO GNAT and gotta compile by hand into asm. because it forces the style of algo that CAN be safely so expressed - i.e. without presumption of pointerolade arithmetic, gc, or other cost-externalizing electrosocialisms ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( i will not be using the clang gnats )
asciilifeform: but indeed there is no escape from the ownership requirement. we already have a 'final' gnat, for instance.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-12 18:57 asciilifeform: mod6 et al : moar gnatology for fun an' profit : add -S -fverbose-asm to your -cargs to replace .o output with readable asmolade
asciilifeform: thus far i am satisfied with my ability to cleanly scrape the shit off gnat. e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-12#1681702 + http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-12#1681931 produces asm that satisfied my 'is this really nonbranchingonsecretz' headache. ☝︎☝︎
diana_coman: well, I can't see how slow accumulation of concession to shit leads to anything other than "chemically bonds to it" at some point ☟︎
asciilifeform: just like 'first you pillage, then you burn' (tm)(r)
asciilifeform: FIRST you write the fits-in-head minimal ffa-like thing. THEN you spark.
phf: and they are coming from the "formal verification" direction, via spark ☟︎
asciilifeform: shit can be piled on top of anything. question is whether it chemically bonds to it, or not.
phf: fwiw it invalidate your thesis that ada is hipster proof
asciilifeform: ada had this slow accumulation of concession-to-'mainstreamindustry' barnacle crud
asciilifeform: but overall not a bad time to note, there are afaik no public examples of 'how to ada' that would have satisfied asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: pretty lulzy shitfest. great resource for learning 'how not to ada'
asciilifeform: with vga touch screen, uhuh
phf: just to clarify, is not a weather balloon, it's an autonomous uav glider
asciilifeform: and touch screen ?!!
asciilifeform: https://github.com/tum-ei-rcs/StratoX/tree/master/software/hal/hal/src << holy mother of fuck, why is there vga framebuffer handler in a weather balloon ??
phf: another amusing point for how little it does AND assisted by both ada and spark they still manage to introduce 3 "mistakes"
phf: well, it's written by real time os people, rather than, you know, flight engineers, so naturally
asciilifeform: and holy shit is that thing a hog, for what it ( at least according to the docs ) does !!
phf: i'm not sure how kosher it is (it's SPARK but they also use gnat extensions), i'm just recreating their project at a local hackerspace
phf: i haven't stayed up to date, i'm instead studying this avionics software source code (it's a bit iffy, written by universities, but has a wider variety of stuff)
a111: Logged on 2017-07-13 14:02 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-13#1682303 << iirc phf posted his ffa helloworld a day or so after the original paste
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-13#1682345 << i have, can post it again, but afaik the interface has changed since. ☝︎
andreicon: thx a lot guys, i feel like i'm going to have a good time talking to you here
andreicon: that's what the output looks like
diana_coman: can be any other andreicon just the same
diana_coman: as otherwise one can't even know it's *you* talking next time
andreicon: sorry to cut this short but i gotta switch offices
shinohai: I'd recommend it as worth taking the time to learn to anyone interested in computing.
andreicon: i'm not yet familiar with the inner workings of the init system
andreicon: shinohai: so would you recommend gentoo to an intermediate user?
shinohai: I am a former Debian user, now ashamed to say I used it for so long after being here and learning to gentoo properly.
andreicon: nevermind that... i just felt i was stuck so i had to get my mind busy with something else
andreicon: i'm thinking of switching to something different
diana_coman: in some sense all of them are binary based too
andreicon: isn't that deb based?
andreicon: mircea popescu led to trilema
andreicon: openbsd led to mircea popescu donation 20k ☟︎
diana_coman: do you know that curse "may you live in interesting/exciting times"?
andreicon: but then... i had already used fedora before
andreicon: just looking around, i was actually thinking of switching from my current debian installation to something more exciting ☟︎
andreicon: maybe even switch my node to the version you recommend
andreicon: i'll look into it later this evening
diana_coman: ahh, I see; take it easy, it's a deep rabbit hole
diana_coman: #trilema and thebitcoin; no #eulora yet?
andreicon: and 5 minutes ago i found thebitcoin.foundation which linked to here
diana_coman: plenty of time around here; it's a logged chan too, so people will read when they wake up/come around
andreicon: i had just learnt of the existence of #trilema and thebitcoin.foundation
andreicon: okay, i suspected that. sry. let's stick to english
andreicon: i've been happy seeding the chain
andreicon: i don't think i've updated mine in a while
andreicon: what version are they running?
andreicon: does that confer me a higher status in the republic?
andreicon: .. of participating in this... game?
shinohai: Results may vary depending on time of day and my level of sobriety at the moment.
andreicon: what are the benefits though?
andreicon: shinohai: are you one of them? your spelling is too good
shinohai: Well http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ should explain the goal of this chan