log☇︎
17900+ entries in 0.123s
asciilifeform: right. whole affair is 'what's the most general arithmetron that is also a useful rsatron', from my pov.
mircea_popescu: just note that eucrypt having rsa does in no manner hurt your serpent-only-phonecrypto putative app ; just like it having serpent dun hurt a "this is my pgp implementation" usecase, and so on.
asciilifeform: i'm carrying out mircea_popescu's orig spec, where 'i want a peh key with my rsa modulus that i carved on the mountain' or how it went.
asciilifeform: but this is a diff thread, possibly.
asciilifeform: c-s actually has 1 interesting win over good old rsa -- it dun need a hash padtron
mircea_popescu: and i meant include barret ~as an optional~, like a callable function.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why you barfed ; but i barfed because it's fucking stupid, you lose a lot of variety in your primes for no gains worth the mention.
asciilifeform: ( and if you montgomery, then you gotta either test whether gcd(N, modulus) == 1 , or ~assume~ , the latter is a mine that user will step on. unlike div0ism , it is not an inexpensive test . )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-06#1884935 << i actually considered to have 'if low bit is 0 - i.e. N is even -- then montgomery, otherwise barrett' but what this does is break constanttimeism of modexp -- nao you broadcast the parity of N for whole planet, cuz entirely diff execution profiles for the 2 algos. and montgomery is at the very most a 10% revvup over barrett. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-07 21:48 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721485 << alternatively, can *construct* numbers which don't have very small factors. pick a nonzero remainder mod 2, mod 3, ... mod largest-prime-fit-in-your-primorial and find what number of primorial is congruent to it using chinese remainder theorem
asciilifeform: 7 or 11 is a primorial ?!
asciilifeform: as in euclid's proof-there-aint-a-last-prime.
mircea_popescu: i don't get it how you expect to multiply some value by a (product of primes +1) and not get an even number.
asciilifeform: oh hm i recall nao. ( it was because operator 'P' wants to be a general-purpose primality test, valid for any input whatsoever that fits in the ffawidth, rather than simply 'generate prime' )
asciilifeform: btw iirc apeloyee had a comment re 'why do you want to gcd(x, primorial), why dontcha generate a random x and multiply it by primorial + 1 '
mircea_popescu: (whole thing already comes with a "nozero" rule anyways)
mircea_popescu: otherwise, i guess daykin gcd can exist as a class, native or extended, w/e.
asciilifeform: so happens that it is needed as a general-purpose knob tho.
mircea_popescu: i thought this entire discussion was a) specifiucally as to daykin (not to stein) and b) specifically as to primegen for rsa secret key baking, (not "in general math functions).
asciilifeform: it is, and x is a random string from rng
mircea_popescu: this wasn't a rsa genprime application ?
asciilifeform: and yes it is possible to daykin with a hardcoded list of primorials, 1 for each possib bitness. the issue aint even that you gotta keep around e.g. 8192 primorials; ( you do, they can't be sliced ) , but that it leaks the bitness of X .
mircea_popescu: possibly. that's not clear, nor was it ever discussed before now. it MAY BE that a dozen calls of gdc-daykin(x, daykin-primorial) are in fact cheaper than 1 call to gdc-stein(x, primorial(currentwidth)).
asciilifeform: this much is correct, and why i have gcd to begin with. right nao i have a modified stein that goes in constanttime.
mircea_popescu: since your best gcd algo seems to be one that expects x and 6 be same bitness, there's nothing wrong with making a buncha prefab such products-of-primes.
mircea_popescu: dude, why is every little thing such a fucking uphill struggle with you. suppose you wish to see if x is coprime with the number 2. you run gcd (x, 2). suppose then you wish to also see if x is coprime with the number 3. you run gcd(x, 3). all this is EXACTLY EQUIVALENT to running gcd (x, 6) : if this returns 2, it was not coprime with 2, and if it returns 3, it was not coprime with 3.
asciilifeform: which is a nogo.
asciilifeform: on top of this, if you actually carry out a diff stream of instructions for 2047 and 2048, you leak the bitness of the integer under test.
mircea_popescu: (i suppose if indeed you want to test MORE small primes than fit in one 8kb, you'll have a number of such composite numbers to test about. however many it takes. and yes, you can clever the knobs so they're not in strict order so that the composites are each exactly 8192 bits)
mircea_popescu: it's a one-shot thing, and it eliminates however many dozen small primes.
mircea_popescu: just a 8192 bit number, equal to their product.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: magic # primorials are unavoidable. but i dun immediately see how to make it go with daykin, there aint a bailey-borwein-plouffe-style algo for gcd
asciilifeform: and even a dog-slow gcd is still faster than knuth-division by each of million smallprimes.
asciilifeform: it is interesting to note, i did an exhaustive dig re gcd algos; and found that there are half a dozen sub-quadratic ones, but none of those can be made constant-time.
asciilifeform: you get a potentially 'geological' number of steps that increment by 1.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, give the phone thing a year or two, whynot.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other olds, https://thumb-p1.xhcdn.com/a/YfBOpNSfEGCbtgf3vER4rg/000/015/504/831_1000.jpg
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884616 << imo, this is a perfect summary of my current state. I walked through the tmsr doors in ~2014 at roughly epsilon and 'learned as I went'. As a result, many of my projects here were built on unsteady scaffolding, and I have been slowly going back and pouring in proper foundations where needed ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( there is also a 'giant ice40' that amberglint dug up recently, that gotta be tested, but i dun even physically have 1 yet, and deliberately not bought so as not to distract from moar urgent matters )
asciilifeform: there is also a serpent-on-ice40 thing, with similar level of unfinishitude; and a ice40-powered 'FG2', ditto.
asciilifeform: to round out the 'loose ends' thread -- asciilifeform also has a ~90% built node-walker and www front end for same. but it is in refrigerator, no one is direly starving for the lack of the thing, i expect i'll come back and finish it off strictly after ffa is fielded .
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 14:13 mircea_popescu: so : as far as i know, bingoBoingo is working on qntra and on pizarro. he's doing a very fine job with the former ; i'm nonplussed with recently discovering just how broken the latter's mp-wp offering actually was ; moreover it seems to me from a distance pizarro's still financially and customer-wise entirely dependent, ie as close to failure as you can possibly get without spelling it out.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884603 << BingoBoingo i'd ~really~ like to hear what is current plan for gettin' heathen custom, so as to finally get the hell out of the red. asciilifeform dun have a massive treasure chest that can run pizarro 'on battery' 4evah (hopefully not surprising, this) ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: i admit that i'm at least a little curious how phf finally managed escape velocity from the bigzone, but if he doesn't feel like spilling re subj, also won't cry. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 14:38 mircea_popescu: so, phf : how about you start clearly communicating yourself, beginning with a complete, correct and true to life adnotation of said discussion in your own hand, because this "ima go meditate on things until everyone involved forgot what i was meditating on" isn't a workable approach to intellectual life.
asciilifeform: ( already hats off to ave1 , who did year+ of gnat cleanup that asciilifeform was solidly convinced he'd have to do with own hands; and the fixed inlining gave us a ~2x ffa speedup 'for phree' ! )
asciilifeform: also at some point it'd be great to have a mips gnat, so i can plant ffa on pocket-sized irons. but that's for muchlaters.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 14:32 mircea_popescu: ave1 is, i suspect, silently working on gnating things -- which is fine and valuable except for the silently part. there's this tendency of lone wolf scientist to not properly report failures, out of an imaginary saving of time and resources this permits. it must be said that NOTHING could be further from the truth, nothing at all -- there's more to be gained from a properly reported failure to find than out of ten shiny succ
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884619 << from ave1 , i hope to see a 'port' of tmsr-gnat that can be hard-welded into cuntoo as primary gcc ( to remove the hack where it builds gcc5, then down to 4.9, and neither of'em being a gnat ) ☝︎
diana_coman: well, I hardly see how you can *stop* people from using it directly or why exactly; and the endian + div0 don't sound like a huge layer anyway
asciilifeform: ( for the l0gz, refresher: pcode is meant to give a mechanically simple system where yer privkey is a pcode string, and so is yer pubkey, and so are ciphertexts, and whole mechanism is set in motion simply by feeding pcode to the processor )
asciilifeform: !A (but this aint ) .1.1MX#
asciilifeform: !A .1.1.1MX (this is ok )
asciilifeform: !A .FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF0
asciilifeform: !A FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF0
asciilifeform: !A .~#
diana_coman: asciilifeform, first I do need to finish getting the ffa in, so that will still take quite a while; other than that, it's more a matter of "as time permits" and as mircea_popescu says it's not top priority; that being said yes, I'd like to do it and see some timings and comparison for myself
asciilifeform: what i prolly oughta roll into the conveyor, is a variant of ffacalc that's libraryized (i.e. callable from other program, with string argument containing pcode, and fills a provided buffer with the output)
mircea_popescu: i imagine she's going to bake a test as time permits. it's not a top priority item but then again she moves fast.
mircea_popescu: apply for a stateless person thing./
mircea_popescu: well if usg cancels it you're then a refugee. they love those in yurp lol
asciilifeform: hanbot had a patron with castle, neh.
mircea_popescu: you know for a fact hanbot lived there for what, better part of a decade. wtf 800k passport.
mircea_popescu: most romanians don't have a passport either.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: a ro passport sells for 800k usd, last i inquired
mircea_popescu: specifically, a 5 to 10k% increase in deliverables over what you currently achieve.
a111: Logged on 2014-10-15 19:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to follow that model. qntra isn't a seller of 0-dioxin, 1814-equivalent tomatoes, but a greengrocer where they don't hire retards and don't mix shit in the fruit sala.d
mircea_popescu: farming is not an economic activity in europe ; nor has it for half a century or more.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in vintage, https://thumb-p0.xhcdn.com/a/NABeAMFkefz66Qu6LjtJ1w/000/015/504/830_1000.jpg
mircea_popescu: put some meat on the bones of his "check it out, speed!" thing, as a courtesy if nothing else.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, re m-r: I implemented it using mpi as per http://ossasepia.com/2017/12/28/eucrypt-chapter-3-miller-rabin-implementation/ ; ofc I'd rather use ffa ct-time implementation but it's not a sticking point per se i.e. I can switch my implementation from relying on mpi to relying on ffa, no?
asciilifeform: ( phuctor, ftr, uses a (patched, to enable bigger ints) old gmp. with asmisms enabled. )
mircea_popescu: esp because correctly written, with tests etc. so can meaningfully do ffa-eucrypt vs mpi-eucrypt as a benchmark.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it doesn't ; nor will it, because what truly brings serpent in is the ~space~ not the time problem. ie, because of padding, straight rsa doubles message bulk, which is a major problem for online game.
mircea_popescu: right. a mpi-eucrypt vs ffa-eucrypt head-on will be interesting to see.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 15:14 mircea_popescu: it's not exactly clear to me yet what the situation is. it's altogether possible postgres may be rescuable through a process similar to how "peculiar linux candidate packaging sterilized into cuntoo".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not ~just~ on that. also on http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878240 and on a larger pile of [not entirely specified, and i suspect not entirely known] edges. ☝︎
asciilifeform is refreshing chalkboard, would like to get a sense of the set of items he personally owes
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 02:14 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gnat bugs : apparently ( and this is documented or mentioned nowhere ) : it is impossible to have a Ada.Finalization.Limited_Controlled type ANYWHERE inside a static library, unless it is generic all the way down (i.e. if the lib package is generic, any sub-packages must also be instantiated as generics )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you have a concrete application in mind, i can spare an hour or 2 to bake
a111: Logged on 2018-12-12 19:41 BingoBoingo: ^ Any awk ninjas want to try this on a few forums?
asciilifeform: and yes it worx. you give it a similarity matrix (i.e. 'what differences are important, in the order of their importance' in matrix form) and it produces an alignment.
mircea_popescu: the ~algo~ tho. not specifically for v trees, but it strikes me there doesn't exist currently a bin differ ~at all~.
asciilifeform: i posted a complete needleman in cl ( also a draft, rather than troo genesis, nobody stood up and said 'i want this' so shelved ) 2y ago, also.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 14:37 mircea_popescu: i do not know, as i sit here, what the conclusion of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881988 discussion was, three weeks later. the man sits among a republic built on a certain methodology, aims to quietly use the exact ~other~ methodology, makes no prior mention of this, candidly references the latter as if it worked notwithstanding how howlingly it failed to work to date, on and on in this vein and at the end of it al
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884623 << at the risk of pouring petrol into that particular fire, fella also promised a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859075 item iirc ☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884612 << fwiw i've ~exhausted the short-term milk of the particular side cow ( there's a disk snapshot & a recipe to post, but after that will be stalled for aeons ) ; ☝︎
mircea_popescu: so, phf : how about you start clearly communicating yourself, beginning with a complete, correct and true to life adnotation of said discussion in your own hand, because this "ima go meditate on things until everyone involved forgot what i was meditating on" isn't a workable approach to intellectual life. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: i do not know, as i sit here, what the conclusion of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881988 discussion was, three weeks later. the man sits among a republic built on a certain methodology, aims to quietly use the exact ~other~ methodology, makes no prior mention of this, candidly references the latter as if it worked notwithstanding how howlingly it failed to work to date, on and on in this vein and at the end of it al ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: which leaves phf ; who's doing an excellent job maintaining very elegant and well done extant infrastructure, and a very terrifyingly poor job at communicating himself.
mircea_popescu: ave1 is, i suspect, silently working on gnating things -- which is fine and valuable except for the silently part. there's this tendency of lone wolf scientist to not properly report failures, out of an imaginary saving of time and resources this permits. it must be said that NOTHING could be further from the truth, nothing at all -- there's more to be gained from a properly reported failure to find than out of ten shiny succ ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: spyked is evidently trying, hence feedbot, but evidently having trouble reconciling saeculum, which i'm going to let stand as such on the grounds that he's new -- even though experience shows that as a dubious idea [for all the eg one could possibly need witness how asciilifeform 's still in the swamp, so many years later]. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron seems lost in a bucolic paradise slash midwestern parochial nightmare of his own choosing. nothing wrong with this either, and unless i hear any better that will be the conclusion.
mircea_popescu: other than maintaining the deedbot infrastructure, trinque is working on cuntoo, which is a rather large piece and it taking a [difficult to predict] while is not by itself the end of the world ; but i'd like to see some roadmapping, tentative and subject to change as it may be, lest the effort degenerates.
mircea_popescu: hanbot is working on the mp-wp tree, and manages as she long has a rather largeish wetworks i'm not going to get into the details of.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman is working for s.mg ; we've recently had this exact talk and revised our plans. originally the idea was to have moved over to cuntoo, and do support work for community-driven effort at a new client. the latter completely collapsed over the shocking weakness of such community ; the former's at best delayed. ☟︎
diana_coman: fwiw I can't say I saw a surprise so far in any of the april announcements; at most more of a difference of degree at times (i.e. the expected direction/action but to a larger/smaller degree)
mircea_popescu: so : as far as i know, bingoBoingo is working on qntra and on pizarro. he's doing a very fine job with the former ; i'm nonplussed with recently discovering just how broken the latter's mp-wp offering actually was ; moreover it seems to me from a distance pizarro's still financially and customer-wise entirely dependent, ie as close to failure as you can possibly get without spelling it out. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: foremost, the lordship is not a state, but an activity.
mircea_popescu: well, meanwhile it's the 5th day of this fine new year, and it occurs to me it might be a good idea to discuss some things, lest april coming around this year like any other year be perceived as some kind of subjective surprise, rather than the objective necessity it ever is.