log☇︎
165100+ entries in 0.099s
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'tis sitting in my workdir, did not imagine it to be useful to others
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell ben_vulpes was it you who had a trb patch abolishing the idiotic truncation of block and tx hashes in debug.log ? where did it go ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 22:24 asciilifeform: trinque's deedbot may be one of the remaining
asciilifeform: all of the pattern 'have you seen this tx?' 'no...' 'but i sent it to your node and got an ack' ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( several cases documented in the logs, by mircea_popescu and others )
asciilifeform: chronically very frustrated enemy, in tilt, and he does whatever he can with his few hammers. in this case it happens to be slowing tx propagation.
ben_vulpes: republican outposts in the sea of shit
asciilifeform: i don't much like the phrase 'trusted nodes', when you connect to trb node, you get plaintext tcp, and 0 guarantees re who or what you're actually talking to. ☟︎
asciilifeform: hanbot: imho that'd be spiffy
hanbot: yeah, ty. i wonder if it wouldn't be wise to update that list monthly as part of reporting etc. ☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque's deedbot may be one of the remaining ☟︎
asciilifeform: hanbot: the 1st two are mine ( #1 -- zoolag, which is midway through a resyncing, on account of a dead ssd ; 2nd is dulap, which is humming along )
hanbot: say, where's the current list of trb nodes? http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html << accurate? ☟︎
asciilifeform: yea they're 'party favour' cheap
spyked: anyway, I ordered three icesticks (because free shipping, and would rather pay for extra hardware than shipping)
asciilifeform: spyked: nope, that's only for guests who get manually up'd by someone.
spyked: thanks for the tip. didn't know, initially thought there was a time limit for that
asciilifeform: spyked: you don't need to re-voice unless you got unvoiced (typically from connection reset)
asciilifeform: 'The McCain is named for the father and grandfather of US Sen. John McCain.' lol!!
asciilifeform: 'Ten US Navy sailors are missing after a US Navy guided-missile destroyer collided with an oil tanker east of Singapore early Monday, the fourth accident in Asian waters involving a US warship in 2017'
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell BingoBoingo https://archive.is/12eLH << qntra fodder ?
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B39A2F2FE4458177B4359D74EFD1A7A27CFA0B063D5815391C525882628EE98 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1741...8967 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.82.103 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.82.103 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.tlakeenterprises.com. US MO)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B39A2F2FE4458177B4359D74EFD1A7A27CFA0B063D5815391C525882628EE98 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1419...0413 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.82.103 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.82.103 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.tlakeenterprises.com. US MO)
asciilifeform: largest, that is.
asciilifeform: ( iirc the smallest package is a pqfp-64 )
spyked: this is gonna be fun. asciilifeform, I haven't looked into hw since 2010, so there might be stupid questions coming your way once I start playing with this. btw, I don't mind getting my hands dirty with soldering, I just have very rudimentary tools for now.
asciilifeform: ice40 leaves a great deal to be desired ( it is VERY small, comparatively, and doesn't come in a no-flash version, and who knows for how long it will remain in print ) but is by far the closest thing that currently exists to the sane fpga.
asciilifeform: i last leeched the xilinx hog in 2011 and don't intend to ever update.
spyked hates xilinx with passion. if only because of the bloated software ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( but, i will point out, is MUCH roomier than the xc9572 cpld used in FUCKGOATS )
asciilifeform: if you're used to working with, e.g., xilinx 'spartan' or 'virtex' series, it will feel VERY tight.
asciilifeform: which made it a realistic reversing target, and it was apparently successfully reversed.
asciilifeform: spyked: only the ice40 series
spyked: so from ^ the "ultra"er models don't work with the open source toolchain? I was looking at one of the breakout boards earlier
asciilifeform: but the only ram you get is the 32k of sram on the crystal.
asciilifeform: it has the programmator built in
spyked: asciilifeform, was going to ask. is there particular ice40 you're recommending? it might be a while until I get one but I looked over the list and they had various types (ultralite etc.)
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-21 12:06 asciilifeform: spyked: we have loooooong way to go - try and make a ddr controller first
asciilifeform: !~later tell spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701446 >> on second thought, you probably could put this chore off, olimex sells a ice40-8k (largest available) with 512k of sram glued on. and this is theoretically enough to prototype . the more pressing matter is ethernet. ( afaik nobody sells an ice40 + ethernetmagnetics . and just as with ddr dram, answer is 'lattice wants you to use their larger fpgas, with THEIR toolchain' ☝︎☟︎
BingoBoingo: Today's adventure into the path of totality was very worthwhile, especially over merely vieing partial phase of eclipse. Based on traffic, traveling to the centerline of totality zone seems like it would have offered little additional benefit.
phf: right, i didn't even comment on that aspect, because everything should be obvious from that article i linked.
asciilifeform: imho it is strange that the contract on him had to wait until ceaucescu dead ☟︎
asciilifeform: incidentally in as far as i can tell, d00d was solzhenitsining for decade+, and very actively Musting Die from a very defensible imho pov
phf: The Secrets of Meta-NSA by what's that guy from yesterday
asciilifeform: briefly thought 'hey they cloned altera, the specs must now be on the net somewhere'. turns out -- apparently no.
asciilifeform: either way, it helps us not a whit, these items dun seem to be any moar obtainable than 'elbrus'.
asciilifeform: now it is ~possible~ that the spec is disinfo, and in basement of kgb there is a rewritten alteratronic chain. but imho unlikely. ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( and there is no way to verify that the chip was actually reversed, and produced in ru -- other than to present the specs, and a native clean toolchain ! but catalogue says 'use quartus from altera' )
asciilifeform: the problem is that it does not suffice to keep the producer honest.
asciilifeform: the orc packaging ain't a problem, imho it is The Right Thing to ban western smt spec
phf: i suspect there's still some amount of conformance with GOST. i personally think it could be a good practice if done right, but reading some usg account of it i can see how it can be turned into bureaucratic money maker
asciilifeform: ( in modern ru mil production chain, they still mandate ancient orcish pinouts and case dimensions, supposedly to prevent substitution with cheap imported chip with name sanded off )
asciilifeform begins to suspect that these folx simply got a hold of american raw dies and make a killing mounting them in sov-era specced ceramic cases with gold pins, and calling it 'new production' ☟︎
asciilifeform: 'для проектирования используется САПР ф.Altera − MAX+PLUS II или Quartus II' << pfff yea suggests brute force 'crystal, complete with 'when you care enough to steal the very best' easter egg banner' copy.
phf: pff, russian tech. spec is produced by kiril after sit in room with 2 fpga (such luxury, whole two!) and bread for three months ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: i am not convinced that cpu arch CAN be improved on incrementally.
asciilifeform: suggests that d00dz have the spec ! somewhere.
asciilifeform: in production today.
phf: i should clarify that rather architecture can be improved ~upon~ incrementaly
phf: to some extent something like that was done in a transition from 36xx to ivory ☟︎
phf: sure, but chinual is extremely detailed and the ~architecture~ can be improved incrementaly. for example brad's cpu is, yes, implemented as an emulator for a discrete circuit. but at the same time it can be isolated from the bus, put into a determenistic harness, and rewritten from the cpu spec in chinual.
asciilifeform: there's NO reason to emulate, e.g., amd am2900, for all time.
asciilifeform: the designers were crippled by the extreme transistorpoverty of the time.
asciilifeform: cadr sucks because it was designed around off the shelf alu and misc glue of the time.
phf: right, but you can already do that with, say, fpga cadr. it's not necessarily a shiny experience though
asciilifeform: closing the ouroborus.
asciilifeform: phf: the notion is to build a box with sufficient ram, horse, capacity to drive xterm, so that you can sit down on it and edit the fpga config per se.
phf: i still stand by this point, but with a disclaimer. i think that one of the advantages early hackers had was that they were working from inside their systems. linus was dogfooding linux, symbolics were using every lisp machine at their disposal to build better lisp machines. i think there's inherent folly in planning a revolution from the comfort of our bourgeois machines :p
spyked: yeah, that makes sense.
asciilifeform: ( as for 'ice' itself, if it were to vanish, we can have clones rolling off conveyor in 6mo or so for coupla hundred btc. not so for magical stateful nic etc )
asciilifeform: no magic 'available until we reversed it, then magically evaporates from market' chips.
asciilifeform: sane comp is to be a fully granular description. i.e. if you can still get transistors, you can still build ENTIRE THING. no exceptions.
spyked: asciilifeform, yeah, it's right below phf's initial reply. the whole thing
asciilifeform: spyked: didja miss the part where it runs on no modern nic ? or the thread where ALL modern nics are built to use dma, which gives the nic vendor access to every byte of your ram ?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 17:05 phf: take movitz, take lice https://web.archive.org/web/20080624230234/http://www.emmett.ca/~sabetts/, add tcpip stack to it, add irc. what else one needs for tmsr-ing
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544148 <-- ah. precisely the discussion. ☝︎
asciilifeform: are the hard part.
asciilifeform: reliable controller for usefully large ram, and peripherals ( the only strictly necessary periphs are nic and a reasonable ssd persistent storage )
asciilifeform: spyked: designing a reasonably sane ( a la 'scheme79' ) cpu is not actually the hard part.
phf: now i didn't find out about race conditions myself, that data point came from dks, they discovered race conditions as part of the emulator rewrite, but they have the benefit of having access to the necessary low level bits ☟︎
asciilifeform: they don't belong in the future.
phf: i spent (mostly another whisperer and myself did) on getting vlm stable, and i'm unconvinced that some of the issues we encountered were purely "buggy vlm". there is, for example, a crash in floating point instruction that happens when you load document examiner on stock piratebay opengenera. i have no explanation for it still, because vlm code ~seems to do the right thing~. there are other similar instances ☟︎☟︎
spyked: I'm still in the process of grokking the DMA+interrupts discussion.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701443 << another little known fact, there are race conditions in genera itself, that manifest in higher clock environments. ☝︎
spyked: asciilifeform, lol, yeah, that's why I gave MIPS as an example. but actually, MIPS on FPGA + MIPS Lisp machine implementation might be more work than starting from CADR. that is, not even accounting for RAM and peripherals
asciilifeform: see also the sad story of movitz
a111: Logged on 2016-10-04 15:36 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! pc engines 'apu2' (the board with the intel nics - vs. 'apu1', with realtek) , turns out, is crippled, hdt probe barfs with it, the cpu is reputed to have a drm fuse set.
asciilifeform: spyked: as for 'use off the shelf iron', see thread http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-04#1552690 and elsewhere. ☝︎
BingoBoingo: OMG, BRB: Dragon About To Consume Sun!
a111: Logged on 2017-08-04 22:58 asciilifeform: possibly one could try building a netbsd that doesn't try to touch the usb chip at all. then enjoy setting up sans keyboard.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-04 20:55 asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform took the chance made by the death of ssd in 'zoolag' to attempt netbsd. result : no boot. ( with or without 'no acpi' ) option, hangs at usb init.
asciilifeform: spyked: consider, the amount of arbitrary stupidity you import even ~by having pci bus~ is gargantuan
mod6: coffee time!
spyked: asciilifeform, I see. I thought this would be a way to make the problem easier in the short/medium term. but I've had to deal with being at the mercy of X myself at another level so this makes sense.
asciilifeform: you're welcome to spend 7 more. alternatively you can learn from my work.
asciilifeform: spyked: i spend 7+ yrs on this approach, and my verdict is that 'middle way' is a DEAD END
valentinbuza: hi spyked. I just read the MP blog a week ago :) saw your old comments