asciilifeform: i dun expect 'following' would tell one much, unless it is in the sense of 'followed gauleit^H^H^H^H^H^Hpresident and bugged his comp'
asciilifeform: ... or when it's time to close the torture dungeon for renovation and open new one
asciilifeform: i wonder whether usg even bothers to ask ro 'democratic' apparatus when it feels like moving the 'aegis' batteries from place to place☟︎
asciilifeform: moar of a 'without gun, the words go in 1 direction and are words 'drop on knees an' get ready to please' '
asciilifeform: no warheads -> not only no red carpet, but you get orders from washington transmitted through a leiah at usg dept of state , and not by going into white house.
asciilifeform: re sovereignty, i cannot resist to add a legendary tidbit : j. hariton , co-designer of sov nukes with kurchatov , in his last yrs of life was reputed to have uttered 'idiot , eltsin, thinks he is getting red carpet reception in washington because he is some kinda man, rather than because they think he has some of my warheads still in working order'
asciilifeform: what did napoleon(?) say , 'crown fell into mud, so i pulled it out'
asciilifeform: if the dynastic crown-wearer is enuff of a tard, then yes shoemaker, or cabbie, or defrocked priest, will wear
asciilifeform: wtf was a flunked seminary student an' bank robber was doing wearing crown, could also ask
asciilifeform: if yer wearing a crown and you really think 'no options' , you get out the wagner and cyanide and be sure to also dose blondie the dog 1st to make sure as fuck the cyanide is strong enuff
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is where i admit that it is above my paygrade to say just how 'maybe without shoemaker, less worse and shorter' . if there's a way to keep neighbours from turning yer congo into a resource extraction base without marching peasants at gunpoint to city and having'em stand in front of lathes to make kalashes, i do not know it☟︎
asciilifeform: ( tito -- imho genius, somehow pulled off 'communized heavy industry, but private biz for food etc' )☟︎
asciilifeform: tito's yugo, incidentally, similarly sovereign
asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'didn't get to the part where it gets better' << this is the distinct impression i get . and i suspect on acct of the shoemaker being soft.☟︎
asciilifeform: if these fire , folx in ro will be lucky to have what grows to feed horse, not even speaking of auto or frozen fish.
asciilifeform: e.g. ro, lost its sovereignty , and arguably the bill for ~that~ aint even remotely paid yet, nao it hosts nato rockets and became legit target for ru defensive systems☟︎
asciilifeform: it's a slow grinding process. but either the man with the crown sets it in motion, or shortly 'No-one needs to learn to read and write in order to carry rubies out of a deep mine. '
asciilifeform: stalin didn't either immediately conscript erry horse plower into factory.
asciilifeform: 'the west'(tm)(r) has 'fish in erry supermarket' , only on acct of the accumulated fat of entire generations mercilessly recycled into fuel . that fuel -- is running out, not long left until returns to historic norm of 'want fish, live by the sea and catch it'
asciilifeform: so you try an' make a 'new'. and pray that it worx, before 'a bunch of foreigners land on your shores, buy up some local chiefs, chop down your forests, rip the minerals out of your soil, enslave a few generations, and eventually go home, leaving their bastards in charge'☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: 'new man' is what happens when 'old man' dun want to get off his horse, basta, donotwant☟︎
asciilifeform: e.g. ru, cn , jp , followed ~same path, 'out of meat'. varied slightly in how the meat was herded out of farm and into factory, yes, but same raw material
asciilifeform: diana_coman: in what sense was the attempt 'out of nothing' ?
asciilifeform: on my admittedly short expedition i saw 5 dead factories , and 1 working -- little thing inside of much larger corpse ; and it made gears for bmw☟︎
asciilifeform: just as e.g. ru became mineral market
asciilifeform: the catch is that it aint optional, ro, bulgaria, etc. cancelled their shoemakers, lost industry, and now becomes feed base for foreigners
asciilifeform: diana_coman: to paraphrase mao, the jury's still out on whether industry was in fact good deal vs horse an' plow
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: is exactly what i meant as 'same relation as peasant to his horse', 'it is simply there'☟︎
asciilifeform: with the diff that auto is 100% powered by 'great inca', you cannot plant petrol inside 'field' in a washington flat to feed to it, nor breed a replacement for when dies
asciilifeform: tho observe also, as soon as the butchery is removed , mentality sinks rapidly back into 'peasant', modern-day ameristani has exactly same relation with his auto as peasant -- horse
asciilifeform: it is above asciilifeform's pay grade to say with what algo to industrialize a kingdom without mass engineered penury and a good helping of butchery for the folx who dun get message. afaik this problem has no known historic pill.
asciilifeform: but elementarily factory, roads, etc. are built out of pile of kicking, screaming meat, not 'from money' or any similar. england had its stalinization in 18th c.
asciilifeform: c ( or perhaps this ball belongs with dej ? ) maybe 'soft', or maybe thought could not afford to kill %% of his subjects, i do not presently know why not pushed.☟︎
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i am pleased to inform, we have regular blackouts in washingtonistan, despite 0 industry ( combo of 'errybody has air conditioner' , summer, and 19th c.-style pole wiring - winter )
asciilifeform: shoemaker, near as i can tell, didn't press the point very hard
asciilifeform: which is why stalin didn't bother to ask'em
asciilifeform: peasants quite logically dun want to industrialize, it is elementarily misery in immediate term☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: this kinda thing, 'would rather have no fish than rotten frozen', is presumably how ro ended up having to feed its horses to europistan as unlabeled mystery sausage when eurocrats banned horse on public road
asciilifeform: oddly enuff 0 of this where asciilifeform lived, but then again it ~was~ by the sea
asciilifeform: poseidon did not deign to make fish get out of ocean, walk to village, and jump into mouth..
asciilifeform: ~that~ is how i see the killing of the shoemaker.
asciilifeform: does anyone recall old thrd where mircea_popescu linked to a youtube clip of some idiot kid smashing up ancient car that his father gave him, 'cuz not mercedes' ?☟︎
asciilifeform: it sounds retarded, but in ru there was this genuinely large mass of people who thought 'oh hey now we will live like the west(tm)(r)'
asciilifeform: whod'vethunkit, 'communism cancelled' dun automagically transform an orcistan into 1950s manhattan.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i must add also that i went for a week to timis, and for 5 days went past fish market, each time finding there 0 fish. apparently shooting the shoemaker did not fix..
asciilifeform: when a wot (whichever wot, physics, austria-hungary, shitoshi's, etc - dun matter) makes the transition to 'institution', the ~actual life~ is definitionally to be found ~outside~ of it
asciilifeform: exactly like the 'actual chemists' nao, are the people who are looking for simpler syntheses of meth and 'ecstasy' out of not-yet-banned hardware shop crapola, and not the monkeys who sit all day doing http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-07#1900867☝︎
asciilifeform: sorta like the actual bitcoin maintainers, are here, and not mit.
asciilifeform: the lhc aint an instrument of physics, simply from the fact that the people who control access to it, and the catamites they grant it to, aint physicists ! the actual physicists are drilling little holes in aluminum , in kitchens.
asciilifeform: 'but asciilifeform , if you want lobster, you gotta build a $9000b fishing fleet' 'mno, here's 1 from your own dryer lint trap, and it can bend xrays and modexp in constant time, naowat'
asciilifeform: like napoleon's 'there is a marshall's baton in erry private's rucksack' item.
asciilifeform: those lobsters, mircea_popescu , cost 0, they are already invisibly in erry kitchen.
asciilifeform: argument is that the field went to stuff head up own arse, and took convenient excuse to 'you now NEED the high priest machine, or you aint in physics' to incaize
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: argument is not that you ought not to want to 'try it at high energy'
asciilifeform: but will add that i'd have easier time believing the 'physics picked the low-hanging fruit and now you NEED synchrophasotron for $trillion to do ANY' yarn , if it weren't a balloon fulla fart that i can on occasion puncture with fingernail without breaking a sweat
asciilifeform: recall story of where asciilifeform ~personally~ described to schwartz how to cut adelberger 100% out of the loop for under what mircea_popescu's bmw costs.
asciilifeform: whether physics-flavoured or wunderwaffen-flavoured or 'end poverty'(tm)(r)-flavoured, they're all quite alike
asciilifeform: the mega-cyclotron is not an instrument of physics, but of f35-style printing press diversion.
asciilifeform: when weighs 200kg, difficult for non-zoologist to distinguish boar and sow, is where the similarity.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, as i understand, maps the 'pig' to 'female', but the model is quite same, this is moar of a label on the knobs
asciilifeform: i.e. the 2 contenders in the ring, are man and pig
asciilifeform: the dichotomy amply documented by mircea_popescu & other folx
asciilifeform: e-style and 'let nuffin happen', ohnoez, 'happening could get in the way'
asciilifeform: upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901856 << i suspect this is red herring. it is 'institution' making a stab at regaining lost territory. asciilifeform's suspicion is that if 'history struggle', it aint between so much specifically 'new and old elite' as b/w human-man ( who wakes up and knows that he was put upon the earth to cut atom, build harem, etc ) and beetle-man, who 'knows' that he was born to eat from trough prikok☝︎
asciilifeform: ( recall, the not long ago thrd where a: 'cultures are born, live, senesce, and die, like organisms' m:'poppycock' a:'best i got that makes any sense of the sinusoid')
