log☇︎
134600+ entries in 0.079s
asciilifeform: when you craft a tx, it presupposes 1 particular history.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing fundamentally wrong with a non-mining coin, ie, where all coins are created at t0.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 02:33 asciilifeform: and, i'll add, in light of the luby proof-of-storage item.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 02:08 phf: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu do we want to keep the exclude functionality? i sometimes use it in test runs, but this'll let me get rid of regex (for now anyway)
trinque: obviously I'm looking into it, but I would like to hear what other people are seeing on their trb nodes. ☟︎
trinque: mats pointed out to me that all trb nodes he can see appeared to be consistently 50 blocks or more behind.
trinque noticing extremely fucky behavior around sending transactions with trb over the last few days at least.
phf: well, if you baked in color support, your code periodically enables a color mode, but doesn't immediately disable it. instead colors spit out as the execution unfolds. but if you catch an interrupt, you end up with a borked terminal. hence fucking complicated ass signal machinery to ensure that color gets restored on hup or suspend
phf: there's a concrete answer to that question!
phf: not to mention a fucking palette parser
phf: Pass the output through `pr' to paginate it.
asciilifeform: i suspect that if you ditch autoconf, and snip out ALL #ifdef crapola (esp. and inclusive of uniturdism and 'localism' ) you will end up with a sysv-sized util
phf: well, autoconf is not just scripts. it's also compatibility shims, which is a bit tricky in case of a differ, since, unlike mpi, it has a lot of file system interaction code, that might or might not be portable. anyway, we'll see
asciilifeform: kill autoconf. it has no place in this world.
phf: it's not even the entirety of autoconf, just things that are left un-included after fixing all the "missing file" errors from diff.c
asciilifeform: ( each candidate-tx is irreversibly bound to its author's picture-at-the-time of the complete world history )
asciilifeform: to round out the crackpottery : i've described what is more or less a working variant of ye olde warcrime, the multiverse coin ☟︎
phf: first pass line reduction of diffutils, from 300407 to 50312 ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ( to complete the picture above : no pow, but a tx ~does~ carry a lubyism, e.g. three lengths of 64bits , each of these the xor of 3 64bit substrings of the world-state, hashtronically selected based ~strictly on the tx payload's hash~ -- nothing to waltz, yer stuck with so-and-so lubyism obligation to fulfill by virtue of yer inputs being such-an-such and yer outputs such-an-such )
asciilifeform: but entirely possible that it was in my blind spot. so i'ma leave this here, and make moar detailed sketch if mircea_popescu asks , later.
asciilifeform: i modelled this item on paper, and did not find any obvious place in which to put a crowbar and make the thing break apart in the 'rewrite history' sense.
asciilifeform: to prevent 1 d00d with fat wallet from monopolizing all future blocks, would have to count 'mass' only for resolving forks of length 1 . (i.e. 1 block, however 'heavy', cannot 'outweigh' 2. )
asciilifeform: however there is no block reward. anyone can proclaim a block, so long as he can find one or more valid tx that haven't sat down in a block yet. the 'pow value' of the block , for the purpose of longest-chain, however, consists of the ~total coins moved~ in the tx-en that sat down in it.
asciilifeform: prolly i'm doomed to describe a complete algo nao. so consider : no pow. a block is 2^20 bytes . it can hold a certain # of fixed-length tx ( i will not repeat earlier scheme, with the luby etc., imho it was adequate. ) ;
asciilifeform: ( i.e. when you craft such a tx, you're doing it against a specific picture of whole blockchain, from t==0 to your highestknownblock )
asciilifeform: and, i'll add, in light of the luby proof-of-storage item. ☟︎
asciilifeform: this gedankenexperiment should be seen in light of the earlier 'all tx have absolute position and make references to absolutepositional outputs' item from earlier 'trbi' thread.
asciilifeform: suppose the bulldog and rhinoceros were cut apart.
asciilifeform: upstack re pow item : i'ma leave an observation for mircea_popescu ( and others, but he's prolly the one to crack this nut properly ) . consider how in classical bitcoin , pow is used for 2 entirely different and quite orthogonal items : initialcoindistribution, and rewindprotection (i.e. preventing history-rewriting) . it's a bulldog-rhinoceros. so q is, suppose that coin distribution somehow took place at t==0. do you still need po
asciilifeform has yet to taste this mythical item, 'good whisky'
phf: apropos out yesterday's mini thread about whisky. the only good kind of whisky comes in the jar
asciilifeform: '...there's whiskey in the jar...'
phf has been listening to The Dubliners, has a skewed perspective on work at the moment
asciilifeform: dunwanna diff it -- dun put it where things are gettin'diffed
phf: but i don't go into the details there either
a111: Logged on 2016-06-20 04:23 phf: which is handy if you're using something else to produce the patch, or if you need to use a non-trivial diff command. for example i sometimes need to exclude files from diffing, so a command might look like diff -x foo -x bar -x qux -ruN a b | grep -v '^Binary files ' | vdiff > foo.vpatch
asciilifeform: i have scripts that ruthlessly thermonuke the kind of rubbish that doesn't get diffed, instead.
asciilifeform: why wouldja do this, phf ?
phf: there's a couple of places where regex is used. exclude filters files by name, (so --exclude=.*c will skip those files by regex), exclude lines filters lines (obviously is not compatible with v), and there's also a function grabber, it's a little piece of code that ensures that, say, c function headers or certain pattern matching lines are in the hunk context
phf: right, realized too late :p
asciilifeform: which is this, phf
phf: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu do we want to keep the exclude functionality? i sometimes use it in test runs, but this'll let me get rid of regex (for now anyway) ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 23:58 asciilifeform: ( it is specifically a pill against 'can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others' aspect )
asciilifeform wonders whether he gotta commit another warcrime in the spirit of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1619719 , or to simply lay the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753876 item out in the l0gz, reasonably compactly. ☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: ( 'pow in tx not in block' )
asciilifeform: it uses an algo from an ancient mircea_popescu thread
asciilifeform: ( it is specifically a pill against 'can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others' aspect ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: upstack in re 'mining is a bug' , asciilifeform has a theoretical pill, potentially interesting , but will chew on it for some weeks -- there's gotta be a catch
mircea_popescu: i have no idea what the item would even cost today. billions, prolly.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : 32 hectares of land across the strip from the flamingo cost under 1mn in 1962.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-02 16:22 mircea_popescu: anwyay, revisiting an ancient conversation re http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mining+is+a+bug : i have to thoroughly concede this point to asciilifeform . the model is as follows : if a) a PoW system exists in which b) a participating entity can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others then it NECESSARILY follow that entity can, and therefore it ALSO follows that it eventually will c) impose further con
asciilifeform: ( sucks for the reason, incidentally, that mircea_popescu already fingered , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745524 and elsewhere ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: after 5yr of thinking about it daily, asciilifeform still has nfi what even ought to be asked of a pow !! ☟︎
mircea_popescu: but it's certainly there.
asciilifeform: i was about to say
mircea_popescu: it's not clear at this stage what you want.
asciilifeform: it's a bad thing if you want 'asic-resistant' or even fpga-resistant
asciilifeform: modexp in turn can be cut into B mod-mults, where B is bitness
mircea_popescu: not sure that is a bad thing. but yes, evidently large topic for discussion.
asciilifeform: ( multiplication parallelizes 3 ways , with karatsuba, and N ways with toom-cook )
asciilifeform: it's not necessarily good choice, in that it is very amenable to parallelization
mircea_popescu: but the contention here is that picking something like modexp is a better choice than just piling on hashes.
asciilifeform: in applications where people want 'expensive', they ask for 1e6 or whatever iterated hashes
asciilifeform: sha2 (and for that matter other hashes) weren't built to be expensive, quite opposite
mircea_popescu: ie, more expensive than plain shaing
mircea_popescu: primeness doesn't enter into this, we're just leveraging that apparently modexp is megaexpensive.
asciilifeform: what's to stop him
asciilifeform: so miner waltzed his nonce until it's a composite and trivial
mircea_popescu: let's take a = every other bit of n. to mine this block, you must produce an x so that x is twice the bitsize of n, and (x+a)^n is mod congruent to x^n + a (mod n)
mircea_popescu: suppose your block hashes to value n.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: humour me, how wouldja turn this into a pow
asciilifeform: ( though even there , you'd shed 1 or 2 from the exponent , not earth-shaking necessarily )
mircea_popescu: incidentally...if this is so fucking slow... guess who just found a new pow.
mircea_popescu: it does at that!
asciilifeform: this is one of those things that really begs for dedicated iron
mircea_popescu: but the base factor can't be this fucking humongous ffs, it's just (x+a)^n vs x^n+a.
mircea_popescu: the order IS log^6, which was the great progress, originally it was log^12
asciilifeform: supposing anyone can be aroused to do it ( g++ aks.cpp -lgmp -o aks )
asciilifeform: i'ma let sumbodyelse alsotry, to make sure.
asciilifeform: i was hoping to find that i made a mistake, but the numberz check out.
asciilifeform: and the order is log(n^6)
mircea_popescu: ie, suppose the factors f1... f8 have bitnesses of 1,1,2,2,3,3,2042,2042. so then we try f1f3f5f7 and f2f4f6f8. and we also try f2f3f5f7 f1f4f6f8. and so on.
asciilifeform: btw that french aks is geological. n==11701 has been running for 10+ minutes, and is on ~9600; author's code indicates that answer appears at iteration 1000000007. that'd be 723 days on this box. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: it's a finite set of factors, they work together into fixed bitnesses only so many ways.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, we pray. and we try.
mircea_popescu: the thus reconstructed p and q should be tested for whether they indeed have no true witness of compositeness as low as gpg tests.
asciilifeform: and we don't know how the shit-dust comes back together to form what gpg thought was primes
mircea_popescu: each of these factors will have a bitness. admitting none of them has a bitness = 2048, they can be arranged into a p and a q so that each of these has a bitness of 2048
asciilifeform: it'd be one of the shit-dust ones
asciilifeform: rather than '2 fat factors'
asciilifeform: that's what it'd actually look like, if this animal exists
mircea_popescu: the ~other~ part of it is : suppose (i don't have example ready, but constructively) there's a N that popped into factors f1... fm.
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit, stronger m-r found both to be prime
asciilifeform: but it isn't clear to me why weaker koch test would have different answer than stronger m-r
asciilifeform: not specifically; was tested only using gmp's m-r. really oughta do both.
asciilifeform: the first passed m-r . it's the only primality test currently in battlefield use.
mircea_popescu: was it ever checked whether it would appear prime to koch-gpg ?
mircea_popescu: yes ; but the first ?
asciilifeform: and the bottom item was reported as a factor on account of each, taken separately, having passed gmp's m-r after the 1st was found.
asciilifeform: only to a numbers that are factors of 2 or moar moduli. and they dun come with any certificate of primality, except for the smallest 'dust' ones