log☇︎
11200+ entries in 0.105s
trinque had a proper brio set as a kid
asciilifeform: esthlos: i recommend to read whole set of search output earlier, as part of your log eating , there was even an instance where asciilifeform went and got actual quotes from small fab houses
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 02:06 asciilifeform: costs of chip fab as we know it, and of orbital launch, are even comparable.
asciilifeform: if you can build equiv of, say, dec vax ( as su , in its last yrs of life, did ) you have something like fab-sovereignty.
phf: from that perspective climacs is a better approach: common lisp as a vm, mcclim as an application authoring framework, climacs as an editor widget
esthlos: somewhat on topic, as someone still reading logz: is eventual plan tmsr dataflow lispm revival? heathen iron has to be abandoned, no?
Mocky: but as you say asciilifeform, problem is deeper than that
asciilifeform: ( granted, oasis where the giraffes , hippos, shit in the water, but nevertheless surrounded by sand as far as eye can see and quite appealing to the initiated )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aa makes sense. i assumed you were speaking of clones -- orig. 16f never made it as far east as my orcistan
asciilifeform: ftr, prolly the most enjoyable programming asciilifeform ever did as adult, was on a device called 'pic16', a microcontroller with 68 addressable byte ( and 1k of program rom, it was a 'harvard arch' )
asciilifeform: picture, game in 104 byte, and with 7 numeric digs as sole output.
mircea_popescu: this is not directly evident to me. it is impossible to use the killer micro as a timeshare machine, yes.
asciilifeform: could just as easily say that e.g. leibniz's calculator 'not so great machine'
asciilifeform: errybody outgrew the von neumann box as soon as they started trying for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1827189 ☝︎
asciilifeform: same thing as in the earlier emacs thread
asciilifeform: same thrust as the fritz/cr50/etc nonsense.
asciilifeform: the heathens know this, and so they specifically put mega-effort into making 'get the text out via awk-like' as painful as possible.
mircea_popescu: my choices work as lynx/curl.
asciilifeform: iirc there is a wwwtron , of a kind, built into emacs; it is in roughly the same condition as climacs.
mircea_popescu: who's gonna rewrite this into sanity ? and why, so as to save the mozillatards ? break all the cr50s they scattered everywhere to save them ?
mircea_popescu: THIS is what i fucking mean re views. if i wanna see my data as a graph it'd be useful if it were right there in the editor, and if i wanna see websites it'd better also.
mircea_popescu: this pretense is just as good present as absent, you know ?
asciilifeform: ( as for the orig idjit trying to leverage 'his brand', d00d's been at it for quite some time, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-03#1732650 ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: the tunneling behaviour of x11 makes it practical to use a box with no video card, no kbd, etc. as a full-bore workstation ( and this was used as early as the bolix lispm )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 04:57 asciilifeform: well, on classical x11 i have, e.g., machine that runs, say, 20 gui proggies, and each one 1) is on an entirely different machine, somewhere else, some of them not even on same continent 2) behaves EXACTLY as if it were running locally, window reshapes, etc 3) none have any shared state with the others, each sees local disk only of own local machine etc
mircea_popescu: maybe i really don't want to look at it as a succession of numbers. why, because i'm such a troglodyte ?
mircea_popescu: is it ~so wrong~ to want to have either literal or graphical display for a csv, as an option ?
ben_vulpes: i'm amenable to dom as presentation model, but abhor the browser scripting language and the cpp hydras that render the html/css/jsoup. that said if we cut "teh modern webb!" off entirely, i'll hafta bifurcate my workbench.
ben_vulpes: implementing the DOM and all of the california complexity doesn't mesh neatly with the text rendering already extant. i use emacs as wm around browser and some other things (not many other things, really, but 'modern' dom-o-tron is sadly yet central to $work), for the expediency of my workbench having a single scriptinglang to move windows around, split whole monitor and arrange for specific workflows...
mircea_popescu: best definition of what a cult is, incidentally. "why was this cut there specifically ?" "i dunno." that's it, that's a cult. can't answer as to why was something cut where it was.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so then, if no builtin browser, why have emacs as wm at all.
mircea_popescu: anyone ever tried to turn a csv into a png ? something like say http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-as-seen-by-mircescu/ ; very practical need driven item. it's a fucking travesty!
mircea_popescu: if emacs is the wm, then it'd better a) rid me of browser and b) be capable of previewing for me the graph / naked slut / we i'm about to put on trilema, both BEFORE uploading and as part of the final page preview.
mircea_popescu: which is why the idiots make feeble efforts to reunite them, as recently lulzed at wrt unity, a few days ago
mircea_popescu: there's good reason to equate os and code editor, incidentally. as the ~fundamental~ job of an operating system is to transform machine failures into debug sessions.
mircea_popescu: as far as i can tell, we've not yet said "emacs is really not the name we give the tmsr-os"
mircea_popescu: people who expect to run it atop musl as opposed to atop gnarl, that's very much who.
mircea_popescu: but the dos discussion, as well as the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1827171 should set this on sane footing. ☝︎
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i also use it as wm; will endure the occasional freeze-ups because if emacs has died well then the whole machine's utility to me has gone to epsilon anyways
asciilifeform doesn't, because does not particularly like the 'emacs hosed, all machine may as well reset' dynamic
phf: mircea_popescu: it's not, but as the mail trinque linked points out "the right solution requires a significant overhaul by someone with expertise in emacs internal"
asciilifeform: by this logic could just as well omit trb from cuntoo
mircea_popescu fully expected another rehash of "oh, it's glacial", as people then present no doubt remember.
mircea_popescu: eminently fixable, too, as problem === pain now.
trinque: freedom rather than bureau of keybindings, disorganized and distributed in the heads of shithub derps as it is
trinque: I'm proposing the right design is that in installing any module for the editor, you must as a matter of protocol attach its functionality to your keyboard in order to use
mircea_popescu: trinque so then your desk can't be part of paperwork delivery because courrier doesn't know how to leave you paper ; and you'll have to clea nthe room yourself as the black woman hired to clean the place can't interact with your desk ?
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as most elisp in the wild is broken.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: emacs is a 'modal' system, i.e. every programming language gets a mode, implemented as a set of elisp proggies, that completely changes the behaviour of the editor to (ideally) make it entirely suited to writing that particular form of text
mircea_popescu: as it stands right now, i truly can't grok the fundamental difference between the behaviour you describe and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814985 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 17:36 phf: there's also the thing that emacs started as a lisp machine tool with a certain set of binding and behavioral conventions, and then slowly moved away from those conventions towards "user come to expect". we can't even talk about consistency here because things change drastically from v19 to current v25. e.g. <return> is newline <control-j> is newline and indent. but these days "everyone" expects return to newline and indent so the change has been globa
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826979 << phf i for one would not be opposed to 'rewind to 19 and patch as-needed', like we did with trb. ☝︎
phf: xahlee actually went as far as releasing egroemacs where he reworked every single keybinding, making the result obviously incompatible with most elisp in the wild
mircea_popescu: which, imo, is enough to PERMANENTLY bury even the notion of "open source" as a "collaborative" endeavour.
asciilifeform: not admit which ? it's obvious as daylight that the thing is a danger to life and limb if uncrated by naive lamer and used as-is
phf: there's also the thing that emacs started as a lisp machine tool with a certain set of binding and behavioral conventions, and then slowly moved away from those conventions towards "user come to expect". we can't even talk about consistency here because things change drastically from v19 to current v25. e.g. <return> is newline <control-j> is newline and indent. but these days "everyone" expects return to newline and indent so the change has been globa ☟︎
asciilifeform: as repeatedly pointed out by e.g. naggum, the defaults pre-date pc kbd and are ~guaranteed to give you carpal disease
mircea_popescu: dawgs, the question was as to usercount. he answered, that he dun use it. what moar.
trinque: I would stand by the claim that emacs *can* be a time-sink, just as moving your desk around the office each day can, but it doesn't have to be, and isn't inherent in the tool
trinque lives in the thing as window manager even
phf: that's very true, elisp is not particularly bad as a scripting language. with some effort can be stripped of extra baggage
mircea_popescu: consider -- if we agreed as indeed we seem to have that scripting language (eg, for eventual webatron, and for everything else) should be lisp dialect,
asciilifeform: phf: it is 'harmful and oughta die' in same way as linux
mircea_popescu: if all this "milkmaid didn't cut it as duchess" patter ends up drowning out http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826891 ima be pissy. ☝︎
asciilifeform: douchebag: it helps to learn to tell the truth, at least in spare time, as hobby. folx dun like liars. ( and yes lie is mandatory in usg/sv. but it dun win you any friends here. )
a111: Logged on 2018-06-17 16:32 mircea_popescu: !!rate douchebag -1 as it turns out, the more elaborate effort one puts into distinguishing gold from sand, the more elaborately sandy sand the one ends up with. gold is irrespectively evident on the first pass.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they had an ok time for a spell, with unofficial cartel ( jd from nomenklatura schools, e.g. harvard, were auto-employed ) but as i understand this train has left
asciilifeform: douchebag: as i understand you dun have long at the microphone; care to say something pithy ?
mircea_popescu: "these magical bits were found on '''your''' computer, and as we all know NOBUS coulda put 'em there"
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 16:04 mircea_popescu: and we can keep going, but you get the idea. russians had managed to make themselves as impopular as humanly possible with the ~only martial neighbour it had at the time.
mircea_popescu: and we can keep going, but you get the idea. russians had managed to make themselves as impopular as humanly possible with the ~only martial neighbour it had at the time. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: the much-celebrated-by-axehandles, today as in the radio free europe days "historical parties" cocksuckers kept sending letters "pointing out the problems", in the jewfuriating way they go about this, like idiot 15yos going "but dad, if house is foreclosed we'll lose out on our investment in carpeting" sorta bs.
mircea_popescu: exactly. he said as much, repeatedly, and was plainly correct, which is why army followed.
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the mystery-ii, the only way out i see is exactly as yesterday. that thing discussed on trilema a decade ago : http://trilema.com/2009/romanii-si-munca/#comment-6410
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is not true, however. he had an !!up, from cuccia, as discussed yest. and they knew "who he is", so that wasn't the impediment either.
asciilifeform: what part of mussolini puzzles mircea_popescu tho? is it the part where he picked the unwashed lusers over sicilians ? as i understand, he couldn't have 'picked' the sicilians, given as he wasn't anyone in their wot. he was of, and for, the unwashed.
mircea_popescu: see, italy in the 30s ACTUALLY HAD people in it. us ~never had, as best as can be discerned, samuel clemens marks down the one or two he found in a 3k mile trip as extreme rarities, in the 1800s.
mircea_popescu: and yes, "i'll take all measures to protect the lordship from criminals". doh. but then "criminals = the cool people ; the lordship = the baaaaaaa crowd" ?! what the fuck is broken in these brains, that they manage to evaluate 1=1 as true but then 1+1=1+1 comes out false ?
asciilifeform: ( at some later point we can contemplate such luxuries as depythonization, say. )
trinque: idea is v-portage becomes the primary portage repository for the system. ebuild porter can bolt in gentoo's portage as an overlay, should be very easy
asciilifeform: 'Outgoing Harvard University president Drew Gilpin Faust tried to pre-empt the news in an e-mail sent to Harvard alumni and “friends”: In the weeks and months ahead, a lawsuit aimed to compromise Harvard’s ability to compose a diverse student body will move forward in the courts and in the media. As the case proceeds, an organization called Students for Fair Admissions—formed in part to oppose Harvard’s commitment to divers
mircea_popescu: mcdonalds/walmart adapt to the exact needs of each customer coming in! ask them! and if this adaptation isn't obvious to you, it's because they are already perfectly adapted as they are. ask them!
a111: Logged on 2018-06-18 18:14 asciilifeform: or how meat gets , as matter of routine, an elephant dose from electron gun ( or, sometimes, co-60 ) , 'or unsafe to sell'
hanbot: don't imagine the kneejerk retort of it "wasn't intentional" is going anywhere. it was intentional, you're the degree of moron whose intentions are hidden from "himself", assuming we'll pretend there's a "yourself" to be hidden from in the first place. which we mostly don't. isn't this beautiful, he magicallly knows how everything goes, even how to sort things, starts with the fuck you, everything. just as long as it's pro-inca, 'cause being a re
asciilifeform: phf: re 'it's watery' , iirc we had a related thread about how prohibition turned usa into a country of rotgut drinkers, for whom the ~only important bit is 'strong', with sugars etc added as required
asciilifeform: or how meat gets , as matter of routine, an elephant dose from electron gun ( or, sometimes, co-60 ) , 'or unsafe to sell' ☟︎
asciilifeform: see also, the use of refrigeration ( plus ultra-pasteurization, see the milk thread ) as substitute for hygiene. tell an american that his ancestors did not need to refrigerate eggs, he'll laugh in your face, 'impossible'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: or , rather, as part of the microshit-orchestrated tpm concert that was set to begin playing in '07 or so
mircea_popescu: fucking backwards as it can be.
mircea_popescu: pro tip : southerners in egypt cca 3k years ago lived exactly like southerners in us cca 200 years ago : it was presumed they were someone's slave as a matter of course, because how else beast in city.
asciilifeform: upstack, italy et al were , as i understand, fucking around with cargo cult version of 'we too want british empire', sorta how 500yr earlier HRE derped with 'we want roman empire'
asciilifeform: could picture this as restoring from old, worm-eaten backup tape.
mircea_popescu: and consider also the makework angle, it's fucking beautiful. so german-italy, as a thoroughly nosnese piece of fanfic/wank, needs some sort of something to hold it together. what do they pick ? oh, eritrea! which they can't do, but need german airplanes etcv for (and still can't do). meanwhile sicilian-italy'd have had no such problem at all, THEY don't need eritrea for anything.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: duce , as i understand, was aiming for startopoligical throne, rather than primus inter pares among sicilian mob or the like
asciilifeform: blair, just possibly, actually grasped it, 'All three of the great dictators have enhanced their power by imposing intolerable burdens on their peoples. Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a more grudging way, have said to people ‘I offer you a good time,’ Hitler has said to them ‘I offer you struggle, danger and death,’ and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet.'
mircea_popescu: now try and construct a thought process explaining mussolini's choice in ~any other terms~ than the foregoing, i wish to see it. why exactly did he not say "o boy, i am so impressed, the government is henceforth to be formed exclusively from among the sicilian men of honor" but instead said "o boy, i am so impressed, the government is henceforth to be formed exclusively as per german orders" ?
mircea_popescu: so that waffling, inept d'annunzion wanna-be, amilcare andrea, is elected by his enemies as the least dangerous among his friends. cuz that's how papal elections work, and have worked since forever.
mircea_popescu: we could even go so far as to say that inca is the chain-of-knaves.
mircea_popescu: " 1880s because totally, that's what you have servants for, not to rule their life but to hide away cowering somewhere ; it's not just that ladri de biciclete clearly and plainly shows the ~exact same~ roman insulae, 1950 as 19.5 -- except thoroughly deserted of the pater familias that'd have ~been~ ~there~ in the first century.
mircea_popescu: it's at the very least what their lawyer entered as a plea.