▁▁▁▁▁▁▁⏐︎▁▁▁▁ 1974
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the problem here is this : i have various constructions in the real world, built out of people, who indeed think. their thinking covers 99% or so of the cases they encounter ; when a 1% strikes, they kick it up the ladder.
mp_en_viaje: three or four such ladders permit me to intellectually support VERY far reaching organisms, made of "thinking" people. the hard sense of think is this -- will dispose of ~any~ problem. yet the practical sense of think is, "useful as working piece in such organism".
mp_en_viaje: now, the question isn't whether computers can think in the sense of, stand in for mp.
mp_en_viaje: the question is neither whether computers can think in the sense of finding some place in there -- eminently already have.
mp_en_viaje: that'd be a "think" more like submarine swimming.
mp_en_viaje: the question of "can computers think" becomes "how far can this actually go", just how useful a computer can there be built. ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: and yes, this literally means there'll be computers smarter than MOST people. heck, extant computers already are smarter than most people, hence http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/
BingoBoingo: From the computers are better than file: http://archive.is/isTJS
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile at excel farms, https://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/Ragnagna/8089204/654518875/21kkiw-024-9orzzun.jpg
mp_en_viaje: between incel & excel, there's ourdemocracy nudly whole.
PeterL: bingoboingo: actually, I was able to get into WU just before cloing time
lobbesbot: PeterL: Sent 2 hours ago: <BingoBoingo> Settle tomorrow morning like last time?
PeterL: * closing
PeterL: bingoboingo http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4SNr7/?raw=true
PeterL: !!invoice BingoBoingo 0.094 Pizarro WFF Action 8May2019
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/eRXB7/?raw=true
PeterL: !!v 3A93B4865215B6E58096D7774BA4B36F4F499169B6F839578C651CCCF3178F32
deedbot: Invoiced BingoBoingo 0.094 << Pizarro WFF Action 8May2019
BingoBoingo: PeterL: ty
BingoBoingo: Will pick up in the morning
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911451 <-- ftr, this is sorta how thetarpit currently works, tho the "spit out html" step in this loop is (for now) human-operated ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:06 mp_en_viaje: if lisp-o-tron spits out html files and apache delivers them, this will be web-fast
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911470 , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911582 <-- lulz, went in that area but didn't notice the place. found other "cultural layers" tho, with e.g. vomit on top of old clothes on top of bottles on top of ... will post some soon. ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 16:11 asciilifeform: btw, for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911403-completeness strictly, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/cultural_layer_1.jpg , http://www.loper-os.org/pub/cultural_layer_2.jpg .
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 19:09 asciilifeform: extra upstack lulz, re 'cultural layer' : google helpfully informs that it has thickened !
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911562 <-- I will give hunchentoot a second look as well, in light of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911437 ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 17:44 lobbes_field: As such, I'll start poking around at mod_lisp, et al. Will report back
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:00 phf: mp_en_viaje: it's the shitsoup ecosystem, there's a handful of packages smartly written, like hunchentoot or cl-http, and then there's new wave of cffi-everything approaches, that stand tall and pretend to be people
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-07#1911649 <-- re beaches, sq km of sandy shore relative to sea opening. tho I wouldn't be surprised if turkey had more total, afaik their black sea shores are mostly rocks. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-07 21:09 mp_en_viaje: spyked, chock-full. though it's unclear to me how you reason re "having beaches", and in any case the fucking of eastern girls was more the 90s than the 70s.
mp_en_viaje: turkey is afaik the ~only contender to cr substitute beaches this side of the world.
spyked: re fucking eastern girls, I wouldn't know myself, but my sources (people who worked in the hotel industry at the time) say that plenty of it happened. but more in the 90s, sure.
mp_en_viaje: but not in mediteranean ; they have nice mediteranean beaches.
mp_en_viaje: spyked, people like to pretend. have you ever seen http://trilema.com/2016/e-pericoloso-sporgersi/ ? exactly representative of 80s "fucking like rabbits", "ma stii pe mine -- punct ochit, punc tlovit" etcetera.
mp_en_viaje: nobody was fucking anyone ; and if it wasn't for the us that invented fucking via porn in the 90s, nobody would be fucking anyone today, either.
spyked: on the other hand, why go to neptun and not, say, nice, other than "romania, nice country, beautiful girls"
spyked: (in the 70s-80s I mean; neptun's a ghost town nowadays)
mp_en_viaje: well, watching girls in bikinis. honestly i think most men would much prefer hanging out with a bunch of scantily clad girls they're not fucking than actually have lots of sex.
mp_en_viaje: i have come to suspect the ideal arrangement for the average male is having a house with a pool in a sunny climate and a ~17 yo daughter who has a lot of sleepovers.
mp_en_viaje: best of both worlds, perpetually surrounded by adolescent cunt, never expected to give it what for, nobody else likely to trespass and do it for you...
mp_en_viaje: certainly accounts for the jewish princess pheronomenon.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in "where the fuck IS everyone" lulz, https://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/Ragnagna/8089198/1997969519/4fu5ak-004-wdjeb1t.jpg
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/this-is-the-biggest-mess-this-kitchens-ever-seen/ << Trilema -- "This is the biggest mess this kitchen's ever seen!!!"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-09#1912142 << in 1721 a (wooden, pedalled) submarine was demoed in front of peter 1. he also asked 'how far can it go.' paid to build coupla moar. eventually unimpressed and demoted the builder to ordinary shipyard carpenter. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-05-09 00:44 mp_en_viaje: the question of "can computers think" becomes "how far can this actually go", just how useful a computer can there be built.
mp_en_viaje: aha.
asciilifeform: https://static.kulturologia.ru/files/u20225/202255783.jpg << subj (reconstructed) .
mp_en_viaje: amusingly enough, one ~could~ actually build air pumps and air pressure tanks out of wooden tech. so in principle pre-industrialization world could have had useful sub.
mp_en_viaje: the problem is one of pathway -- neither can be DISCOVERED on wood.
asciilifeform: not only could, but did
mp_en_viaje: now, that we discovered them on metal, can retrofit. but at the time... did they ?
asciilifeform: but it worked approx as well as current-day 'thinking comp'
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: counter-intuitively, problem wasn't the wood (they weren't trying to, nor needed, to go kilometer under water, but only below where can be seen from victim vessel)
asciilifeform: problem was the flexible seal around the oars
asciilifeform: had to be leather, no rubber yet.
asciilifeform: leather sucks as wet seal.
asciilifeform: same thing that sank the 1700s air rifle from older thread.
mp_en_viaje: ~everything besides rubber sucks for that i guess.
asciilifeform: indeed
mp_en_viaje: see, here's wjhat i don't understand : why oar ? should have had closely fitted rod powering a propeller of some sort, and have a reverse spiral carved at the fitting juncture
mp_en_viaje: so that the spinning pushes the water out, like archimede's screw
asciilifeform: propeller has same problem. funnily enuff enuff, even today wood is used for the seal, but needs ~dozen metres of length, hence bigger vessel ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-15 22:21 asciilifeform: interestingly, the connection b/w great ships and serious wood , is not entirely gone in modern time -- sov type 636 submarine has shaft bearing from lignum vitae
asciilifeform: ~could~ have been built in 1700s, with propeller and lignum vitae. but would've required scaled up vessel, and, as the smaller ones failed -- not built.
asciilifeform: 'quantity has quality of its own'(tm)(r)
asciilifeform: pretty typical , imho, 'lisp machine' situation.
mp_en_viaje: i guess so.
mp_en_viaje: lotta retrospectively-theoretically-available techs in this vein, really.
asciilifeform: aha. and among these, quite a few like this, where the Right Thing was not found specifically cuz it was not available at the ~scale~ of the demo model.
BingoBoingo: !!pay-invoice PeterL 3
BingoBoingo: !!pay-invoice PeterL 3
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/v0WGF/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: !!v C8E14B987B3D874316C9CFD50D858671C0311C36071AC702B61CFFABB6BEF77A
deedbot: BingoBoingo paid PeterL invoice 3
billymg: BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2019/05/dying-of-the-light-in-detroit-new-led-streetlights-approaching-systemic-failure/ << should the first sentence read "...newly installed LED streetlights are displaying signs of end of life wear..."?
BingoBoingo: billymg: tyvm
billymg: np!
billymg is happy to report he's made it safely to tx
BingoBoingo: Very nice. Wearing a six shooter on your hip yet?
billymg: not yet unfortunately
BingoBoingo: Kinda thought that would've been in the welcome basket
billymg: lol
billymg: still taking care of the tedious chores and whatnot of relocating, but operating with a much elevated mood
BingoBoingo: six shooter, brisket, unseemly thick toast, and a welcome to the neighborhood
asciilifeform: seems like this makes... 3? trinque , ben_vulpes , billymg .. in tx
asciilifeform: oughta meet in a dusty spittoon saloon somehere.
billymg would certainly not be opposed
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/tor-using-usg-whistleblower-hit-with-charges-after-leaking-to-omidyars-rag-yet-again/ << Qntra -- Tor Using USG WhistleBlower Hit With Charges After Leaking To Omidyar's Rag (Yet Again)
BingoBoingo: ^ Another "Reality Winner" type capture
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local Pantsuit campaign stunts: https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Martinez-encaro-a-un-hombre-que-le-grito-en-un-acto-politico-Terminaron-en-paz-uc717774
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/berlin-park-workers-reserve-spaces-for-asylum-seeking-drug-dealers/ << Qntra -- Berlin: Park Workers Reserve Spaces For Asylum Seeking Drug Dealers
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local poverty https://www.infobae.com/america/america-latina/2019/05/09/cayo-monica-sosa-la-mujer-que-buscaba-recuperar-a-balazos-contra-su-familia-el-control-de-la-principal-banda-criminal-del-uruguay/
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/usg-cuts-electricity-to-venezuelan-embassy-in-dc/ << Qntra -- USG Cuts Electricity To Venezuelan Embassy In DC
mp_en_viaje: pretty lulzy, they can't cut power to bum dwellings even
mp_en_viaje: in other insane wtf : i'm going through the paperwork of caradgea voivod (1818s, "tara romaneasca"). supposedly the public expenditure that year was 8`473`137 thalers (of which, post maintenance, over one sixth).
mp_en_viaje: now, the thaler is a german silver coin, 22.2 grams of 3/4 silver. meaning the romanian principality expended that year > 140 tons of silver, something like 280 MILLION pounds sterling.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile re the british imperial budget of 1816 was in that year reported to the earl of liverpool as "the immense sum of 14mn sterlin gper annum"
mp_en_viaje: literally, "And let it be recollected with triumphant pride by every true Briton, that this has taken place in the concluding years of a war of unexampled duration and unequalled expence ; when twenty-two years of continued hostilities had swelled the expenditure of the country to the enormous amount of 14,000,000 sterling per annum ; and when the salvation of Europe had been effected by the unremitting fortitude and perseverance of this nation in
mp_en_viaje: the support of burthens which no other people could have borne for a tenth part of the time."
mp_en_viaje: well... apparently one of the two romanian principalities was bearing twenty times that much ?!
mp_en_viaje: something's definitely amiss here (and no, the whole phanariote period did not see in excess of 100 tons of silver, holy hell.)
hanbot: 2 lb to the kg, so in 140 tons then 300k or so pounds
mp_en_viaje: oh, right, right.
mp_en_viaje: still seems too much, tbh.
asciilifeform eats log, sees runaway decimal point, but then finds that hanbot already found, lol
asciilifeform returns to battling regexp liquishit