taub: < Bugpowder> its actually half doc / half porn.
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.147 = 0.441 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.14319 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 6 @ 0.143 = 0.858 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 20 @ 0.14 = 2.8 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1550 @ 0.00333521 = 5.1696 BTC [+]
gribble: There are currently 30741115 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 7716124.53316 USD in total. | Data vintage: 151.0175 seconds
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.45 = 1.35 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.005 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 30 @ 0.1313 = 3.939 BTC [-]
pgp: isn't there normally more like $10MM on bid side?
Bugpowder: well if by normally you mean in the last 3 days of insane buying, yes.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.45 = 0.9 BTC [+]
pgp: a lot of bids have been pulled
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.125 = 0.375 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 40 @ 0.12104 = 4.8416 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.45 = 1.35 BTC [+]
gribble: smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 hours, 12 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <smickles> well, poo
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 75 @ 0.12102 = 9.0765 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.87000000 / 1.94453478 / 2.00000000 (23 shares, 44.72430000 BTC), 7D: 1.80000000 / 1.92572839 / 2.08000000 (162 shares, 311.96799996 BTC), 30D: 1.40001001 / 1.80151405 / 2.08000000 (737 shares, 1327.71585265 BTC)
gribble: There are currently 30794.949 bitcoins offered at or under 200.0 USD, worth 4689431.10089 USD in total. | Data vintage: 73.3201 seconds
assbot: [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 93.3570601 / 108.23895332 / 135.79703245 (19608 shares, 8,036.44 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)
mjr_: let's see how long this lasts
gribble: There are currently 33883.478 bitcoins demanded at or over 80.0 USD, worth 3259848.25857 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0051 seconds
bgupta: so apparently anonymous took up mircea_popescu's call to pretect freedom by preventing the rise of bitcoin, but instead of selling btc as their methodology, they are ing usin g a ddos against mtgox. Hey if it can't trade it can't rise. ;)
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 115.10000, Best ask: 115.19999, Bid-ask spread: 0.09999, Last trade: 115.20000, 24 hour volume: 134283.56443513, 24 hour low: 113.47500, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.50960
bgupta: mircea_popescu: Well you gotta admit that the ddos took the wind out any thought of a retry at insane rally today.
bgupta: You think a ddos against the major btc exchange would help a rally?
Bugpowder: hmm... how is the reddit sentiment index doing
mircea_popescu: moreover, as shockingly crummy service this is, it's not much outside of mtgox normal range.
dub: <MagicalTux> dub: except that'd be illegla
jurov: they should just ask theymos for some of the stash
jborkl: wow, that is a lot of unconfirmed
bgupta: it kinda serves the same purpose of a short circuit, breaking whatever momentum insanity is going on in market
mircea_popescu: what with the decrease in nodes it could be actually connectivity issues that prevent txs from making it into mempools
jborkl: we are showing 855 nodes today
jborkl: oh really, 5.3- really new record
mircea_popescu: jborkl i am thinking : if they aren't well distributed (ie, concentrated in major dc hubs)
mircea_popescu: then the latency to move txs around could actually account for some of the uncofirmed pile
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 113.50000, Best ask: 115.00000, Bid-ask spread: 1.50000, Last trade: 115.00000, 24 hour volume: 134283.56443513, 24 hour low: 113.47500, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.50960
gribble: Error: "nodes" is not a valid command.
gribble: Error: Problem retrieving gox lag. Try again later.
jborkl: I have seen many people reporting 12-15 hours on transactions with fees
jborkl: depends on what time of day and what is going on
jborkl: tell you the truth- I noticed after most people rolled out .81
gribble: There are currently 30744690 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 7807337.72401 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0097 seconds
deadweasel: opening in July 2013 'The Correction' starring angelina jolie.
jborkl: but, there was also a huge price swing at the same time, so hard to tell
Bugpowder: I got bids starting at $91.8 anyone else?
jborkl: cavirtex, bid starts at 103 cad
Bugpowder: Bakewell is gonna show back up any minute now
jcpham: my txn from yesterday that was so screwy confirmed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.1 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.45 = 0.9 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.45 = 2.25 BTC [+]
jurov: i think never seen this before on mtgox
jcpham: poor gox trading engine
jcpham: i think i can, i think i can
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.87000000 / 1.94453478 / 2.00000000 (23 shares, 44.72430000 BTC), 7D: 1.80000000 / 1.92572839 / 2.08000000 (162 shares, 311.96799996 BTC), 30D: 1.40001001 / 1.80151405 / 2.08000000 (737 shares, 1327.71585265 BTC)
taub: I wonder if mtgox is halting on purpose to prevent price crashes
taub: of course it doesnt work :|
taub: EU did something where they banned short sales
dub: apparently the ddos is mitigated
taub: or close down exchanges after a certain % drop
dub: please login and sell all your coin
Bugpowder: closing down would be the stupidest fucking thing in bitcoinland
Bugpowder: close down at the bottom, you don't get a bounce.
dub: have you been to bitcoinland? I don't even want to think about the level of stupid you would need to get that low
mircea_popescu: taub it's been traditional in fiat to halt trading after drops
mircea_popescu: this was originally good and needed, because people needed to arrange backing.
jborkl: bottom, wtf are you talking about- we went from $20 to $150
taub: but not in the time of high speed electronic exchanges
jborkl: it did not need to be at 150 yet
assbot: [MPEX] [O.USD.P089T] 200 @ 0.08390371 = 16.7807 BTC [-]
dub: Bugpowder: what I don't like about today is api was still workign while web is down
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.45 = 2.25 BTC [+]
dub: I think its fixed now
dub: as of 10 minutes ago oslt
gribble: There are currently 30759476 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 7586263.08014 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0238 seconds
bgupta: inability to trade shakes faith in system and causes people to panic sell.
Bugpowder: that guy that had the wall at 90 needs to step in if we ping 90.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 9 @ 0.46 = 4.14 BTC [+]
gribble: MtGox lag is 648.276674 seconds. During this time, light travels 1.29913919623 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin from the Sun to Mars (1.52 AU).
taub: at least it's alive!
assbot: The vision of Christ that thou dost see ... is my vision's greatest enemy.
assbot: [MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 93.3570601 / 108.23895332 / 135.79703245 (19608 shares, 8,036.44 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)
jborkl: well, one guy cant stop it all by himself
dub: I've got a bid at 88.8 because china
Bugpowder: that guy had an order for 15 or 20k coins at 90.
Bugpowder: but why stop it till it gets that low.
mjr_: the five eights account
mjr_: reference to the account that brought down barings bank
taub: trading below the 24h avg
taub: doesnt happen often, but lately hasn't meant much either
mjr_: this is what happens when you fly too close to the sun
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.009998 BTC [+]
gribble: (bids [--under] <pricetarget>) -- Calculate the amount of bitcoin demanded at or over <pricetarget>. If '--under' option is given, find coins or at or under <pricetarget>.
gribble: There are currently 30793298 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 7900811.43311 USD in total. | Data vintage: 18.9365 seconds
taub: and not making any money
mjr_: someone needs to create vix for btc
mjr_: oh wait, that might just be btc itself
mjr_: buys finally made it to the engine lol
Riekal: I ran the test at bitminter.com/test
Riekal: and it even said my gpu was at 10.2 mh/s
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.39 = 0.78 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 9 @ 0.4 = 3.6 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 4 @ 0.000658 = 0.0026 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: also 4000 per episode ?! bwagagagaga who the fuck does this ?
[\\\]: mircea_popescu: a bunch of hillbillies who have no future
mircea_popescu: Adam Posen @AdamPosen (President, Peterson Institute for International Economics; member Bank of England MPC 2009-12; advises central banks & governments; proclaiming on policy daily) : #gold is the investment for silly people. #bitcoin is gold for people who don't save. Please make it go away. pic.twitter.com/UdbbxCiNXD
mircea_popescu: Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu 54s @AdamPosen What are you, like some sort of retard with a high self esteem ?
mod6: people in arizona are getting more strange i see
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.7003 = 1.4006 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7002 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.7001 = 3.5005 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 24 @ 0.7 = 16.8 BTC [-]
mod6: ya, arizona still pretty much kicks ass tho
mod6: i never spent too much time there. drove across it once though. fast.
mircea_popescu: 1. pretty much all bartenders are fuckable chicks ; 2. they buy me drinks like it's their bar and i'm their bro.
mircea_popescu: contrary to what people of walmart may lead you to believe,
mod6: that website has some serious feature-creatures
mod6: when I worked nights at walmart in tucson you see it all i tell you
mircea_popescu: The whistleblowing group WikiLeaks caused a storm of controversy in 2010 when it was able to download almost two gigabytes of leaked US military and diplomatic files.
mircea_popescu: The new BVI data, by contrast, contains more than 200 gigabytes
mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that being a govt official IS immoral,
mircea_popescu: of course msm would like to make it so it's the other way around.
mod6: [\\\]: "I'm just glad your mother didn't live to see you become a mermaid." "MERMAN... MERMAN!!"
mod6: mircea_popescu: it used to be that people didn't go into government service (unless .mil) until they were pretty successful in the private sector. Not any longer, its like people get out of school and they want to go right into government. What gives?
mircea_popescu: they have no skills, no ability and won't do any work.
mod6: yeah, certainly low ability to be a bread-winner or entrepreneur -- so just go into gov and get a cushy handout
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1219 @ 0.00070345 = 0.8575 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6781 @ 0.00070496 = 4.7803 BTC [+]
mod6: back in the day a guy would have a career for his life and then when asked or when he "felt the call of duty" would go into politics. More likely because at that level they can take even bigger amts of cash from lobbiests.
mod6: People over here are pretty convinced that if the government went away the sky would fall.
mod6: It's probably the furthest thing from the truth.
mod6: What self-respecting dude would ever let some spinless twit make the rules for him?
mod6: I better get off this soapbox .. lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00069971 = 6.3674 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 558 @ 0.00069484 = 0.3877 BTC [-]
mod6: I think people just want to be told what to do.
mod6: It's a short cut to thinking.
mod6: just give me a hammer and a sicle and tell me where to work and how to spend my money at the general store.
bgupta: and bitcoincharts is down again
mod6: those sites go up and down more than a las vegas hooker
mod6: So I read this book Anna Karenina a few years back and I recently saw the movie with Jude Law and whomever.. the new one.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 129.00000, Best ask: 129.84754, Bid-ask spread: 0.84754, Last trade: 129.84754, 24 hour volume: 156282.00223296, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.88957
mod6: Which kinda sucked actually because it was filmed like a play...
mod6: but it followed the book pretty close. Anyway, its interesting how the classes were so seperated. Like the character Konstantin Levin has all of these pesants that he litereally owns, as slaves.
mod6: And he feels bad about this in some fashion, so he takes it upon himself to join them in their daily labor in the fields, etc. And they actually resent him for it.
mod6: They want him to take his proper place as lord, and the peasants want to serve him in that way.
mod6: Not sure why i bring that up.
mod6: I'm pretty tired i guess :/
mod6: I like reading old books.
mod6: Always fascinating to compare and contrast the past with the present.
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19999 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.3711 BTC [-]
mod6: (21:34) < [\\\]> note to self, always go mudding with the windows open << yea! i heard darwin got these ding-dongs
[\\\]: I think copumpkin reserved that
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 4 @ 0.1028 = 0.4112 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <mod6> They want him to take his proper place as lord, and the peasants want to serve him in that way. << you know, people do.
mircea_popescu: this entire equality bs is an expensive fiction really.
assbot: [BTCTC] [COG.F] 1 @ 2.49 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7541 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7544 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7545 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7546 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.7547 = 2.2641 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 20 @ 0.7548 = 15.096 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.7549 = 2.2647 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.755 BTC [+]
mod6: Yeah over the last 25 years, at least over here, much of the social dogma is about how everyone is equal and must be treated as such.
mod6: It's hard to have competiton if everyone is supposed to be the same; however it also seems to manifest entitlement issues for sure. Nothing is equal, and never has been, but they say it is.
mod6: Its a gigantic mind-job.
mircea_popescu: all this angst and loneliness and rest of the bs they keep making sitcoms about...
mircea_popescu: it's really the story of slaves who can't find masters because they don't know they need them.
mod6: Yeah, I think that people just want to do their duty and do it well (whatever that means) and get the approval or reward they deserve.
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 167 @ 0.00177 = 0.2956 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6314 @ 0.00069956 = 4.417 BTC [+]
mod6: well, i better call sleep(), gn -assets :)
gribble: There are currently 11888.865 bitcoins offered at or under 147.0 USD, worth 1685894.41434 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0018 seconds
toffoo: not really, divie was lowest ever this week
toffoo: i think that's just an uptick from the selloff
assbot: [BTCT:ASICMINER-PT] 1D: 0.683004 / 0.74436 / 0.78997 (241 shares, 179.4 BTC), 7D: 0.66 / 0.76962 / 0.87968 (2896 shares, 2228.8 BTC), 30D: 0.59998 / 0.7656 / 1 (8136 shares, 6228.9 BTC)
bgupta: well it's just back up to where it almost was yesterday.. there was a minor selloff earlier
bgupta: they paid for something ike 100 wafers from this weeks div
toffoo: what's the format of those quotes? low / something? / high ?
mircea_popescu: this is like one of those when serial killer goes on to testify and tells the judge all those people were conspiring to kill him so he was perfectly justified
mircea_popescu: "In a bid to avoid revealing the details of a secret ruling on domestic surveillance, the White House has warned a federal judge that making the decision public could do “exceptionally grave and serious damage to the national security” of the country."
mircea_popescu: secret ruling. ruling is precedent and precedent is law. ignorance of the law is no defense.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00310001 = 3.1 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 168 @ 0.0031 = 0.5208 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.3 = 0.6 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.2731 = 0.8193 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 20 @ 0.273 = 5.46 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.25 = 2 BTC [-]
jurov: "I understand that many of you have a lot at stake here, but remember that Bitcoin, despite being designed to have its value increase over time, will always be the victim of people trying to abuse the system, or even the value of Bitcoin decreasing occasionally."
jurov: bitcoin designed to have its value increase over time... some outrageous memepic needed here
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 131.14373, Best ask: 131.16321, Bid-ask spread: 0.01948, Last trade: 130.00000, 24 hour volume: 142825.56797466, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.99877
jurov: from that mtgox announcement you linked
bgupta: if he thinks noone made money today he is an idiot
toffoo: your -pr girl already grilled it
toffoo: best part is apparently mtgox's official new communications platform is their Facebook page
mircea_popescu: no, im taking the time to blow this to bits, they're too stupid to live at this point.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1750 @ 0.00322848 = 5.6498 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.701 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3081 @ 0.0033333 = 10.2699 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.705 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.701 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13086 @ 0.00069956 = 9.1544 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2532 @ 0.00069696 = 1.7647 BTC [-]
ChaangNoi: sdice .25 50% moew down and its my buying range
taub: We can fix lag, but we cannot eradicate lag.
taub: i'm moving to bitfloor
taub: i doubled my cash couple times more in btc24
taub: im not gonna cash out cuz im not a scumbag tho
taub: but taht this is still being ignored tells a lot about the community
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00070496 = 6.9791 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 132.00001, Best ask: 132.48000, Bid-ask spread: 0.47999, Last trade: 132.48000, 24 hour volume: 136079.90017269, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.37137
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7571 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 5 @ 0.1722 = 0.861 BTC [-]
assbot: Last trade for VTX on HAVELOCK was at 0.4 BTC [-]
assbot: Last trade for S.DICE on MPEX was at 0.0033333 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.0031 / 0.00311302 / 0.0035 (389109 shares, 1,211.31 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.0032045 / 0.00439992 (1029316 shares, 3,298.45 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00375489 / 0.006 (1726965 shares, 6,484.57 BTC)
error4733: no more exit for S.dice ! Good luck to all holders
sturles: mircea_popescu: Do you know of any better exchanges?
sturles: I've tried many. MtGox is the fastest by far under normal circumstances, and the only one able to handle this volume.
sturles: If you know hoe to fix their problems, you should create a better exchange.
taub: was mtgox really a trading card exchange? i thought it was a rumor
sturles: A 100 Gbps DDoS isn't easy to handle for anyone. Reminds me of the Coudflare attack where the attackers went for their upstream providers and kicked out a few national IXes. I think that one was 40 Gbps.
sturles: taub: The first version by Jeb was based on a card trading exchange he wrote, yes.
sturles: It has been completely rewritten since then.
taub: (M)agic(t)he(G)athering?
taub: love that article btw
mircea_popescu: before htey couldn't afford that, so i get it. but now the yhave the money to pay for it,
taub: However, there are many who will try to take advantage of the system. The past few days were a reminder of this sad truth.
taub: yes, love the fact that you bash him for that
taub: just shows again how fucking uneducated they are
sturles: mircea_popescu: A good trading platform isn't something you can go out and buy.
mircea_popescu: taub in fairness pretty much everyone involved with bitcoin has had a huge task just dropped on their lap.
mircea_popescu: sturles you get a license. there's corps specialising in this.
taub: something that sucks less than mtgox is easy tho
mircea_popescu: what, you think the romanian stock exchange runs on software developped by romania's central bank governor ?
sturles: Yep, they could close their API and make people pay to be allowed to connect.
sturles: But I don't think that would help much.
taub: yea, but that isn't the problem yet i think, they aren't nearly at capacity from a hw standpoint
taub: they just have really bad software
mircea_popescu: they're already trying to copy the mpex broker model, but they're doing it stupidly/half bakedly
sturles: It will help against the lag, yes, but at the same time make MtGox less attractive to use. Less volume, less revenye. They will have to find a balance.
mircea_popescu: exchange and clearance are sepparate not because peopl;e have nothing better to do with their time, for instance.
sturles: taub: Do you know about any better exhanges? Any faster exchanges? Any other exchanges able to handle their load?
mircea_popescu: sturles each and every national exchange. ~100 of them.
sturles: mircea_popescu: Those are not for public use. You have to pay $$$$$$$ for a licence to connect.
taub: well, i'll be moving over to bitfloor and try them
sturles: And they don't have to handle balances.
taub: mtgox is still not beatable in liquidity of course
sturles: mircea_popescu: Revenue != profit.
mircea_popescu: again : this is not up to discussion. if you want to do this you'll have to do it. otherwise it's not done.
mircea_popescu: they'll copy the mpex model whether they want to or not, because the mpex model is not an accident
taub: there needs to be clearing houses/ brokers
mircea_popescu: which apparently makes me a rare bird, but that's really irrelevant.
taub: cant do it all in one
sturles: Any exchange can copy the mpex and try that model if they think it wioll work for a publick high volume exchange with high liquidity and trading volume. I don't.
mircea_popescu: but soon enough they'll figure the advantages of splitting it and that'll be that.
taub: okay, well it is possible, betting sites do it
taub: betfair is just a big exchange, probably more volume than mtgox
mircea_popescu: sturles you don't seem to understand that everything that works works like mpex.
TradeFortress: most people aren't gonna get gpg to trade on an exchange. seriously
taub: steady lag of more than a minute is not working by far
mircea_popescu: they're implementing the separate trade engine model (which is good)
sturles: How many thousands of traders does the swiss stock exchange have directly connected to their API?
mircea_popescu: and they will end up having to use brokers and separate clearance.
sturles: mircea_popescu: You want something else. And you are free to make something completely different from MtGox if you think it will be successfull. I don't.
mircea_popescu: sturles are you about to propose shithole mtgox doing 100mn a month is larger an operation than six ?
taub: There are a few things that we can implement to help fight the attacks, such as disconnecting the trade engine backend from the Internet. By separating the data center from the Mt.Gox website, we will continue to be able to trade
taub: THESE PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS
taub: i wonder what they do over there srsly
sturles: The "shithole mtgox" happens to be the only bicoin trading site able to handle this number of traders and activity.
sturles: If it is so simple to make something better, you should go ahead and do it.
mircea_popescu: sturles "Thanks to high capacity reserves and an average round-trip latency of just 37 microseconds for equity trading, investment decisions can be implemented faster and risks adjusted more quickly"
TradeFortress: I'm pretty sure many exchanges are going to hit similar amounts of lag if they reach gox's amount of users and trades
sturles: And I don't believe SIX has more people talking to their API than MtGox. Not for a second.
TradeFortress: but that doesn't make it something you should accept
mircea_popescu: sturles you don't believe six handles more trade thoroughput than mtgox ?!
sturles: mircea_popescu: That was not what I wrote.
sturles: mircea_popescu: You are comparing apples and oranges.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11539 @ 0.00069906 = 8.0665 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: listen, not to be an ass, but are you at all qualified to discuss this topic ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 711 @ 0.00069661 = 0.4953 BTC [-]
sturles: MtGox wouldn't be dreaming of their current volume if they converted to a traditional stock exchange model.
mircea_popescu: other than being involved in bitcoin, do you know anything about exchanges etc ?
sturles: So volume would be irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: because there seem to be pretty huge disconnects here i can't quite bridge.
sturles: Yes, I know a few things about exchanges and how they work.
mircea_popescu: so then what difference do you see between what i wrote and what you wrote above ?
sturles: Stock exchanges work by letting licenced brokers do their dirty work.
sturles: So MtGox is something completely different.
mircea_popescu: listen, just because you think it is doesn't make it so.
sturles: It is more of a broker than an exchange.
mircea_popescu: the model doesn't work tho, they need a platform to trade on.
mircea_popescu: once they get that nothing prevents them from being their own amtrade
sturles: An exchange handles a very limited part of the exchange process.
sturles: So, does Mpex handle MtGox's number of users, volume and frequency?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7571 BTC [+]
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: 0.106014966965 seconds
mircea_popescu: that's the key factor. get back to me when you see it over .2 or so.
sturles: mircea_popescu: At what frequency? How many trades per second?
sturles: And how many connected users?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7573 BTC [+]
sturles: Howe many trades per second?
mircea_popescu: as far as i know the most mtgox can take is something to the order of 10 simultaneous orders. certainly not 100.
TradeFortress: gox orders do tend to fill more asks/bids, don't they?
sturles: MtGox does no simultaneous orders for the same currency (BTC), because there is one order book. Like a stock exchange trading only one stock.
mircea_popescu: suppose 2000 users all happened to put an order in at the same time.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13582 @ 0.00069661 = 9.4614 BTC [-]
sturles: Two bids can not be matched against the same ask, for one thing. You need locking. MtGox also process all orders in strict sequence.
sturles: No sneaking in the order queue.
sturles: With only one asset to trade, it is impossible to match two orders at the same time.
sturles: Yes, and when the book overlaps?
sturles: That's basically what MtGox does.
mircea_popescu: yes. the problem here is this : mpex gets 2k simultaneous orders, lag stays under .2
mircea_popescu: mtgox gets 10 simultaneous orders, lag spikes over 100
mircea_popescu: look through their historical list, rarely will they report anything over 100 trades a minute, even at the height of height.
mircea_popescu: this is their engine choking, it can't process fast enough.
sturles: How many simultaneous orders do you think MtGox gets? My home network isn't able to handle their socketio feed of order book changes when the lag approaches 300s.
sturles: MtGox process more than 10 trades a second even during high load. The number of order book changes is _a lot_ higher.
sturles: The number of orders happening simultaneously (nothing does), is irrelevant.
taub: arent there like multiple open source exchanges?
sturles: None of them come close to MtGox in speed.
taub: not sure about that :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6507 @ 0.00069661 = 4.5328 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4811 @ 0.00069484 = 3.3429 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00069391 = 6.6615 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10682 @ 0.0006928 = 7.4005 BTC [-]
sturles: mircea_popescu: Does mpex really process 2k trades simultaneously for the same asset?
sturles: Or are you comparing apples to oranges again? Trades != order book changes.
taub: they have to decouple their frontside with registration, account management etc from their trading engine
taub: i dont think the matching engine can focus on matching ... it also calculates new balances etc
taub: and checks if you have enough balance to put in an order
taub: its got some fundamental design flaws :s
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 56 @ 0.00321 = 0.1798 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 16 @ 0.0032 = 0.0512 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 100 @ 0.00316 = 0.316 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 5 @ 0.00314 = 0.0157 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 32 @ 0.003108 = 0.0995 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: can you show me some documentation somewhere for this part : "MtGox process more than 10 trades a second even during high load. The number of order book changes is _a lot_ higher."
sturles: taub: A few things can be done, yes. An important (to me) feature of MtGox is the ability to have inactive orders (due to lack of funds) automatically activated when funds arrive. Removing this feature, and only allowing funded orders, will speed up the exchange a lot. But it will also remove an important feature making the exchange less attractive for that reason.
taub: that is a nice feature, but it lags the engine down
sturles: Based on simple counting of trades in #bitcoin-market.
taub: its one of the main reasons it lags, and they can have that feature and still not make the exchange lag
mircea_popescu: having some tinker-product homebrew nonsensical thing used as a trade engine is nonsense.
sturles: mircea_popescu: I have been working in IT for more than 20 years, and homebrew beats commercial products in 9 of 10 cases,.
mircea_popescu: yeah well, i'm putting all this down to geek disease then.
sturles: mircea_popescu: You have to use the socketIO feed for that.
sturles: mircea_popescu: And my home network is only 6 mbit/s, so I can't follow it during the DDoS sessions. To many order changes.
mircea_popescu: no, just this bizzaro superman attitude. homebrew beats commercial.
mircea_popescu: wtf, we're talking about pretty much the one field where that's not the case.
mircea_popescu: i'm not interested in handling fiat and this is not an argument.
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00301 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 500 @ 0.003 = 1.5 BTC [-]
sturles: If you think you can go out buy a better bitcoin exchange, just do it.
mircea_popescu: this is a case of me having some competence and a bunch of geeks thinking they know better on the strength of their experience hacking their own nat router.
sturles: Yes, so far it is you thinking.
sturles: How many trades per second can mpex handle in the same asset while the number of orders are still ticking in at 2k/s?
mircea_popescu: it makes no difference. trades aren't a bottleneck. if the 2k orders result in 2k trades or 2k orderbook changes or nothing at all, it's the same.
mircea_popescu: obviously that's tested reality and real reality will diverge as soon as it gets a chance, but still.
sturles: How many currencies can I trade the same asset in?
sturles: MtGox supports matching buys and asks in different currencies to each other. How many does mpex handle?
mircea_popescu: what sort of left field nonsense is that! mtgox only trades bitcoin. mpex only trades bitcoin. that mtgox has usd and eur and aud and w/e assets
sturles: This is the second largest reason for their slowness.
mircea_popescu: whereas mpex has s.dice and s.bbet etc makes jackshit of a difference.
sturles: MtGox trades bitcoin against a long list of different currencies. A separate order book for each currency. Order books are connected at +/-2 2.5% of current exchange value.
sturles: This is the number two reason for slowness.
mircea_popescu: i would guess the long list of ~250 option lines is longer than whatever list of mtgox currencies
sturles: A bit more: USD, AUD, CAD, CHF, CNY, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, NZD, PLN, RUB, SEK, SGD, THB
mircea_popescu: so what, i can put an order to sell a bitcoin for 2 cad or 2.5 dkk ?
sturles: Because the order has to be reflected in all order books.
sturles: At currency conversion rate +2.5%.
mircea_popescu: don't be silly. there's no such thing. they query some service ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 200 @ 0.0033331 = 0.6666 BTC [-]
sturles: They use the current ECB rate for currency conversion.
sturles: Yes. The big deal is that one order book change becomes 16.
sturles: Rate changes may cause trades to happen-
mircea_popescu: mtgox still needs to get a real platform and professionalise.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin geeks still need to give up the disease and get serious.
sturles: mircea_popescu: What does homebrew has to do with anything?
mircea_popescu: you are sitting there and seriously telling me 16x replication is a big deal ?
mircea_popescu: this on top of the entire six doesn't come close to mtgox ?
sturles: Except showing lack of experience in IT.
mircea_popescu: listen, experience in it is a commodity. it's worth a salary, nothing more.
sturles: You are still comparing apples and oranges. SIX != MtGox. Not even close. In so many ways I don't even bother to get started.
mircea_popescu: as far as i'm concerned the situation here is that you are grossly unqualified to discuss this matter and still insist to do so (because as per the texbook you also lack the metacognitive abilities that'd allow you to realise you're way off).
mircea_popescu: the only way this goes any further is we start insulting each other, so let's just leave it be.
sturles: And believe me -- I have tried many times to get expensive commercial solutions to difficult problems to work, and in most cases I end up with a much faster and better working homebrew solution. Commercial software developers do it for their salary, not for efficiency, elegance or anything else.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 132.00000, Best ask: 132.98098, Bid-ask spread: 0.98098, Last trade: 131.83755, 24 hour volume: 125243.62956022, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.00000, 24 hour vwap: 127.71252
sturles: If you think you can buy a better exchange and make it work better, then please go ahead. Everyone will encourage you to do so. If you are successful, you better be prepared for 100 Gbps DDoS attacks as well, but that should be no problem because every broker has a dedicated line. Right?
sturles: How nice for you. No. How many trades per second was the DDoS able to generate, btw?
gribble: MtGox lag is 40.399133 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.0809594102008 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ten times between Saturn and Titan (0.0802 AU).
mircea_popescu: but seriously, please inform yourself before starting discussions, this is unseemly.
sturles: DDoS against MtGox is a bit more sophisticated then.
gribble: Current Blocks: 229633 | Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 | Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 | Next Difficulty In: 190 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 3 hours, 18 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 7785577.676 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.27508
mircea_popescu: and for the record, "mtgox ddos" is just mtgox crashing under sell pressure.
mircea_popescu: which, i would hope, you've read the most recent trilema article on and know how it was arrived at and why.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18085 @ 0.00070861 = 12.8152 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.0031 / 0.00311313 / 0.0035 (389309 shares, 1,211.97 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.00320452 / 0.00439992 (1029516 shares, 3,299.11 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00375453 / 0.006 (1726765 shares, 6,483.20 BTC)
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: S.DICE Bids: ['5000 @ 0.00212', '4000 @ 0.002101', '7500 @ 0.00123', '600 @ 0.001002', '100 @ 0.00100121']
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['5291 @ 0.00333', '21363 @ 0.00333333', '700 @ 0.0035', '1500 @ 0.00389996', '29541 @ 0.00389997']
sturles: mircea_popescu: You should at leas try to inform yourself about the DDoS against MtGox before coming with uninformed nonsense "for the record".
mircea_popescu: see, that's the problem here. when i tell you you have to read up i give you what to read up.
sturles: The pattern that has been repeated the last weeks is: DDoS starting against companies providing fast funding to MtGox, like Dwdolla, then a massive DDoS against MtGox, then only seconds later, massive selloff. Causing panic. Prolexis spends some time to mitigate the DDoS, and by then the panic is widespread.
mircea_popescu: when you tell me to read up there's nothing there outside of very bad mtgox pr.
sturles: It is from the mouth of MagicalTux.
sturles: I hope they continue. I profit massively during panics.
sturles: As long as they continue, I will be using MtGox. Hmm. Perhaps it is actually good for their business..
ThickAsThieves: people's rationale usually tends to lean toward where their profit is
ThickAsThieves: everyone that owns possibly too much asicminer stock, says "its underpriced!"
mircea_popescu: and if they happen to be used to something "it's great"
mircea_popescu: and if they're too lazy to read on something else "it's bad"
mircea_popescu: and on and on. sure. intellectual lazyness is the main driver of human behaviour.
mircea_popescu: but that aside, mtgox has been bleeding marketshare since late 2011
ThickAsThieves: they will probably flail with some ugly moves before letting go of this cash cow
mircea_popescu: but let's be optiomistic : they've been given a boon these coupla months
mircea_popescu: maybe they know what to do with it and reinvent themselves.
mircea_popescu: it's all spelled out for them, they can just steal it uncredited like before for all i care.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.39 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.38 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.37 = 1.11 BTC [-]
Uglux: thank god for another shitstorm on gox
gribble: MtGox lag is 0.056398 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.000113020960537 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin to the other side of the Earth, along the surface (0.0001339 AU).
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 133.14634, Best ask: 133.19999, Bid-ask spread: 0.05365, Last trade: 133.20000, 24 hour volume: 119965.62436588, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.00000, 24 hour vwap: 127.58826
ThickAsThieves: kinda had a feeling that the run up was caused by gox lag entirely
ThickAsThieves: i guess in the scheme of things its not a lot of people
troc: rumour info, its what people report when they are in the queue
troc: also via fb : Last year, Mt.Gox saw an average of 9,000 to 10,000 new accounts created every month. This number doubled in January, tripled in February, and sextupled in March. In this month alone, over 57,000 new accounts were created!
Uglux: decentralize my ass
MJR_: anyone read gox's latest statement?
assbot: [MPEX] [O.USD.C167N] 3 @ 0.32508438 = 0.9753 BTC
ThickAsThieves: The N options just turn into T's at the end of the month, correct?
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 133.10000, Best ask: 133.15000, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 133.15000, 24 hour volume: 119390.78497527, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.00000, 24 hour vwap: 127.53063
MJR_: cool thanks...i was just going to point out the one pertinent fact
MJR_: 5700 new accounts in march a new record
MJR_: current queue at 12600
bitesak: the pertinent fact is slightly in between the lines. The statement doesn't quite instill confidence.
KRS1337: if i have old account but never verified will i float to the top
MJR_: well, i am not talking about gox
MJR_: i don't care, i've never traded there and we all know they suck...let's move on to the next topic
MJR_: which would be increased adoption
MJR_: new accounts opened is a good metric for how much it's growing
MJR_: but I also thought that it was hilarious that they said "All exchanges suffer from lag"...yeah and we measure it in microseconds
gesell: i highly doubt other exchanges would be prepared for such a DDoS. The issue is that people using other exchanges would make the target less obvious
gesell: yeah was also thinking about this but I guess it depends on the nature of the DDoS. If it is similar to that used against spamhaus a few weeks ago... the attacker could still induce panic by attacking the website and read only API to get ticker
gesell: but in general spreading out the interfaces over different hauls could help, while also adding a lot of complexity
gesell: i just aknowledge that
mircea_popescu: i think im getting a little frazzled i've been doing nothing but explaining this for the past 3 hours
gesell: did you read about the DDoS against spamhaus?
mircea_popescu: MJR_> but I also thought that it was hilarious that they said "All exchanges suffer from lag"...yeah and we measure it in microseconds << just had this discussion above, was explaining how six promises 37 microsecond delay
gribble: Error: "asks147" is not a valid command.
gribble: There are currently 11713.428 bitcoins offered at or under 147.0 USD, worth 1658048.18491 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0017 seconds
sturles: MJR_: MtGox reports lag in microseconds as well. I have been logging every minute for a while, and the most common value is 0. On a normal day with just a few standard DDoS attacks, it is above 1 second a few times every hour.
gribble: MtGox lag is 0 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.0 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ... nowhere, really (0 AU).
ChaangNoi: btct.co is fail for me, they being ddosed?
sturles: SIX doesn't provide API access to the entire internet. Can't compare it.
ChaangNoi: yeah it looks like no one can make trades
sturles: mircea_popescu: Doesn't look like it. Seems to be USD only. Much of the trading on MtGox is in other currencies.
ChaangNoi: yeah, i was just trying ot take out money lol
mircea_popescu: so let's see : the part where i say "attacker has found his weak spot, moves on" is pretty accurate.
mircea_popescu: now the part where mtgox comes out with self congratulatory bit remains.
sturles: mircea_popescu: Yes, many trades are mix-trades between e.g. EUR and USD. And most other currency trades are low in volume.
ChaangNoi: lol worked until i wanted to take out money, broke again
sturles: The other currency order books are also stuffed with lots and lots of 0.01235 orders. Which makes many trades for just one coin.
sturles: A mix trade is where an order in one currency was matched with an order in another currency.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75679 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7568 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.756899 = 4.5414 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i still don't grasp why you imagine this'd make a difference.
sturles: Also note that many sites reporting MtGox trades aggregates many small trades into one report. Like this example from #bitcoin-market:
sturles: 13:24 <+amphipod> Apr04 11:24:18 mtgox x11 28.8811 @ 133.42578222 USD
sturles: 11 trades making up a total 28.8811 BTC at the average price of 133.42578222 USD.
mircea_popescu: so find me a space where that bot reports > 100 trades a minute.
sturles: 16 order books to check instad of one. Why would that make 0 difference?
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.00301 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: this is like saying querying 5000 records is not the same thing as querying 5000 records.
mircea_popescu: either you don't at all understand the topic or are trolling me.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.757 = 1.514 BTC [+]
gribble: MtGox lag is 37.58024 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.0753103801907 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ten times between Saturn and Titan (0.0802 AU).
sturles: 10:31 <+amphipod> Apr04 08:29:07 mtgox x149 555.6407 @ 133.52494269 USD
sturles: Several other trades during the same minute.
mircea_popescu: sturles a little more than just the one line if you don't mind
sturles: Join the channel youself if you care so much.
sturles: Why should I quote more? There are more than 100 right there. And I tild you there were trades before and after during the same minute.
sturles: But because #bitcoin-market reports trades from most exchanges, there are several unimpoprtant lines in between.
mircea_popescu: because the aggregated set would logically be from between the previous and the next report
mircea_popescu: and so it's prbably the bot aggregated 149 trades over 5 minutes or something
sturles: No, I told you, there were otehr (aggregated) trades reported in the same minute, before and after.
sturles: I'm not going to paste everything here. Will get dropped for flooding.
sturles: Just join the channel to see for yourself.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 135.90500, Best ask: 136.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.09500, Last trade: 136.00000, 24 hour volume: 115725.71210364, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.00000, 24 hour vwap: 127.07562
gribble: MtGox lag is 26.943103 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.053993676742 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin approximately the distance covered by Voyager 1 in one week (0.0689 AU).
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.00479 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00475 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 20 @ 0.000657 = 0.0131 BTC [-]
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 7779848.36874 based on data since last change | 8359883.55097 based on data for last three days
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4125 @ 0.00069631 = 2.8723 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 13 @ 0.00475 = 0.0618 BTC [+]
jurov: sturles, highest mpex trade spike i have recorded in live.coinbr records is 100 trades/5 seconds on BitBet IPO
jurov: there was no noticeable lag at all, coinbr users ninja-inserted orders in the middle of it
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 88 @ 0.00401 = 0.3529 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.0038 BTC [-]
jurov: and there was certainly 1000 orders arriving/cancelled during that time
jurov: don't tell me mtgox can do this
gribble: MtGox lag is 83.288833 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.166909888784 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ten times between Jupiter and Callisto (0.12567 AU).
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.00315 = 0.315 BTC [-]
MJR_: i just received a business inquiry...the email was in comic sans
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 11 @ 0.00315 = 0.0347 BTC [-]
MJR_: i'm like...is this your first time using a keyboard?
ThickAsThieves: I taught someone that has been using Windows for at least 10 years how to Alt-Tab the other day. "I need to hang around you more often!"
ThickAsThieves: "sorry sir, that's too many bitcoins, you'd break the system"
mircea_popescu: jasmine tea and fresghly baked chocolate muffins. life sux dunnit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4518 @ 0.0006928 = 3.1301 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2924 @ 0.00069168 = 2.0225 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2508 @ 0.00069137 = 1.734 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: i got some nice jasmine tea recently, the fancy kind you put in a metal ball :)
mircea_popescu: there's this little shop just opened, very good quality stuffs.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves don't believe everything you read in the newspapers btw.
mircea_popescu: 20 calls a day for 100mn each ? 2bn a day ? yeah. right.
MJR_: my coworker gets me green tea from taiwan
MJR_: ThickAsThieves: lol...its crazy when you hang out with people who understand computers and then get confronted with "can we just make all of them blue" (select all)
mircea_popescu: mpoe-pr: If this is excellent I bet nobody eats what you cook.
error4733: mp : i guess is 20 calls a day for a total 100M$, i want belive hehe
error4733: still pocket change for big player
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8486 @ 0.00069365 = 5.8863 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: there's not that many funds that have the sort of capital that'd allow them tio place 100mn into exotic weird thing, and also have the rifght profile.
mircea_popescu: none of them are calling unheard of whoever that guy is cause i don't know him
mircea_popescu: basically the media has turned into a sort of massive reddit, buncha people trying to perch themselves into the stratosphere
error4733: usualy i bet a good dinner in this case but roumania is to far if i win
gesell: mircea_popescu: on that last point, i agree
error4733: no big player for 100M$+ before summer
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 137.60001, Best ask: 137.99999, Bid-ask spread: 0.39998, Last trade: 137.99999, 24 hour volume: 115568.41634731, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.00000, 24 hour vwap: 127.02546
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.0031 / 0.00311313 / 0.0035 (389309 shares, 1,211.97 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.00320452 / 0.00439992 (1029516 shares, 3,299.11 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00375305 / 0.006 (1725125 shares, 6,474.50 BTC)
mircea_popescu: so that's about 5mn worth of outstanding s.dice stock. about the same worth of s.mpoe.
mircea_popescu: what's your 100mn guy to do, buy bitcoins and hold them ?
gribble: A market order to buy 25000 bitcoins right now would take 3717531.0041 USD and would take the last price up to 169.9000 USD, resulting in an average price of 148.7012 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0014 seconds
gribble: This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 55695.451 bitcoins, for a total of 14145613197667.5664 USD and take the price to 9999999999998.9004. | Data vintage: 11.2836 seconds
gribble: A market order to buy 50000 bitcoins right now would take 14003105.1552 USD and would take the last price up to 1365.0843 USD, resulting in an average price of 280.0621 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 27.9421 seconds
gribble: This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 55695.451 bitcoins, for a total of 14145613197667.5664 USD and take the price to 9999999999998.9004. | Data vintage: 45.4887 seconds
mircea_popescu: besides, if you have a fund that sorta-fits the profile (exotic/emergent money market)
mircea_popescu: you may risk as much as 1-2mn. maybe 10mn if you're really huge.
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 5 @ 0.38 = 1.9 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.7568 = 2.2704 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.39 = 0.78 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 140.80000, Best ask: 141.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.20000, Last trade: 140.80000, 24 hour volume: 121358.82585477, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.64149
gribble: MtGox lag is 23.416337 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.0469260771656 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ten times between Earth and Moon (0.0257 AU).
mircea_popescu: it boggles me how the heck did sturles manage to reference gox lag the ONE TIME in the past... um... 6 months ?!
assbot: [BTCTC] [SYNERGY] 1 @ 0.01998 BTC [+]
gribble: MtGox lag is 23.913118 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.0479216207274 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin approximately the distance covered by Voyager 1 in one week (0.0689 AU).
pigeons: topace: any word on rebroadcasting those transactions?
gribble: MtGox lag is 0.076872 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.000154050627298 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin to the other side of the Earth, along the surface (0.0001339 AU).
sturles: Not really. You probably don't check it unless you know it is high.
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 138.66502, Best ask: 138.99998, Bid-ask spread: 0.33496, Last trade: 138.66500, 24 hour volume: 122517.04310522, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.75884
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 273 @ 0.0032999 = 0.9009 BTC [-]
damientrog: does anybody know why the S.DICE stock keeps dropping?
damientrog: I know this month won't be much in dividend, but is there something else going on?
ThickAsThieves: i think that many people didnt realize there was no profit yet
damientrog: Erik didn't run off to Belize or something?
ThickAsThieves: once divs and report are issued that will be real test of price
MJR_: report is due by tomorrow
error4733: real value of s.dice didnt increase that much
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8743 @ 0.00069365 = 6.0646 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9157 @ 0.00069803 = 6.3919 BTC [+]
MJR_: but real value of sdice hasn't dropped
MJR_: and its a great company
error4733: i sold.. because i didnt want lose any BTC
damientrog: I don't see how a casino can go that wrong
MJR_: it hasn't really gone wrong
MJR_: over time it will even out
mircea_popescu: <damientrog> yeah isn't the report overdue? << should be today or tomorrow.
MJR_: they had one month where a couple of bit losses hit
ThickAsThieves: in my opinion Sdice is worth no less than when it was trading at .007
error4733: we didnt talk about losse or wining, if btc was at 13$, i dont care about a shitty div
pgp: when it comes to gambling, people still think in fiat terms...
pgp: what is is now - $50MM now?
pgp: how about MPOE? $75MM?
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00067393 / 0.00069724 / 0.00070861 (286436 shares, 199.71 BTC), 7D: 0.00059218 / 0.00066086 / 0.00070861 (2774297 shares, 1,833.43 BTC), 30D: 0.00059218 / 0.00071925 / 0.00077505 (16002312 shares, 11,509.74 BTC)
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 138.15000, Best ask: 138.70000, Bid-ask spread: 0.55000, Last trade: 138.00000, 24 hour volume: 122772.25005439, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.78223
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7567 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7568 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.757 = 6.056 BTC [+]
pgp: interesting contrast - SDICE and MPOE - in terms of USD/BTC elasticity...
error4733: i see btc at 500$ in no time, S.dice just can worth 250m$, so it's a quick calcul, it's better for me to cashout
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00358 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 23 @ 0.00359 = 0.0826 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 55 @ 0.00368 = 0.2024 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00367 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.33999999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 570 @ 0.0037 = 2.109 BTC [+]
pgp: somebosy just wished me happy 404 day...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 570 @ 0.00333 = 1.8981 BTC [+]
pgp: what is this world coming to?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.1 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: you know what is the worst, when you use your Kuerig for how water for your tea, but someone left a coffee k-cup inside
pgp: not in no time = in time
error4733: yes, i'm sure you told me that for 150 back in january (btc@13$)
error4733: but srsly x11 in 3 month, why not x3 before summer ?
pgp: certainly possible, but I wouldn't be cheering for it... then bitcoin will really be at risk of being in a bubble
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 136.53335, Best ask: 136.95000, Bid-ask spread: 0.41665, Last trade: 136.95000, 24 hour volume: 122772.25005439, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.78223
ThickAsThieves: BTC would need to rise $4.7 per day to be $500 by June 20
error4733: "hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000"
bitcoin_raider: I am interested in purchasing shares of companies which issue dividends in BTC. Has anyone else here done this?
MJR_: good time to buy sdice
bitcoin_raider: ThickAsThieves: thanks - I looked at sdice and their offering statement
bitcoin_raider: Are there any businesses which you would invest in that aren't exclusivley based on bitcoin ecosystem?
bitcoin_raider: I own a business that sells physical things for both USD and BTC (we exhibit at defcon) and am considering trying to take it public on one of the BTC exchanges... I like the verified accounting it provides
bitcoin_raider: what would I need to do/prove/etc to make a legit IPO offering. I see most just post their financials in a google doc
pigeons: ThickAsThieves: topace i got my withdrawl
mircea_popescu: yeah, error4733 , it's not a why not as much as a why risk it
MJR_: looking forward to the day that companies are more focused on the product they make than the currency they use to finance their operations
MJR_: it's a little gimmicky right now
MJR_: sorry mircea_popescu, i cut off your arrow
deadweasely: mp, i sent .001 btc fee for 10btc txn, took 9 hours for first confirm... we need a minimum fee schedule that people can choose to use or ignore.
pgp: i thought .0005 was good enough
pgp: it's not like the miners are starving right now...
Bugpowder: I figure .0006 is just enough to beat S.DICE
mircea_popescu: boys, we're getting connectivity problems. it's not the fees
mircea_popescu: if you're in the wrong island and that island doesn't solve blocks you don;'t get in
mircea_popescu: jborkl are you getting anywhere with that network mapping thing ?
jcpham: that's a really good one
jcpham: "But I press on, because my mercurial editor is emailing me, “When are you filing that bitcoin story!??” every five seconds."
jcpham: can't tell if trolling or serious
jcpham: think that's what i like the most
jcpham: he discusses thing to do with bitcoins but makes himself out to be an idiot
MJR_: and he didn't sugarcoat anything
MJR_: good point of view of average guy trying to figure this out
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 133.67978, Best ask: 134.49999, Bid-ask spread: 0.82021, Last trade: 134.49900, 24 hour volume: 128583.01835679, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 128.11103
mircea_popescu: if anyone's still under the misaprehension that mtgox sucking has anything to do with the dead rally...
MJR_: i thought you put the kibosh on that
mircea_popescu: when raly bust people jumped on mtgox, it went to shit like it always does
mircea_popescu: (which isn't to say they're not being hit, they are, but the two are unrelated)
MJR_: they truly were a victim of their own success...they can't tell page views from ddos...
MJR_: by that logic facebook is getting "DDOS'd" every day
mircea_popescu: "we had two issues. one is that we suck, the other is that we got ddosed"
MJR_: funny that they didn't go on bitcointalk to respond
MJR_: would have liked to see mpoe-pr get on that
smickles: i certainly don't have tits like hers
smickles: heh, i'm poor, so i loose to t-bone
mircea_popescu: what did you do, follow Bugpowder's investment advice ?
smickles: are we talking about the same t-bone?
smickles: oh yeah, you ignored the t-bone i was thinking of
smickles: you missed the link factory and irc net
mircea_popescu: what am i telling the girl to tell him ? hm ? HM ?!?!?!?!?!
mircea_popescu: luckily with [\\\] on mpex' side we outinovate tibanne, the irc net providers.
MJR_: smickles: you meant tiberiusiv right?
mircea_popescu: hey, is copumpkin's irl pw:rn actually pebbles ?! what sorcery is this!
smickles: i was going to pay off my car loan with bitcoin, but they'll only take usd, so i have to sell the btc first
smickles: [\\\]: sry, i sold ~20kusd worth at 140
mircea_popescu: but the landlady was only taking currency so we just ate the chocolate and then made out.
[\\\]: made the cnn front page
pgp: bitcoin ATM just seems awkward to me...
smickles: i bet they'd work on college campuses
jcpham: i kinda want to convince a collections attorney to accept btc as payment for credit card collections
jcpham: seems elegantly backwards
jcpham: the world really needs that type of irony
pgp: call me a luddite, but I just don't get it...
[\\\]: mircea_popescu, no, thats illegal
mircea_popescu: [\\\] maybe where you live. over here it's mandatory for underage females.
jcpham: what the fuck is this you people shit
jcpham: Show feelings of superiority; patronize.
jcpham: Do something in a haughty way, as though it is below one's dignity or level of importance.
[\\\]: superiority complex
mircea_popescu: also note that people does not have a singular. but if you prefer i'll refer to you as "you peopl" in the future.
jcpham: i'm pretty sure i've never said "you people"
jcpham: too much time spent with mpoe-pr
MJR_: the atm finally solves liquidity
MJR_: what do you do at a store that doesn't accept credit cards?
MJR_: you run across the street to an atm
MJR_: this is normal and everyday stuff
pgp: bitcoin ATM = jump the shark
MJR_: huh? i need to be able to spend my money...
MJR_: think of bitcoin as a credit card like discover which no one takes
MJR_: so i am going to need to get cash at times
MJR_: but i don't want to HOLD cash
MJR_: i just want to SPEND cash
MJR_: this is so obvious and simple of an idea that i can't even see why there would be a debate
MJR_: like i'm starting a bank, we don't need atm's?
MJR_: its way more convenient to engage in trading online when i want to get a jameson and hang out
MJR_: i also love the week wait for the cash
pgp: they are going to have the same sorts of problems that coinbase has...
MJR_: they won't if they are smart
MJR_: theirs goes both ways
MJR_: so they can replenish cash
MJR_: without getting more cash
MJR_: because you are actually providing a means for me to transfer all my fiat into btc
MJR_: whenever i need to spend, i just withdraw
MJR_: whenever i get paid, i just deposit
MJR_: bitcoin will never take over every transaction
MJR_: let cash do what its good at
MJR_: let bitcoin do what it's good at
smickles: get out of here you sensible fuck!
MJR_: smickles: you are the best
MJR_: the point is that eventually bitcoin should not be a novelty
MJR_: it should just be an everyday fact of life that fades into the background
MJR_: yes...did you read the daily beast?
[\\\]: I've read a bunch of articles
MJR_: no one ever will go through that shit unless they are writing an article
pgp: i hear your arguments, but my gut tells me that it probably won't work as smoothly as one would hope and the logistics will be a problem
[\\\]: just wiat until a government decides it doesn't like it
MJR_: ...its already been done
pgp: what about fees? and conversion rates?
troc: it will take 25 years plus for it to fade
MJR_: that is just algorithms...atm's are already connected to the network by design
MJR_: in fact, mircea_popescu had a great article called "the magic money machine"
smickles: 3% fee, used the 24h weighted avg
MJR_: which basically speaks to this
MJR_: yeah, withdrawal get less dollars, deposit get less bitcoins
smickles: if you really want to get fancy, use 3% minimum, and raise it based on the latest standard deviation
MJR_: but unparralleled convenience
pgp: a bitcoin ATM assumes that there is a market for people who want to constantly transact between fiat and bitcoin - those people will be sensitive to the exchange rate and fees
MJR_: this is my ultimate long term vision of the system of the world...atm's everywhere that run mining nodes in a pool, they connect to an exchange and automatically buy and sell based on the demand...once it scales up, you will have a HUGE stabilizing influence
smickles: i think the atm is for Convenience
MJR_: i want to buy a burger
MJR_: i'm not withdrawing my life savings
MJR_: but i need to get $20 out of a hot wallet
ThickAsThieves: atm is also for people who somehow think itll be easier to buy bitcoin there than on the interweb
MJR_: without doing ACH transfer
pgp: cart before the horse...
MJR_: well...that makes it super easy
MJR_: if a lot of people want to BUY bitcoins...i can buy them on the exchanges automatically
MJR_: while they refill my atm's for me
MJR_: look, no bank ever said "hey, let's get ONE ATM...that should be enough"
pgp: so long as gox is at the center of it - it will be a costly investment for first round funding guys...
MJR_: with that kind of liquidity
MJR_: you will surpass gox
smickles: a bitcoin atm could be the easiest way to send money to a friend, each of you just goes to an atm
MJR_: 403,000 ATMs in the US
MJR_: people pay 4% currently for bitinstant
MJR_: cheaper, easier and faster
MJR_: and most people won't be cashing out their whole savings...they want spending money and to let their wealth remain in bitcoins
pgp: but people who use bitinstant are repeat users in/out... they'd go broke...
MJR_: well...you set the fees where it makes sense
MJR_: at the end of the day...how do banks do it now
MJR_: its obviously possible to run an atm network
MJR_: if bitcoin can't handle something that basic and mundane
pgp: they're asking to be regulated...
MJR_: the thing i'm talking about is the most basic of banking needs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.35579999 BTC [+]
MJR_: in fact...you could even set it up as an ewallet service if you would rather go that way
MJR_: and have accounts with fiat and btc etc
MJR_: but you can accept cash with no friction besides being close to an atm
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.356 = 1.424 BTC [+]
pgp: most people have brokerage accounts - why can't you access those directly through an ATM?
MJR_: as long as bitcoin is a speculative asset
MJR_: when it becomes a currency, it wins easiliy
pgp: etrade tried it - no demand
MJR_: most people don't want to trade
MJR_: they just want honest money, available when they want
MJR_: if it holds its value and they can have it on demand, they are happy
pgp: people are used to managed the fiat equivalent of cold and hot wallets
troc: In effect the ATMs are just there to beat the x*10 min confirmations no ? is there no better way of doing that ?
MJR_: that is the point, you don't need to see btc as an INVESTMENT
pgp: if the need cash, they keep money in there checking account linked to a card..
MJR_: most people who spend money don't think of it as a forex transaction
pgp: otherwise they keep it elsewhere
MJR_: yes, but what about people who don't want to keep their money in USD
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.35799996 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.35799996 = 0.716 BTC [+]
MJR_: you unlock gresham's law through this method
topace_: no sdice dividend announcement yet ?
MJR_: i only have to spend the "bad" currency when i really need to
MJR_: otherwise i have only "good" currency
MJR_: the point is that as long as btc is only good for finance people, you won't get mainstream adoption
pgp: look - I'm not saying that that sort of convenience is bad...
pgp: I just question the timing and business model
MJR_: i never gave a time frame...
MJR_: i just said that giving people easy access to their cash is necessary
MJR_: what is the problem with gox?
MJR_: lag on setting up account
MJR_: lag on withdrawing money
MJR_: lag on executing trades
pgp: in the future, there will be no cash
MJR_: if you are curious about the market...check out localbitcoins
troc: surely a better way to access a local currency would be something like mpesa no ?
MJR_: see what they go for in a more convenient environment
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.4449 BTC [+]
MJR_: anywhere from $145-191
MJR_: thats why bitfloor has higher prices
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.445 BTC [+]
pgp: I just don't see it being a profitable venture for these guys - that's all...
MJR_: i don't see how they can lose money
MJR_: besides being idiots
MJR_: barring theft, they cannot lose money
pgp: massive up front costs
MJR_: you are charging more to buy and giving less out to sell...it is automatically buy low sell high
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.445 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 50 @ 0.445 = 22.25 BTC [+]
MJR_: but bitcoin millionaires don't mind
MJR_: they way it SHOULD progress is like this...you convince a local shop to accept bitcoins and put your atm inside their shop
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 15 @ 0.0028 = 0.042 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.449 = 1.347 BTC [+]
MJR_: that is your omaha beach
MJR_: for the city in question
MJR_: you try to draw all enthusiasts to this shop and try to get other local businesses in this neighborhood to accept it
MJR_: i'm looking at williamsburg
MJR_: you create enough local economy to create critical mass
MJR_: eventually maybe a few landlords accept rent in btc
MJR_: and you form an "ethnic" enclave
MJR_: like chinatown or koreatown or little italy etc
MJR_: 'cept its a "economic" enclave
MJR_: this is how immigrants do it, and have done it for hundreds of years, and its how they survive and make it in a foreign land
MJR_: common culture, and community trust
pgp: obviously, I believe in bitcoin... I just don't see that happening anytime soon... in 10 years...
MJR_: maybe...you'd be surprised how quickly hipsters can adopt new things
MJR_: you wanna go to lunch by the way?
pgp: bitcoin's principal utility is in the NON-local transfer of money
MJR_: hmmm...strong point
MJR_: but i think it's in its store of value
MJR_: BoJ just decided to double its bond buyback rate...
MJR_: and the genesis block did not contain a message saying "money hard to move to other countries"
pgp: fine... store of value... there is no demand for ATM access to your investments...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13770 @ 0.00071031 = 9.781 BTC [+]
MJR_: but if i could have all my wealth in my "investments"...and only liquidate when i had to
MJR_: literally at the point of sale
pgp: if people wanted that, we would have that already
MJR_: if people wanted bitcoin we would have had it already...glad satoshi didn't think that
MJR_: there will be surprises and there will be many things that change
MJR_: ipad is anohter good example, et al
MJR_: i'm just saying...access to your money is important
pgp: not every problem has a bitcoin solution
MJR_: which is why i need a way to move my wealth from bitcoin to cash immediately and at will
MJR_: and then move it back again
MJR_: this volatility won't be foreveer
MJR_: you say ten years...i say 3
MJR_: just a difference in pace at the end of the day
MJR_: mircea_popescu: how do these atm's relate to your "magic money machines"?
MJR_: since the transactions are both ways how is it the reverse?
MJR_: no...they can dispense cash OR bitcoins
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.445 BTC [-]
MJR_: and accept cash or bitcoins
MJR_: if they execute (a HUGE if) it would be great
mircea_popescu: as running the cash ops is the most expensive part of retail banking
MJR_: in the fact that again, the real world has a way of messing software guys plans up
mircea_popescu: and they absolutely can't afford the human resources let alone the capital goods
MJR_: and i think the scarcity of bitoin right now means you will get more cash put in than taken out
MJR_: i mean PoC one atm somewhere by your own house
mircea_popescu: and an armored truck costs as much as an oil tanker, 20k a day
MJR_: they don't send armored trucks for all of them...i mean the small atms...the kind you find in a deli not affiliated with a bank
pgp: idea is TOO EARLY...
pgp: but we'll be able to learn from their mistakes...
MJR_: they don't have armored trucks coming for that...and of course i'd limit it to $20 bills only...in and out
MJR_: not that it counts a lot...but they were interviewed on cnbc, they have preorders in 30 countries already
MJR_: and have the prototype
MJR_: so whether THEY succeed or fail does not speak to whether the idea succeeds or fails IMO
pgp: if gox got a banking license, they could issue debit cards that could be used at every atm in the world - that you be a problem for bitcoin ATM
MJR_: there is his site if you want to look yourself
pgp: i believe there is already a bank in france that lets people maintain BTC balances... yes?
mircea_popescu: i had originally thought there's under the table conventions preventing such a thing, even if not visible above board
MJR_: if they can manage to stem the flow of p0eople sick of doing business there...build a decent matching engine...then they can hope to develop atm technology lol
mircea_popescu: but once the frenchies did get it... it's clearly just op incompetence.
MJR_: yah, i think he is trying to set up the first two atm's within the next two weeks..so we'll see
MJR_: at the end of the day, if you can't even handle data...please for the love of god don't try and tackle hardware or supply chain management (looking at you BFL)
deadweasely: do the atms go both ways? cash for btc and btc for cash?
pgp: if your a bank, you don't need to develop ATM technology
MJR_: i'm going to lunch with darren pgp
pgp: you use the existing network
MJR_: also...last point, if it existed i would be using it today
MJR_: so they'd have one customer
pgp: mjr - wish I could join - have work to do :-(
mircea_popescu: you'll get shot down, specifically for the "other loser" reason
mircea_popescu: not even in russia will you be able to suck the value out of their infrastructure quite so brazenly
mircea_popescu: you can do it until they figure out what you're doing it for.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.4492 = 0.8984 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 133.40000, Best ask: 133.86743, Bid-ask spread: 0.46743, Last trade: 133.86744, 24 hour volume: 124844.76506536, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.81081
mircea_popescu: are you trying to cause a bitcoin-related successful prosecution ?
mircea_popescu: listen, keeping piss in milk containers in your fridge may not be specifically against the rules of your lease
mircea_popescu: but after a few neighbougrs accidentally drink some you will get evicted.
[\\\]: that's why you label the milk containers piss
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7699 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: so far the govt is a coughar in your little corner bar drooling all over you.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.4492 = 1.7968 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: what the hell. law abiding isn't being a whimp, in the vast, overwhelmingly majority of cases.
mircea_popescu: what, drive on the other side of the road just to be different ?
mircea_popescu: but see, the way to efficiently fight absurd regulation is by keeping the obnoxious shit to a minimum.
mircea_popescu: if you're not the weird guy with piss in your fridge you have a much better shot at getting gays accepted in the condo.
mircea_popescu: yeah, right, becauyse a whole 50 dollars in reddit tips and another 100 bux in coffe is going away.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00333 = 3.33 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the us minus a buncha freaks would still be fighting in afghanistan right ?
mircea_popescu: btc is people moving 10k btc over a nod and a handshake, not 10k noobs putting in 50 bux they "earned online" to "get in on the ground floor" on this "new thing"
KRS-1: or currency imo because i dont think the design can handle transactions required of a common currency
mircea_popescu: i doubt this is the case. the uberpressure comes from store of value applications.
mircea_popescu: but incidentally, you probably should package and publish this convo, it's too good to go to ircwaste.
mircea_popescu: so start a btc blog, you're clearly more interested in this than that.
benkay: asciilifeform where do you blog?
mircea_popescu: and when did content creators start caring about readers, what the fuck is this, soviet russia ?
deadweasely: is it possible or advisable to run a node on ec2?
bitesak: i would like to do something like that and have my node online. that wouldn't even cost much at all right?
deadweasely: i started an instance, never even logged in and they stuck me with $15.01 bill this mo.
bitesak: would it be better/easier to run a node on a Raspberry Pi?
Rick___: one of my client just send you guys his key
deadweasely: bitesak: i'd love to, no time, rather use ec2 free instances.
bitesak: asciilifeform, can you post link for the 'review of service'?
jcpham: new idea: double the price
jcpham: cut the hashrate by %60 because
jcpham: mircea_popescu did you tell this guy what to write
jcpham: are you suuuuuure he isn't reading from a script you manipulator, you
mircea_popescu: it's funny tho, there you go asciilifeform, you're now empuppeted.
mircea_popescu: an entire life dedicated to hanging as a sheep pregnant with twin lambs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14600 @ 0.00071356 = 10.418 BTC [+]
jcpham: oh man these new BFL prices are great
jcpham: "gee, you want 60GH/s, here have 25GH/s instead for more money"
jcpham: minirigs are out of stock too
jcpham: in case you wanted one
jcpham: pham> are you suuuuuure he isn't reading from a script you manipulator, you
mircea_popescu: far as i'm concerned the laugh of the year is that after demonstrating a box of fans at that convention, bfl "delivered" to their shill "cumstomer" a board which cools passively.
[\\\]: still lists october ship date
jcpham: I guess they cannot fix the power regulator thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because lazy bums such as yourself haven't taken one apart to prove this.
mircea_popescu: yes. except i only order shit i pay for after it's delivered.
gwillen: I don't think anybody is shocked if Avalon is a HardCopy
gwillen: which is why they got to market before BFL did :-P
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, there was a huge-ish bet on avalon delivering.
mircea_popescu: someone could have bet no, taken one apart, proven it and maybe won ~200 btc
deadweasely: ii wondered that when they offered buybacks...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well... most bitcoiners buy food in stamps.
gwillen: asciilifeform: yes, it's called "structured ASIC"
gwillen: it's higher performance and cheaper than FPGA
gwillen: but lower performance than full ASIC
mircea_popescu: anyway. some chick that's banging jeff bezos must get him to make a proper asic run.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.37 = 0.74 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: fucking dead end, nothing but geeks, no girls want to be there.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.36 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10950 @ 0.00071031 = 7.7779 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 131.10001, Best ask: 132.99693, Bid-ask spread: 1.89692, Last trade: 131.10001, 24 hour volume: 125348.75480664, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.72686
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7699 BTC [+]
assbot: You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 1.80000000 / 1.96201695 / 2.08000000 (118 shares, 231.51799996 BTC), 30D: 1.41000000 / 1.81224245 / 2.08000000 (716 shares, 1297.56559240 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00333 = 3.33 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25522 @ 0.00071031 = 18.1285 BTC [-]
deadweasely: mircea_popescu: total armchair criticism here.... does bitbet have too many bets and not enough advertising (not paid necessarily, but maybe new bets are posted in bitcointalk bitbet thread? just talking out my ass here. i like bitbet, big potential there.
mircea_popescu: the good thing is that people can advertise it to their benefit
mircea_popescu: i imagine it will explode once more people figure it out
deadweasely: should you have bitbet thread posting the new bets so people see them on recent posts on the forum?
deadweasely: i try not to, but i want to spam my ref links now, so i reply to newbs and help them out.
mircea_popescu: prolly will end up having to hiore some ex pron aff manager
deadweasely: well, i'm down to whoring for btc since i can't actually buy in anymore on the borked exchanges
jborkl: mmircea-popescu - you waiting for it to go over $100 million?
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 2 @ 0.1722 = 0.3444 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: jborkl i already claimed 1st to 50mn, angling for 100 now
jborkl: yeah, it did not take long for it to go up 50 million
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 129.00999, Best ask: 129.25000, Bid-ask spread: 0.24001, Last trade: 129.00100, 24 hour volume: 126044.17368292, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.57859
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2553 @ 0.00071356 = 1.8217 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 497 @ 0.00071367 = 0.3547 BTC [+]
gribble: mircea_popescu was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 15 minutes and 14 seconds ago: <mircea_popescu> impossible but lots of fun
deadweasely: according to his webcam i hacked, he's fapping. ;D
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 1.80000000 / 1.96201695 / 2.08000000 (118 shares, 231.51799996 BTC), 30D: 1.41000000 / 1.81224245 / 2.08000000 (716 shares, 1297.56559240 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 803 @ 0.00071367 = 0.5731 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7510 @ 0.00071368 = 5.3597 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13824 @ 0.00071453 = 9.8777 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ok, this guy might have just won the troll competition.
mircea_popescu: so his new gf is a ballerina. she also happens to be polish.
mircea_popescu: he takes her to meet his family (mom, dad, sisters, grama)
MJR_: how many pole dancers does it take to...i give up
MJR_: i thought i had something for this
iz: none, pole dancers screw in a puddle of beer?
MJR_: in the coatcheck room
iz: haha, yes, that's more classy
MJR_: i do drink with my pinky out
MJR_: how are the bars in timisoara (sorry if misspelled)
MJR_: little desperation mixed with single mothers?
MJR_: ah yes, not quite as puritanical
MJR_: and glitter that can't be gotten rid of? lol
MJR_: hahaha, what do they smell like in other places?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.4492 = 0.8984 BTC [+]
bitesak: there have been leaks on the offshore world with millions of records, pics and more
MJR_: i'm just not a huge fan of strip clubs...
bitesak: "A cache of 2.5 million files has cracked open the secrets of more than 120,000 offshore companies and trusts"
MJR_: bitesak: very interesting
MJR_: do you think they will eventually try and tie wealthy people to bitcoin addresses?
bitesak: just saw it on the swiss news tonight, french treasurer of current president exposed as having 2 cayman islands outfits..
MJR_: by the way...i really liked that "ussa"
mircea_popescu: he's moved to an undisclosed offshore location, getting reorganised,
[\\\]: anyone use vircurex?
[\\\]: am I risking my life using it?
[\\\]: dunno who actually runs it
[\\\]: but its been around for a while
[\\\]: I'm talking to you
[\\\]: so clearly I must be
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.38199999 BTC [+]
[\\\]: so even if I knew some guys screen name
[\\\]: that doesn't do anything for me
[\\\]: I know mtux runs gox, that doesn't mean anything
MJR_: did erik say dividends?
MJR_: didn't think there would be any this month
mircea_popescu: well, in the sense of saying what they are. 0 is still a number.
[\\\]: whats going on iwth erik?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7699 BTC [+]
cryptrader: Where's a good place to discuss ltc/nmc/ppc etc?
[\\\]: mircea_popescu, so he got out of the us? was he being harassed?
cryptrader: Any better general crypto currency chat rooms?
mircea_popescu: cryptrader tell you honeslty i don't know. i've never been into the alt chains.
MJR_: i thought that spam was what they traded on btc-e
jcpham: i guess noobs are figuring out all it takes is poeople for an alt-coin to become profitable
cryptrader: Yeah I'm just realizing it myself btc isn't the only and diversifying only makes sense
cryptrader: But with most of them all you can do is buy/sell btc but it sure is fun
jcpham: information costs money
jcpham: mircea_popescu gives it out for free
unbalanced: I thought from his last name he was Dutch or something.
unbalanced: I blame Austin Powers... can't trust the Dutch.
unbalanced: (I could also claim points for not assuming everyone was American)
jurov: [\\\] im using vircurex, didn't eat me so far
jurov: nor did it eat some ltcs i bought year ago
unbalanced: hey jurov, while I'm on a roll with my ignorance, what does the "br" in coinbr mean or stand for?
jurov: deadweasely whore, you around?
jurov: was meant to stand for broker
jurov: but feel free to invent sth
jurov: all btc services have sexually colored malapropism
jurov: thus i feel excluded with coinbr
MJR_: so...pay rent in bitcoin directly to property management company...
[\\\]: MJR_: another bitpay vendor.. big deal.
MJR_: the owner of the company invested in bitcoins
[\\\]: Let's see someone accept actual coins and use them to pay for their employes
[\\\]: those palces are special
MJR_: when asked about volatility he said "bitcoin is more valuable than dollars, i don't care about volatility"
MJR_: i hope they don't get hacked...
MJR_: that is a positive sign, that he is willing to provide rent in bitcoin...the next step is a large employer to offer to pay in bitcoin
[\\\]: they're using coinbase
[\\\]: you realise thats just like bitpay?
[\\\]: when you check out, it pops up
[\\\]: fill in a fake amount and address, then click bitcoin
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.39 = 1.17 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2253 @ 0.00333 = 7.5025 BTC [+]
MJR_: can't you pay with a regular bitcoin addresss
MJR_: or a coinbase account
MJR_: even if they manage the web interface the owner said he owns and wants bitcoins
MJR_: so it is not simply a cash to btc translator but rather a merchant looking to actively acquire bitcoin in exchange for services
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 132.00000, Best ask: 132.67999, Bid-ask spread: 0.67999, Last trade: 132.00000, 24 hour volume: 124042.97259498, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.34869
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.39 = 0.78 BTC [+]
MJR_: aha...i just found the best article talking about why bitcoin will not be negatively affected by deflation
grubles: [\\\], ive used vircurex for about a month or so
grubles: everythings been smooth as warm butter
[\\\]: they're struggling today
kakobrekla: its finally getting some traction among big bwanas now thats above 100
[\\\]: bad gateway messages
[\\\]: you know that thing we talked about yesterday?
MJR_: since bitcoin is rarely used as a unit of account, people don't pay rent denominated in bitcoin, or have salaries denominated in bitcoin
MJR_: it can float against the dollar but will probably be able to buy more in dollars in the future
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 132.39801, Best ask: 132.48016, Bid-ask spread: 0.08215, Last trade: 132.39800, 24 hour volume: 122979.85614229, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.31262
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4976 @ 0.00071453 = 3.5555 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.0007146 = 9.0754 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2405 @ 0.00071514 = 1.7199 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.435 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.435 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 98 @ 0.00333333 = 0.3267 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7699 BTC [+]
jborkl: gox is starting to lag again
deadweasely: mircea_popescu: nope on the $200 april bbet?
deadweasely: i guess i can hedge my calls with a no bet
deadweasely: well, i bought c188Ts at .087.... so 205 to break even.
deadweasely: i realize now... learning requires mistakes. so by the end of all this i'll be broke but rich in wisdom. it's a fair trade.
deadweasely: looks like i was about $100 of the strike i should have bought, but the others were so expensive already on coinbr...
mod6: who's to say that every stoner wont pile in on 4/20 and send the price over 205 though?
mircea_popescu: back when btc was 5ish it was hella cheap way to learn finance
deadweasely: mod6, that's a great point, college stoners buying btc.
mod6: im just sayin... its a speculative bet...
Lyspooner: what do you say about litecoin, friends?
mod6: (12:49) < mircea_popescu> back when btc was 5ish it was hella cheap way to learn finance << i certainly learned A LOT
jurov: deadweasely, ask namworld about it
Lyspooner: mircea_popescu: i own zero LTC, but what is different about me saying "the people who say BTC is stupid are stupid" and someone calling me stupid for saying LTC is stupid
mircea_popescu: "I bet. I won but have undone me obviously missed. They were fools and ridiculous to me have closed. Fuck them and their site of betting."
mircea_popescu: Lyspooner bear with me i'm tired and that was too complex
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 132.00000, Best ask: 132.20000, Bid-ask spread: 0.20000, Last trade: 132.20000, 24 hour volume: 117001.33142800, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.72542
mod6: deadweasely: i guess too though, you have to figure in theta decay
mod6: since 4/20 is some days off yet
Lyspooner: if LTC pulls itself up by its bootstraps as BTC did, why dismiss it?
deadweasely: mod6 you lost me on theta decay, i'm looking it up now. ok, time premium stuff.
mircea_popescu: you don;'t know who the second guy to discover newton's law is.
mod6: yeah, you get time decay on options up until opex
mircea_popescu: all the tards who want to play bitcoin gem / bitcoin gold bar / ultimate satoshi / etc will have to go somewhere.
Lyspooner: the price of a bitcoin should equal the price of a litecoin when normalized for the size of the total money supply to exist
Lyspooner: with maybe some premium assigned to the security of the hashing algorithms
mod6: well looks like they have something there... i acutally just read up on "the greeks" (options greeks) at like wikipedia (lol)
mircea_popescu: this is like saying that the per capita income of your random nigger should equal the per capita income of your random jew.
mod6: and I did watch a bunch of the video's on options trading at CBOE.com
mod6: (go figure, use wall-street to learn how to trade mpex.)
Lyspooner: that's like your third metaphor that i don't find sufficient
mircea_popescu: what, is ltc going to do a million coin march on the internet ?
Lyspooner: arguments against litecoin now remind me of arguments against bitcoin three years ago.... no one should use it because no one will use it
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: you should use nigga instead of nigger, more proper
mircea_popescu: poor people like it because it feels closer to what they want in an asset.
mircea_popescu: just like restaurants run by cooks or sitcoms run by actors fail.
bgupta: well like 90% of new businesses that have nothing to do with btc fail.. Just because it's btc related shouldn't make that change.
Lyspooner: BTC money supply is actually BTC + LTC money supply
mircea_popescu: Lyspooner no argument there, but you're framing the issue.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: but what busineses are succeeding? even bitinstant and blockchain.info are failures based on most standards
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.32000001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 29 @ 0.32000001 = 9.28 BTC [-]
TomServo: thestringpuller: how do you consider gox a failure?
bgupta: asicminer argueably, same with avalon. but they'll both need to pivot to satay an ongonig concern. mpex seems to be doing well, mtgox despite issues, is here to stay. sdice, excluding it's potential as an investment is a survivor. some of these info sites seem to be fine.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 20 @ 0.33 = 6.6 BTC [+]
mod6: magic the gathering online exchange ftw!
TomServo: heh, if not that - what then?!
bgupta: mircea_popescu: Just because they are totally broken, and constantly going down, you can not discount userbase enthusiasm, usage history, and first mover advantage.
thestringpuller: bgupta: you can only trip over yourself so long until yoi fall into an abyss
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 60 @ 0.34000001 = 20.4 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: bgupta why are you arguing to me ? thestringpuller was saying.
jurov: i endorse b-c too. now only if they get it online :/
TomServo: obviously gox is far from ideal - but if they're goal is to provide a BTC exchange platform, I'd say so far they've been successful in that.
Lyspooner: ok, mircea_popescu, this will be my parting thought on LTC. You might like it...
jurov: oh and what happened to usagi's mpex asset? can you now disclose for lulz?
bgupta: Twitter is a prime example of a site that started completely brokensuffered massive growing pains (and outages), and then went on to ma instream success.
iz: did you actually play magic? remember the chaos orb?
Scrat: TomServo: that's like saying that I'm successful human being because I'm breathing
Lyspooner: The Bitcoin Foundation should use all its funds and destroy LTC the way people destroyed IOCoin and IXCoin
bgupta: They basically had to bring in a whole new tech team and throw out most of what they had.
mircea_popescu: bgupta twitter still is not a business/does not have a model.
Lyspooner: that's not nonsense, that's awesome and i'm awesome
Scrat: gox fails in every way possible, they had months to fix this shit, they didnt. EOD
jurov: mpex.co/?mpsic=S.NYAN
TomServo: Yet it's still possible to sell/buy BTC there so... I'm not sure I agree.
cryptrader: Lyspooner there is no 'bitcoin foundation' and how would that benefit anyone?
Lyspooner: there is a bitcoin foundation and it doesn't benefit anyone
Lyspooner: well, it benefits the people that draw a salary from it
mircea_popescu: Lyspooner actually it's vessenes' little scam to try and float a little coin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 43 @ 0.435 = 18.705 BTC [-]
cryptrader: And gox just recently had to handle 10x their usual volume and increased ddos attacks of course they're struggling
TomServo: mircea_popescu: What is/are NAT.ROUTERS?
Scrat: mircea_popescu: lol
cryptrader: That said I'm all for a decentralized exchange or at least a few more good options.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4234 @ 0.00070232 = 2.9736 BTC [-]
jurov: sry for confusion. i misread "but otherwise usagi history is horrible."
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7698 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00381 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 25 @ 0.0038 = 0.095 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 85 @ 0.0036 = 0.306 BTC [-]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 134.80000, Best ask: 134.88800, Bid-ask spread: 0.08800, Last trade: 134.88000, 24 hour volume: 117768.41535527, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.86503